Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Hardlined]

Well I wouldn't expect a full refund. Just a refund for what was released. You still have the plat, badge, shirts/headbands, and other stuff that came with it. I have no idea how they would split the pricing for each item, but if that isn't a possible solution then the only thing to do is try your best to ignore any thread related to this one

Edited June 7, 2014 by Hardlined

[Azawarau]

Refunds are not the answer. Would I as a founder feel satisfied that if DE wanted to re-release them, that I would get my money back? Sure, that's fair to me. But people seem to be forgetting something kind of important. DE kind of needs and/or needed that money. It's kind of why founders was a thing in the first place. They needed money to develop the game - they got it- now we're here.

 

Can you seriously just imagine for a moment how much revenue that actually is that the founders program generated? Go onto the starchart and hover over a node. Any node. Then count how many names roll by on the solar landmark indicator. Just to give you an example, there are 34 names on Terminus. Each of those people is a GM, which means they paid $250 to DE. That node alone represents $8,500. Multiply that by every node in the start chart for a rough estimate of the GM revenue pool. Yeah. And that is Grand Masters only, which represent the smallest population of Founder's participants.

 

The amount of money that is I find hard to wrap my own head around - to refund even just a fourth of it could easily bankrupt them.

The amount they made after from various player purchases of platinum is significantly higher but thats entirely ignored

[MerelyARumor]

You guys are clearly forgetting that the amount of people that would rebuy the founders exclusives could heavily outfavor the cost of refunding

 

 

Solution 1 : refund founders, re-release- get tons of profit 

 

 

Solution 2 : take exclusive everything off mastery charts and codex   , Give an item that maxes mastery rank of 1 weapon for every exclusive item taken off the menu (the legendary core of weapon ranking)   

 

solution 3 : Allow for founder exlusives to become tradeable, Giving founders the choice of what they wish to do with there OWN items that THEY paid for and shouldnt give a crap about what the other founders say about it(if you dont want to trade,dont trade,it doesnt get downgraded in rarity if the EXACT same amount of people have it, it might even become more rare because some people might go hunt them to npc them...... if they want to get rid of there items which they deem virtually useless for insane plat profit, let them? also fixing peoples chances of getting mastery rank done and keeping profile icons exclusive to represent founders still  (also dont give me this bull@#%$ about founders spirit, last time i checked founders were threatening to sue DE for not shooting themselves in the foot...founders spirit is a joke..)

 

solution 4: release dual versions of founders exclusives.... i dont really see how this will fix anything tbh, i also dont understand how owning a specific item automatically gives you the right to other versions of the item, if thats the case, the guy who said lato skana and excalibur should be founders only as well,pretty accurate...seeing as founders CLEARLY just ''own the rights'' to all of those things because they paid money at a specified time, they are more clearly more special than people who pay big money for prime access or buy tons of plat and should be treated as such, because if you dont feed your sheep they will stab you in the back and try to ruin your game , in fact, they should have the rights to ALL THE PRIMES because they paid that 1 time, they automatically own all the rights to all the bling in the game, and should just own everything themselves and bathe in there prime everything because they ''earned it'' , the game was made for them,they should own the entire game,everyone elses money is just to keep the founders game running for the founders everyone /sarcasm

 

 

solution 5: DE does nothing, DE gets 5-10 of these posts a day, DE loses potential customers consistently for the rest of there game making career, DE Shoots themself in the foot to please there minority in there game, because ''founders spirit'' 

 

 

 

 

This Screwdriver is useless, But i paid for it when it came out so you arent allowed to use power drills

 

This shoe doesnt fit, but you cant have a pair...founders spiiiiriiiit *rings a jingle bell*

 

this chopstick is useless...

 

 

 

edit: just read an interesting idea on a different founders blah blah blah thread

 

 

solution 6 - make it possible to obtain 24 hour expiration  excalibur prime, skana prime and lato prime to rank for mastery

Edited June 8, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Ignaesia]

It's never going to happen and you're never going to get it

[Azawarau]

It's never going to happen and you're never going to get it

 

Do you mean the founders items or the OPs suggested solution?

[Mcl_Blue]

With all due respect, your proposed solution would solve absolutely nothing.

[RoboDoge]

With all due respect, your proposed solution would solve absolutely nothing.

Definitely.

 

 

As those items could not be locked away from Founders and they would still have advantage in Mastery points. And people would complain about this: "Now that DE is released Aklato prime and Dual Skana Prime, they must give us Lato Prime and Skana Prime. Because there is no point in them being exclusive anymore".

 

 

This kind of threads should be immediately locked, and there should be sticky thread from DE with clear statement about Founder Items ( stats, looks or relation vise ). This thread is bound to be locked by someone from DE with some statement like this:

 

 

"We already stated on numerous occasions that Founders or any items that might have Founders items as parts, wont be released."

Edited June 8, 2014 by RoboDoge

[DJ_Redwire]

The amount they made after from various player purchases of platinum is significantly higher but thats entirely ignored

 

You're right, it probably is. But where is all that money I wonder? Sitting in a big DE bank account? No, it's in the paychecks of their employees, in the equipment they've invested into, in the utilities bills, in the mortgage on their office. In other words, no longer with the company. Companies don't survive by sitting on piles of money. They needed it for a specific purpose - then they in turn spent it. 

[Azawarau]

You're right, it probably is. But where is all that money I wonder? Sitting in a big DE bank account? No, it's in the paychecks of their employees, in the equipment they've invested into, in the utilities bills, in the mortgage on their office. In other words, no longer with the company. Companies don't survive by sitting on piles of money. They needed it for a specific purpose - then they in turn spent it. 

Great so youre saying people that spent after the founders helped DE just as much as the founders did

 

Im glad we agree

[Alyian]

Just revamp back to where you could buy multiples of the same weapons...then you will not have the mastery argument and us founders get to keep our exclusive items.

 

-edit- to prevent getting off topic of op I created another thread for this discussion https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/242818-mastery-rank-issues-with-founders-weapons-suggestion/

Edited June 8, 2014 by Sheogorwrath

[Bayle_Fire]

Why is this thread still going? You guys know that the DE doesn't want our money in trade for founder items >_>

[5Billion]

Refunds are not the answer. Would I as a founder feel satisfied that if DE wanted to re-release them, that I would get my money back? Sure, that's fair to me. But people seem to be forgetting something kind of important. DE kind of needs and/or needed that money. It's kind of why founders was a thing in the first place. They needed money to develop the game - they got it- now we're here.

 

Can you seriously just imagine for a moment how much revenue that actually is that the founders program generated? Go onto the starchart and hover over a node. Any node. Then count how many names roll by on the solar landmark indicator. Just to give you an example, there are 34 names on Terminus. Each of those people is a GM, which means they paid $250 to DE. That node alone represents $8,500. Multiply that by every node in the start chart for a rough estimate of the GM revenue pool. Yeah. And that is Grand Masters only, which represent the smallest population of Founder's participants.

 

The amount of money that is I find hard to wrap my own head around - to refund even just a fourth of it could easily bankrupt them.

Yea this guy makes a strong point, according to the wiki page for Founders, http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Founders, Grand Masters alone are worth $388,000 in revenue for DE, no way in hell anyone would be dumb enough to refund that just so everyone else can get founders weapons.. although I want the weapons for the sake of mastery and collecting them there is another solution.... which someone may come up with in the near future.

[DarthRevan84]

I've only seen an Excalibur Prime once. Why don't founders play him more often?

I play him quite often actually, I just tend to run around with the proto skin on cuz i love how it looks.

[DJ_Redwire]

Great so youre saying people that spent after the founders helped DE just as much as the founders did

 

Im glad we agree

 

Actually you're twisting my words - so no we don't agree. Everyday plat revenue goes to keep the lights on and business running, Founders was so that they could have a business at all. As much as you would probably like to view those two scenarios as the same, they aren't. It's the difference between whats is Equal and what is Equitable. 

[dragonkingdx]

Actually you're twisting my words - so no we don't agree. Everyday plat revenue goes to keep the lights on and business running, Founders was so that they could have a business at all. As much as you would probably like to view those two scenarios as the same, they aren't. It's the difference between whats is Equal and what is Equitable. 

o.o but if there is no income there is no money to keep it going therefore ending the business. Founders helped with the startup and got the game off of the ground. however thats small compared to the income that they get now, which keeps the game going. I believe azawarau was saying (or something like that IDK got lost a bit) both had a part so both are equal in some sense. As both kept the game running and continuing the expansion of the game. As with only the founders money it would not have kept the game open for long.

 

Then again this sorta thing sorta strays from the topic at hand

Edited June 8, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[DJ_Redwire]

o.o but if there is no income there is no money to keep it going therefore ending the business. Founders helped with the startup and got the game off of the ground. however thats small compared to the income that they get now, which keeps the game going. I believe azawarau was saying (or something like that IDK got lost a bit) both had a part so both are equal in some sense. As both kept the game running and continuing the expansion of the game. As with only the founders money it would not have kept the game open for long.

 

You're still missing the point. Yes, buying things like Prime Access and platinum and Founders all support the game in some way. The difference is is that us founders invested a significant amount of money into the game BEFORE the game was in a state at which platinum sales could sustain it. Founders was "Ok, here is my money. I don't know if this project you're working on is going to be successful or not, and I don't know if I'm going to get anything out of my investment besides what you're giving me, but here's my money anyway because I see potential." Whereas buying platinum is "I enjoy the game as it sits, so I'm going to buy this product to both support the game and enhance my own experience." Understand yet?

[dragonkingdx]

You're still missing the point. Yes, buying things like Prime Access and platinum and Founders all support the game in some way. The difference is is that us founders invested a significant amount of money into the game BEFORE the game was in a state at which platinum sales could sustain it. Founders was "Ok, here is my money. I don't know if this project you're working on is going to be successful or not, and I don't know if I'm going to get anything out of my investment besides what you're giving me, but here's my money anyway because I see potential." Whereas buying platinum is "I enjoy the game as it sits, so I'm going to buy this product to both support the game and enhance my own experience." Understand yet?

The same can be said of any game. No game released is a guaranteed success just because you spent money before it got off the ground doesn't mean it never would have if you didn't. Nor did it mean you did more than anyone who paid after. Any game released takes a gamble for its success, it could be unpopular/lacking. Your money helped but it did not mean much more than anyone elses cash. (you may want to stick whatever mentality on it but thats a matter of preference)

 

You want to make it look like you took a bigger leap of faith than jumping off of a cliff. In the end everyone takes a gamble with the cash they spend on any game. What if they don't like it after playing it for a while and they paid before just cuz they wanted something? what if it closes down soon after because of some unforeseen problem? What if they get crappy service in return? what if you get a bug and they cant fix it and cant compensate you to the extent you find appropriate? These are all sorts of risks when buying stuff in a game, both before and after. Just because you paid before it became heavily popular does not mean more than people who continue to pay today. As it still would be popular if it was a good game.

 

In the end you all paid to support the game, founders were part of the first but they aren't on a higher level (or take any bigger gamble) because they did. They are just the same as every other player, what you got for being the first set was some exclusive goodies. In the end your all giving the game money and support, who did it first hardly makes any difference. Founders paid because they liked the game as did everyone else there is no change or difference in that. If they didn't someone else would have. Its just how business works, nothing is certain and everything is a gamble.

 

But again all of this is beyond the point of the thread. Your free to disagree on how I see it I wont continue further (on this subject) as it would just derail the thread further.

Edited June 8, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[CrazyOne]

Exclusivity. That's essentially all people care about. Do I think this would be betraying the Founders of Warframe? No, I honestly don't. On the other hand I certainly get why they'd be upset. Why did I pay over $300 for this founders package just so they can re-skin my weapon in dual form in the future?

 

Naturally, this is a very touchy subject. You know what though? I think I can live without the Lato and Skana prime... But I do WANT (Keyword here: WANT) that Cal prime. I know it'll never happen. So I'll deck out a regular Cal in Immortal skin, Whatever platinum color pallete I so please, Syandana (Prime, I might add.), Helmet, and Cosmetic armor... Just because I can.

That all may add up to one cluttered Cal, I know. xD

[Doom_Bunny]

or any items that might have Founders items as parts, wont be released."

That is new, I think you are twisting DE's words there.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Postal_pat

[The_Lunatic_]

In the end you all paid to support the game, founders were part of the first but they aren't on a higher level (or take any bigger gamble) because they did. They are just the same as every other player, what you got for being the first set was some exclusive goodies. In the end your all giving the game money and support, who did it first hardly makes any difference. Founders paid because they liked the game as did everyone else there is no change or difference in that. If they didn't someone else would have. Its just how business works, nothing is certain and everything is a gamble.

 

Actually, if you read the description of the Design Council, you'll see we quite literally are regarded as more important and more worth listening to than people whom didn't support the game in the early days.

[fatpig84]

People should not be using Mastery as a reason imo for getting Founder/Event weapons and Excal Prime.

DE has plans to release enough content to hit rank 30.

 

Even if you have 0 event, CBT or Founder equipment.You will still get there, just 6 to 8 months later.

Edited June 8, 2014 by fatpig84

[DJ_Redwire]

People should not be using Mastery as a reason imo for getting Founder/Event weapons and Excal Prime.

DE has plans to release enough content to hit rank 30.

 

Even if you have 0 event, CBT or Founder equipment.You will still get there, just 6 to 8 months later.

 

And that's assuming DE doesn't make more things like codex scans and achievement completions and other areas of the game count for mastery like they did for starchart nodes. If they did more things like that, people would have more than enough mastery overnight.

[Verre]

After reading through every post, 
I agree with two solutions.

 

1. Make exclusives tradeable. 

Yeah, it's "exclusive" but it still gives the Founder a choice of whether they want to keep that weapon or not.

The weapons will circulate, but I'm guessing it would only go to the ones who really are desperate for it and pays a good amount of plat. 

(Or a good friend)

 

2. Remove it from the codex. (Let the founders keep the exp they gained from their exclusives) 

We're always getting new weapons and frames to rank anyway, so mastery exp won't be a huge problem. 

These exclusive weapons will be nothing but a myth to the Tenno~ 

 

 

 

 

Also: 

 

Dual literally means 2. You are literally asking for 2 of each weapon, yes.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Verre

[Tostov]

I'm totally okay with this, as long as the bloody dual/ak- variants are worth using. We don't need more useless primes.

[Dalu__Ka]

Look, I just want the Founder stuff re-released, my refund for what are now free items, and then through that maybe some buffs to the lato prime and skana prime, and some more detail put into Excalibur Prime and Frost Prime. That's what I want.

Also never going to happen.