Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Kartumterek]

good post, and I should request people go read the first post I made, where in that did I give the specific request to make these akimbo/dual weapons with the same model as the founders gear? no where. while it would make sense, that's completely unnecessary , and that is most likely the basis of 90% of the counter argument, the founders believe they have the right to the model, and all things associated with said model, while this is somewhat true, you must remember that not a single one of you own a portion of the game, nor have any dominance over DE, there fore they could do literally what ever they want, if they wanna make the lato P's model into the lower half of captain vor's model that craps out Excalibur heads, they can. they only thing I ever would have wanted from the founders pack is the Excalibur prime, but even if I had him, I would have the proto skin on and wouldn't even see it, so I use my NORMAL Excalibur to run around with, why? cause I got over it. the entire point of this thread was to appease the collectors and the mastery junkies by giving a bonus chunk and the pretty little lato and skana p models. the reaction of most of the people on this thread, while mildly civil, is still much out of hand, there is too many side discussions, I myself am guilty of this, but none the less, for a large portion of people who have spent the money on the founders package, you would think they would be more mature than "no shut up and go cry in the corner" and when I say this I do not mean all the founders as there are quite a few exceptional members of the community with the founders status, you know who you are.

 

but to finish off this, because it is late and I must be heading to bed soon, lets leave all of our "I'm a founder what I say goes" and "I want this waaaaaaaaaa" at the door, and lets have a civil debate, with constructive comments on how such items could be implemented.

 

and an edit: please leave [DE]Drew out of this, I'm not sure if he wanted any association with this thread or not, so again, leave him out of it, thanks.

Can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that the answer is no. The compromise that exists is no compromise and you guys can't accept it because its not an answer that you like.

Let it go

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that the answer is no. The compromise that exists is no compromise and you guys can't accept it because its not an answer that you like.

Let it go

If you think that will happen, then why are you still here?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Mikovsky

[Mesyra]

Can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that the answer is no. The compromise that exists is no compromise and you guys can't accept it because its not an answer that you like.

Let it go

are you the deciding voice for DE? I did not know that, please excuse me for my arrogance.

 

in all actuality, these weapons are fair game. there is nothing in the founders agreement about these akimbo weapons, why dont you read up on it again and show everyone where it says that the akimbo weapons that do not exist yet, belong to the founders, and come back when you find it.

[Kartumterek]

Because this is a public post on a public forum. Is there a problem?

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Because this is a public post on a public forum. Is there a problem?

It's not, but you're not really getting anywhere by stating this and that won't happen.

[OniDax]

are you the deciding voice for DE? I did not know that, please excuse me for my arrogance.

 

in all actuality, these weapons are fair game. there is nothing in the founders agreement about these akimbo weapons, why dont you read up on it again and show everyone where it says that the akimbo weapons that do not exist yet, belong to the founders, and come back when you find it.

 

Well why not any akimbo weapon? Why Aklato Prime? Why Dual Skanas Prime? Why not Afuris Prime or Nikana Prime? If you really don't care about the design, why must it be Aklato Prime and Dual Skanas Prime? Again, you're looking for a way to get around the exclusivity issue and you're not fooling anyone.

[Aggh]

Well why not any akimbo weapon? Why Aklato Prime? Why Dual Skanas Prime? Why not Afuris Prime or Nikana Prime? If you really don't care about the design, why must it be Aklato Prime and Dual Skanas Prime? Again, you're looking for a way to get around the exclusivity issue and you're not fooling anyone.

There's nothing saying those weapons can't be released too.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[cleverboots]

good post, and I should request people go read the first post I made, where in that did I give the specific request to make these akimbo/dual weapons with the same model as the founders gear? no where. 

Okay, sorry, though a lack of stating it may not be the same as stating against it, though fair enough either way.

 

I actually after thinking about it, quite like the concept of a differently designed shiny lato prime/aklato that is at least relatively different from the exclusives in details, same with skana prime/akskana, that would be rather interesting.

 

That may actually make a good amount of people at least a bit happier, maybe annoy a few founders, some unreasonable people, but that would probably still be less people complaining for a bit, who am I kidding it is the internet after all, that will never stop.

 

But I digress, It is probably best to step back from this, if DE gets any decent ideas from it hopefully things go well for them. While I would probably be a bit annoyed if they just copied the design lazily and given it away for free, it isn't my call. If they choose to take a slightly scummy loophole to try to get away from complainers that is their right, they own the game after all.

 

After all I and a fair number of founders, bought it to support and help build a game that had good potential. (and just a bit on my end to get a decent bloody price on platinum) Though, there are plenty questionable rng based things that annoy me more than something this technically petty argument that lets be honest, will forever haunt DE forums.

 

(just between everyone and me, council chat has to be the best perk from founders, reasonable discussion among many usually mature people who help eachother freely, if new players want to be jealous of anything that should be it.)

[Mesyra]

Well why not any akimbo weapon? Why Aklato Prime? Why Dual Skanas Prime? Why not Afuris Prime or Nikana Prime? If you really don't care about the design, why must it be Aklato Prime and Dual Skanas Prime? Again, you're looking for a way to get around the exclusivity issue and you're not fooling anyone.

actually sir, if you read the original post, you will see my standing on the issue, I do not care for any of these weapons, I never have, I never will.

 

I have my loadout that I use, and that I cherish, I do not wish to bring change to it, especially after the multitude of comments saying how terrible the weapons them selves are. I do not farm the void for parts, hours on end, and I most certainly wouldnt do it for garbage weaponry. please do not assign a motive to me, as you will always be incorrect. there has not been a single attempt to fool anyone in the entire 31 pages of this thread. I even go so far as to inform everyone that this is indeed a loop hole to the founders agreement.

[Ionus]

Because you tried to claim that there was no dual variant that could be bought that didn't have a single variant.  But when that was pointed out to be not true, all of the sudden it matters whether there was a single variant or not.

 

Attacking the construction of an argument rather than trying to refute the argument itself is a great way of showing that you know you can't refute it.  And yes, if they're selling double cheesburgers you can buy a double cheesburger if they don't sell a single.  Not selling singles doesn't mean they don't have the requisite materials, it just means they've only decided to sell double cheesburgers.

 

Why does it need to fix anything?  New content doesn't have to fix things, new content is new content.

 

I said there was no dual variant with an unobtainable single variant that existed. Stop trying to twist my posts to your advantage.

 

I'm still very much focusing on the actual argument, as shown by your response to it. But I had to point out your faulty reasoning because this difference in logic is the cause of the argument in the first place. No food establishment will sell a double and refuse a customer a single. The analogy you used supported my argument more than your own, so I felt I should point it out.

 

The entire point of this thread was to "fix" the founder item quarreling, and I'm here to hold the opinion that it won't.

[Kartumterek]

Wtb a lock for this already, otherwise the post farming will escalate to critical levels

[OniDax]

Well at least you're honest about wanting to exploit a potential loophole to the Founders agreement. I've already stated what I want concerning founders gear and aklato prime/dual skanas prime. I want some kind of a refund, preferably monetary, but I'd like to be able to put that refund towards other things like upcoming prime access packs or something of that sort. That's why I want something more than just a platinum refund. But I'd prefer that all this gear get released. The refund is there so that Founders don't get shafted. And yes, I think that adding dual weapons with their designs is a loophole, because I think the designs are as much the weapons as the items themselves. It is a part of the identity of the weapon. And I'm not going to change my opinion/stance on this.

[Doom_Bunny]

 

you would think they would be more mature than "no shut up and go cry in the corner" and when I say this I do not mean all the founders as there are quite a few exceptional members of the community with the founders status, you know who you are.

 

but to finish off this, because it is late and I must be heading to bed soon, lets leave all of our "I'm a founder what I say goes" and "I want this waaaaaaaaaa" at the door, and lets have a civil debate, with constructive comments on how such items could be implemented.

 

Can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that the answer is no. The compromise that exists is no compromise and you guys can't accept it because its not an answer that you like.

Let it go

You made your self an example of his post.

 

The problem is assuming we should have to compromise on this.  Having to come to a compromise infers that they have an entitlement regarding these weapons.  DE needs to put their foot down for once otherwise there will continue to be squabbles over exclusive content.  What if they decided to make Aklato vandal?  It's the same pinciple, Lato Vandal was promised to be exclusive and never to be released again.  But Aklato vandal would be a separate weapon so they are under obligations regarding its hypothetical release.

They belive so hard that they are entitled so they won't budge. We on the other hand know what they are and are not entitled to so we won't stop until they stop trying to lay claim to items they did not buy. Digital Extremes on the other hand appears to be ignoring the subject.

 

So with no side budging we do need a compromise. A word from DE about the founders purchase agreement showing the actual agreement and some sort of release that pleases our side.

 

[Aggh]

Well at least you're honest about wanting to exploit a potential loophole to the Founders agreement. I've already stated what I want concerning founders gear and aklato prime/dual skanas prime. I want some kind of a refund, preferably monetary, but I'd like to be able to put that refund towards other things like upcoming prime access packs or something of that sort. That's why I want something more than just a platinum refund. But I'd prefer that all this gear get released. The refund is there so that Founders don't get shafted. And yes, I think that adding dual weapons with their designs is a loophole, because I think the designs are as much the weapons as the items themselves. It is a part of the identity of the weapon. And I'm not going to change my opinion/stance on this.

You're still assuming they'd owe you anything for releasing these weapons when you've already gotten what you paid for.

 

 

I said there was no dual variant with an unobtainable single variant that existed. Stop trying to twist my posts to your advantage.

 

I'm still very much focusing on the actual argument, as shown by your response to it. But I had to point out your faulty reasoning because this difference in logic is the cause of the argument in the first place. No food establishment will sell a double and refuse a customer a single. The analogy you used supported my argument more than your own, so I felt I should point it out.

 

The entire point of this thread was to "fix" the founder item quarreling, and I'm here to hold the opinion that it won't.

 

No, you edited after you realized it was a terrible line of reasoning.

 

Too bad for you two people had already quoted the original post.

 

No, you're focusing on cheeseburger sales because you're reading an analogy literally.  The fact that you can't understand how ridiculous that is pretty sad tbh.

 

The point of the thread doesn't change the reality of the specifics of founders exclusives.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Mesyra]

while a reply from DE would be great but I doubt that we will get anything about this from DE till probably 50+ pages on the thread.

[Azawarau]

The key line is "missed out on it"

Using different wording and scenarios doesn't hide the fact that its asking to get something that you missed. The reason for missing it doesn't matter.

I've personally stated multiple times that as a Founder I am not opposed to the dual weapons being released. Our package was for single items so anything else that is released will NEVER carry the worth or prestige of the original issue. Welfare versions at best. What I AM opposed to is that you guys won't be satisfied with that. You will always covet what we have and you don't. If DE gave everyone a set of Founder frame and weapons tomorrow for free, 5 min later the posts will start asking about the badges, the Solar Landmarks, the Custom Lotus Messages we get, access to our chat etc. Like the Oracle said about Smith... you won't stop until there's nothing left at all.

If you miss history, that's too bad. You can read about it and watch the documentary and talk to survivors, but you can never relive it or do it yourself. It is a ONE TIME EVENT.

You guys missed out on something. That's all. Let it go already and move on. For the last time

Im sitting here tellign you i wont

 

Many others are too

 

There will be people who still will but thats how people are

 

Are you really solving anything with this or just arguing nothing?

 

I can already see it spiraling. You may not see it. But it's very slowly heading down that path. Too many complaints and whining on both sides. I'm just going to sit back and watch how this goes (Actually going to ignore this thread now, because I can't see it heading ANYWHERE at all).

But its not ._.

 

Its been relatively civil here

 

Enjoy the show i guess

[Ionus]

No, you edited after you realized it was a bullS#&$ line of reasoning.

 

Too bad for you two people had already quoted the original post.

 

No, you're focusing on cheeseburger sales because you're reading an analogy literally.  The fact that you can't understand how ridiculous that is pretty sad tbh.

 

The point of the thread doesn't change the reality of the specifics of founders exclusives.

 

If you actually look at my post compared to the new one, I said I was going to look for dual weapons with a single variant that wasn't available to the public at large. I came back and stated that the only weapons that could fit into the category were the ones whose single version didn't exist. My post may have been confusing and I apologize.

 

People can read the original post all they want. It's still the same opinion throughout both.

 

Okay, forget the analogy. I was trying to point out your faulty reasoning but you're still using it as ammo against my own argument.

 

Then stop speaking in terms that doesn't concern this thread's topic. Will dual skana prime and aklato prime solve the exclusivity issue?

 

Like Antoine said, why are you specifically wanting dual skana prime and aklato prime?

[Mesyra]

Like Antoine said, why are you specifically wanting dual skana prime and aklato prime?

to shut up the whiners and help the OCD collectors that want them, as it has been stated many times already. please read the thread.

[Kartumterek]

while a reply from DE would be great but I doubt that we will get anything about this from DE till probably 50+ pages on the thread.

You already know DE official stance on this topic. There's no need to try and pigeonhole DE into addressing this. This is a self made "dilemma" that has an answer that you guys just don't like, that's all

[Ionus]

to shut up the whiners and help the OCD collectors that want them, as it has been stated many times already. please read the thread.

 

But it won't. Please explain how it will?

 

Founders will still have the single versions and that's what people want. Adding dual versions will only change if from Founders being annoyed by non-founders wanting their stuff and being angry at DE to both sides being angry at DE.

 

Also, the question wasn't directed at you. It was directed at somebody else who is taking the argument out of context of the intent of the topic. Don't tell me to read when I've been posting throughout.

[Mesyra]

You already know DE official stance on this topic. There's no need to try and pigeonhole DE into addressing this. This is a self made "dilemma" that has an answer that you guys just don't like, that's all

please post a link to your source on DE's stance on these akimbo weapons. and I am not trying to get DE to address this thread, I said It would be  nice.

[Kartumterek]

But it won't. Please explain how it will?

 

Founders will still have the single versions and that's what people want. Adding dual versions will only change if from Founders being annoyed by non-founders wanting their stuff and being angry at DE to both sides being angry at DE.

 

Also, the question wasn't directed at you. It was directed at somebody else who is taking the argument out of context of the intent of the topic. Don't tell me to read when I've been posting throughout.

Bingo. They will still covet what we have and they don't. It addresses nothing

[Mithie]

I find it absolutely hilarious that the two posters (the OP and Aggh) who are the most passionate supporters in this thread both stated very clearly that they don't actually care about the weapons themselves.

 

So where are these people that actually DO care about getting their hands on the dual founder primes, and why aren't they involved in this argument?

[Ionus]

I find it absolutely hilarious that the two posters (the OP and Aggh) who are the most passionate supporters in this thread both stated very clearly that they don't actually care about the weapons themselves.

 

So where are these people that actually DO care about getting their hands on the dual founder primes, and why aren't they involved in this argument?

 

I am also interested to know.

[Aggh]

If you actually look at my post compared to the new one, I said I was going to look for dual weapons with a single variant that wasn't available to the public at large. I came back and stated that the only weapons that could fit into the category were the ones whose single version didn't exist. My post may have been confusing and I apologize.

 

People can read the original post all they want. It's still the same opinion throughout both.

 

Okay, forget the analogy. I was trying to point out your faulty reasoning but you're still using it as ammo against my own argument.

 

Then stop speaking in terms that doesn't concern this thread's topic. Will dual skana prime and aklato prime solve the exclusivity issue?

 

Like Antoine said, why are you specifically wanting dual skana prime and aklato prime?

You might want to go back and read it yourself then.  The fact that you asked that question and then suddenly decided that weapons without a single variant magically don't count shows how flimsy and unsupported your argument is.

 

I'm not arguing about those weapons.  I'm arguing against the entitlement that people seem to think that they have regarding those weapons.  Which is part of the core argument over why this shouldn't be done so it's still perfectly relevant to the topic of the thread.  There are other weapons that this same argument could be brought up against so it's an argument that does need to be refuted.

 

 

You made your self an example of his post.

 

They belive so hard that they are entitled so they won't budge. We on the other hand know what they are and are not entitled to so we won't stop until they stop trying to lay claim to items they did not buy. Digital Extremes on the other hand appears to be ignoring the subject.

 

So with no side budging we do need a compromise. A word from DE about the founders purchase agreement showing the actual agreement and some sort of release that pleases our side.

They were pretty clear about what founders were paying for

 

It's how founders programs in all games work.  You get what you paid for.

 

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that the two posters (the OP and Aggh) who are the most passionate supporters in this thread both stated very clearly that they don't actually care about the weapons themselves.

 

So where are these people that actually DO care about getting their hands on the dual founder primes, and why aren't they involved in this argument?

You must be new to the internet and online games.  The vast majority of players don't even bother reading the forums and even less (not even 5% in the handful of games I've seen companies post metrics for) actually post on them.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh