Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Mithie]

 

You must be new to the internet and online games.  The vast majority of players don't even bother reading the forums, let alone post on them.

 

So you're... what? Crusading on behalf of the silent majority? 

Some honest advice here:

 

If you want this to go beyond a 32 page ramble on the forums (which the vast majority of players don't read or post) then I would advise you to seek out these people and get them onboard.

 

Get a petition going. Convince DE that there's a significant portion of their playerbase who actually CARES about this suggestion. The only thing that's going to influence DE and drown out the opposition from the founders is if you can actually convince them a significant portion of their customer base is threatened.

 

Go into the game, grab some followers, get them involved. Build your community to build your argument. FORCE DE to take a stand. 

 

Because at this point, all you're demonstrating is a couple of guys with too much time on their hands making a bid for something which, ultimately, results in consequences which neither of you care about.

Edited June 9, 2014 by mithie2

[Kartumterek]

You might want to go back and read it yourself then.  The fact that you asked that question and then suddenly decided that weapons without a single variant magically don't count shows how flimsy and unsupported your argument is.

 

I'm not arguing about those weapons.  I'm arguing against the entitlement that people seem to think that they have regarding those weapons.  Which is part of the core argument over why this shouldn't be done so it's still perfectly relevant to the topic of the thread.  There are other weapons that this same argument could be brought up against so it's an argument that does need to be refuted.

 

 

They were pretty clear about what founders were paying for

 

It's how founders programs in all games work.  You get what you paid for.

I remember looking at the Founder packages for weeks and weeks before deciding to buy. I had read some unfavorable reviews on the game beforehand and I didn't think the game was gonna make it honestly. But I rolled the dice and placed my bet.

Happy that it worked out (so far) 

 

You must be new to the internet and online games.  The vast majority of players don't even bother reading the forums, let alone post on them.

[Aggh]

So you're... what? Crusading on behalf of the silent majority? 

Some honest advice here:

 

If you want this to go beyond a 32 page ramble on the forums (which the vast majority of players don't read or post) then I would advise you to seek out these people and get them onboard.

 

Get a petition going. Convince DE that there's a significant portion of their playerbase who actually CARES about this suggestion. The only thing that's going to influence DE and drown out the opposition from the founders is if you can actually convince them a significant portion of their customer base is threatened.

 

Go into the game, grab some followers, get them involved. Build your community to build your argument. FORCE DE to take a stand. 

 

Because at this point, all you're demonstrating is a couple of guys with too much time on their hands making a bid for something which, ultimately, results in consequences which neither of you care about.

You REALLY must be new to the internet and online games.  If there's one thing that Devs don't like it's petitions.  You can ask them questions, make suggestions, but no one appreciates demands.  Petitions are a great way to get you idea ignored, especially in the case of a developer that makes the effort to actively engage with the community.

 

What I'm demonstrating is that whining founders don't have a foot to stand on in regard to this issue :|

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Shanicus]

This is the longest thread on semantics I've ever seen. Amazing.

 

You must be new to the internet and online games.  The vast majority of players don't even bother reading the forums and even less (not even 5%) actually post on them.

 

I don't think that's... evidence to support OR weaken your argument, you know. If the majority of players don't post on the forums, then their stance is unknown and can't be used as evidence for or against a movement. You also can't assume they stand on your side, since people against you can just go 'Well no, they're on my side' and it'd be just as valid a claim.

Appeals to the silent majority aren't valid appeals at all. It's... kinda how these things work.

[Kartumterek]

Lol fail quote, tablet posting ftl

[Mithie]

You REALLY must be new to the internet and online games.  If there's one thing that Devs don't like it's petitions.  You can ask them questions, make suggestions, but devs do not appreciate demands.

 

What I'm demonstrating is that whining founders don't have a foot to stand on in regard to this issue :|

 

Then I'm telling you that you're wasting your time, because DE isn't going to look at this thread and decide to release the dual primes.

No founder is going to read this thread and admit they're wrong.

 

No one sitting on the fence is going to read this thread and decide to hate/love founders.

 

I think you need to decide what kind of result you're aiming for and work towards that, because believe it or not, I think most of us founders are pretty sick of these threads day in and day out for the past year and a half.

 

If you want to get something done, find your supporters, build your community, and take the fight to DE. I can't advise you on the best way to do that, but I think, if you actually want a result, you need to come up with a better way than this.\

 

It's pretty clear you have a strong opinion on this issue, regardless of whether you care about the outcome. I'm going to tell you straight out that this thread can go on for 70 more pages and nothing will get done.

 

We've done this before. Many, many, many times.

The decision makers in this scenario is DE. That's your target. Not us. The absolute best way to prove your argument is to get DE to take action in your favor, and you know what, after so many @(*()$ founders gear threads, I for one would be pretty happy to see it end one way or another.

Edited June 9, 2014 by mithie2

[Ionus]

You might want to go back and read it yourself then.  The fact that you asked that question and then suddenly decided that weapons without a single variant magically don't count shows how flimsy and unsupported your argument is.

 

I'm not arguing about those weapons.  I'm arguing against the entitlement that people seem to think that they have regarding those weapons.  Which is part of the core argument over why this shouldn't be done so it's still perfectly relevant to the topic of the thread.  There are other weapons that this same argument could be brought up against so it's an argument that does need to be refuted.

 

My argument was ambiguous and I admit it. However, the fact that you keep accusing me of changing my stance means you're just grasping for reasons to tell me that I am wrong. You go on saying this is how dual weapons are treated and I elaborate on it saying this is how dual weapons in relation to their single counterparts are treated. You then brush it off saying it's different because reasons.

 

If you aren't arguing about these weapons, then please stop posting here. You're derailing the thread and straying from the entire point of the topic being discussed. All this is being reduced to is the same as every other thread about founders that got locked.

[Aggh]

Then I'm telling you that you're wasting your time, because DE isn't going to look at this thread and decide to release the dual primes.

No founder is going to read this thread and admit they're wrong.

 

No one sitting on the fence is going to read this thread and decide to hate/love founders.

 

I think you need to decide what kind of result you're aiming for and work towards that, because believe it or not, I think most of us founders are pretty sick of these threads day in and day out for the past year and a half.

 

If you want to get something done, find your supporters, build your community, and take the fight to DE. I can't advise you on the best way to do that, but I think, if you actually want a result, you need to come up with a better way than this.

I love it.  You were never able to actually refute my argument so now you're trying to dissuade me from continuing the discussion on not entirely factual assertion that discussion like this can't effect change.  And all the while you're showing a clear misunderstanding of so many basic and well known facts.

 

Stay classy :|

 

 

 

My argument was ambiguous and I admit it. However, the fact that you keep accusing me of changing my stance means you're just grasping for reasons to tell me that I am wrong. You go on saying this is how dual weapons are treated and I elaborate on it saying this is how dual weapons in relation to their single counterparts are treated. You then brush it off saying it's different because reasons.

 

If you aren't arguing about these weapons, then please stop posting here. You're derailing the thread and straying from the entire point of the topic being discussed. All this is being reduced to is the same as every other thread about founders that got locked.

I don't need to grasp for reasons to tell you that you're wrong.  Breaking down your arguments does that well enough.  You say that, and then make special exceptions for examples that contradict your line of reasoning.  If they can release a dual weapon when there is no single variant available, they can freely do that whether or not there ever has been one.  There is literally no rule saying that they can't, you're just trying to establish precedent as though it actually matters at all.

 

The only possible road block to these weapons being released is whether or not it violates founders exclusivity, which it doesn't.  Unless they're under some kind of obligation to only release dual weapons in a specific manner (and they are not ), DE can release them however the heck they please.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Mithie]

I love it.  You were never able to actually refute my argument so now you're trying to dissuade me from continuing the discussion on not entirely factual assertion that discussion like this can't effect change.  And all the while you're showing a clear misunderstanding of so many basic and well known facts.

 

Stay classy :|

 

You can continue for however long you want. I'm not your mother. I can't control what you do.

 

I'm only pointing out that there's a difference between actually doing something and being passive aggressive on the forums.

But hey, it's your time. Don't let me tell you how you should spend it.

 

PS; I think your ignore list isn't working. I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be on it like, 10 pages ago.

Edited June 9, 2014 by mithie2

[Doom_Bunny]

Then I'm telling you that you're wasting your time, because DE isn't going to look at this thread and decide to release the dual primes.

No founder is going to read this thread and admit they're wrong.

 

No one sitting on the fence is going to read this thread and decide to hate/love founders.

 

I think you need to decide what kind of result you're aiming for and work towards that, because believe it or not, I think most of us founders are pretty sick of these threads day in and day out for the past year and a half.

 

If you want to get something done, find your supporters, build your community, and take the fight to DE. I can't advise you on the best way to do that, but I think, if you actually want a result, you need to come up with a better way than this.

He already stated that his aim was to stop founders laying claim to what they didn't buy. Where else to that then in a thread where the discussion and people are wrought from the begining. Coming up with a community will do nothing because a thread made by that community will be flooded with people that believe they are entitled and spiral down into an inferno. Besides that not many people will stand up to founders cause usualy they burn without reason besides from "I'm entitled to this".

 

You're going arfter a main debater and OP instead of staying on topic, it seems a desperate attempt to stop the debate.

[Aggh]

You can continue for however long you want. I'm not your mother. I can't control what you do.

 

I'm only pointing out that there's a difference between actually doing something and being passive aggressive on the forums.

But hey, it's your time. Don't let me tell you how you should spend it.

 

PS; I think your ignore list isn't working. I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be on it like, 10 pages ago.

But mommy I saw your quote and just had to correct your ignorance.  Why join a forum if not to learn from the community?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Ionus]

I don't need to grasp for reasons to tell you that you're wrong.  Breaking down your arguments does that well enough.  You say that, and then make special exceptions for examples that contradict your line of reasoning.  If they can release a dual weapon when there is no single variant available, they can freely do that whether or not there ever has been one.  There is literally no rule saying that they can't, you're just trying to establish precedent as though it actually matters at all.

 

The only possible road block to these weapons being released is whether or not it violates founders exclusivity, which it doesn't.  Unless they're under some kind of obligation to only release dual weapons in a specific manner (and they are not ), DE can release them however the heck they please.

 

My reasoning was that if a single version exists alongside a dual version, both must be publicly obtainable. You seem to be confused on this part. There may not be a rule, but if they end up releasing it through a scummy loophole that won't sit well with a lot of people.

 

Like Antoine said, if people see non-founders with this in their hand despite what is in the other hand:

That is a re-release of the skana prime. No ifs, ands, or buts. Putting a shorter version in their other hand or having two of them doesn't change what they are.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Ionus

[Mithie]

My reasoning was that if a single version exists alongside a dual version, both must be publicly obtainable. You seem to be confused on this part. There may not be a rule, but if they end up releasing it through a scummy loophole that won't sit well with a lot of people.

 

Like Antoine said, if people see non-founders with this in their hand despite what is in the other hand:

That is a re-release of the skana prime. No ifs, ands, or buts. Putting a shorter version in their other hand or having two of them doesn't change what they are.

 

I agree. If you're going to release dual skana primes and dual lato primes, you may as well release their single counterparts as well.

[Aggh]

My reasoning was that if a single version exists alongside a dual version, both must be publicly obtainable. You seem to be confused on this part. There may not be a rule, but if they end up releasing it through a scummy loophole that won't sit well with a lot of people.

 

Like Antoine said, if people see non-founders with this in their hand despite what is in the other hand:

That is a re-release of the skana prime. No ifs, ands, or buts. Putting a shorter version in their other hand or having two of them doesn't change what they are.

Why does it have to be?  Where has that ever been stated?  You're assuming that these are rules that have to have to be blindly followed when there is no real reason that DE has to do that.

 

No, it's not.  It's dual skana prime.  It does change them. Or did skana prime suddenly become a dual sword (which is an actual defined class of weapon) and is now able to equip swirling tiger and crossing snakes?  I suppose all the separate animations that have been created for the dual skana as a separate product mean nothing.  DE may as well fire the animation department because their work does not actually mean anything towards what makes the end product.  I mean hell, while they're at it, they may as well just give away all dual versions since they're clearly not a separate product despite having been marketed and sold as such for the entire time this game has been out.

 

It's great to know that you value the work that DE puts into each weapon so little.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Ionus]

Why does it have to be?  Where has that ever been stated?  You're assuming that these are rules that have to have to be blindly followed when there is no real reason that DE has to do that.

 

No, it's not.  It's dual skana prime.  It does change them. Or did skana prime suddenly become a dual sword (which is an actual defined class of weapon) and is now able to equip swirling tiger and crossing snakes?  I suppose all the separate animations that have been created for the dual skana as a separate product mean nothing.  DE may as well fire the animation department because their work does not actually mean anything towards what makes the end product.  I mean hell, while they're at it, they may as well just give away all dual versions since they're clearly not a separate product despite having been marketed and sold as such for the entire time this game has been out.

 

It's great to know that you put such little value into the work that DE puts in each weapon.

 

They don't need to be followed by DE, but if DE pulls something like this, it will not end well. Jumping on a technicality is something they've yet to do, which sets them apart from other developers.

 

Also nice strawman.

 

[Aggh]

They don't need to be followed by DE, but if DE pulls something like this, it will not end well. Jumping on a technicality is something they've yet to do, which sets them apart from other developers.

 

Also nice strawman.

 

Please if founders actually quit the game every time they didn't get their way we wouldn't have any left.  This is another in a long line of temper tantrums.  Threatening to quit the game every time you don't get what you want and assuming that you're still important because you spent $20-250 months and months ago is quickly becoming a less serious threat than many wish it was.

 

I'll admit that the latter half of that paragraph was a strawman, but using that as an excuse to not address the first couple statements is a cop out :|

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

Why not just make Dragon versions and stick them in the Tenno Lab? Hek, make a Dragon Excal too and have them share the mastery with the Founders equipment.

[Mithie]

Why not just make Dragon versions and stick them in the Tenno Lab? Hek, make a Dragon Excal too and have them share the mastery with the Founders equipment.

 

This could work too. Make the founder's prime versions as exclusive skins.

[Ionus]

I'll admit that the latter half of that paragraph was a strawman, but using that as an excuse to not address the first couple statements is a cop out :|

 

And a clever one too if I do say so myself! Since we obviously can't agree on the dual vs single argument, I'm out.

 

 

Edit: Blantantfool spotted. Lock imminent.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Ionus

[PsychedelicSnake]

Sometimes I'm reminded that if the forums were a single entity we'd be considered clinically and dangerously insane.

[Aggh]

Why not just make Dragon versions and stick them in the Tenno Lab? Hek, make a Dragon Excal too and have them share the mastery with the Founders equipment.

Why not both?  Why exactly does there need to be a compromise on a weapon that DE holds no obligations towards anyone for?

 

 

And a clever one too if I do say so myself! Since we obviously can't agree on the dual vs single argument, I'm out.

 

 

Edit: Blantantfool spotted. Lock imminent.

 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Azawarau]

Sometimes I'm reminded that if the forums were a single entity we'd be considered clinically and dangerously insane.

Thats pretty much people in general isnt it?

 

Perfect example:Twitch Plays Pokemon

Edited June 9, 2014 by Azawarau

[Blatantfool]

 In my likely unpopular opinion, yeah. I think they should release a Dual Skana Prime and a Dual Lato Prime.

 

 I believe that the two weapons should require some seriously high mastery rank to craft and be rather expensive material-wise.

 

 I also believe that Founders who posses the Lato and Skana Primes should be able to craft the Dual Skana and Dual Lato Prime at half the material and credit cost AND should be exempt from the Mastery rank requirement. I think it'd be an appropriately cool nod to Founders.

 

 I don't think that it is worth arguing whether or not Skana and Lato Prime being Founders weapons should mean that Dual versions of either weapon shouldn't exist at all or should exist only for Founders. It's pretty nonsensical to want less weapons in the game. I feel like it is even worse to imply that DE should be saving certain weapons for Founders this long after the Founder packs ceased to exist.

 

 They should add the two Dual Primes eventually. Not now. Not even soon. Just eventually. Somewhere along the line. When they do they should just remember to package it with some special bonus that kicks in if you already happen to own the normal Lato or Skana Prime. Make the game say "OH! You've already got one of those old weapons! Great! So when you do craft the Dual versions you'll get something slightly different!"

 

 Perhaps add a glowing, gold aura to the dual primes if you own the singular Primes first as well. Just to be sexy. That way a Founder holding the Dual Prime is visibly unique to someone who just crafted the Dual Primes through a mountain of raw mats.

 

 

 There is my 2 cents. It is mostly rambling on the spot about what I think. I've been checking this thread on an off for a few days trying to really make up my mind what I thought would be 'the right thing' in my opinion.

[PsychedelicSnake]

I'm completely neutral.

 

But after spending so much time with the community, I can't help but feel that even if these were released, there will still be people that want the Founders Exclusives.

 

Obviously, that'll never change.

[Blatantfool]

I'm completely neutral.

 

But after spending so much time with the community, I can't help but feel that even if these were released, there will still be people that want the Founders Exclusives.

 

Obviously, that'll never change.

 

 Sounds about right. In the case of Excalibur, Lato and Skana Prime it will ALWAYS be the fact that people can't have them now that drives people to want them. They could release a quad-wielding variant of Lato Prime and we'd still see people mention wanting the Founder's Lato Prime in threads.