Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[sneakatone]

I would like to have these dual weapons. For the people worried about mastery , there is always going to be new stuff to level.

[Fate_6]

Look, making Founder's weapons available to everyone in dual variants is just not right to the Founders who paid for their originals. It's not like the Skana Prime and Lato Prime are even that good.

 

Now, if you want a REAL compromise do this - for EVERY exclusive item (Excal Prime, Skana Prime, Lato Prime - event weapons aren't technically exclusive as they may come back) just remove the mastery experience. I'm sure most Founders hardly care about the mastery experience that their Founder's gear has given them. People seem to be hung up on not getting as much mastery experience as Founders. If we need to compromise, there it is.

[CrimsonPorpoise]

Put the founders packages up for sale again.

 

Price them at $400.

There. Everyone's happy.

 

That is not a good suggestion at all.  Reopening founders with a larger price tag will only upset everyone in different ways.

The issue with founders is that they want to maintain their exclusivity. Reopening founders programme will lose that.

Players whom want the Founders package will be upset by the higher price.

[Vitras]

Wow, a lot of people rude right off the bat. Calm down people, if you don't like it you can just say no thanks then ignore it... Please. Being a founder means you supported the game in the early stages, it doesn't mean that you get the shiny stuff. To me it's like donating to charity and expecting a reward.

 

To OP - I think that'd be a great solution, as 1) the founders would still have their exclusives and 2) all other players would get their own versions of it.

1) The single Skana and Lato Prime would still be exclusives. I've heard that most founders don't even use them, so it's not about their usefulness. They're just trophies. The point with this whole topic is that founders will still have their "collector's edition" weapons and other players will have a chance for their own versions.

2) I'd like it just because I love the prime frames/weapons in general. I love the look. I don't get how just two weapons can be that big of a deal for master when there are regular versions of them and basically a new weapon every week (I mean really).

 

P.S. If there are founders who want to criticize me and insult me, they will be proving my first point that you are a founder for the reward and the shiny badge, not for the deed and the meaning. I don't want to be proven right, honestly.

[ra9una]

I like this solution, now we just need a solution for Excalibur prime.

Akxcalibur prime of course.

[Aggh]

It's hard to not be rude when you say the same obvious things again and again but people refuse to listen.

 

Your thread is going nowhere because Founders is exclusive. The End.

If Aklato prime and dual skana prime were founders exclusives, you'd have a point.  That's not the case though.  Just like the normal dual skana and the normal aklato, they would be separate weapons from the single versions.  DE has made no promises and is under no obligations concerning these weapons.

 

Tbh I don't really see this as addressing all the hub bub surrounding founders items since it has virtually nothing to do with them.

 

Making founders exclusives tradeable is the only way I can see addressing the issue without changing their exclusivity.

 

 

I still don't understand why this thread is still open. Founders isn't coming back. The items aren't coming back. Dual versions are basically the same as the single versions.

 

Feel free to explain how Aklato prime and dual skana prime are founders weapons.  I'm curious since they have yet to actually be created.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[OniDax]

No they arent. Dual versions are seperate weapons. They share a similar name but they are still different and are not founders weapons. Just because you do not share the same idea or agree with the OP does not mean a thread should be closed. Heck even if a DE said this thread could exist that means they may consider it as something that may happen. (and judging that mods have not closed it yet closed other threads that mentioned exclusive stuff means that this thread is actually acceptable)

 

No, the thread should be closed because it's yet another discussion on Founders stuff. Any other Founders-related thread is closed, this one should be no exception just because it's pro-Founder-release.

 

Given that a dev gave the go ahead to put up this thread, I think it's obvious that they are considering re-releasing Founders stuff. I just want a refund then. Refund me the money I paid for, and then go ahead and add all these items to the drop table. Because if these items are going to be available for free like every other Prime Access weapon/frame that's also available in the Void, then it's a bit wrong for Founders to have paid money for these items when everyone else gets them for free. And I guarantee you, if Founders stuff comes back, it'll come back just like the current Prime Access.

 

So just refund me the money I paid for Founders (no, I want my money back, not platinum), let me keep all my Founders stuff, and then go ahead and release all the Founders stuff in the same exact way as Prime Access. That's the best solution. Sure, might not be the best solution for DE, but it's the best solution to not have a divided community. Founders stuff would be accessible through Prime Access and through in-game farming, so you'd still have money coming in.

Edited June 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[OniDax]

Naw, I want my money back, and I want Founders stuff to be released the same way other Prime stuff is. That way, everyone has access to the Founders stuff while at the same time Founders aren't cheated out of their money.

[dragonkingdx]

No, the thread should be closed because it's yet another discussion on Founders stuff. Any other Founders-related thread is closed, this one should be no exception just because it's pro-Founder-release.

 

Given that a dev gave the go ahead to put up this thread, I think it's obvious that they are considering re-releasing Founders stuff. I just want a refund then. Refund me the money I paid for, and then go ahead and add all these items to the drop table. Because if these items are going to be available for free like every other Prime Access weapon/frame that's also available in the Void, then it's a bit wrong for Founders to have paid money for these items when everyone else gets them for free. And I guarantee you, if Founders stuff comes back, it'll come back just like the current Prime Access.

 

So just refund me the money I paid for Founders (no, I want my money back, not platinum), let me keep all my Founders stuff, and then go ahead and release all the Founders stuff in the same exact way as Prime Access. That's the best solution. Sure, might not be the best solution for DE, but it's the best solution to not have a divided community. Founders stuff would be accessible through Prime Access and through in-game farming, so you'd still have money coming in.

 

But dual versions of prime stuff is not a founders item. You have no grounds to call claims on the names of prime versions. Only grounds to call claims on the exclusive items within that pack. Which are not even a part of the discussion in regards to obtaining those weapons that founders were given. Thus founders keep their weapons.

 

In any sense whats being asked is for them to release aklato prime/dual skana prime. 2 weaps which do not exist atm. Thus they are not linked to the founders package in any way. It really just seems like your getting picky because you don't want people having something that shares a similar name to a founders item. Similar name different item o.o thus you cant claim it to be a founders item. (otherwise the same ideal could be said of excalibur warframe. Since that shares the same name as excal prime)

[Verre]

Hmm.. 

 

 

I still have to disagree with this. 

It may be a dual variant of the weapon, but it's still based off something that came with the Founders stuff. 

[Doom_Bunny]

I like this solution, now we just need a solution for Excalibur prime.

The proto skin fixed this and you have a much better chance of getting that permantly released, so go for that.

[Verre]

But dual versions of prime stuff is not a founders item. You have no grounds to call claims on the names of prime versions. Only grounds to call claims on the exclusive items within that pack. Which are not even a part of the discussion in regards to obtaining those weapons that founders were given. Thus founders keep their weapons.

 

In any sense whats being asked is for them to release aklato prime/dual skana prime. 2 weaps which do not exist atm. Thus they are not linked to the founders package in any way. It really just seems like your getting picky because you don't want people having something that shares a similar name to a founders item. Similar name different item o.o thus you cant claim it to be a founders item. (otherwise the same ideal could be said of excalibur warframe. Since that shares the same name as excal prime)

 

True. 

But sadly, It wouldn't please everyone. Even If we were to get something like Aklato Prime.

Wouldn't fix the issue of them not having just the single weapon. 

 

Then we would hear complaints about that. 

[OniDax]

Hmm.. 

 

 

I still have to disagree with this. 

It may be a dual variant of the weapon, but it's still based off something that came with the Founders stuff. 

 

Thank you. You re release the Excalibur Prime frame with a different name and a few changes and it's still the Excalibur Prime frame. It's a cheap way of getting around the legal issues.

 

There will never be an end to complaining unless DE refunds Founders their money, let's them keep all the stuff they paid for, and then re-releases the Founders frame and weapons in the same exact fashion as all the other Primes - through Prime Access and through the Void droptable.

Edited June 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[dragonkingdx]

True. 

But sadly, It wouldn't please everyone. Even If we were to get something like Aklato Prime.

Wouldn't fix the issue of them not having just the single weapon. 

 

Then we would hear complaints about that. 

meh IDK the idea varies of why people wanted founders items to be re released. It could vary for the look, the Mastery points, the feel/trophy. IDK why people really want the original version.

 

They should have their items to be exclusive to them as they earned that for being the first sets to support the game. So those weapons shouldn't be released. Ak/dual versions don't exist atm so its technically free game. Just seems like some founders would just want to grasp at straws to say anything that even looks remotely similar is ours and ours alone. Which really isnt an argument as they were promised that the original weapons would not be re released. Different models are not original weaps since they do not share mastery points or lvls. And would in no way infringe on the promise DE gave to them

Edited June 6, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[Aggh]

Hmm.. 

 

 

I still have to disagree with this. 

It may be a dual variant of the weapon, but it's still based off something that came with the Founders stuff. 

Thinking that doesn't make it true.  Dual weapon variants are separate weapons.  They have different stats, provide separate mastery, and have different animations.  And it's not based off the founders stuff.  It's based of the normal versions.  IE in this case, the Aklato and the Dual Skana.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[OniDax]

meh IDK the idea varies of why people wanted founders items to be re released. It could vary for the look, the Mastery points, the feel/trophy. IDK why people really want the original version.

 

They should have their items to be exclusive to them as they earned that for being the first sets to support the game. So those weapons shouldn't be released. Ak/dual versions don't exist atm so its technically free game. Just seems like some founders would just want to grasp at straws to say anything that even looks remotely similar is ours and ours alone. Which really isnt an argument as they were promised that the original weapons would not be re released. Different models are not original weaps since they do not share mastery points or lvls. And would in no way infringe on the promise DE gave to them

 

Aklato prime is having two lato primes. If I have two lamborghinis that are the same model, they are essentially the same. It's not a lamborghini and a buick. If one guy gets one lamborghini that is said to be a limited time offer, never to return, legally binding, and then once that time is up, someone else gets two lamborghinis, that indeed would still be a legal problem because it is the same. The number of them doesn't make it different.

 

Look, I'm fine with DE not releasing these items, and I'm fine with them releasing them. But if they re-release these items all I want is my money back. Why? Because imo the best way to bring back Founders stuff is to bring it back just like the rest of the Prime stuff. Otherwise, you're just going to get the Founders pack released for a limited time, just like before, and then once it's gone people will be complaining again that they didn't get it. The same thing will happen whether it's the Lato Prime or Aklato Prime. And yes, releasing an Aklato Prime is a cheap way of trying to get around the legal issue of selling an exclusive, limited time offer, never coming back set of items.

 

So turning the Founders stuff into another Prime Access, with those items being also available in the Void, is the best way to bring those items back. IMO, Prime Access is the way Founders should have been. But to be absolutely fair to Founders who had the only option of paying for something that would now be available for free, a refund would be best for them. Again, DE loses out because of the money, but they'd quite possibly make that back with all the others who'd pay for this new Founders Prime Access pack.

 

 

Thinking that doesn't make it true.  Dual weapon variants are separate weapons.  They have different stats, provide separate mastery, and have different animations.  And it's not based off the founders stuff.  It's based of the normal versions.  IE in this case, the Aklato and the Dual Skana.

 

No, an Aklato Prime is an akimbo version of the Lato Prime. It's not a Prime version of the Aklato. Even the codex entry would list it as such because that's what it really is. It's having two Lato Primes. Just like it currently takes two Bronco Primes to make an Akbronco Prime, not some Akbronco.

Edited June 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Aggh]

No, an Aklato Prime is an akimbo version of the Lato Prime. It's not a Prime version of the Aklato. Even the codex entry would list it as such because that's what it really is. It's having two Lato Primes. Just like it currently takes two Bronco Primes to make an Akbronco Prime, not some Akbronco.

Visually perhaps, but functionally, you're wrong.  The Aklato has different accuracy, rate of fire, and magazine capacity. 

 

You're even more wrong with the dual skana since dual weapons have a shorter version (of which there is no existing counterpart) and dual melee weapons have completely different damage, fire rate, range and animations.

 

 Requring two copies of the single version for crafting is not one that is set in stone.  The dual heat sword and dual skana have no such requirement.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[OniDax]

I guess I just want a solution that's equally fair to Founders and non-Founders. I think there are better weapons than the Lato Prime and Skana Prime anyway, and no Aklato Prime or Dual Skana Prime would be better than the Lato Prime or Skana Prime. For me, the right way to release this stuff is to release them through a for-sale pack and through the Void drops. And I think that if they release these items, they should do it the right way. That's fair to everyone who didn't get them. But at the same time, what's fair to Founders is to at least a portion (at least a third) of that money back that they paid for Founders. Why? Because these items would be free, and then that's not fair to Founders whose only choice was to pay, and I don't think a platinum refund is right. That's the right way imo, and the fair way.

 

Also, with the items being released, maybe DE would use the opportunity to actually buff the Lato Prime and the Skana Prime, as well as touch up on Excalibur Prime. I'd like to be able to run around with non-Founders who've got these items. It's just that DE needs to be fair to Founders too, and releasing a derelict version of Excalibur Prime (which some have suggested) or an Aklato/Dual Skana Prime is dodging the legal issue by bringing back those items in a different form, whether it's as a dual weapon or a slight redesign. Functionally, they may be different because they're two different items in the game, but if you have an Excalibur Prime that is called by a different name and exists as a new frame alongside the untouched Excalibur Prime, even with different stats, it's the same. No, the visuals aren't dismissible just because it's a different item.

[Doom_Bunny]

 Requring two copies of the single version for crafting is not one that is set in stone.  The dual heat sword and dual skana have no such requirement.

OP mentioned a fix for requiring two of the weapon to make akimbo, people would collect double the required items to build them. So to avoid touching the founders you would get the bp for Aklato and collect two recievers, two barrels and extra resources.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Aggh]

I guess I just want a solution that's equally fair to Founders and non-Founders. I think there are better weapons than the Lato Prime and Skana Prime anyway, and no Aklato Prime or Dual Skana Prime would be better than the Lato Prime or Skana Prime. For me, the right way to release this stuff is to release them through a for-sale pack and through the Void drops. And I think that if they release these items, they should do it the right way. That's fair to everyone who didn't get them. But at the same time, what's fair to Founders is to at least a portion (at least a third) of that money back that they paid for Founders. Why? Because these items would be free, and then that's not fair to Founders whose only choice was to pay, and I don't think a platinum refund is right. That's the right way imo, and the fair way.

 

Also, with the items being released, maybe DE would use the opportunity to actually buff the Lato Prime and the Skana Prime, as well as touch up on Excalibur Prime. I'd like to be able to run around with non-Founders who've got these items. It's just that DE needs to be fair to Founders too, and releasing a derelict version of Excalibur Prime (which some have suggested) or an Aklato/Dual Skana Prime is dodging the legal issue by bringing back those items in a different form, whether it's as a dual weapon or a slight redesign. Functionally, they may be different because they're two different items in the game, but if you have an Excalibur Prime that is called by a different name and exists as a new frame alongside the untouched Excalibur Prime, even with different stats, it's the same. No, the visuals aren't dismissible just because it's a different item.

So basically you can't come up with a rational reason for this not to be done.  Whether the dual version is better or not is irrelevant.  Piles of other weapons are better, the only selling point that lato and skana prime have had is their exclusivity.  Releasing aklato and dual skana does not change that.

 

 

 

No, the visuals aren't dismissible just because it's a different item.

 

Sharing visual similarities is not the same as looking the same.  Even having two of them is still a significant visual difference..They look different and they function different.  There's no way you can twist that basic truth.

 

 

OP mentioned a fix for requiring two of the weapon to make akimbo, people would collect double the required items to build them. So to avoid touching the founders you would get the bp for Aklato and collect two recievers, two barrels and extra resources.

I'm not arguing against that.  I was pointing out that Antoine's argument that dual weapons requiring two copies of the single weapon has no real bearing on introducing aklato and dual skana.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[OniDax]

So basically you can't come up with a rational reason for this not to be done.  Whether the dual version is better or not is irrelevant.  Piles of other weapons are better, the only selling point that lato and skana prime have had is their exclusivity.  Releasing aklato and dual skana does not change that.

 

 

 

 

Sharing visual similarities is not the same as looking the same.  Even having two of them is still a significant visual difference..They look different and they function different.  There's no way you can twist that basic truth.

 

The rational reason for this not to be done is that the simple truth of an ak- anything it's that it's two of something. That's the basic truth. Aklato Prime is two Lato Primes. That's exactly the reason it's being suggested. You're not suggesting a Prime version of the Aklato (if it looked different, I'd honestly understand, but that's not what's been suggested here). A Dual Skana Prime is having dual Skana Primes, not a Prime version of the Dual Skanas. The whole reason it's being suggested here is to have two of the Founders items. That's the only reason it's being suggested. You suggest an Aklato Prime and a Dual Skana Prime with different meshes and I'll rest my case. You stick two Lato Primes and two Skana Primes in players' hands and I'll have an issue.

 

Oh, and the "selling point" of the Lato Prime and Skana Prime, as well as Excalibur Prime, to players who don't have them is that they don't have them, and they don't like not having something someone else has. If DE would make an Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime that don't resemble their single counterparts (say, gold plating on their non-prime models, or even completely new models), and yes, I'll be perfectly fine with it. But the look of the items also plays a hand in it being the same, and an Aklato Prime and a Dual Skana Prime that are nothing more than two of those items with different stats is nothing more than two of those founders items.

 

But like I said, my preferred option is for all the items to be released, with a portion of a refund.

Edited June 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

I'm only concerned that PS4 users never had a shot at content like this.  For that reason, I support the introduction of some PS4 exclusives, but not the reintroduction of previous exclusives for Founders.

 

 

So leave the Lato and Skana in the past.  Maybe bring out a Dex Lato and a Skana Vandal instead.

 

(I still think PS4 peeps should get a crack at Excalibur Prime or something very comparable.)

[JohnProdman]

Remove the mastery points from Founder gear and their counting for codex completion and I won't give a damn about not owning them.

[Aggh]

The rational reason for this not to be done is that the simple truth of an ak- anything it's that it's two of something. That's the basic truth. Aklato Prime is two Lato Primes. That's exactly the reason it's being suggested. You're not suggesting a Prime version of the Aklato (if it looked different, I'd honestly understand, but that's not what's been suggested here). A Dual Skana Prime is having dual Skana Primes, not a Prime version of the Dual Skanas. The whole reason it's being suggested here is to have two of the Founders items. That's the only reason it's being suggested. You suggest an Aklato Prime and a Dual Skana Prime with different meshes and I'll rest my case. You stick two Lato Primes and two Skana Primes in players' hands and I'll have an issue.

 

Oh, and the "selling point" of the Lato Prime and Skana Prime, as well as Excalibur Prime, to players who don't have them is that they don't have them, and they don't like not having something someone else has. If DE would make an Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime that don't resemble their single counterparts (say, gold plating on their non-prime models, or even completely new models), and yes, I'll be perfectly fine with it. But the look of the items also plays a hand in it being the same, and an Aklato Prime and a Dual Skana Prime that are nothing more than two of those items with different stats is nothing more than two of those founders items.

 

But like I said, my preferred option is for all the items to be released, with a portion of a refund.

 

Two latos is different from a lato.  The fact that you're unable to understand such a simple thing is not only hilarious, but does a great discredit to your argument.  Having a lato in each hand does  look different compared to having one.

 

And again, you're completely and utterly wrong about the dual skana.  Dual skana doesn't have two skanas.  I suggest you go and actually look at them in the game before you try and say that nonsense again.  You might as well say that carrying a katana and wakizashi is the same as carrying two katana.

 

You're trying to get something for nothing on the basis of nonexistent exclusivity.  Stop it.  DE owes you nothing in exchange for making a new weapon that they never made any promises about.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Aggh

[Fate_6]

So basically you can't come up with a rational reason for this not to be done.  Whether the dual version is better or not is irrelevant.  Piles of other weapons are better, the only selling point that lato and skana prime have had is their exclusivity.  Releasing aklato and dual skana does not change that.

 

 

 

 

Sharing visual similarities is not the same as looking the same.  Even having two of them is still a significant visual difference..They look different and they function different.  There's no way you can twist that basic truth.

 

 

I'm not arguing against that.  I was pointing out that Antoine's argument that dual weapons requiring two copies of the single weapon has no real bearing on introducing aklato and dual skana.

No weapon should be released that shares a model with the Lato Prime and Skana Prime. End of debate. Next you're going to ask for AkExcalibur Prime with two heads.

 

I don't even have Skana or Lato Prime and I'm offended that you think they are different enough for DE to get away with releasing them. It's literally the same model times two. All weapon stats would also be based off of the original Prime variants, against raising the question of how separate are they really.

[read: single and dual weapons are not mutually exclusive]

Edited June 6, 2014 by Fate_6