Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) This post is long overdue, but its not about hydroid, its about how his abilities interact with the game, and give payers more freedom / utility in a way, and in a sense, the trends we can observe in him that will probably show up again in future frames Crowd Control Hydroid is best known for crowd control. Just before he came, Zephyr arrived with tailwind, DIve Bomb and Tornado as pseudo CC. None of her abilities or hydroids abilities do a particularly high amount of damage, but they manage to cause enemy units to fall, tremble and trip in such a way that it is a lot more simple to kill them with our weapons Perhaps having more CC abilities as opposed to damage abilities will result in more players opting for better weapons as opposed to begging for God Mode abilities for newer frames in the future. Response to his abilities with the exception of undertow has generally been good, and perhaps this is because his skills apply to most every situation. Ease of Obtaining In order to obtain hydroid, you must first farm beacons, then build triangulator keys, and hope that RNG doesn't screw you after you defeat Vay Hek, and for more experienced players, the result almost always is farm squads, a team of Four Nekros players heading to Casta for 15 waves,simply to desecrate prosecutors. Beacon Farming =/= Enjoying content? Admittedly, it is alright to have RNG, but what this farm squad means is that all the players on the team simply go there to hunt Prosecutors, and Desecrate them for beacons. This is definitely not enjoying the games content, because players don't bother about the fun they are having slice and dicing grineer, they're there simply for beacons and nothing else. The drop-rates for beacons are also unreliable, making the idea of farming with Nekros the only reason most players visit Ceres anymore. In other words, beacon farming becomes just about the only objective people visit the stunning shipyards on Ceres anymore, and the carefully designed art sets go to waste Once you obtain the Triangulator after farming for those beacons, your still not in the clear, because you have to battle the RNG to obtain his parts. RNG is reasonable, and has its purposes, but it would definitely be a lot more easy for players to obtain Hydroid if they receive a lower chance to obtain one of his parts if they already have it The fact that hydroid requires a decent amount of effort to be earned f2p style means many people have been discouraged from getting him this way, and implementing this difficulty to obtain newer frames will almost definitely cause players to lose interest in finding and playing them. Case in point, many players would admit giving up on him after 6 or 7 vay hek runs if they don't get all his parts, because of the sheer amount of time to hunt for beacons parts in the first place, even with key sharing Design and Look Hydroids look is not praised often, but it does the job of conveying his pirate / water theme. His looks does a good job of showcasing Davy-Jones like qualities, although personally i believe the pirate aspect should have been left out in favor of a more streamlined look, reminiscent of the curves from nami skyla and such (dont get me wrong) However, after looking closely, his slender hands look extremely unappealing, and totally defy his otherwise interesting look. His breaches also seem misplaced, and extremely baggy considering theyre supposed to be cloth-like to the very least, but the general art direction is best conveyed the way he is, because Tenno are meant to be warriors, and these features could simply be aesthetic in nature. Simply put, as long as newer frames have proportional arms, their look and small details solve the design dilemmas for most warframes, in a way TL;DR : Hydroid matches good crowd control with a variety of playstyles and mod combinations, being effective at cc in almost every situation. However, he is hard to obtain without patience, and players run Ceres missions not to enjoy them, but to farm for beacons to obtain him, meaning the assets on Ceres get underappreciated. Hydroids look fits the rest of the game of space ninjas, and the detail on him is impressive although slender arms make no sense to me personally These trends set by hydroid will likely be how all frames from this point on shall be. Godspeed :D Edited June 10, 2014 by Somedude1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychedelicSnake Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 1. Triangulator Wall sucks wee-wee 2. Hydroid CC is amazing. 3. We need more non-damage focused frames. We seem to be moving in that direction, but we need MOAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 1. Triangulator Wall sucks wee-wee 2. Hydroid CC is amazing. 3. We need more non-damage focused frames. We seem to be moving in that direction, but we need MOAR. I like the way you think son :3 Godspeed :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Pianoff Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Admittedly, it is alright to have RNG, No it's NOT alright to have RNG in gameplay, and that's why Warframe is rotten to it's core: overreliance on RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at35z Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I had a terrible day once with the prosecutors. One of them went next to the cryopod, and - of course - it protected all enemies nearby. AND - OF COURSE - we didn't have any weapon with pure toxin damage so we failed everything. I ain't gonna farm him. That's all. It's just not funny. I'm not saying that killing a boss 3 or more times in a row IS funny, but this way strongly depends on luck and not your actual performance and agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychedelicSnake Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 No it's NOT alright to have RNG in gameplay, and that's why Warframe is rotten to it's core: overreliance on RNG. It's completely fine to have pseudo RNG. What we have now is pure RNG, which is not that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince_Seal Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I used to main Frost Prime, then I got Hydroid. (I bought him, I had done a lot of farming other things beforehand and was tired of farming) I would run ODD to level him and I was the CC master. The Infested were having issues getting by the moistened artillery and tentacles, it was so fun. We definitely need more CCframes, they're loads more fun than kill-everybody frames. Edited June 10, 2014 by BigFreedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I don't know. Once you ignore the 'oh jeez, grinding' feeling for beacons and just make the beacons your objective and accept what you have to do you actually enjoy the levels and fight a lot more. It became hectic at some points and from 'meh' it became 'this should be fun'. Probably contradicted myself but I think the challenge the prosecutors provided made it a slightly different ball game. On another note I've been wondering - why do you always post 'Godspeed :D' at the end of every single post? Edited June 10, 2014 by Naith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Hydroid is the worst kind of CC as it actually slows down the team's time-to-kill. Worse yet, it doesn't even make the enemies easier to hit. This means that not only are headshots impossible but you waste ammo trying to even target the multitude of enemies that are being flailed around for 30+ seconds at a time. Anyone that thinks Hydroid is great CC either only plays at low levels or has no idea what CC is supposed to offer... control. Edited June 10, 2014 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychedelicSnake Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hydroid is the worst kind of CC as it actually slows down the team's time-to-kill. Worse yet, it doesn't even gather the enemies to make them easier to hit. This means that not only our headshots impossible but you waste ammo trying to even target the multitude of enemies that are being flailed around for 30+ seconds at a time. Anyone that thinks Hydroid is great CC either only plays at low levels or has no idea what CC is supposed to offer... control. To each his own I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 On another note I've been wondering - why do you always post 'Godspeed :D' at the end of every single post? Because I'm wishing you people all the loveliness and happiness in the world <3. Its a thing , my thing :3 Godspeed :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hydroid is the worst kind of CC as it actually slows down the team's time-to-kill. Worse yet, it doesn't even make the enemies easier to hit. This means that not only our headshots impossible but you waste ammo trying to even target the multitude of enemies that are being flailed around for 30+ seconds at a time. Anyone that thinks Hydroid is great CC either only plays at low levels or has no idea what CC is supposed to offer... control. I prefer Tempest Barrage over Tentacle Swarm for CC. Use Narrow Minded to extend the duration of TB and reduce the area. It still covers a large enough area to block the enemy approach but each shot will land within a tight enough grouping as to successfully hold them there. As more enemies pile in they will all stay in one place ready to be blasted. It's also cheaper then TS. Actually, I prefer TS with Narrow Minded as well since it gives a tighter cluster of tentacles that is better at preventing stray enemies passing instead of having a few tentacles over on the other side of the room doing nothing. Narrow Minded also makes Tidal Surge take you stupid distances. Basicly you want Narrow Minded in Hydroid. Although I miss how it used to affect Undertow, it was great for giving me time to drink some tea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince_Seal Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 To me, CC never meant "KILL IT ALL REALLY FAST", it meant "Impede and hold up the enemy as much as possible wherever needed, giving your teammates some breathing room." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooptaco Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 TL;DR: MAKE IT EASY, DE! EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EVERYTHING AS SOON AS THEY WANT IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouvo Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 obviously not like you guys....I hate Hydroid and Zephyr's CCs, because it throws everything everywhere....lockdown cc or static locks fine, but flinging things all over the place the enemies and the loot....so annoying....of course I main melee now so that may very well be why.....but still so annoying to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptimumBow0 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) TL;DR: MAKE IT EASY POSSIBLE, DE! EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE CHANCE TO EARN EVERYTHING AS SOON AS THEY WANT IT! FAIRLY! No need to thank me, just doing my job. Edit: Despite how weird it sounds in my head: Well spoken, SomeDude. Edited June 10, 2014 by OptimumBow0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 TL;DR: MAKE IT EASY, DE! EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EVERYTHING AS SOON AS THEY WANT IT! I didnt say make it easy, i simply said that this trend may continue for the next frame, and that if everyones out there farming, whos gonna go enjoy the game? Godspeed and no offense intended :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuestenjung Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) and for more experienced players, the result almost always is farm squads, a team of Four Nekros players heading to Casta for 15 waves,simply to desecrate prosecutors. If you were more experienced then you would know that 1 Nekros is more than enough for a small map like Casta, and why would you do only 15 waves if there are prosecutors comin on and on? Btw. I don´t think that this "trend" will continue with the next frame(s), we have 2 planets without a boss. Edited June 10, 2014 by Kuestenjung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenzo4 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hydroid is the worst kind of CC as it actually slows down the team's time-to-kill. Worse yet, it doesn't even make the enemies easier to hit. This means that not only are headshots impossible but you waste ammo trying to even target the multitude of enemies that are being flailed around for 30+ seconds at a time. Anyone that thinks Hydroid is great CC either only plays at low levels or has no idea what CC is supposed to offer... control. ok dont call it CC call it lockdown, because it prevents them from doing things on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouvo Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If you were more experienced then you would know that 1 Nekros is more than enough for a small map like Casta, and why would you do only 15 waves if there are prosecutors comin on and on? Btw. I don´t think that this "trend" will continue with the next frame(s), we have 2 planets without a boss. yeah this....just need one nekros...i went as valkyr and melee'd, went to 30 waves each time and each time 2 delta beacons at least (plus tons of others...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Comment removed Edited June 11, 2014 by Somedude1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) For reference, CC should not make enemies harder to kill, ever. It should control the enemies in such a way that you can deal with them as needed. Traditional roots are still some of the best CCs because of this. A good CC effect should either control them, Rhino's Stomp or Vauban's Bastille/Vortex, or disable them, Loki's Radial Disarm or Excalibur's Radial Blind. Knockdown effects make this much more difficult as does ragdolling enemies for an extended period of time. Undertow is perhaps the best CC ability that Hydroid has since you can potentially trap enemies and release them once the team is ready to deal with them. Too many Hydroid players instead use Undertow to prevent teammates from killing enemies and release them when there is no benefit. Tentacle Swarm is almost always bad since you have no control over what it attacks or where it locks down (as Katinka mentioned, Narrow Minded is a requirement for any type of control). Tempest Barrage causes knockdown which is extremely situational since knocking down entire areas without being able to target specific enemies is literally hit or miss. EDIT: For reference, Hydroid in a survival will almost always make the run end sooner than it should have. The only exception is if using TB to knockdown and get close and then UT to gather, then using explosive traps to clear upon release. TS is almost always a bad thing and is mostly pointless like Zephyr's Tornado. Edited June 10, 2014 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuestenjung Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Im just telling you what everyone else says they do on forums, in region etc, I've never said this is what i do sheesh :/ If you meant it this way then I´m sorry but it doesn´t sound so for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 If you meant it this way then I´m sorry but it doesn´t sound so for me. NP i dont think hat you think im stupid :3, unless you do, in which case imma go cry in a corner :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouvo Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 NP i dont think hat you think im stupid :3, unless you do, in which case imma go cry in a corner :'( *shrugs.... "internet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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