Oberon Rework (True Paladin)!

[(PSN)oracle-ryuu]

His original Renewal gave people a weaker version of quick thinking.

DE "fixed" that because to them it's functional immortality.

interesting, but it doesn't really address that his renewal is..... currently underwhelming. one or more of his abilities still need a buff. or maybe they can bring back that quick thinking mechanic, since they changed the whole immortality mod thing anyway?

[HavocWolf]

To this i Agree-

 

Havoc wolfs concepts aren't bad, but it would require a lot of work, and thats work the Digital extremes will "probably" not ever do.

 

Moderius's approach is a lot simpler to handle, making it a lot more approachable. havoc wolf is right, in that oberon's abilities need to better reflect that of a paladins, but lets try to use tools he has (moderius) to achieve that

 

ABILITY 1: SMITE

 

Whats wrong with this power? well for one its useless almost right off the bat, let alone at later levels. all it does is some moderate damage to one target,  and send out non-tracking orbs that may-or may not, slightly inconvenience other enemies. ow can it be made better? i know what you're all thinking, but no.. its not a damage buff. but tracking orbs would help it be better. instead what we really want here is UTILITY, a function that makes it useful in ALL situations. something like a debuff or a stun. For smite, allowing the additional orbs to home in on targets and detonate on impact, causing moderate damage and an AOE/Knockdown/stun, would be extremely practical, especially when enemies get tougher. remember damage isn't key here, seeing as most damage abilities fall off later anyways. giving smite these utilities would help Oberon's survivability in large group situations by letting him control the mobs around him, which benefits everyone really.

 

Ability 2: HALLOWED GROUND

 

now this one is an interesting idea, but again, minor damage over time is barely useful, though it does work relatively well early on. what can make this one better? still not damage...again think UTILITY! but first , what does hallowed ground do? it creates a field of holy fire/energy on the ground that damages enemies who stand in it. pretty straightforward, and it sounds good on paper, but in practice, ....well, lets put it this way. how useful is a small patch on the ground in a fast pace space ninja game where the enemies rarely decide to stay put for very long and probably end up getting killed before they even have the chance to step on your holy patch? exactly. don't misunderstand, HALLOWED GROUND STILL HAS APPLICATIONS! especially as it can be spammed! you can literally lay down as many as you want at a time,(I am not sure if this compiles the damage though). this really shines in defense missions or bottleneck points. but even then, the  enemies won't be standing there for long.and receiving two of three ticks of damage ain't gonna ruin any Grineers day. solution? ADD LONG LASTING EFFECTS! a proc for the ability would be GREAT! something like radiation, which would confuse enemies and turn them against each other! this would make it a great nix-esque trap. OR perhaps the field trap can slow enemies the stand on it down, forcing them to stay on the patch longer and receive more damage. this would help it TRULY become a bottleneck trap! the only other thing i could suggest for it at the moment is that perhaps allies that stand in the trap receive a long lasting buff, or heal while in it, but maybe we should save that for something else....lets say...RENEWAL?

 

Ability 3: RENEWAL

 

THIS SORELY NEED A BUFF! theres no other way to put it! currently this heals for anywhere from "not a lot" to " Darnit, I died before it could help me!" so, lets talk buffs. first off all the base heal time and how much it heals for. heals for 100 health over 15 seconds....ok that nice i guess for beginners.. lets take it to maxed. 200 health  over 10 seconds? .....ok lets face....how much is 200 health end game....and over ten seconds? what help is that? you might as well just pop a team health restore and be done with it! this needs to be rearranged so that its not just "slightly helpful"...which is pushing it at any time unless you're out of combat, and who's gonna wait around for tens seconds to be healed for only 200 health? NOT ME I CAN TELL YAH THAT MUCH! how can we make it better? how does it actually work? well, lets say you increased power strength. then it would heal for more health over the same amount of time. increasing durability will actually LESSEN the time it takes to heal for the same amount. thats...a little weird...SO! lets change it! the same basic concepts will apply except they're be rearranged, so power strength will increase the amount of health healed, but by a "per second" basis, not and "overall" basis. next, duration should actually just make it last longer, like you would think it would. this means that power strength means more health for short term, and duration would mean the same per second health for longer, put them together, a lot more health, a lot faster, a lot longer. still, something is missing, its still not going to be terribly effective if your enemies are going to shoot you in the face and you take any (or more) damage than you heal for. INTRODUCING THE BUFF! instead of just healing, this could add an armor buff! or a speed buff! .....OR BOTH! ..well...maybe just one, and if i had to choose one it would be Armor, leave the speed buff to Volt. this would help Oberon be the tanky healer he WAS PROMISED TO BE. seriously his armor is literally average, but an armor buff could fix that! maybe at max rank, renewal can add 50% of Oberon's current armor to all affected allies...yes including himself. I'm not going to rag on the orb travel speed too much.....TOO much. there does need to be a balance after all. but maybe make it faster than loki at least? that way it will EVENTUALLY get there. finally, the application of Renewal. why do i need to be hurt in order for this to work? i need to be able to PRE-EMPTIVELY apply this ability, not get hurt, realize im hurt, then spend 2 seconds taking damage while casting a spell thats going to heal me for the first hits a took...in TEN SECONDS. the ability should be applied, whether or not you have taken damage, especially if you add the armor buff as suggested, because who wants to get hurt to apply a buff that is supposed to help PREVENT you from getting hurt! RAISE YOUR HANDS!!! anyways, onto the final volley.

 

ABILITY 4: RECKONING

 

now...this ability is...actually ok? yeah, it really DOESN'T need to be changed.....BUT! here are some possible changes since we're at it anyways. for one, the health orbs. ok, i get this is a primarily offensive ability, but if your gonna give it a healing aspect, them maybe you make it heal for a percentage of the damage done? but it would only heal allies within the range of the enemies being damaged. so to make it clear, reckoning still smacks people down for a slam dunk. but now, allies, (and the casting oberon) who are in range of the enemies being damaged, will received a percentage of the damage dealt as health. that means oberon WOULD NOT receive  health from all the damaged enemies, only enemies that are close enough to him when he casts it (cause lets be fair, oberon needs a buff, but not THAT big a buff). it IS a little complex, but to give him a percentage of damage dealt from ALL the enemies? trust me when i say there would be a surplus of max efficiency, max ranged oberons out there, spamming away, and thats only really fun for the one spamming. if not that, then maybe health orbs drop based on how much damage is done, and not depending on whether or not the enemy dies, (and even then its only a chance).

 

so thats my rant/suggestion. perhaps in terms of base stats they could give him 90 armor but I'm not going to harp on that idea. i'd like to know what you guys think, and if you like it maybe we could get Digital Extremes to consider some, if not all, the changes.

Well oberon requires a lot of work to be good. I think in stead of half-assing something and starting from scratch is a lot better for oberon. I just think that he needs a complete rework.

 

Plus, my Divine Spear idea adds a new mechanic to the game! So there's that

Edited July 26, 2014 by HavocWolf

[HavocWolf]

interesting, but it doesn't really address that his renewal is..... currently underwhelming. one or more of his abilities still need a buff. or maybe they can bring back that quick thinking mechanic, since they changed the whole immortality mod thing anyway?

I think my idea for renewal (Healing Light) makes his heal something worth while

[HavocWolf]

I personally think Oberon should get a big bump in Armor, and have his Renewal just grant a portion of his armor to himself and allies for a period of time. His Reckoning should knock enemies down and slow them for a degrading duration (the visual effect could use a rework, too) and increase the chance to drop an energy orb for affected enemies (health orbs were redundant with his heal anyway)

 

I think Hallowed Ground could stand to be something defensive. Cover, a bullet-deflecting shield, whatever. I hate Hallowed Ground as it is. Smite is also lackluster, and could stand to do something additional, like blind the target for a duration. Also the targeting is awful for Smite.

 

Ignoring Hallowed Ground, because of the previously mentioned hatred, that would at least make Oberon tanky, have some team-oriented utility, and some CC. Also I hate Hallowed Ground.

smite and hollowed ground need to be removed, they are lack luster and really dont do much.

 

Do you think Smite should be changed to my idea for smite, or divine spear?

Edited July 26, 2014 by HavocWolf

[011100110110000101101101]

smite and hollowed ground need to be removed, they are lack luster and really dont do much.

 

Do you think Smite should be changed to my idea for smite, or divine spear?

All the spears!

 

Smite reminds me of the thing "Evil" Vor does.

[Moderius]

Well oberon requires a lot of work to be good. I think in stead of half-assing something and starting from scratch is a lot better for oberon.

 

See, you can't just start from scratch. That's bad (and lazy) design. You need to work around the construct that exists. Some players may like aspects of Oberon, so you can't just pull his core out from underneath him, because again, he's a whole different frame at that point. You're not fixing Oberon, you're replacing him.

 

That's why my idea for a fix revolves around tweaking existing abilities and adding effects that create some synergy. More base armor. Buffing a percentage of Armor with teammates with Renewal. A blind on Smite. A minor slow on Reckoning. The same tools exist, but have better function.

[HavocWolf]

See, you can't just start from scratch. That's bad (and lazy) design. You need to work around the construct that exists. Some players may like aspects of Oberon, so you can't just pull his core out from underneath him, because again, he's a whole different frame at that point. You're not fixing Oberon, you're replacing him.

 

That's why my idea for a fix revolves around tweaking existing abilities and adding effects that create some synergy. More base armor. Buffing a percentage of Armor with teammates with Renewal. A blind on Smite. A minor slow on Reckoning. The same tools exist, but have better function.

No? Starting from scratch is not bad nor lazy, if something doesn't work you can either rework its current form, or start a new. Either way it's not lazy. I just think that he should get a complete rework and thats just me. You do not HAVE TO work around the constructs that exist. Also, from what info i have gathered, NO ONE likes his current load out and PREFERED his 1 AND 2 to be completely removed and redesigned. 

 

My abilities have also synergy with each other. The movement speed buff with his 2 helps u and others stay in range for his auras, while the armor bonus to you and your teammates allows you to get more health from the aura.

[Moderius]

No? Starting from scratch is not bad nor lazy, if something doesn't work you can either rework its current form, or start a new. Either way it's not lazy. I just think that he should get a complete rework and thats just me. You do not HAVE TO work around the constructs that exist. Also, from what info i have gathered, NO ONE likes his current load out and PREFERED his 1 AND 2 to be completely removed and redesigned. 

 

My abilities have also synergy with each other. The movement speed buff with his 2 helps u and others stay in range for his auras, while the armor bonus to you and your teammates allows you to get more health from the aura.

Again. That is not a fix. That's a different frame. You're completely ignoring players who like some aspects of Oberon but wish he was more effective.

 

When you fix a car, you do not just go and get a new car. Anyone can think of different "paladin-themed" abilities. This forum is full of "reworks" that just scrap everything. But what kind of changes are made in this game, really? The changes to Nova's MP, Volt's shield, Valkyr's Hysteria, Ash's Bladestorm. Tweaks. Adjustments. Good design is making effective change within the existing system. Scrapping an ability altogether is only when absolutely necessary.

 

Trying to do anything else just guts the Warframe for players who like it. 

[HavocWolf]

Again. That is not a fix. That's a different frame. You're completely ignoring players who like some aspects of Oberon but wish he was more effective.

 

When you fix a car, you do not just go and get a new car. Anyone can think of different "paladin-themed" abilities. This forum is full of "reworks" that just scrap everything. But what kind of changes are made in this game, really? The changes to Nova's MP, Volt's shield, Valkyr's Hysteria, Ash's Bladestorm. Tweaks. Adjustments. Good design is making effective change within the existing system. Scrapping an ability altogether is only when absolutely necessary.

 

Trying to do anything else just guts the Warframe for players who like it. 

This is a REWORK. The rework also FIXES his problems. I'm not ignoring either. They have every right to voice their opinion, but no one has said that this is a bad rework. and good design is not ONLY making changes in the existing system... and scraping an ability can happen when ever it is either wanted or needed.

 

The majority of players want his 1 and 2 completely removed and reworked... It's like if 1 player doesn't like a change, but 99 others do, are you not gonna make the change because 1 person is unhappy? Or will you leave it the way it is and there is only 1 person happy while 99 others aren't.

 

Please let us get back to the OP. I don't want this post to become full of arguments. I'm not saying your idea is bad or wrong, I'm just saying I don't agree with it. If you believe strongly in what your believe, go make a thread on it.

Edited July 26, 2014 by HavocWolf

[vaugahn]

I like the ideas for 1 and 2, but renewal and reckoning are in dire need of complete overhaul. Both powers are nigh-useless even at low levels, and even more so at higher levels. 

[HavocWolf]

I like the ideas for 1 and 2, but renewal and reckoning are in dire need of complete overhaul. Both powers are nigh-useless even at low levels, and even more so at higher levels. 

They can be fixed with damage buffs. In terms of renewal, i do provide an overhaul (Healing Light).

[vaugahn]

They can be fixed with damage buffs. In terms of renewal, i do provide an overhaul (Healing Light).

 

A damage buff isn't the answer to reckoning. Right now it does nothing a well-modded melee weapon can't also do, and arguably some melee weapons do it better. That ability needs to go away completely and be replaced with something else.

 

As for renewal, the armor buffs would be nice, but they need to change it so it doesn't have a travel time (you can literally outrun it) and lessen the heal factor of it so he doesn't directly compete with trinity. It would be nice if it could clear statuses, or something else like that.

[Moderius]

This is a REWORK. The rework also FIXES his problems. I'm not ignoring either. They have every right to voice their opinion, but no one has said that this is a bad rework. and good design is not ONLY making changes in the existing system... and scraping an ability can happen when ever it is either wanted or needed.

 

The majority of players want his 1 and 2 completely removed and reworked... It's like if 1 player doesn't like a change, but 99 others do, are you not gonna make the change because 1 person is unhappy? Or will you leave it the way it is and there is only 1 person happy while 99 others aren't.

 

Okay let's just put a stop to this.

 

 

but no one has said that this is a bad rework

It's a bad rework.

 

 and scraping an ability can happen when ever it is either wanted or needed.

Completely ignoring the method that DE has been handling changes to Warframes thus far.

 

The majority of players want his 1 and 2 completely removed and reworked

Show me exactly where you get this statistic.

 

It's like if 1 player doesn't like a change, but 99 others do, are you not gonna make the change because 1 person is unhappy? Or will you leave it the way it is and there is only 1 person happy while 99 others aren't.

Flagrant hyperbole. Impossibly binary. And Oberon is not meant to appeal to everyone.

 

Please let us get back to the OP. I don't want this post to become full of arguments. I'm not saying your idea is bad or wrong, I'm just saying I don't agree with it. If you believe strongly in what your believe, go make a thread on it.

I'm not going to make a thread about a topic that already exists. Or are you saying this thread is only about your Oberon rework, not reworking Oberon? Somebody else has ideas, they need to make another thread, why? Because you "own" this thread?

 

And again. You are making suggestions that will never be implemented. You are not working within the system. You are just putting the name "Oberon" on a different paladin theme. You don't adhere to the careful method of degrees that DE uses to tweak and change their content. If you wanted to "fix" Oberon, really fix him, you would suggest something that preserves how he is and makes it better.

 

This forum is full of "rework" threads that are nothing but different frames with a similar "theme" using an existing name. These threads are flights of fancy and nothing more, they will never really be constructive. DE isn't going to scrap a concept from the ground up because you start from square 1 balancing that, all over again, with no guarantees that it will even work better. But tweaking an existing concept, making a change to a setup that already exists, you can definitively improve, because the value of the abilities and their interactions is already known.

 

That is something you need to understand. Something a lot of people on the forums don't. That making small tweaks to the existing builds and concepts means fewer new variables. It means a more reliable improvement. It means it's easier to predict for balance.

 

If you really want to make Oberon better, you should be figuring out how to have a small adjustment make a big difference.

[vaugahn]

Show me exactly where you get this statistic.

 

This is actually true...except he leaves out that most players also want his 3 and 4 gone.

[Moderius]

This is actually true...except he leaves out that most players also want his 3 and 4 gone.

 

Show me these statistics. If it's "true". I hate Hallowed Ground, but only because it's useless. So give it a use. Make it slow enemies. Make it grant armor and healing while standing on it. Make it less ugly and more useful. 

 

You didn't read my previous post. There is a reason "slash and burn" remakes never bear fruit.

[vaugahn]

Show me these statistics. If it's "true". I hate Hallowed Ground, but only because it's useless. So give it a use. Make it slow enemies. Make it grant armor and healing while standing on it. Make it less ugly and more useful. 

 

You didn't read my previous post. There is a reason "slash and burn" remakes never bear fruit.

 

Well, I don't have a statistic, but feel free to read literally any thread about Oberon.

 

And I'm not a fan of scorched earth either, but those abilities need changes at a fundamental level to make them competitive at even low levels. They don't necessarily have to be removed, but serious alterations to their behaviors are required. 

[Moderius]

Well, I don't have a statistic, but feel free to read literally any thread about Oberon.

 

And I'm not a fan of scorched earth either, but those abilities need changes at a fundamental level to make them competitive at even low levels. They don't necessarily have to be removed, but serious alterations to their behaviors are required. 

 

The alterations don't even have to be very serious. Adding a blind to Smite would give it a lot of utility, making it an effective CC/melee damage booster against a single target. Hallowed ground could do....anything, really. Restore energy and health, slow enemies, whatever.

 

But again. Changes have to be made in degrees. Adding a slow to Oberon's kit could make Hallowed Ground more worthwhile. A change has to be made to one ability, that makes it work better with the other abilities. Right now his entire kit does nothing together.

 

I've come up with a few ideas to improve Oberon's kit overall without changing it. It's not impossible to work with his existing abilities. It's just harder to. But fixing a Warframe is anything but easy.

[vaugahn]

The alterations don't even have to be very serious. Adding a blind to Smite would give it a lot of utility, making it an effective CC/melee damage booster against a single target. Hallowed ground could do....anything, really. Restore energy and health, slow enemies, whatever.

 

But again. Changes have to be made in degrees. Adding a slow to Oberon's kit could make Hallowed Ground more worthwhile. A change has to be made to one ability, that makes it work better with the other abilities. Right now his entire kit does nothing together.

 

I've come up with a few ideas to improve Oberon's kit overall without changing it. It's not impossible to work with his existing abilities. It's just harder to. But fixing a Warframe is anything but easy.

 

I agree with all of those. The only ability I want a total rework on is reckoning, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts. 

[HavocWolf]

Okay let's just put a stop to this.

 

 

It's a bad rework.

 

Completely ignoring the method that DE has been handling changes to Warframes thus far.

 

Show me exactly where you get this statistic.

 

Flagrant hyperbole. Impossibly binary. And Oberon is not meant to appeal to everyone.

 

I'm not going to make a thread about a topic that already exists. Or are you saying this thread is only about your Oberon rework, not reworking Oberon? Somebody else has ideas, they need to make another thread, why? Because you "own" this thread?

 

And again. You are making suggestions that will never be implemented. You are not working within the system. You are just putting the name "Oberon" on a different paladin theme. You don't adhere to the careful method of degrees that DE uses to tweak and change their content. If you wanted to "fix" Oberon, really fix him, you would suggest something that preserves how he is and makes it better.

 

This forum is full of "rework" threads that are nothing but different frames with a similar "theme" using an existing name. These threads are flights of fancy and nothing more, they will never really be constructive. DE isn't going to scrap a concept from the ground up because you start from square 1 balancing that, all over again, with no guarantees that it will even work better. But tweaking an existing concept, making a change to a setup that already exists, you can definitively improve, because the value of the abilities and their interactions is already known.

 

That is something you need to understand. Something a lot of people on the forums don't. That making small tweaks to the existing builds and concepts means fewer new variables. It means a more reliable improvement. It means it's easier to predict for balance.

 

If you really want to make Oberon better, you should be figuring out how to have a small adjustment make a big difference.

 

Okay let's just put a stop to this.

 

 

It's a bad rework.

 

Completely ignoring the method that DE has been handling changes to Warframes thus far.

 

Show me exactly where you get this statistic.

 

Flagrant hyperbole. Impossibly binary. And Oberon is not meant to appeal to everyone.

 

I'm not going to make a thread about a topic that already exists. Or are you saying this thread is only about your Oberon rework, not reworking Oberon? Somebody else has ideas, they need to make another thread, why? Because you "own" this thread?

 

And again. You are making suggestions that will never be implemented. You are not working within the system. You are just putting the name "Oberon" on a different paladin theme. You don't adhere to the careful method of degrees that DE uses to tweak and change their content. If you wanted to "fix" Oberon, really fix him, you would suggest something that preserves how he is and makes it better.

 

This forum is full of "rework" threads that are nothing but different frames with a similar "theme" using an existing name. These threads are flights of fancy and nothing more, they will never really be constructive. DE isn't going to scrap a concept from the ground up because you start from square 1 balancing that, all over again, with no guarantees that it will even work better. But tweaking an existing concept, making a change to a setup that already exists, you can definitively improve, because the value of the abilities and their interactions is already known.

 

That is something you need to understand. Something a lot of people on the forums don't. That making small tweaks to the existing builds and concepts means fewer new variables. It means a more reliable improvement. It means it's easier to predict for balance.

 

If you really want to make Oberon better, you should be figuring out how to have a small adjustment make a big difference.

Just get off my thread. I'm not gonna argue with you. This is MY take on Oberon and what should be done with him. NOT YOURS. Also, it is not a bad rework. You just don't like the way I am doing things. You don't like it? Go somewhere else. You have no idea what DE will do. You DO NOT need to work with his current abilities. You CAN but your do not HAVE to. Now get off my thread. Your an annoyance, and I am done with you.

Edited July 27, 2014 by HavocWolf

[HavocWolf]

A damage buff isn't the answer to reckoning. Right now it does nothing a well-modded melee weapon can't also do, and arguably some melee weapons do it better. That ability needs to go away completely and be replaced with something else.

 

As for renewal, the armor buffs would be nice, but they need to change it so it doesn't have a travel time (you can literally outrun it) and lessen the heal factor of it so he doesn't directly compete with trinity. It would be nice if it could clear statuses, or something else like that.

Maybe not, but that was just my take on it. I think it is a good source of crowd control, and it could stand for a damage buff and a chance to drop some energy orbs as i suggested. But thats just me. I turned renewal into an aura and the range of the aura can be extended. Again these are just my opinions.

[HavocWolf]

This is actually true...except he leaves out that most players also want his 3 and 4 gone.

Most players want 1 and 2 gone and want 3 to be more effective and the same with 4. At least that is what i have gotten with my data i have recorded. But maybe i didn't ask enough people (I asked all day in council, and council members are constantly getting on and offline through out the world, so i think i did a pretty good job). My new aura healing ability kinda is an overhaul and is different from his 3 so his 3 is technically gone. and i couldnt think of an alternative to his 4. If you have an idea for a new 4, please tell me. Ill put it on the forum and give u credit for it! :)

[Yousho]

It's a bad rework.

 

I disagree. Yay for subjectivity! 

At-least, this idea is better than the current incarnation of him, in my opinion. 

I like the 'idea' of his heal, I just wish it actually did something and didn't have a travel time. 

What if it were 'Burst Of Healing - HOT - Burst Of Healing'? 

'The Dunk' is fine. At-least, it looks, sounds and feels fine. 

His AoE feels weak, looks weak, is weak and probably should be something else. I don't like the idea of a small, stationary AoE in this game. 

As for 'Smite'...well...I've always believed the first ability should be a generator, not a consumer, but whadda I know? 

[Yousho]

Show me these statistics. If it's "true". I hate Hallowed Ground, but only because it's useless. So give it a use. Make it slow enemies. Make it grant armor and healing while standing on it. Make it less ugly and more useful. 

 

You didn't read my previous post. There is a reason "slash and burn" remakes never bear fruit.

I think there's a bit of a difference between 'Taking away the core' and 'not pruning'.

Honestly, you could probably change anything that isn't his 4 and he'd still be Oberon.  

[HavocWolf]

I disagree. Yay for subjectivity! 

At-least, this idea is better than the current incarnation of him, in my opinion. 

I like the 'idea' of his heal, I just wish it actually did something and didn't have a travel time. 

What if it were 'Burst Of Healing - HOT - Burst Of Healing'? 

'The Dunk' is fine. At-least, it looks, sounds and feels fine. 

His AoE feels weak, looks weak, is weak and probably should be something else. I don't like the idea of a small, stationary AoE in this game. 

As for 'Smite'...well...I've always believed the first ability should be a generator, not a consumer, but whadda I know? 

I 100% agree! 

[Thaumatos]

Oberon is a Druid.

 

They just got confused because they don't play traditional RPGs...so they tried to talk like Blizzard.