At One Point Or Another, De Is Forcing Me To Buy Outrageously Expensive Platinum. - My Only Feeling As A Freshly New Player.

[carbondragon]

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the platinum system if the prices weren't so totally borked. Most weapons or frames are around 200 plat on the market, which would require about $15 at regular prices. That is not a good price at all. Cosmetics are slightly better, at maybe $5 per piece, but that's still expensive for something as minor as that. The marketplace helps somewhat, but only for the veterans who already have the ability to grind for the valuable mods and blueprints. New players have no choice but to wait for a 75% coupon (which is so rare as to be not even worth mentioning), suck it up and pay at the normal outrageous prices, or not pay and try to play with the extreme disadvantage of a lack of equipment slots.

 

Okay, first off, $15 is not that expensive for a F2P. League of Legends being the example I normally go to, let's use it. One Champion, upon release, can cost as much as 975 Riot Points. That's $7 and some change. There are over 100 Champions in that game, so you're looking at $700 to own all of them if you bought them all. Plus we have far fewer and if you're playing competitive LoL, you NEED them all. It only costs $200 something for all the Warframes. But paying for either in real cash is silly since you can farm any of them in both games.

 

On top of that, though even I complain about it, farming bosses is a GREAT way to get mods. Each boss has 1 rare mod that they will usually drop within 10-15 runs (which is about the time it takes to get all the Warframe pieces from them, with moderate luck) and many of those rare mods will solve OP's issue of not being able to get very far in the game with his current loadout.

[arisaka]

I seriously think that something like wep/frame slots should be given to you over time via mastery level. Maybe starting from MR2 or 3, you get 1 frame slot every 2 ranks, while you would get 1 wep slot every rank starting at MR2 or 3.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I seriously think that something like wep/frame slots should be given to you over time via mastery level. Maybe starting from MR2 or 3, you get 1 frame slot every 2 ranks, while you would get 1 wep slot every rank starting at MR2 or 3.

Yeah, that's something I'd like, Every rank gives you a weapon slot, and every five ranks give you a warframe slot. That really isn't all that much to ask for.

[Acos]

To be blunt, get a job. 

Harsh? Kind of. 

But think of it like this; you aren't actually contributing anything to the game so why should you get to complain about what it is giving to you for free? Nevermind that there are plenty of avenues for you to venture down to acquire the things you want without ever paying a dime. You don't contribute anything to the development of the team, so you aren't actually that important to the longevity of the game. 

Even a broke 17 year old can mow a lawn. 

[xethier]

I seriously think that something like wep/frame slots should be given to you over time via mastery level. Maybe starting from MR2 or 3, you get 1 frame slot every 2 ranks, while you would get 1 wep slot every rank starting at MR2 or 3.

 

Yeah, that's something I'd like, Every rank gives you a weapon slot, and every five ranks give you a warframe slot. That really isn't all that much to ask for.

 

i disagree. slots (in all their forms) are the core of DE's profit. (that and potatoes) asking a player to trade for the platinum or buy the platinum directly isn't too much at all. keep in mind that trading for platinum and buying a slot is still a *purchase* from DE's perspective as the platinum had to be purchased to be traded.

 

i understand how both of you feel on this, but i also bow to reality. and forcing a player to acquire platinum for slots isn't unreasonable.

[InForWar]

To be blunt, get a job. 

Harsh? Kind of. 

But think of it like this; you aren't actually contributing anything to the game so why should you get to complain about what it is giving to you for free? Nevermind that there are plenty of avenues for you to venture down to acquire the things you want without ever paying a dime. You don't contribute anything to the development of the team, so you aren't actually that important to the longevity of the game. 

Even a broke 17 year old can mow a lawn. 

And i don't have the ability to pay. my parents consider this "stupid" and will never use their paypal accounts for me even if i give them money.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

And i don't have the ability to pay. my parents consider this "stupid" and will never use their paypal accounts for me even if i give them money.

That sounds like a personal issue.

[InForWar]

That sounds like a personal issue.

I'm quite convinced that 90% of the parents who have nothing to do with gaming will give that response.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I'm quite convinced that 90% of the parents who have nothing to do with gaming will give that response.

Doesn't mean it isn't a personal issue. DE is a company that needs to make money, if you truly expect it to be free, it'd be a flash game. or horribly, horribly infested with ads.

It really isn't something to come here to complain about.

[InForWar]

Doesn't mean it isn't a personal issue. DE is a company that needs to make money, if you truly expect it to be free, it'd be a flash game. or horribly, horribly infested with ads.

It really isn't something to come here to complain about.

It most definitely is. they need to find a different way to get money, other then interrogating new players. 

make paying more worthwhile and not just slots. 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

It most definitely is. they need to find a different way to get money, other then interrogating new players. 

make paying more worthwhile and not just slots. 

That's the beginning of a Pay2Win situation. 

[InForWar]

That's the beginning of a Pay2Win situation. 

This game is already pay to win. you get platinum and buy all the parts with complete ease. less interrogation should do a lot.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

This game is already pay to win. you get platinum and buy all the parts with complete ease. less interrogation should do a lot.

You don't understand what pay2win is. Convenience is not the same as P2W.

[InForWar]

You don't understand what pay2win is. Convenience is not the same as P2W.

Oh, i don't? pardon me but i think i do. 

This game is completely pay to win.

Buy some platinum, go to the store and purchase all the weapons. or frames or mods or what ever you want, or either go to the trading tab and get it for cheaper.

I think you don't know what's pay to win.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Oh, i don't? pardon me but i think i do. 

This game is completely pay to win.

Buy some platinum, go to the store and purchase all the weapons. or frames or mods or what ever you want, or either go to the trading tab and get it for cheaper.

I think you don't know what's pay to win.

Pay to Win is the ability to buy gear that is better than all other gear, without it being obtainable any other way, which makes the game very unbalanced as it favors the person who payed, while the person who hadn't can never achieve this.

 

Warframe isn't this. Buying all the weapons is faster, sure, but other people can get them too without spending a dime.

So, I know now that you don't know what Pay to Win is.

[SoulEchelon]

Oh, i don't? pardon me but i think i do. 

This game is completely pay to win.

Buy some platinum, go to the store and purchase all the weapons. or frames or mods or what ever you want, or either go to the trading tab and get it for cheaper.

I think you don't know what's pay to win.

 

Nope. You're 100% completely wrong. And here's why.

 

A: "Pay2Win" is an umbrella term normally meant to describe a game that has items in their cash shop that provides stat bonuses free players cannot obtain in any way, shape, or form. If you had looked through the marketplace a little more thoroughly, you would have seen that all of the warframes and almost all of the weapons that can be purchased via platinum also have blueprints that can be bought via credits. Of course you'll need to farm the materials needed to craft, and there IS a crafting time, but all of it can be obtained legitimately and without the need to buy any plat at all. The rest can be found in Clan research. Seeing as there are tons of clans, it would not take a newcomer long to join one (or create their own if they so wish) to obtain these research weapons/warframes. I've yet to buy -any- weapon or -any- warframe. A friend did gift me some plat awhile back to get Valkyr, but I think of that more as a friendly present than anything else since literally a week later I had farmed all her parts anyway.

 

B: "Pay2Win" is also meant to describe a game that can literally only be "won" by purchasing money. This, as well, is totally false when it comes to Warframe. You can participate in all events, go through every mission, go into the void, and craft any and all weapons without the use of plat. The whole entire game is open to you.

 

C: Prime warframes/weapons cannot be obtained in the marketplace. They can be traded, but what's stopping you exactly from....doing the same? Gain a few mastery ranks, power up your weapons and warframes, do a few Survivals/Defenses to get some keys, and head to the void. Or, if you found a rare mod or two, sell those. You act like you can only BUY these items. You can SELL them too, y'know. Bam - free plat for you just for playing the game. Not exactly Pay2Win now is it?

 

I already know your rebuttal. "But what about catalysts/reactors and slots?"

 

Slots are not needed to complete this game. There are 8 slots available at the start. That is enough to procure 3 primary, 3 secondary, 2 melee, or whatever variety you prefer. 2 warframe slots is a bit tight to be sure, but that doesn't mean it's "wrong". With those many slots, you can easily get through the whole game. Pay2win does not exist.

 

But sure. You want more variety. You want to be able to not have to delete your weapons/frames to make way for new ones (Which is a viable thing to do. I did it before. Everyone does. You had to do it too in other games I imagine. It's not that big of a deal. But I digress...). That "expensive" plat can give you quite a few weapon slots. 5 bucks = 75 plat = 12 weapon slots or 3 warframe slots. That's not alot of money, and thanks to the trade system, with just a little bit of homework you can easily make enough plat to buy all the slots you wanted.

 

Catalysts/Reactors? There are multiple ways of obtaining these that is not from cash.

 

1. Developer livestreams. Every other week there's a dev livestream on Friday. (They give out free plat during this time as well in fact). At the end of the livestream, they make a special "potato" alert - either a reactor or a catalyst...or sometimes both. Last Friday they gave both.

 

2. From random alerts. There is a bit of luck involved, but they do pop up, and it is a viable way of getting them. There are many different third party programs and sites that follow alerts. You can either use them or don't. It's up to you. My current favorite needs an update, but I will post a site at the bottom of this post that will be beneficial to you.

 

3. From Invasions. They're rare, but they do pop up just like in alerts. Just be sure to hop on it if you see them.

 

Here's the site I was talking about: http://deathsnacks.com/wf/ Great site to have up as much as possible. Just click its tab once in awhile to see what's going on. See an alert/invasion you want to join? Go for it.

 

TL;DR - There is not enough pay2win going on that would make this game pay2win. The person you told was wrong was actually quite right. Read my whole post to find out why.

Edited June 24, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Pay to Win is the ability to buy gear that is better than all other gear, without it being obtainable any other way, which makes the game very unbalanced as it favors the person who payed, while the person who hadn't can never achieve this.

 

Warframe isn't this. Buying all the weapons is faster, sure, but other people can get them too without spending a dime.

So, I know now that you don't know what Pay to Win is.

 

If you know what pay to win is, then you know it's not a black and white definition that you just gave and you should know it. 

 

Pay to win, is simply the ability to buy power. How it comes about is neither here nor there. The most obvious one is walling of parts of the game for paying customers only. It becomes a grey area when games use timers and block progression mechanics to try and force you to pay to skip them by making the time scale or rarity to acquire these items so onerous that people are obliged to pay for them. 

 

Dungeon Keeper, the ios game is a perfect example of pay to win, the restraints in the game were so bad, that it's take you 24 hours to mine a single block and it would take you hundreds to build a dungeon. "You want a dungeon in the next 10 years? Then pay for it *@##$es" That's pay to win, or pay to wait if you want. 

 

Zombies vs Flowers and the Simpsons ios has also done this, not as bad, but it's done so.  Warframe's less than 1% chance for the Rhino Prime Chassis to drop is a decent example of that same kind of bullS#&$ exploitative behaviour, not as bad, nor as blatantly obvious as Dungeon keeper, but it works on the same basis, the only mitigating factor is that other frames still allow you to progress, but the increasing power creep (boltor prime) and bloated drop tables make this thing increasingly apparent.

 

If you are defining pay to win by an incredibly narrow definition, while ignoring the frankly abusive behaviour of some devs when it comes to "pay to wait" then you're simply quibbling over semantics, they are designed with exactly the same goal in mind. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[fatpig84]

Plat Discounts? 50% off and you can get 170 plat for $5, which is more than enough to expand your arsenal. 

 

Also, any event, such as Breeding Grounds, that gives out a free weapon will always provide you with a free weapon slot to go along with it. Just max it out, and if you don't care for it, sell it. You now have another slot for free.

 

However, if you get the Prova Vandal, then you've gotten the Dual Stat Mods. Sell 1-3 of them for 600-800 plat to some lazy Pay-To-Win player who buys everything they can. They'll come back out eventually so you can re-acquire them at a later time.

 

You could probably supercharge the Paris and get into T4 content if you like bows. (Vor's Cicero Mod drops can also be sold for a good amount of plat if you ever get to T4).

 

(Also, EDeN153, a casual, has made several hundred plat off of Trade Chat)

 

These are all just suggestions for you to get plat, though, because I do agree that the game needs to tell players they have limited space for weapons. Hopefully, that comes with U14's tutorial/Quest system/Vor's Prize/Player Ships/Whatever.

 

I really am sorry that you're having these problems.

 

 

Yes sell off those fire status mods ftw.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

If you know what pay to win is, then you know it's not a black and white definition that you just gave and you should bloody well know it. 

 

Pay to win, is simply the ability to buy power. How it comes about is neither here nor there. The most obvious one is walling of parts of the game for paying customers only. It becomes a grey area when games use timers and block progression mechanics to try and force you to pay to skip them by making the time scale or rarity to acquire these items so onerous that people are obliged to pay for them. 

 

Dungeon Keeper, the ios game is a perfect example of pay to win, the restraints in the game were so bad, that it's take you 24 hours to mine a single block and it would take you hundreds to build a dungeon. "You want a dungeon in the next 10 years? Then pay for it *@##$es" That's pay to win, or pay to wait if you want. 

 

Zombies vs Flowers and the Simpsons ios has also done this, not as bad, but it's done so.  Warframe's less than 1% chance for the Rhino Prime Chassis to drop is a decent example of that same kind of bullS#&$ exploitative behaviour, not as bad, nor as blatantly obvious as Dungeon keeper, but it works on the same basis, the only mitigating factor is that other frames still allow you to progress, but the increasing power creep (boltor prime) and bloated drop tables make this thing increasingly apparent.

 

If you are defining pay to win by an incredibly narrow definition, while ignoring the frankly abusive behaviour of some devs when it comes to "pay to wait" then you're simply quibbling over semantics, they are designed with exactly the same goal in mind. 

Uh... No. The one thing you're missing is that free to play players have access to this power, ergo, not Pay2Win. Your definition of Pay2Wait is not Pay2Win, nor is it close in resemblance.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Uh... No. The one thing you're missing is that free to play players have access to this power, ergo, not Pay2Win. Your definition of Pay2Wait is not Pay2Win, nor is it close in resemblance.

 

Are you buying power? Are you skipping large chunks of time that the game is forcing you to endure before you can progress? Yes. its' Pay to win then. If it takes 24 hours to carve out 1 block on Dungeon Keeper ios and I need hundreds of them, then it's going to take me 2,400 hours to do a single room. Or I can pay for it. Pay to win. 

 

I don't have to buy the Prime access or spend plat in trade to buy the Rhino Chassis, but given that it had less than a 1% chance of dropping, the only way people will be acquiring it is to buy prime access or pick it up in trade, which requires plat and a fairly large sum, because it's that rare (and lets not say anything about DE encrypting drop tables after they cut the drop rate of forma) It's still pay to win.

 

The later isn't as onerous as the former, but they work on exactly the same basis. Only the most dense of Devs will use a pay walls blocking progress anymore, most now use the pay to wait scheme and make sure you pay by making it obscene. There's little difference between the 2 systems, the only difference is how far the devs go down that line. Dungeon keeper being the worst, Warframe's RNG less so.

 

What you're doing is quibbling over semantics, so what if it doesn't have a pay wall. if I stick a 10 day timer on something, you're still doing the same thing. It functions in exactly the same way. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

What you're doing is quibbling over semantics, so what if it doesn't have a pay wall. if I stick a 10 day timer on something, you're still doing the same thing. It functions in exactly the same way. 

Then it isn't Pay2Win. Are you intentionally being dense about this? And again, a day wait time is not obscene. This mechanic is mostly meant to make you come back the next day, not to force you to "PAY NOW!" (but you can if you want). What you are telling me about are problems that actively exist in other games and not this one.

 

I don't have to buy the Prime access or spend plat in trade to buy the Rhino Chassis, but given that it had less than a 1% chance of dropping, the only way people will be acquiring it is to buy prime access or pick it up in trade, which requires plat and a fairly large sum, because it's that rare (and lets not say anything about DE encrypting drop tables after they cut the drop rate of forma) It's still pay to win.

You are not forced to trade for this chassis. If you don't want to grind on it, that's on you.

[MDRLOz]

Ok this has descended into trying to define a made up term and is not being helpful. I have re-read all four pages and then re-read the OP again. Lets try and get to the route of the problem and work from there. 

 

This problem is around warframe and weapon slots so lets work with those separately. Firstly warframe slots. 

 

Now I agree with you two slots is just not enough, three slots would have been nicer from DE but we have to work with what we got. You currently have an Excalibur and a Rhino. Now you say "i simply cannot enjoy a variety of warframes, i'm stuck in the bottle neck". However you can get rid of one warframe and try others. Its not a terrible loss as you can always rebuild a warframe, even Excalibur. Though its not ideal its very doable. I feel this one will be a hard choice but there is nothing wrong with having one main warframe and then trying out all the other warframes until you find a pair you like most and keeping it. If you wanted you could even store up spare warframe's in the armoury (i.e. You can build all three frame bits and then build the frame but not collect it from the foundry. It will sit there until ready to be used. Once again it will mean you need to grind a bit more for spare parts but it is very doable. 

 

Now weapons I am a bit less on your side and would like you to explain. You say you have eight weapon slots. Now this quite a large amount of slots. You could easily pick four weapons you absolutely must keep and use the other four to rotate in weapons to try and test. You really do not need different damage type weapons in this game currently to make it up to Pluto. The power of Mods is much much stronger and has a larger impact on your weapons output. So I can only conceive that the reason you say that you need these weapons is because you enjoy using them. Please could you list what weapons you feel you "must" keep and thus eating up all your slots. Now when it comes to powering up Mods all players are really on equal footing. Yes you can buy fusion cores but they are hilariously over priced when you can easily just run more missions to get them. Now are there any key mods you are missing e.g. Serration or hornet strike? This is probably causing a big problem then actually having a full set of weapons that you feel you need. 

 

Though I can understand your situation of being young. We were all young once and found it hard to pay into this world of online gaming. You however are 17? Now you should be able to open a bank account yourself now. If not then when you are 18. Then you can make your own paypal account as well and then no one can stop you spending a very small amount of money on the lowest platinum purchase. The lowest value of 75 platinum takes £3.99 or $4.99 or €4.99. That is pocket money, just save up some change and you can make it. Though the game is listed as 17+ it is a shame you cannot get complete access but lines need to be drawn somewhere. 

 

Overall though I don't get your disparity of this issue. You are still playing a high quality game with constant updates and new content for free. It has cost you nothing to get into this game and enjoy it. Though you are being limited by a few small niggling restrictions they actually make no impact on what you can access in-game, as you can build, everything. They only impact on what you can keep ready to be used at a moments notice. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by MDRLOz

[0verkill]

Have played numerous f2p games and have to say that Warframe seems one of the fairest when it comes to balancing free play with the need to generate revenue. As others have proven, it is possible to obtain anything without spending any money at all (so it's not Pay2Win), but obviously DE need some income or there would be no game, so they can't make this too easy.

 

Due to personal circumstances I'm pretty stingy about spending money on games, but if I enjoy a f2p game and have played it for more than 10 hours, then I always feel I should spend something to support the developers otherwise I would feel like a freeloader. And since even the minimum plat purchase gets enough slots to get you started, I feel that DE has been careful to cater for people who can't afford to spend much on games (like myself).

[Gildarts_bb]

another option that maybe available is you mentioned you have asked for pay to play games as gifts? what about asking for a pre-paid gift card that would allow you to get the plat you need? if you go to the buy plat page they have the list of the accepted cards. Also if your into F2P games you should get used to this as a lot of them limit how many characters(lord of the rings online, D&D online), ships (star trek online, battlestar galactica online), mechs (hawken, mechwarrior online) you can have at one time. i have tried a lot of F2P games (due to a limited income and an obsessive need to try a game extensively before i spend money on it lol ) and this is pretty much a standard for a lot of them. one of the reasons i stick with warframe is that they make it a lot less burdensome then most. if you want some help in game feel free to send me a friend request i would be willing to run some higher level stuff with you to help you get stuff you can sell if that's a route you want to go. 

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Then it isn't Pay2Win. Are you intentionally being dense about this? And again, a day wait time is not obscene. This mechanic is mostly meant to make you come back the next day, not to force you to "PAY NOW!" (but you can if you want). What you are telling me about are problems that actively exist in other games and not this one.

 

You are not forced to trade for this chassis. If you don't want to grind on it, that's on you.

 

So a >1% drop chance isn't bad? oh but you're not forced to use it. Now try applying that logic to the likes of the Boltor Prime, or any of the numerous mods with a tiny drop chance, which to progress are almost required. 

 

Are you being dense deliberately? Do you know why RNG drops like this are skewed? Why does a boar or bronco bps drop with a 15% chance and the Rhino Prime >1%

 

If you're not going to grind for these items, then what's the point of playing? End game? There is none. DE themselves have gravitated towards a loot based game, so when your RNG is deliberately punishing to prevent you acquiring the items which is the core of the game's design, what do you call that? 

 

Are you that deluded you haven't noticed that the mechanics work on the same fundamental principle? To make it as onerous as possible to acquire items, so it pushes you to pay or buy the currency to circumvent the system which they put in place in the first place. I really can't believe you're being that obtuse.

 

It doesn't matter whether you call it pay to win, free to wait , whatever. There are ways of using this system without arm twisting your player base into purchases. Warframe is pushing it with the crappy RNG system.