What's Wrong With Rng?

[Doughalo2]

I can obtain every item in the game... in time

If obtaining items was any faster no one would bother buying stuff... AND GUESS WHAT less money for warframe means less updates less content, less bug fixes LESS EVERYTHING.

Worse with less money DE will employ less people meaning LESS VARIETY.

Also to all you people asking for 'smart rewards' can you stop and think for a second. DE has givin you this amazing game for free so why would they make things easy to get?!!?!!?

in life you work to survive no one gives you stuff. Unless you live on benefits for no good reason, then your just a horrible person.

[kubbi]

Every item is obtainable in time. In short if you repeat the same missions over and over again. Oh goodie do I love that.

Can't speak for others but that makes me not want to spend money on the game. If the grindwalls were more fair I would. I spend money when I enjoy the game. Not to get stuff easier.

[MagPrime]

The current RNG system is terrible.  Yes, you do get what you want in time, but that means you've spent hours, sometimes days, grinding out missions to get what you want. 

[Frostosti]

no matter what DE does, a portion of the players will always complain.
Personally i have no problems with the system, only minor complaint would be that there is very little in the game itself and you have to use the wiki a lot to figure everything out.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

no matter what DE does, a portion of the players will always complain.

Personally i have no problems with the system, only minor complaint would be that there is very little in the game itself and you have to use the wiki a lot to figure everything out.

Hopefully this begins to be remedied starting with the addition of Vor's Prize.

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

I can obtain every item in the game... in time

Gonna have to cut you off there. The fact that it's RNG means it's possible you won't get every item in the game no matter how long you spend. And there is the problem.

[Doughalo2]

Gonna have to cut you off there. The fact that it's RNG means it's possible you won't get every item in the game no matter how long you spend. And there is the problem.

i almost have everything in the game and of course u can get everything if you want

[J4CKY]

I feel no satisfaction from buying warframes/weapons with plat I only use plat to buy cosmetics and warframe/weapon slots. And I believe DE can make plenty of money from those alone. If anything rng makes me not want to play the game anymore and thus not investing into more weapon and warframe slots.

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

i almost have everything in the game and of course u can get everything if you want

Did you read what I said? It's RNG. It is possible you could never get what you want. It's possible the things I'm still spending all of my Warframe time looking for I might never get. Because it's random. Entirely random. Meaning never getting anything else is a very real possibility.

[Aratir]

Players nowadays want everything handed to them. If you want something in game you can get it maybe not in your first 5 runs and maybe you are unlucky and don't get it event after 30 runs. But but rng doesn't mean that you wont get it, only means you will get it if you keep on trying.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Players nowadays want everything handed to them. If you want something in game you can get it maybe not in your first 5 runs and maybe you are unlucky and don't get it event after 30 runs. But but rng doesn't mean that you wont get it, only means you will get it if you keep on trying.

The way RNG works, there is a chance, albeit a very low one, that you never get something.

[Octoknightx]

Did you read what I said? It's RNG. It is possible you could never get what you want. It's possible the things I'm still spending all of my Warframe time looking for I might never get. Because it's random. Entirely random. Meaning never getting anything else is a very real possibility.

:c

[Paradoxity]

I can obtain every item in the game... in time

If obtaining items was any faster no one would bother buying stuff... AND GUESS WHAT less money for warframe means less updates less content, less bug fixes LESS EVERYTHING.

Worse with less money DE will employ less people meaning LESS VARIETY.

Also to all you people asking for 'smart rewards' can you stop and think for a second. DE has givin you this amazing game for free so why would they make things easy to get?!!?!!?

in life you work to survive no one gives you stuff. Unless you live on benefits for no good reason, then your just a horrible person.

 

I'm not necessarily sure i can explain this well enough to get the point across, but I'll sure try. RNG, at it's most base level isn't an issue. All games, to some extent, have RNG. In other MMOs, for example, mobs pull from drop tables randomly, bosses drop loot the same way, events award prizes based on a random number generator... you get the point. RNG isn't inherently bad.

 

I should stop here and specify: I don't call them grind walls. This is because, to me, grinding indicates that you make gains towards your goal each and every time you do a mission or whatever- think of grinding XP in other games. regardless of anything else, you''ll make progress towards that next level if you kill mobs. Farming is the act of killing mobs repeatedly looking for specific drops, without any guarantee of making tangible progress. Thus, you grind levels on a weapon, you farm for prime BPs. Sorry for any confusion there. 

 

When RNG *is* inherently bad is when it is literally the only way to obtain things (yes, I know trading exists, gimme a sec) . All things in warframe, bar a few specific weapons, must either be built with components farmed up (which, I'll grant, isn't terribly difficult anymore, though I remember as a newer player hating having to farm Neurodes and Neural sensors... ugh!) , or found as drops- and occasionally (as in the case of all primes, and several frames) the blueprints to build them from components is a random drop, effectively putting it behind two separate farm walls. With things like certain primes, where not only is the BP behind a RNG wall, but each component is also a totally random reward from different missions (with miserably cluttered drop tables, but that's neither here nor there) and then the keys themselves to get to those missions are behind their own RNG wall. So that's what? Call it two random loot tables per component, plus another ten for the cells necessary for some prime weapons. That's three components, so three keys (six things that have to be farmed- could take one run apiece, could take a hundred, who knows?) and then the BP, which sometimes drops form, yet again, a completely separate key- two more. that's eight things, plus, again, ten cells that may or may not need to be farmed for. Yeah, you could farm up ten cells relatively quickly (all it takes is a couple good invasion payouts, or some visits to general ruk), or it might take all night. Who knows? it's random. 

 

Trading offers a partial solution- if you're willing to either spend money (which, to be fair, yes, the devs need- but the caveat is if you're using platinum trading, every dollar you spend in that is a dollar someone else doesn't have to spend, which kind of makes it a poor source of income.) or farm for things to trade for the things you need- bringing the RNG right back into the mix. 

 

And this is the problem. The farming in this game is extremely repetitive- that's all there is. Farm, farm farm. Farm for a new weapon to grind so you can farm more- it's an endless cycle. What do you do with that shiny new Boltor Prime? You farm for whatever's next on the list. 

 

Again, RNG is not bad inherently, and is just fine in most cases. In this case, because farming or grinding is all there is to do it's not only far more noticeable, it's far less enjoyable- there's no payoff. There's no raid where your improved DPS from that boltor prime lets you down a boss for epic mods, there's no major bragging rights that come with being the penultimate badass in conclave- no title, no syndana, no nothing. There is nothing to do but farm and grind, and this is why RNG is an issue. It is a symptom in a larger problem- but it's one of the most noticeable, because it affects all players. 

[Arphila]

You guys are light weights, the ones that say rng on here is a bad system that is. I honestly don't mind the grind especially since it's more entertaining and fun (Yes I said fun) to hunt for items.

 

Also holy crap to everyone whining about farming, saying its repetitive. How about you forma a weapon or play with something you don't normally do? Most MMO's these days are all about the farming. Endgame is all about farming in popular MMORPG's. Want good gear? Well sit your butt down at your desk for a couple of days cause your gunna have to work for it.

 

I remember way back in the day when I played FFXI and you wanted an item from a rare monster or HNM that you'd not only have to fight for the spawn time which depending on the monster would only spawn maybe once a week, but even if you claimed the monster you only had a certain chance at having the item you want dropping and if you were in a serious clan you might have to wait your turn to actually get the item cause someone who has seniority over drops gets to go first.

 

Really warframe is very forgiving when it comes to farming for items you want. Getting tired of waiting for the item to drop? Buy it for some plat than. To expensive cause it just came out? Learn to wait.

 

I'd also like to say if RNG was bad, than no one would have these items. "Oh gosh but I want it noooooow." "I've spent so much time doing this over and over again." First world problems right there.

[Dualstar]

 

Basically, in a weighted numbers system, theres always going to be someone out there who will consistently lose.

[DMan]

What if RNG will stay, but there will also be some sort of anti-extreme-RNG-system in place? As in a system that will guarantee that you'll get all the items in the list (of that specific key) after a specific set of drops (no DE I don't mean 10000 drops).

This way, you'll still have a chance of getting it in first try and then bragging about it on the forums ("LOL GOT IT IN FIRST TRY AND I WASN'T EVEN LOOKING FOR IT" messages), and on the other hand there won't be extreme cases of people spending 80 T4 keys with 0 luck.

You want to make something rare that you'll need to work hard for it to obtain? I'm fine with that, not going to argue about that.

But if you want it rare, then make it the same level of rare for everyone (which RNG fails to do).

 

Wanna see a good example of how to make some of the items hard to obtain, but without RNG? Go play planetside 2.

IMO that game makes a great example of a loot/weapons obtaining system that is fair for everyone, including the f2p players.

Yeah might be hard to imagine but you're actually having fun while "grinding for new stuff" (I wouldn't even call it a grind, but these are the terms that this community understands)

Edited June 26, 2014 by DMan128

[SignumCruxis]

ITT: People saying RNG makes them not want to play the game because they're losing their battles with RNG.

 

>Same people still wouldn't play if everything was more easily obtainable. Because then they'd have nothing to chase after much sooner.

 

Let's be honest Warframe community, how many of you are mature enough to take a step back, look at yourselves, and admit you're being spoiled brats?

 

Let's also take a moment to list all the other games created involving RNG drops/rewa- You know what nevermind, that'd take a bit longer than a moment wouldn't it?

 

 

tl;dr: RNG crybabies haven't played any other games prior to Warframe and think everything should be obtained in one run.

This game is VERY forgiving in what you can acquire without spending a penny. VERY forgiving.

Edited June 26, 2014 by SignumCruxis

[DMan]

^ Oh look a wild MMO master race player appears.

Yep, calling people "RNG crybabies" and "spoiled brats" only helps to proved your point even more.

Sorry master, I'll immediately start to play more nerve wrecking MMOs like WOW, until I'll turn into a pickle. Must get all the epic loot em I rite?

Just p...p...please don't hurt me anymore with your amazing keyboard skills. I had no idea that I was talking to a level 60 warlock here.

S...s...s..so..ry

 

We all know that this thread, like the thousand other ones will either get locked, or eventually die.

There is really no point in repeating the stuff that were already said so many times.

This is just a war-zone for flame wars between the MMO players and the "casuals".

So just stop wasting your time here and move along.

/thread

[paltiflier23]

ITT: People saying RNG makes them not want to play the game because they're losing their battles with RNG.

 

>Same people still wouldn't play if everything was more easily obtainable. Because then they'd have nothing to chase after much sooner.

 

Let's be honest Warframe community, how many of you are mature enough to take a step back, look at yourselves, and admit you're being spoiled brats?

 

Let's also take a moment to list all the other games created involving RNG drops/rewa- You know what nevermind, that'd take a bit longer than a moment wouldn't it?

 

 

tl;dr: RNG crybabies haven't played any other games prior to Warframe and think everything should be obtained in one run.

This game is VERY forgiving in what you can acquire without spending a penny. VERY forgiving.

 

but isn't there a middle ground here somewhere?

I mean, we are allowed to at least TRY and find a middle ground, right?

 

also, my beliefs about rng stems from the fact that it does not reward a high level of skill.

[Iceyspy]

ITT: People saying RNG makes them not want to play the game because they're losing their battles with RNG.

 

>Same people still wouldn't play if everything was more easily obtainable. Because then they'd have nothing to chase after much sooner.

 

Let's be honest Warframe community, how many of you are mature enough to take a step back, look at yourselves, and admit you're being spoiled brats?

 

Let's also take a moment to list all the other games created involving RNG drops/rewa- You know what nevermind, that'd take a bit longer than a moment wouldn't it?

 

 

tl;dr: RNG crybabies haven't played any other games prior to Warframe and think everything should be obtained in one run.

This game is VERY forgiving in what you can acquire without spending a penny. VERY forgiving.

But that doesn`t mean that the RNG could be a little less ridiculous. I mean seriously, have you seen how diluted Tier IV Defense and Survival drop tables are? There are like 15 different things you can get from EACH tier, only ONE of them being the thing that you need. 

 

It`s one thing to do 100 runs and know that by the end of it all, you`ll have that Loki Prime helmet BP in your inventory. It is completely different if after 100, 1000 and maybe even 10000 runs you STILL don`t get the item you`re looking for. 

 

And finally, Trading. This allows you to take a shortcut and simply pay platinum for the items you need. One could even say that you should probably wait a month or two for the prices in the trade chat for the new items to drop so that you can buy them for cheap. But here`s the thing: I don`t play this game to sit in trade chat all day long looking for deals. I would much rather murder hordes of Infested, Grineer and Corpus in many different ways, being a ninja with god-like powers and all that jazz.

 

TL;DR The RNG isn`t as bad as some may think, but it could definetly be improved. Simply calling everyone a 'spoiled  brat' without giving feedback or a better solution to the problem doesn`t fix the issue.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Iceyspy

[Shin]

i almost have everything in the game and of course u can get everything if you want

Try getting Stalkers set. I got my Despair after a year.

 

Yes you can get anything in time but it can be today or next year after your daughter becomes a grandmother.

[Paradoxity]

RNG too hard? oh, you must be casual. no, no not really. it's hardly causal to want a better game. 

 

Yeah, it was soul crushing to finally down Rag40 after a month of attempts... only to get two pieces of shammy loot. In an ally guild. In vanilla WoW. 

Let's talk about how hard it was to down world bosses on a PvP server. trust me when I say that took far, far more skill and coordination than anything in warframe ever. Especially the relatively mindless task of farming. And you know, their drop tables? yeah, totally random. More diluted than voids, too. Funnily enough, this wasn't an issue. 

 

Or how about we dig back farther and talk about Killing MVPs in iRO, which wasn't as much about technical skill as it was about timing and numbers. Of course, you hoped it dropped something useful, it usually didn't. (funnily enough, RNG in that game wasn't an issue because there was plenty more to do.) 

 

Or, let's look at a more modern game. Wildstar's challenges reward loot randomly, with your level of success allowing you more influence- though it's still random. (And nothing sucks more than to lose a nice blue for some flippin crafting components.) But, you know, there's plenty more to the game than challenges. 

 

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it again. the issue with RNG is that it's the most immediate issue with a larger problem. If you fix the larger problem, RNG ceases to be an issue. 

[(PSN)Fbeast2]

I have given up playing warframe on a regular basis due to rng and dark sectors. I tried to get a Mag Prime Systems BP since November last year and I have finally given up. RNG has killed all the hope I had of getting the final part of my warframe collection. I do not have a problem with grinding for something I want. I don't even mind farming for something but what I do expect is to actually get what I want after a certain amount of grinding or farming. The game I am playing now is also a grinding game, but I know what I will get at the end of the grind.

 

That fact alone makes it worth the grind regardless of how rigorous or lengthy the grind is.

[Pbrandon1]

ITT: People saying RNG makes them not want to play the game because they're losing their battles with RNG.

 

>Same people still wouldn't play if everything was more easily obtainable. Because then they'd have nothing to chase after much sooner.

 

Let's be honest Warframe community, how many of you are mature enough to take a step back, look at yourselves, and admit you're being spoiled brats?

 

Let's also take a moment to list all the other games created involving RNG drops/rewa- You know what nevermind, that'd take a bit longer than a moment wouldn't it?

 

 

tl;dr: RNG crybabies haven't played any other games prior to Warframe and think everything should be obtained in one run.

This game is VERY forgiving in what you can acquire without spending a penny. VERY forgiving.

Um, no, actually Warframe is worse in the very forgiving situation if you compare it to games that aren't pay2win.

 

Warframe for the most part has grind as it's main driving factor as said by Paradoxity. The grind is also painful considering the fact the game has you having to grind for mods, parts, weapons, frames, and more to progress in the game. If you don't like the grind then you could just pay for the items but that is just Pay2Skip, decreasing the players time into the game.

 

Other games I have played that aren't Pay2Win or Pay2Skip actually only have accessories in the market and every other weapon and gear you must earn and/or build. Yes, you must go grind for resources but once you have all the resources, you can have it built instantly and be ready for you to use in under a second and be out into the fray. Also, I would like to point out that you could get tons of weapons and gear and you wouldn't to spend a single dime.

 

Problem with Warframe is that once you have the resources required for it, you must wait about 12 or 24 hours or 3 days just for your gear to arrive and then start playing with it. While that happens, you really don't have much to do unless play another game or just grind for more stuff or find something fun to do. The reason Warframe does this because it has a set-up where it only has a couple of weapons for you to play with and they don't want you blowing through it, so they have it locked behind a grind, and another grind for prime, then wait. During that time of waiting, players will most likely move away from the game if they have nothing better to do and the more they do this, the more people start to not like the game and flock to another.

 

Plus, you may say that Warframe has the better marketplace where you can buy accessories and resources and stuff, still not true. Warframe's prices for items are way more priced then the items of the games I know. The Venka is priced at 175 plat which is about $10 just for a weapon...

 

I could get a ton of accessories and probably more with $10 then I would get here in Warframe. And that's not scratching the surface, where a starter weapon cost way more then it should.(Really, $10 for the price of the Skana?) 

 

Yes, you can trade, we know that, but that is no excuse for the prices of these items...just really.

 

Others problems I should mention is that Warframe has for the most part, repeating tilesets but that is being addressed we know, but for now it hardly has much compared to other games with multiple dungeons, boss rooms, challenge rooms, and pvp rooms each with unique tilesets. Warframe also lacks in skill. Most of the game consist of just having the right set-up and little skill and you win, not requiring you to have a good amount of skill. 

 

The games I have played have always challenged you by requiring you to have skill and the right set-up to be able to win. I have died many times because I wasn't prepared skillfully or in equipment and even then you could probably still do it without the right equipment, it would just take longer but you could do it.

 

Other issues not mentioned are unfair enemies, repeating enemies, drop chances, etc. All of which these games do much better then Warframe.

 

You could say, well it is unfair to compare it to titles that are already finished or have bigger companies well you were the one that decided Warframe was better then most of the MMO's out there. 

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pbrandon1

[Pbrandon1]

 

Sorry.....

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pbrandon1