Looorreeee

[DirkDeadeye]

Then go write a book. Lore is there to tell you what is happening, not to allow you to imagine what happened on your own.

 

I would but folks like you would scream at me. So I'm reduced to this.

[Renegade343]

Because there is no timeline as to when he donned the warframe.

 

Or where he got it.

 

If he stole it.

 

And if he stole it how was he capable of using it.

 

If he was given it, or sent to the void, when?

 

Or if he was an experiment leading up to the creation of warframes.

 

These things are not explained.

 

It's that simple.

We really do not know. 

 

Can you grasp the simple fact that we do not know exactly how Stalker procured his Warframe?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Renegade343

[Ionus]

Because there is no timeline as to when he donned the warframe.

 

Or where he got it.

 

If he stole it.

 

And if he stole it how was he capable of using it.

 

If he was given it, or sent to the void, when?

 

Or if he was an experiment leading up to the creation of warframes.

 

These things are not explained.

 

It's that simple.

 

If the facts we have at hand imply that the Stalker wasn't worth noting until the end of the war, then how can you think he was one of the first warframes?

 

Being able to explain exactly how he procured a warframe has no bearing on this logic.

[vaugahn]

What happened to the discussion about Corpus, CSR and lore?

 

No idea. I think we arrived on the assumption that there were other people in the system that corpus sold stuff to, and that they primarily copied orokin designs.

[DirkDeadeye]

We really do not know. 

 

Can you grasp the simple fact that we do not know exactly how Stalker procured his Warframe?

 

No I do. And that's the point im trying to make. But people keep insiting that i'm WRONG or something. Wrong about what? Tell me more. The stalkers story assumes he was a lesser one. He might have been a prototype. Why can't we explore that? Because some dipS#&$ wrote "excal was the first one" that line right there just dismisses everything. Suddenly i'm insane for thinking a little outside of what's been shown in front of me. If the naysayers would have said "meh okay, that's neat" I'd be done. But instead i'm presented with a lot of negativity. And i'm not gonna walk away from it.

Edited July 1, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[GrimR3APER]

Would anyone else like to see a city style map? I think this could add a lore-like aspect to the game, it would let us know that there are things in the system that aren't war related. Maybe have civilians in them just to show that every life form in the solar system isn't a genetic weirdo grineer or tech cult corpus or nasty infested. :D

[Renegade343]

No idea. I think we arrived on the assumption that there were other people in the system that corpus sold stuff to, and that they primarily copied orokin designs.

Then do you believe that the Corpus sell subtly spiked cloning equipment to the Grineer so that the Grineer degenerates batch after batch, meaning the Grineer relies more and more heavily on the Corpus for augmentation parts?

[vaugahn]

Would anyone else like to see a city style map? I think this could add a lore-like aspect to the game, it would let us know that there are things in the system that aren't war related. Maybe have civilians in them just to show that every life form in the solar system isn't a genetic weirdo grineer or tech cult corpus or nasty infested. :D

 

This would be awesome. Personally, I think grineer and corpus civilians would look like the capture targets. 

[DirkDeadeye]

and I mean the "F YOU YOURE WRONG" kinda negatvity, that gets me fired up.

[Doom_Bunny]

And now, 15 pages later, we have finally descended into chaos. Anyone still want to talk about lore?

Yeah, we have dirkdeadeye and about 5 people arguing about the thread topic. Then we have you, me, the 5 people and some other people  talking about supposed lore, lore yet to come that we can make up by branching off of present lore or completely make up.

[Ionus]

No I do. And that's the point im trying to make. But people keep insiting that i'm WRONG or something. Wrong about what? Tell me more. The stalkers story assumes he was a lesser one. He might have been a prototype. Why can't we explore that? Because some dipS#&$ wrote "excal was the first one" that line right there just dismisses everything. Suddenly i'm insane for thinking a little outside of what's been shown in front of me. If the naysayers would have said "meh okay, that's neat" I'd be done. But instead i'm presented with a lot of negativity. And i'm not gonna walk away from it.

 

You were wrong in your reasoning. Your chronology was off, you had no sources to aid in your conjectures, and when people disagreed you began spouting expletives about how they can't prove your theory was ungrounded when in reality it ignored any logical conclusion.

[vaugahn]

Then do you believe that the Corpus sell subtly spiked cloning equipment to the Grineer so that the Grineer degenerates batch after batch, meaning the Grineer relies more and more heavily on the Corpus for augmentation parts?

 

Grineer body augments look like grineer designs, and the tooltip on neurodes implies they have a decent grasp on biotech and their own bodies. I think grineer degradation is more a byproduct of so many iterations of clones, rather than corpus interference.

[TC-Guardian]

Then, how can you dismiss my theories? What, because the powers that be sort of just tell you 'he was the first'. You're going to bind yourself to just that. I mean look at the way the bible was written. The canon they chose to compose the bible as we know it. You're telling me that you're not a free thinker. If that's the case just tell me now. And we can move on. I've asked that of you guys. All of you several times.

Um... Yes, the people developing the game, and therefore the lore of the game and its universe say that Excalibur was the first. They have not at any point made any inclination that Stalker, or any other warframe came first. It is right there in the Excalibur and the Excalibur Prime codex entries. Saying that they are wrong and that Stalker was first is like telling J RR Tolkien that LOTR did not happen in middle earth because he did not say that it didn't happen anywhere else, even though it clearly states that it did happen in Middle earth. Or like telling George Lucus that Vader is not in fact Lukes father because what if quigon got to padme first.... Seriously.

[DirkDeadeye]

You were wrong in your reasoning. Your chronology was off, you had no sources to aid in your conjectures, and when people disagreed you began spouting expletives about how they can't prove your theory was ungrounded when in reality it ignored any logical conclusion.

 

Don't even, you can't explain how he procured the frame either. And there is no cronology for the stalker. He descrbes an event.

[DirkDeadeye]

Um... Yes, the people developing the game, and therefore the lore of the game and its universe say that Excalibur was the first. They have not at any point made any inclination that Stalker, or any other warframe came first. It is right there in the Excalibur and the Excalibur Prime codex entries. Saying that they are wrong and that Stalker was first is like telling J RR Tolkien that LOTR did not happen in middle earth because he did not say that it didn't happen anywhere else, even though it clearly states that it did happen in Middle earth. Or like telling George Lucus that Vader is not in fact Lukes father because what if quigon got to padme first.... Seriously.

 

He was the first..means nothing. First what? Fist pumping moron who didn't get cancer from the void? Also implies bias from the stoyteller.

Edited July 1, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[Ionus]

Don't even, you can't explain how he procured the frame either. And there is no cronology for the stalker. He descrbes an event.

 

We know when the event happened chronologically, and Stalker was there. Therefore we can infer the chronology of the Stalker.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ionus

[Renegade343]

Grineer body augments look like grineer designs, and the tooltip on neurodes implies they have a decent grasp on biotech and their own bodies. I think grineer degradation is more a byproduct of so many iterations of clones, rather than corpus interference.

Then again, since they seem to have a good grasp on biotech, they would have already made their own augmentations (given that the Grineer has more than enough time to develop them) and do not need to rely on the Corpus for augmentation. But since the Corpus is still on Sol, that would indicate that the Grineer is relying on the Corpus for something, which then led me to believe that the Corpus sells spiked cloning equipment and subsequent augmentation parts to the Grineer, as that would explain: 

 

1. Why the Corpus still exists on Sol.

2. Why the Grineer degenerate. 

3. Why the Grineer can produce massive batch upon batch. 

[DirkDeadeye]

We know when the event happened chronologically, and Stalker was there. Therefore we can infer the chronology of the Stalker.

 

But not his inception. :O

[GrimR3APER]

Grineer body augments look like grineer designs, and the tooltip on neurodes implies they have a decent grasp on biotech and their own bodies. I think grineer degradation is more a byproduct of so many iterations of clones, rather than corpus interference.

That would be an interesting concept though and would fit the corpus nicely. They seem to do anything for money and this way they would trap the grineer in a 'pay cycle' kinda. Now we just have to come up with a way the grineer are countering this or dealing with it so they don't become the lower of the two leveled factions.

[Renegade343]

He was the first..means nothing. First what? Fist pumping moron who didn't get cancer from the void? Also implies bias from the stoyteller.

The first to come out successfully (i.e. no deaths, insanity etc.. Came out with Void powers and still kept most of his sanity intact, which allowed the Orokin to use them against the Sentients.)

[Doom_Bunny]

Then do you believe that the Corpus sell subtly spiked cloning equipment to the Grineer so that the Grineer degenerates batch after batch, meaning the Grineer relies more and more heavily on the Corpus for augmentation parts?

I don't think the corpus and grineer would go so heavily into trading as to trade tech. More like trading materials. The degeneration is due to that same dna being cloned over and over again. Eventualy the the dna will be completly corupt and won't produce any more.

[Ionus]

But not his inception. :O

At the time of the event he describes, he was a "Guardian." From there we can say he was not a child, but old enough to be some sort of armed person that could be trusted to, well, guard something. We can't even possibly know whether or not he had a warframe already. If he did, then why isn't he being celebrated like the Tenno? From here you know Stalker was never of importance to the Orokin.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ionus

[vaugahn]

That would be an interesting concept though and would fit the corpus nicely. They seem to do anything for money and this way they would trap the grineer in a 'pay cycle' kinda. Now we just have to come up with a way the grineer are countering this or dealing with it so they don't become the lower of the two leveled factions.

 

My theory for the grineer vs corpus battle is this: grineer are able to produce troops in much larger quantities, but corpus are able to do more with fewer troops due to robotics and general technological advances.

 

As for grineer implants, I assume they're careful about what goes in their bodies, especially if it's corpus-made. That would be like the american military buying russian-made tanks during the height of the cold war, it doesn't make much sense for a regime as military-minded as the grineer.

Edited July 1, 2014 by vaugahn

[GrimR3APER]

He was the first..means nothing. First what? Fist pumping moron who didn't get cancer from the void? Also implies bias from the stoyteller.

Maybe you'r all wrong... It could likely mean that the Excalibur type warframe was the first one made? Does that make sense. Obviously different tenno wear the same type suit so why can't we leave it at, The Excalibur type warframe was the first. Tada.

[Doom_Bunny]

Then again, since they seem to have a good grasp on biotech, they would have already made their own augmentations (given that the Grineer has more than enough time to develop them) and do not need to rely on the Corpus for augmentation. But since the Corpus is still on Sol, that would indicate that the Grineer is relying on the Corpus for something, which then led me to believe that the Corpus sells spiked cloning equipment and subsequent augmentation parts to the Grineer, as that would explain: 

 

1. Why the Corpus still exists on Sol.

2. Why the Grineer degenerate. 

3. Why the Grineer can produce massive batch upon batch. 

If the corpus are able to reproduce new dna can be trade to the grineer to keep them alive. That means corpus dna would be in the grineer and I'm not sure that any of the higher up grineer would like that. (greedy milk and all)