Ash Prime Or Loki Prime

[Eredoc]

can't do much about bad players, they're everywhere.

 

...mffw a frost starts snowglobing INFESTED DEFENSE

 

Snowglobe does a lot more than Block Bullets, such as slowing infested and their Attacks, granted it's no Bastille but it's still very Helpful

 

On topic: Didn't matter to Me, I enjoy both Loki and Ash, so the order is pretty inconsequential to me

[MetroFallout]

It's ironic how many Lokis got trolled in this thread.

*Raises eyebrow*

[-MrCoffee-]

Warframe is very based on what you personally like and what kind of a play style u have. I main Ash and FOR ME he is number one. im not saying hes the best, but FOR ME he is the warframe i enjoy the most. 

Loki is indeed an great warframe due to his utility. I love it about him, and he is my second favorite warframe. But ash just feels that he has more flow. and ofc more ninja :D :D 

I say that BOTH the warframes are great. this is MY opinion, NOT a fact! 

[darthdart]

It's ironic how many Lokis got trolled in this thread.

 

I'm not trolling.

 

Loki players are garbage and until I see one in my mission not being garbage, my opinion will always be that.

[TC-Guardian]

If they increased Ash Primes invis duration to match Loki then Ash would become Loki's Damage dealing twin, which would be cool. However damage dealing really is only useful up until level ~30-40 after that utility is the only saving grace.

[SignumCruxis]

As a player who mains Ash, no. As far as I know Loki came before Ash, he has seniority so he should obviously be first. Quite frankly, I'm more or less worried over how Ash Prime will come out considering that I've forma'd my Ash six times, doing that all over again doesn't sound too pleasing. But.. if he comes out looking just as badass like the Loki Prime did, then I'll gladly do it all over again. I'm just hoping they ease up on the gold, couldn't deck it out my Loki in black/red setup that I love and had to settle for the gold/black. 

 

-Considering the Loki Prime hate, btw. Way too many Lokis who join my void def/survivals with an invis build just to end up dying and being rather useless. 

 

Not sure if troll or serious

 

>6 forma'd black & red Ash

 

 

topkek

[(PSN)lll-URBAN-III]

They need to sort the moves out for Ash they suck.

Forced bleed proc on Bladestorm? Oh I'll just put my Dragon Nikana down and stop cutting enemies in half.

[MetroFallout]

I'm not trolling.

 

Loki players are garbage and until I see one in my mission not being garbage, my opinion will always be that.

Just throwing this out there, what's your MR?

[darthdart]

Just throwing this out there, what's your MR?

10

[MSD3000]

And how does Freddie Mercury in a Power Rangers helmet not sound awesome as hell to you?

You're right, that DOES sound cool now that I think about it. Maybe he just needs some chest hair and a flowing cape. Something is getting lost in translation...

[MetroFallout]

10

Wait till you start playing with experienced Loki players at MR 13+. You'd eat your words when they save you with RD and Invis.

[darthdart]

Wait till you start playing with experienced Loki players at MR 13+. You'd eat your words when they save you with RD and Invis.

 

Maybe one day.

 

Until then, opinion still stands.

[Jahadaya]

10

10 and you're still just on Eris and Europa? Or are those just the places in which you've found Loki players? (<- doesn't make sense)

[Zalgo]

Neither Volt prime all the way.

[Yaerion]

Soul Punched out of General Discussion.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

Is Ash Prime gets a 5 second boost on Smoke Screen, then yea i'd prefer Ash

Edited July 7, 2014 by (PS4)kiddplay13

[(PSN)DurandalTyr]

The Loki Prime has the advantage in high-level gameplay.  30+ seconds of invisibility, and the capacity to remove those gorgons and flux beams from the heavies in Towers are far more valuable than a teleport spam and a chance to get melee'd in the face when trying to stealth kill enemies.

[(PSN)Sk1nnyFr33k]

    Ash prime is yet to be seen and will probably be seen as very good looking, 'cause he already looks very nice. So, I would go for him, not just for looks, but cause his powers are very well rounded and very stealth based where as Loki's powers (other than invisibility) are more tactic based.

    Primes are only made for their superior looks and better mod polarities but in the end, I didn't enjoy Loki himself all that much so Ash Prime would be more preferred by myself.

:D 

[shut]

I'm not trolling.

 

Loki players are garbage and until I see one in my mission not being garbage, my opinion will always be that.

 

I can totally see a constructive discussion resulting from this.

[10twenty4]

Not at all. I'll take the rusemaster over the edgemaster anyday.

 

Ash is a terrible frame

[scaily]

i like loki some what but i like ask still to id take loki prime however because he makes nightmaremod runs so much easyer

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

People keep saying Loki is so much better at Stealth, but that's not really the case when you factor in all the factors that make a good frame.

 

Yes, Ash's invisibility is 20 seconds versus Loki's 30 seconds. But 20 seconds is quite a lot of time already. Casting an ability two times per minute versus casting it three times is not such a big deal, honestly. You're still invisible all the time, you only have to stop for a split second once more per minute with ASH to recast it... And you get a cool smoke screen stun bonus in the process of doing so, which ensures you don't get killed while recasting it... It will stun people attacking cryo pods and will help you get into tough, crowded spaces if you need passage too.

 

What really matters is ability cost and what happens to the frame when invisibly runs out. In terms of ability cost, Ash's smoke screen costs very little energy, especially when you add a Streamline mod... To put it simply, it costs less than a single energy orb. If you add an Energy Siphon to your ASH, this makes the actual cost of ASH's stealth attack pretty much negligible, as you'll restore about as much Energy during the 20 second duration from the aura that you used to trigger the abilities. This allows Ash to turn invisible using a single energy globe in Nightmare missions, and it also plays very well into the synergy with the Rage mod, which i'll get into later. In contrasts, Loki's ability might last a little longer, but it costs more, meaning a single energy orb is not enough to recharge the meter and trigger it in most cases. This can be really bad in nightmare missions and in tough spots, as it's one thing to grab a single orb in a tough spot, but the odds of finding two are not always so good . Also, since Loki is so frail without his invisibility, once his invisibility falls down, he's exposed and will die from most high level enemies. Meanwhile, without his invisibility, Ash is as durable as most other frames and can withstand a beating like everyone else in the map. You can also factor specific conditions like getting all your energy drained by ancients disruption. Ash will simply have to survive for a few seconds dodging and trying to acquire a single energy orb while Loki will be left with his pants down trying to salvage two energy orbs as fast as possible before getting killed. Then there's the Rage Mod, which synergies perfectly with ASH. See that gigantic 1000 HP pool of health. Put a Rage mode and the minute your shield goes down, your energy gets back up immediately, allowing an immediate recharge of your Energy Pool and to recast the very cheap invisibility with even minimal damage taken to your health. Heck, this can be used to bypass the "no energy" condition in Nightmare maps too, as you get hit once and generate enough Energy to run your invisibility. Your shield heals up after being turned invisible, and a single charged attack from a high damage melee weapon with the life steal mode will fully recharge your HP, making Ash pretty much immortal. I mean, to kill him, you have to deplete his energy, deplete his 600 and plus shield, then deplete his 1000 and above HP pool, which triggers the return of his energy and allows him to shield himself of further attacks since , guess what, he has a smoke screen stun attack allowing him to cast even when surrounded.

 

Meanwhile Loki's invisibility runs out, he's left pretty much defenseless, especially when surrounded by enemies. He has very low HP and Shields, meaning he'll get maimed and killed by high level enemies in a few seconds. Even with Rage, due to his minuscule shield and hp pool, plus the higher cost of his ability, he probably will get killed before he can regenerate enough Energy to trigger his invisibility, making him dead.

 

In the end, this is why Ash beats him. I can stand surrounded by hard hitting enemies and melee them to death at 3X the damage while being pretty much immortal and knowing that when my invisibility gets out, I can stun them back up with my smokescreen and continue the cycle. Loki has neither the buffer to take the damage, nor the utility to stunlock while casting his invisibility... Plus all the details mentioned above... I can even do so in Nightmare with some of the worse conditions. No Shield.. I have my health. No energy... I can get hit and restore my energy pool, or just tank it out like any other frame. Add the Sentinel's ability to restore your shield and you got yourself a character that will hardy die and be constantly reviving your teammates.

 

I'll be the first one to admit I only use Smoke Screen on my ASH. Blade Storm is not worth it even with the current fix , Teleport is pretty useless and I'd rather a gun to shoot something than use Shuriken and waste energy from my Smoke Screen Pool. One would think a frame with 3 kinda useless abilities would be bad, but with ASH, you're getting a Tanky frame that can deal 3X the damage while impervious to most attacks and that won't get one shotted by random mods once his invisibility runs off like Loki does . The only weakness he has is in regards to crowd control (basically defense missions against ranged foes)... But still ,being able to one shot everything while cloaked using the Dragon Ninkana or Dakra Prime and Clear whole rooms of enemies makes up for any alt you can throw. Melee 2.0 has been kind to Ash... And while I can understand why one would prefer a high-risk glass canon like Loki, overall as a stealth frame / melee powerhouse, ASH beats Loki by a mile imho... You just need a couple formas to make him tailored for stealth.

 

In the end, no matter how much you mod your Loki, he will always one of the frailest frame in the game , while Ash can be turned into the tankiest frame in the game. Heck, when even Rhino's Iron Skin starts to fall apart, Ash is still invisible and kicking @$$, reviving teammates in map hotspots while being totally impervious to damage. And while I can see the utility of radial disarm, I don't really get the point of getting a stealth frame that cannot really survive in melee range due to being a glass canon only because of an utility that is outclassed by stuff from Nix and other frames.

Edited August 17, 2014 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[GSDAkatsuki]

People keep saying Loki is so much better at Stealth, but that's not really the case when you factor in all the factors that make a good frame.

 

Yes, Ash's invisibility is 20 seconds versus Loki's 30 seconds. But 20 seconds is quite a lot of time already. Casting an ability two times per minute versus casting it three times is not such a big deal, honestly. You're still invisible all the time, you only have to stop for a split second once more per minute with ASH to recast it... And you get a cool smoke screen stun bonus in the process of doing so, which ensures you don't get killed while recasting it... It will stun people attacking cryo pods and will help you get into tough, crowded spaces if you need passage too.

 

What really matters is ability cost and what happens to the frame when invisibly runs out. In terms of ability cost, Ash's smoke screen costs very little energy, especially when you add a Streamline mod... To put it simply, it costs less than a single energy orb. If you add an Energy Siphon to your ASH, this makes the actual cost of ASH's stealth attack pretty much negligible, as you'll restore about as much Energy during the 20 second duration from the aura that you used to trigger the abilities. This allows Ash to turn invisible using a single energy globe in Nightmare missions, and it also plays very well into the synergy with the Rage mod, which i'll get into later. In contrasts, Loki's ability might last a little longer, but it costs more, meaning a single energy orb is not enough to recharge the meter and trigger it in most cases. This can be really bad in nightmare missions and in tough spots, as it's one thing to grab a single orb in a tough spot, but the odds of finding two are not always so good . Also, since Loki is so frail without his invisibility, once his invisibility falls down, he's exposed and will die from most high level enemies. Meanwhile, without his invisibility, Ash is as durable as most other frames and can withstand a beating like everyone else in the map. You can also factor specific conditions like getting all your energy drained by ancients disruption. Ash will simply have to survive for a few seconds dodging and trying to acquire a single energy orb while Loki will be left with his pants down trying to salvage two energy orbs as fast as possible before getting killed. Then there's the Rage Mod, which synergies perfectly with ASH. See that gigantic 1000 HP pool of health. Put a Rage mode and the minute your shield goes down, your energy gets back up immediately, allowing an immediate recharge of your Energy Pool and to recast the very cheap invisibility with even minimal damage taken to your health. Heck, this can be used to bypass the "no energy" condition in Nightmare maps too, as you get hit once and generate enough Energy to run your invisibility. Your shield heals up after being turned invisible, and a single charged attack from a high damage melee weapon with the life steal mode will fully recharge your HP, making Ash pretty much immortal. I mean, to kill him, you have to deplete his energy, deplete his 600 and plus shield, then deplete his 1000 and above HP pool, which triggers the return of his energy and allows him to shield himself of further attacks since , guess what, he has a smoke screen stun attack allowing him to cast even when surrounded.

 

Meanwhile Loki's invisibility runs out, he's left pretty much defenseless, especially when surrounded by enemies. He has very low HP and Shields, meaning he'll get maimed and killed by high level enemies in a few seconds. Even with Rage, due to his minuscule shield and hp pool, plus the higher cost of his ability, he probably will get killed before he can regenerate enough Energy to trigger his invisibility, making him dead.

 

In the end, this is why Ash beats him. I can stand surrounded by hard hitting enemies and melee them to death at 3X the damage while being pretty much immortal and knowing that when my invisibility gets out, I can stun them back up with my smokescreen and continue the cycle. Loki has neither the buffer to take the damage, nor the utility to stunlock while casting his invisibility... Plus all the details mentioned above... I can even do so in Nightmare with some of the worse conditions. No Shield.. I have my health. No energy... I can get hit and restore my energy pool, or just tank it out like any other frame. Add the Sentinel's ability to restore your shield and you got yourself a character that will hardy die and be constantly reviving your teammates.

 

I'll be the first one to admit I only use Smoke Screen on my ASH. Blade Storm is not worth it even with the current fix , Teleport is pretty useless and I'd rather a gun to shoot something than use Shuriken and waste energy from my Smoke Screen Pool. One would think a frame with 3 kinda useless abilities would be bad, but with ASH, you're getting a Tanky frame that can deal 3X the damage while impervious to most attacks and that won't get one shotted by random mods once his invisibility runs off like Loki does . The only weakness he has is in regards to crowd control (basically defense missions against ranged foes)... But still ,being able to one shot everything while cloaked using the Dragon Ninkana or Dakra Prime and Clear whole rooms of enemies makes up for any alt you can throw. Melee 2.0 has been kind to Ash... And while I can understand why one would prefer a high-risk glass canon like Loki, overall as a stealth frame / melee powerhouse, ASH beats Loki by a mile imho... You just need a couple formas to make him tailored for stealth.

 

In the end, no matter how much you mod your Loki, he will always one of the frailest frame in the game , while Ash can be turned into the tankiest frame in the game. Heck, when even Rhino's Iron Skin starts to fall apart, Ash is still invisible and kicking @$$, reviving teammates in map hotspots while being totally impervious to damage. And while I can see the utility of radial disarm, I don't really get the point of getting a stealth frame that cannot really survive in melee range due to being a glass canon only because of an utility that is outclassed by stuff from Nix and other frames.

Your Reasoning FOR Loki Being Bad IS ONLY Based Off what a bad player would do. A good loki finds health and shields negligible and goes full glass cannon. They keep an eye on the timer knowing when to reposition and cloak under safety, not in a middle of a crowd. Weapons still kill faster than Ash's abilities in a majority of situations and again utility outweighs damage abilities.

You are comparing an ant to a god. Literally in this case.

[Z123FFSS89]

Ash is/was my favorite warframe until I got Loki prime. So Loki prime forever. I only use ash for t4 key farming. Also, because they both have invisibility doesn't mean they should be compared together. Ash is a damage dealer and Loki utility...I wouldn't bother getting ash prime unless he looked better than Loki prime cause....gold. :3

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

Still, I forgot to mention the two worse things about Loki in regards to his invisibility... It makes you basically deaf and covers your visibility in yellow motion blurry visual effects. As a long time ASH fan, whenever I try to give Loki Prime some love, I just can't because of those two factors... The sound is my biggest pet peeve, it feels like Loki's head is submerged in an aquarium, and it removes the situational awareness of being able to pinpoint where the sounds are coming from. I'm playing with high quality headphones for just that, and I rely on situational awareness to find and hunt my targets efficiently while cloaked... I though DE was supposed to fix this a long time ago... Guess they didn't.

 

And the yellow visual filter is rather annoying too, particularly because it blurs peripheral vision and turns everything yellow. Since Loki is pretty much required to be invisible all time, that means you're constantly playing with the sound muted and with a yellow filter with blurry peripheral vision... I don't get how you guys love it so much. I'll gladly recast my invisibility spell once more time per minute over this assault to the senses. Ash's invisibility has neither of those drawbacks... Making it less grating on the senses.

 

I mean, I'm like everyone , I'm trying to love my Loki Prime cause I worked my &amp;#&#33; making him. But when I lose my 4 daily revives in a single Solo Nightmare Run on Pluto with the no shield condition due to him not having a big enough HP pool to take a couple of shots from Grineer, or when I get one shotted by meleeing a single high level poison ancient, I miss my Ash's ability to tank and actually be pretty much invincible