An Exploration Of The Representation Of Gender/sex In Warframe (Authorised Redux)

[Corvid]

First of all, please understand that I sought (and received) DE's approval before I restarted this topic.

 

Second, I would prefer it if everyone would keep their language civil and respectful, lest the topic be closed a second time.

 

Now that that is out of the way, here is an edited (hopefully improved) version of the old topic's original post:

 

Hello, fellow Tenno. I wish to ask what your opinions are on the representations of Male frames vs Female frames.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but this is for a piece of work exploring gender representation in video games that I'm doing in College.

 

My take on the matter is as follows:

 

Warframe stands out to me as an example of well-done characters across the genders because it does not make a distinction between them when it comes to battlefield roles. Every character archetype has a match (for example, the tanks (Rhino and Valkyr) and the mobility/survivability specialists (Volt and Zephyr)), and the only divergences are the means by which they achieve their archetype (to take the above example, Rhino forms a protective shell, while Valkyr flies into a hysterical rage).

 

This shows (to me, at least) that the only difference between the genders is the frame's selection of powers, something that is already a part of the game's mechanics.

 

As far as Sexualisation goes, the line becomes blurred somewhat. While there is no blatant fanservice (a consequence of having all of the characters completely covered up head to toe), and the frames (both male and female) all have varied body types, the fact that fanart of the male frames tends to lean more towards the epic, or spiritual side of the game, while fanart of the female frames tends to lean towards the more sexual end of the spectrum. I don't believe that this is DE's fault, but the infamous "Ember Agile" animation does call it into question.

 

Remember, please keep the discussion respectful.

 

Edit: If you had a post in the original thread, feel free to copy/paste it here.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Corvid

[Kartumterek]

Everything is fine

[Corvid]

Everything is fine

 

Ah, welcome back!

[DeathKoala]

More codpieces a-la Zephyr.

[PeripheralVisionary]

I heard the Tenno were stated to be genderless by DE.

I would like proof.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Copied from your original thread, although I think my point still stands:

 

As stated in your revised OP, gender nowadays is a very broad term, and in a game like Warframe where players can characterize and roleplay their Tenno any way they wish, it's pretty impossible to come to a specific conclusion. As for the topic of the biological sex of each Tenno (I will refer to them as Tenno, not Warframes, as Warframes are merely suits), I'd say Digital Extremes has done an excellent job of fairly representing each one visually while also giving them a purpose in gameplay.

 

While many of the female Tenno have more skintight Warframes than the males, the most recent female, Zephyr (and to a lesser extent, Saryn) seem to be DE's way of experimenting with different shapes of armor in addition to bulk. Body shape has been really diverse with female Tenno, despite the fact they all roughly fall into the "thin/fit" category, but this can easily be explained by the sheer amount of running and activity in-game. As for the male Tenno, they're a bit ahead in terms of design, but it's really nothing to worry about. Hydroid, for example, seems to be an experiment into bulkier sizes.

 

And then there is the gameplay bit. Although it isn't quite a problem nowadays, powers and abilities in videogames were actually very gender specific. It used to be females were typically the healers, archers, and support, and stayed away from the fighting while males were the berserkers and warriors and got into the thick of it. With Warframe, it's all mixed and matched. Everyone, regardless of biological sex, can do as much damage in combat as anyone else, and the powers and abilities of each Warframe helps to show the diversity. For example, Valkyr is a berserker, yet female. Oberon is a support, yet male.

 

tl;dr: Digital Extremes has done one of the better jobs of gender/sex representation visually and in terms of gameplay I've seen, specifically in Warframe, and I'm looking forward to see how and where they take it next.

[Radford_343]

I think the combination of having warframes that completely covers their body, coupled with the fact that no playable warframe has a personality per se (they do not speak or do anything other than jumping down air ducts and such without player interaction) makes the warframes sort of a blank piece of paper on which we, the players can paint our own images.

 

In many cases, I think people see what they want to see. I know we have some lore regarding Ember and Mag, and I'm sure there is more to come, but they do not really elaborate much on their personality. I like to think that is on done on purpose.

 

As far as gender roles ingameplay, DE has spread it out pretty evenly. I would expect nothing less in 2014, but sadly the gaming industry has a lot of catching up to do on that front.

 

EDIT: See PsychedelicSnake's response a few posts up, it nicely sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Radford_343

[LoopStricken]

the fact that fanart of the male frames tends to lean more towards the epic, or spiritual side of the game, while fanart of the female frames tends to lean towards the more sexual end of the spectrum .

 

This happens in everything, ever. EVER.

Human nature, I suppose.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Genders play absolutely no role in playstyle they are purely cosmetic. The only real distinguishing factor is really in the idle animations showing femininity and masculinity. That is fine by me they are all ruthless savage mass murderers and Valkyr looks to be the toughest of the bunch so there is that... I think it's fine. Doesn't rustle one jimmy. 

[PsychedelicSnake]

In many cases, I think people see what they want to see. I know we have some lore regarding Ember and Mag, and I'm sure there is more to come, but they do not really elaborate much on their personality. I like to think that is on done on purpose.

This is my thinking as well. And I agree that when it comes to the Warframes, people see what they want to see.

[GlamourChariot]

The difference between primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

 

Edit: Wow. I got ninja'd. With the same terminology, too!

 

They shouldn't even count as a sexual characteristic, they literally just exist to feed babies. Men have nipples, why can they show them and women can't?

 

Even then, you'd think they'd block the primary and not the (made up) "secondary".

[PeripheralVisionary]

As far as gender roles ingameplay, DE has spread it out pretty evenly. I would expect nothing less in 2014, but sadly the gaming industry has a lot of catching up to do on that front.

There's a lot more action girls in gaming. I'm pretty satisfied with the current state of things.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

But valkyr gains power from her anger potently giving the vibes of women and their ability to over use emotion. This is coming from a guy btw

[Corvid]

This happens in everything, ever. EVER.

Human nature, I suppose.

 

I realise, and I recognise that it's not DE's fault. However, it's an aspect of the discussion, hence why I included it.

 

They shouldn't even count as a sexual characteristic, they literally just exist to feed babies. Men have nipples, why can they show them and women can't?

 

Even then, you'd think they'd block the primary and not the (made up) "secondary".

 

Are male breasts functional? Aside from some fringe cases, they aren't. Also, primary/secondary/tertiary sexual characteristics aren't necessarily about intercourse, rather, they are traits of males and females.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Corvid

[PsychedelicSnake]

But valkyr gains power from her anger potently giving the vibes of women and their ability to over use emotion. This is coming from a guy btw

That's reading too much into it. Another person believed that her power "Hysteria" promoted the idea that women are over-emotional, which is a ridiculous.

[LoopStricken]

 

 In many cases, I think people see what they want to see. I know we have some lore regarding Ember and Mag, and I'm sure there is more to come, but they do not really elaborate much on their personality. I like to think that is on done on purpose. 

 

 

I'd say that that is what the stances are for. I don't think anyone can look at Ember's noble idles and not imagine her as a cocky, spunky lass.

[PsychedelicSnake]

I'd say that that is what the stances are for. I don't think anyone can look at Ember's noble idles and not imagine her as a cocky, spunky lass.

I think that might also be the reason the Devs are looking into making Idles share-able across Warframes. It further adds to the idea that the player is projecting whatever personality they want into the Tenno.

[PeripheralVisionary]

I don't see why a minority of people even call for distaff counterparts of certain frames. This game does not nearly put enough emphasis on gender as more "fashionable" games, like Mabinogi.

That is it, gender to the average warframe player is irrelevant because of the lack of emphasis. The warframes are not dolls.

Edited July 17, 2014 by PeripheralVisionary

[PsychedelicSnake]

 The warframes aren't dolls nor avatars.

Well, technically they are Avatars, but more in the sense that they are a blank piece of paper for the player to write whatever they wish. This isn't a bad thing, by the way.

[GlamourChariot]

I realise, and I recognise that it's not DE's fault. However, it's an aspect of the discussion, hence why I included it.

 

 

Are male breasts functional? Aside from some fringe cases, they aren't. Also, primary/secondary/tertiary sexual characteristics aren't necessarily about intercourse, rather, they are traits of males and females.

 

Because women with breasts that don't work are absolutely accepted and men with "working" ones aren't, right?

 

Nah. The former still can't show hers and the latter can still show his.

 

Try again.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Well, technically they are Avatars, but more in the sense that they are a blank piece of paper for the player to write whatever they wish. This isn't a bad thing, by the way.

Edited for accuracy, tyvm.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Are male breasts functional? Aside from some fringe cases, they aren't. Also, primary/secondary/tertiary sexual characteristics aren't necessarily about intercourse, rather, they are traits of males and females.

I thought with enough stimulation, they can be.

[CaptainJohnson]

They shouldn't even count as a sexual characteristic, they literally just exist to feed babies. Men have nipples, why can they show them and women can't?

 

-snip-

 

The jury's actually still out on whether breasts should be considered a "sexual organ" or not, which is often overlooked. We can all agree that male nipples and female nipples hold different purposes, but neurologists haven't mapped out all of the neurological responses to stimuli on male nipples, but if you're interested, here's an article from PsychologyToday that talks briefly about the issue.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201305/sexual-wiring-womens-breasts

 

I hope this is alright to link here because it's relevant to the topic and I am intending to be as factual as possible with a delicate subject.

[LoopStricken]

I think that might also be the reason the Devs are looking into making Idles share-able across Warframes. It further adds to the idea that the player is projecting whatever personality they want into the Tenno.

 

And I am entirely for that.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

But valkyr gains power from her anger potently giving the vibes of women and their ability to over use emotion. This is coming from a guy btw

That might be reading too much into even given the historic diagnosis involved with a term like hysteria. I think she got tortured and is really cheesed off about it. If it was time for a male frame to be released he could have the exact same "story". Though the conversation is often colored by the fact that if you want to be offended it is easy to find offenses.