An Exploration Of The Representation Of Gender/sex In Warframe (Authorised Redux)

[Radford_343]

Wat.

 

I am looking at the 'frames right now and I have no idea what either of you are talking about. Do we really need to discuss every single 'frame here, 'cause I'm down with that if people are still seriously thinking that this is a thing.

 

Call it an observation. Re-read the post I quoted and tell me that poster is wrong. Yeah, the female frames in general (not all, trinity is one of the exceptions I'd say) have less ornaments and decoration that disguises their clearly female bodyshape than their male counterparts. That's all.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Radford_343

[PeripheralVisionary]

another thing to remember is that, the artists making the characters in both games and comics, are predominently straight males,

( i actually dont have any proof of this, just call it a hunch)

Barely.

It's pandering to the lowest tastes. I mean, look at all the recent anime.

[CaptainJohnson]

We live in a time, where women are out and about on the job market, have high posts in politics and in corporations etc etc..

They do extreme sports like rock climbing, Paragliding and martial arts, just as good as men do,..

my point being, that females can do exactly the same things as men can, and we live in a time, where they are allowed to show it..

I always liked the strong independant female arch type, and like their roles in WF. as equals to the men..

 

But in videogames and comics, (and many movies for that matter) they are often also portrayed as somewhat more sexual than their male counterparts, i guess its a relic of the time when videogames and comics was mostly played/read by young males, (and probally still is)

another thing to remember is that, the artists making the characters in both games and comics, are predominently straight males,

 

Fiction does not necessarily match reality. Sexualization does not equal discrimination or sexism.

 

This line of thought is entirely irrelevant, especially in the context of Warframe, where what you're describing is extremely contrived and plainly doesn't exist within the confines of the game unless you make up a reason that it is.

 

 

Call it an observation. Re-read the post I quoted and tell me that poster is wrong. Yeah, the female frames in general (not all, trinity is one of the exceptions I'd say) have less ornaments and decoration that disguises their clearly female bodyshape than their male counterparts. That's all.

 

I've read the post thrice now and can definitely tell you that the poster is wrong. I don't see any validity in their argument whatsoever and a careful inspection of the 'frames reveals that your generalizations are either entirely false or completely blown out of proportion.

[CaptainJohnson]

-snip-

 

( i actually dont have any proof of this, just call it a hunch)

 

"Hunches" don't really have any place within a context of an in-depth discussion of a serious topic like this.

[GlamourChariot]

"Hunches" don't really have any place within a context of an in-depth discussion of a serious topic like this.

 

Pretty sure there have been some studies with almost identical results and Asian / White men made up both the majority of developers and spending consumers, but all studies should obviously be taken with a grain of salt and I don't even have links for citation.

[Corvid]

Wow, you're quite the cynic.

 

Quite the opposite, actually. I just understand DE's stance on the matter.

 

I disagree with you, but I think you did a much better job with this version of the OP.  Well done, Corvid.

 

I suppose that this is the best I could hope for from you. Care to join the discussion?

[natty762]

"Hunches" don't really have any place within a context of an in-depth discussion of a serious topic like this.

 

I do agree that the post isn't all that relevant since this is warframe-specific, but since this is a discussion and his post isn't offensive, having a hunch could be a discussion point, and that's what this thread is all about.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Quite the opposite, actually. I just understand DE's stance on the matter.

I misunderstood, sorry.

[CaptainJohnson]

I do agree that the post isn't all that relevant since this is warframe-specific, but since this is a discussion and his post isn't offensive, having a hunch could be a discussion point, and that's what this thread is all about.

 

I don't really care if something is offensive or not (I follow George Carlin on this one), but I don't think it's fair to make a serious assertion like that about the artistic developers and to back it up with "just a hunch" rather than any actual proof.

 

Especially when their whole zinger is "well they're probably a straight white male so of course their designs are going to be sexualized" as if that's somehow not discrimination. That may not have been what the poster explicitly stated but it's the essence of their argument and I think it's an extremely unfair assessment.

[(PSN)Folkeye]

I think De is doing a better job than most at least. Nothing ruins immersion for me as much as female "armor" in most games. I often want to yell, "Who the hell makes armor that will drive a glancing blow directly into their sternum!!!" And I'm a dude.

 

Yeah, I'll agree with that, fantasy female armor for the most part has nothing to do with protective qualities. Thankfully the ladies of WF are mostly diverse enough in their shape, so that helps. They're what I deem 'sexy' but not truly ridiculous and unrealistic. Still not as wild as the guys though.

 

I'll admit that I'm just as bad as the guys (wellllll.....sort of). I prefer playing with male characters since I generally want something pleasing to my eye (though I don't like the over the top male body type either). I prefer looking at  the male form over the female, so yeah! But hey, on a lighter note I'll have my first female Warframe built tonight. Finally got all pieces to build one. So yay, diversity!

Edited July 17, 2014 by (PS4)Folkeye

[natty762]

I don't really care if something is offensive or not (I follow George Carlin on this one), but I don't think it's fair to make a serious assertion like that about the artistic developers and to back it up with "just a hunch" rather than any actual proof.

 

Especially when their whole zinger is "well they're probably a straight white male so of course their designs are going to be sexualized" as if that's somehow not discrimination. That may not have been what the poster explicitly stated but it's the essence of their argument and I think it's an extremely unfair assessment.

 

Ah, I see where you are coming from. Fair enough.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The female frames are very sexualized when compared to the male frames. I understand this is because the majority of core gamers are still male. I also do not have a problem with it, but objectively, I see it.

 

There is one exception that proves the rule, Zephyr.  Her design is the only one of the female frames that is more inline with designs of the male frames. It shows that DE is capable of making female characters with the same aesthetics as the male characters, that being fanciful space armor that  does not simply drawn focus onto the female's erogenous zones, yet they simply choose not to do so.

[Pirate_Shark]

 I am a female gamer much like some of the females at DE who play Warframe. Yes its common that female gamers look like them just like average people and you might think that is rare. Let me tell you that its not. I think calling anything in this game sexualized is over the top and rubs me the wrong way. Choose your words carefully or you may offend somebody who likes free expression. If for example I wanted to wear a Valkyr suit in real life I have every right to do so even if it is super tight. I have the right to express my body type and show it off if I want to. Yeah I have a similar body type to Valkyr and ember just not as strong but so what? They have common body types. I don't see the problem here. I do take offense to trying to say something is sexual in a game when its not. We have a right to be sexy as females in games just like guys have every right to be sexy in a different way such as manly. I could argue Rhinos body is too manly sexy in some areas but that's just silly to me. lol Its about as bad as saying a female is too sexy.

 

I stand up for my rights and my free expression. I think you all who don't like it should get over it. Nobody is even showing any skin in this game and you complain about shapes are too sexy. (Well if that is so then Rhino is just too big! LOL *Joking*) I am trying to express my thoughts by showing you an example of what sexualized can be like in the Male side of a Warframe. If you tell me a female warframe is too sexy, I will just point you to Rhino because that is the perfect example of a sexy/Manly Male and could just as well be argued for the very same reasons you all complain about female warframes. >_>; I'm sorry but I like everything Just the way it is in warframe. We don't need  any real life drama being put into the game.

 

"The body was meant to be seen, not all covered up." Best quote form my gender ever because she was famous and all about free expression.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Yeah, I'll agree with that, fantasy female armor for the most part has nothing to do with protective qualities. Thankfully the ladies of WF are mostly diverse enough in their shape, so that helps. They're what I deem 'sexy' but not truly ridiculous and unrealistic. Still not as wild as the guys though.

 

I'll admit that I'm just as bad as the guys (wellllll.....sort of). I prefer playing with male characters since I generally want something pleasing to my eye (though I don't like the over the top male body type either). I prefer looking at  the male form over the female, so yeah! But hey, on a lighter note I'll have my first female Warframe built tonight. Finally got all pieces to build one. So yay, diversity!

I have them all and can't really pick a favorite. But other than colors and lighting effects I can't think of the frames in any way other than he or she looks cool KILL KILL KILL

[Rajko]

I've seen quite a few posters on the forum talk about Volt's "fabulousness", that might be an interesting topic of discussion.

It's noble pose does have more colorful body language than the other stances.

Edited, some might not identify Volt as male. Id say volt actually approaches androgyny in it's design.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Rajko

[Beas7ie]

That's reading too much into it. Another person believed that her power "Hysteria" promoted the idea that women are over-emotional, which is a ridiculous.

 

I'm sure DE wasn't aiming towards that, but come on man, haven't you ever seen your mom/sister/girlfriend/any female friend/ any female at all extremely pissed off?  It wouldn't be too insane to say they're not far off.

 

I might need some flame repellent. 

[Vazfer]

Saryn has great chest ornaments.
Excalibur has a nice booty.
I think DE did well when it comes to sex equality here.


But in all seriousness, every single frame is useful in the game I find, no matter if it's supposedly male or female. Plus, we do have an effeminate male frame (Fabulous Volt *eye twinkle*) and Zephyr is pretty androgynous too.

 

VoltxZephyr OTP (Either that or they're siblings. Though that said, it's never stopped Tumblr.)

Edited July 17, 2014 by Vazfer

[Corvid]

Saryn has great chest ornaments.

Excalibur has a nice booty.

I think DE did well when it comes to sex equality here.

But in all seriousness, every single frame is useful in the game I find, no matter if it's supposedly male or female. Plus, we do have an effeminate male frame (Fabulous Volt *eye twinkle*) and Zephyr is pretty androgynous too.

 

VoltxZephyr OTP (Either that or they're siblings.)

 

Why did I tell you about this thread?

[GlamourChariot]

I'm sure DE wasn't aiming towards that, but come on man, haven't you ever seen your mom/sister/girlfriend/any female friend/ any female at all extremely &!$$ed off?  It wouldn't be too insane to say they're not far off.

 

I might need some flame repellent. 

 

Given you did that knowing full well why you were wrong, yeah.

[PeripheralVisionary]

I'm sure DE wasn't aiming towards that, but come on man, haven't you ever seen your mom/sister/girlfriend/any female friend/ any female at all extremely &!$$ed off?  It wouldn't be too insane to say they're not far off.

 

I might need some flame repellent. 

I've seen other guys pissed off. It's not pretty either.

[Rajko]

Gotta agree, gender doesnt make much difference in how an enraged person behaves.

[Kartumterek]

She reminds me a bit of Vasquez from Aliens strangely enough.

 

 

Goddess among warriors, up there in the Pantheon with Joan of Arc

[D3ST]

"Hunches" don't really have any place within a context of an in-depth discussion of a serious topic like this.

Dude, i really couldent be bothered to argue with you all night, you seem more interrested in assulting everyone elses opinions than your own..

HF doing that, 

[ArbitUHM]

Just my .02 (and this is just Warframe)

 

The only issue I have is that even though they are all covered head to toe, the men tend to have much more elaboration and pieces to their costume all over their body while they do what they can to keep the women 'sexy' and simple with less parts adorning them in key areas. So that's how it's easier to sexualize the ladies. The women tend to have a tight style body suit that shows them off at all angles, while the guys have a varied range of design. They can have the tight form fitting suit (here's to you Excalibur) or all out, elegant, non form showing coverage (hi Frost) and everything in between from sleek to pointy, simple to wild. So its skewed in that manner to me. 

 

But that's always been my point of view as a female gamer. Men can look like anything in the world, while women still have to be presented in a certain light to please the men playing. So yeah, that's not going to change any time soon unfortunately.  Boys=no constraint, Women= still sexual objects even if we try to pretend you're not.

 

Be it the Tenno are Male/Female/Genderless/Whatever, it's the visual of what we see. The shapes are obviously female/male by design due to what we're familiar with.

I agree.  Generally, the females have a "bodysuit with some doodads on top" kind of aesthetic.  For several of them, the suit is tight fitting to the point you can see abdominal definition or even what appear to be veins.  The male frames tend to have a more clothed appearance.  Check out this pic, which admittedly doesn't have all the frames (I couldn't find one with all frames on it)

Frost, Loki, and Rhino clearly have a "clothed" or "armored" sort of appearance where you can't see muscle definition (with Ash and Excalibur being the exceptions), whereas I'd argue that all the female frames shown here have a more bodysuit/unclothed sort of appearance.  I think if you add in the newer frames it doesn't get much better, with the noted exception of Zephyr.  And Nekros.  While he sports a skin tight suit, he is more of a gross skeleton man than anything. ;)

 

That being said, I agree with the general feeling that Warframe's representation of women is better than the average video game.  They have a wide variety of roles, including the ones that are typically associated with men i.e. tanks, they all look combat ready, and the range of represented body types is more extensive than usual.

[Corvid]

I agree.  Generally, the females have a "bodysuit with some doodads on top" kind of aesthetic.  For several of them, the suit is tight fitting to the point you can see abdominal definition or even what appear to be veins.  The male frames tend to have a more clothed appearance.  Check out this pic, which admittedly doesn't have all the frames (I couldn't find one with all frames on it)

Frost, Loki, and Rhino clearly have a "clothed" or "armored" sort of appearance where you can't see muscle definition (with Ash and Excalibur being the exceptions), whereas I'd argue that all the female frames shown here have a more bodysuit/unclothed sort of appearance.  I think if you add in the newer frames it doesn't get much better, with the noted exception of Zephyr.  And Nekros.  While he sports a skin tight suit, he is more of a gross skeleton man than anything. ;)

 

That being said, I agree with the general feeling that Warframe's representation of women is better than the average video game.  They have a wide variety of roles, including the ones that are typically associated with men i.e. tanks, they all look combat ready, and the range of represented body types is more extensive than usual.

 

Mind if I use this image in my report?