Miasma As It Should Be; A... Miasma.

[taiiat]

Saryn's other Powers get plenty of attention, so i'm focusing on the one that is generally ignored here.

(however, aside from the rest of the thread, both Decoy Powers could have a slowing Effect to all Enemies nearby them, giving them Utility on top of just distracting bullets, but also could be used as a debuff for Enemies - but that's another thread!)

 

Miasma as it should be - a 'creeping death' encroaching cloud of dissolving poisons.

 

yeah yeah, Miasma could be argued as such currently, since it's an AoE Blast. it doesn't represent very well, and it's very, very similar to the other AoE Blasts in Warframe. 

which are all too generic(but that's another Thread), AoE Blasts aren't very engaging, all you can do with the Power is cast it. not enough active factors like some of the other Powers we have that really get people's heads cranking. offering thought and strategy to Players often results in it being eaten up happily.

 

 

so, i propose a 'Creeping Death' as a replacement to the current AoE Blast. completing the job in a much more elegant way, allowing for far more branching out than it does now. however, with some additions, to act like it implies it does, but also to fit the theme of Saryn, whilst bringing useful effects to all situations.

Miasma would, when cast, release a swirl of particles(particles are just what sounds neat, not a necessity) in the general area of Saryn. she will "spread it around" for a few seconds though, to give a little more coverage and to show that she is leaving this venemous, corrosive, acidic, viral nastiness behind. as the Power continues, the particles will spread, covering a wider and wider area. however, not in an exact circle, cylinder, or sphere. instead, these particles will spread as if they are a sentient gas, flowing through cracks in doors, flowing through vents, and the like. spreading towards opportunities, as well as spreading towards Enemies.

 

Enemies which are infected by Miasma, would writhe like they do now when affected by Miasma. affected Enemies would be points of growth, however. infected Enemies will 'spawn' another source for Miasma, probably at a portion of the stats as the original / previous to keep spreading from getting out of hand.

these Particles of caustic, dissolving infection will not spread through walls, instead will go through doorways and the like previously mentioned.

 

 

this is not an infinite Range Power. a Moderate Range for the initial cast, however relies on finding new Hosts to spawn from to continue spreading. if more Hosts cannot be found, the Power will wither and subside. withering consists of reducing Damage. once Damage goes under a threshold / reaches none, Miasma dissipates. this is a continuous process, however. dissipating at all times unless new Hosts are found.

 

Damage Ticks done over time, similar to like now. a long Duration Power, with low Damage per Tick, to match the 'Creeping Death' theme. this is not a "press 4 to win", this is still highly deadly, but is not an instantaneous action Power. 

Damage starts out very high, and goes down over time. every Tick is somewhat lower than the one before it. this gives Miasma some capability for quickly dishing out Damage, but most of it's Damage capacity resides in the number of times Damage is applied.

 

to represent the multitude of Toxins that fall under Saryns' control, i believe Miasma should be comprised of:

- a small amount of Viral

- Moderate amounts of Toxin and Gas (yes, both, just even amounts of each)

- large amounts of Corrosive

a mix such as 10/20/20/50 could be very reasonable.

 

all of these different Damage Types would tally together to make an under average Damage per Tick.

tag team this with a moderate Status Chance. since Ticks will be happening on Enemies fairly often, a lower Chance like 15% may be appropriate.

Enemies under the effect of Miasma are slowed a bit to represent the pain and may be Staggered at periodic intervals while they are Infected. Enemies under the effect of Miasma cannot be 'reinfected'. in other words, doesn't stack.

 

one Tick per second of Duration on Miasma.

 

Mod Effects. certainly not set in concrete, but i feel this arrangement allows for maximum variety and player choice.

- would be a 100E Power as usual.

- Power Strength works as expected, mostly. increases Damage dealt per Tick, however also slows the withering rate if Hosts cannot be found. also controls the speed of the particles, allowing Power Strength to increase the speed of seeking Enemies. default seeking speed may be appropriate around 30m/s.

- Power Duration controls the seeking distance, as it will seek in directions for longer. 30 Second Duration standard is probably acceptable, but hard to say without seeing in practice.

- Power Range dictates how far Enemies which are Infected can Infect others. 10m Radius standard is probably acceptable, but hard to say.

 

extra notes. not sure how many are good ideas.

- increase speed of spreading in the Direction Saryn is moving as the time of casting, if moving?

- could be a Continuous Power, but then it would have less playstyles inside it, as the Energy upkeep would allow it to spread indefinitely.

- Enemy slowing could be controlled by Power Strength, but for once, i feel like i'd rather it be a locked attribute, rather than one that we could tweak, and thusly make negative due to the low slowing amount it would start at as that wouldn't be it's primary goal, just a nice side effect.

 

 

 

overall, trying to create something that fits the theme and function suggestions better, while also bringing more to the table, in different ways. as all Powers should be able to be useful in some manner regardless of the situation.

 

Miasma is... usable as it is currently, but like some other Powers, just doesn't really bring much to the table, and doesn't engage the Player when using very well. i know that Digital Extremes wants to get the Player thinking and making decisions in Warframe, so this rebuilt Power does exactly that.

i would've had visual aids but.... i'm the opposite of an artist, now way i'd be able to draw what i'm explaining :D

[XenosInfinity]

Interesting concept, but horrifically overpowered in defense missions. One cast at the right time could end up disintegrating an entire wave.

[Marthrym]

Interesting concept, but horrifically overpowered in defense missions. One cast at the right time could end up disintegrating an entire wave.

It can already do that pretty well as it is right now.^^

Sure it won't instagib a heavy past level 40, but it will stun+damage it enough to dispatch it easily.

[MrA1]

I want this

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

No. I like my Miasma as it is: the strongest AOE Warframe ult in the game.

[EversorNinja]

This is an amazing example of a well thought out, thematic, and powerful ability. Miasma as it is just got so much less interesting :D

[taiiat]

Interesting concept, but horrifically overpowered in defense missions. One cast at the right time could end up disintegrating an entire wave.

does any AoE Blast not fit that bill? :s

 

No. I like my Miasma as it is: the strongest AOE Warframe ult in the game.

you do realize that in the general scheme of things, operating on these mechanics makes Miasma 'stronger'. but actually be engaging to use.

 

 

contrary to popular belief, Warframe can be more than just a squad of 4 Tenno asleep casting Powers from time to time wiping the map. it can still have the same feel, but do so in a way that actually wakes up your brain.

 

Miasma as it is just got so much less interesting :D

hah! i know, right?

Edited July 17, 2014 by taiiat

[ensignvidiot]

Im in support of this. However, I would like the concept more if it ticked significantly fast, or for high amounts of damage. I am spending anywhere from 25-150 energy for this power, In addition to its awesome effect, I would like it to do a satisfying amount of damage.

 

I am super digging the 'semi-sentient gas' bit, though i think it'd be a bit too complex for DE to pull off. All other changes would be welcome to Saryn IMO

 

Interesting concept, but horrifically overpowered in defense missions. One cast at the right time could end up disintegrating an entire wave.

 

Nova says 'hi', as does Hydroid.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

you do realize that in the general scheme of things, operating on these mechanics makes Miasma 'stronger'. but actually be engaging to use.

 

 

contrary to popular belief, Warframe can be more than just a squad of 4 Tenno asleep casting Powers from time to time wiping the map. it can still have the same feel, but do so in a way that actually wakes up your brain.

 

DE already have too much on their plate. Don't fix what isn't broken.

[taiiat]

Don't fix what isn't broken.

Miasma has always been broken. as soon as it stops instakilling Enemies, it's not of much use anymore. i still keep it around for the Stun, but that's about it.

 

Miasma was never a good Power, just an AoE Blast that Ticked a few times.

 

Edit:

but it could be so much more, like all Powers could be. useful no matter what, and making a good show at the same time.

Edited July 17, 2014 by taiiat

[Taikaponi]

Interesting concept, but horrifically overpowered in defense missions. One cast at the right time could end up disintegrating an entire wave.

 

I think DE said that Saryn is supposed to be purely a DPS frame. Currently most abilities suffer too much from the scaling armor of the Grineer, so a buff would definitely be nice.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

Miasma has always been broken. as soon as it stops instakilling Enemies, it's not of much use anymore. i still keep it around for the Stun, but that's about it.

 

Miasma was never a good Power, just an AoE Blast that Ticked a few times.

Miasma was never a good power? By that logic then all AOE ults from frames aren't good powers seeing as Miasma is the best one out there, and quite a few of them have simple AOE ults.

 

Besides you're missing my main point. Miasma is fine where it stands. It might get tweaks later, but for now many many things should be worked on before  Saryn's ult.

[Kamal965]

DE already have too much on their plate. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

That's just stupid. If we didn't strive to improve, where would Warframe be now?

 

This is a great concept - and with some tweaking, I'm sure it'd be a wonderful replacement for the current Miasma.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

That's just stupid. If we didn't strive to improve, where would Warframe be now?

 

This is a great concept - and with some tweaking, I'm sure it'd be a wonderful replacement for the current Miasma.

Sure. But everything in due time. There are plenty of things that should take precedence over something like this.

[taiiat]

Miasma was never a good power? By that logic then all AOE ults from frames aren't good powers

 

but for now many many things should be worked on before  Saryn's ult.

- exactly, AoE Blasts aren't good. they're bland. Warframe wants to be an ambitious game, back it up with Powers that are similarly ambitious.

 

- i covered that Miasma is far from the only Power in the need of some ambition pumped into it. *grunting finger point* \/

yeah yeah, Miasma could be argued as such currently, since it's an AoE Blast. it doesn't represent very well, and it's very, very similar to the other AoE Blasts in Warframe. 

which are all too generic(but that's another Thread), AoE Blasts aren't very engaging, all you can do with the Power is cast it. not enough active factors like some of the other Powers we have that really get people's heads cranking. offering thought and strategy to Players often results in it being eaten up happily.

[MechaKnight]

Nice thread! I've been away, so I haven't been on top of my Saryn thread for a while. I considered a gaseous implementation of Miasma, but didn't know how to go about planning it. I'll consider your ideas and see if I can think up something.

Edited July 18, 2014 by MechaKnight

[taiiat]

However, I would like the concept more if it ticked significantly fast, or for high amounts of damage. I am spending anywhere from 25-150 energy for this power, In addition to its awesome effect, I would like it to do a satisfying amount of damage.

oh, i forgot to touch on this.

 

well, it would do all of those, theoretically. the first Tick would be high Damage, and then taper off over time. a fairly long Duration would allow for Enemies to take a lot of Ticks, so the tapering Damage can still stack up, but do so over time.

[MechaKnight]

well, it would do all of those, theoretically. the first Tick would be high Damage, and then taper off over time. a fairly long Duration would allow for Enemies to take a lot of Ticks, so the tapering Damage can still stack up, but do so over time.

Fractionals and exponents are usually best avoided. It seems what you're describing is an impact zone of damage, and smaller ticks for every second after. The damage would be comparable in mechanic to Firestorm, but the spread mechanic for this approach to Miasma is the more difficult aspect to balance. It can just spread to a limited number of enemies within the impact zone.

[taiiat]

Fractionals and exponents are usually best avoided. It seems what you're describing is an impact zone of damage, and smaller ticks for every second after. The damage would be comparable in mechanic to Firestorm, but the spread mechanic for this approach to Miasma is the more difficult aspect to balance. It can just spread to a limited number of enemies within the impact zone.

confus

 

when an Enemy is Infested, they would start taking Damage Ticks instantly. the first one is high Damage, and tapers off over time.

 

Infested Enemies can Infect other Enemies nearby, which counts as a fresh Infection, also starting high Damage and tapering off. i mentioned keeping a bit of a clamp on Infection spreading so that it doesn't go in infinite loops and stack.

 

i think you're reading something different than what i'm writing.

[MechaKnight]

confus

 

when an Enemy is Infested, they would start taking Damage Ticks instantly. the first one is high Damage, and tapers off over time.

 

Infested Enemies can Infect other Enemies nearby, which counts as a fresh Infection, also starting high Damage and tapering off. i mentioned keeping a bit of a clamp on Infection spreading so that it doesn't go in infinite loops and stack.

 

i think you're reading something different than what i'm writing.

I think I'm seeing it now. So this form of Miasma would work similarly to a variant of Venom that spreads automatically to each target, and maybe has an AoE effect on it. At least that's what I think you're saying.

[LasersGoPewPew]

the "creeping death" replacement would be a buffed miasma, i don't see why people are saying "if it isn't broke don't fix it", because the initial blast could cause more CC/DoT which is what Saryns damage type is mostly about....DoTs.......

[Perserve]

this miasma sounds great. I love it! Really fits Saryn's description.

[taiiat]

and maybe has an AoE effect on it. At least that's what I think you're saying.

i wasn't thinking of any AoE to speak of at all, actually. only Enemies which are Infected can spread the Infection to others. but the Power wouldn't AoE between Enemies at all, unless it gets a Gas Effect from the Damage Composition.

 

so it acts kind've like an AoE, but it's dealing Damage directly to each Enemy, just spreads like a sentient plague.

[MechaKnight]

i wasn't thinking of any AoE to speak of at all, actually. only Enemies which are Infected can spread the Infection to others. but the Power wouldn't AoE between Enemies at all, unless it gets a Gas Effect from the Damage Composition.

 

so it acts kind've like an AoE, but it's dealing Damage directly to each Enemy, just spreads like a sentient plague.

My idea was probably more appropriate for Venom, especially considering the current hitbox issue where enemies die before you pop any spores. I assumed you were talking about an AoE for the spread ofMiasma, but rereading your opening post, it seems as though the gas would have intelligent AI like a melee-based NPC to find enemies. That's interesting, cool idea.

Edited July 19, 2014 by MechaKnight