Czarok Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The price isn't that steep and cosmetics for plat only is fine to me (although it seems you can get scrambles through breeding, which doesn't necessarily require plat, which is good). But having absolutely no control over what you get and not being able to revert if you don't like your new scramble is pretty harsh. There needs to be some measure of control, be it actually selecting A characteristic (pattern/color/body type/etc) to be guaranteed when you scramble or being able to revert to previous scrambles (maybe like one of the previous 5? or being able to select 1 as a revert option that is free and permanent and can be overwritten). I've spent a lot of plat already on this and I have jack to show for it. It's pretty frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I see what you mean but I was thinking you'd know PWE wouldn't give a fration of a F*** about the playerbase's reaction. Let us get back on topic before we go off from the tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKage Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) 600+ plat no black please DE sell me black kubrows with white lotus or at least another 50% discount on plat Edited July 21, 2014 by MrKage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytime Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) How about this: We chose whatever colors/patterns we want on the kubrows for one imprint and then we roll manually what DE gets as a price between 0-9 plat with a simple 1d10 and enter it ingame via form. Ok, serious now: Yes, this is a step into the WRONG direction. Beware. Color pallette Kubrow 250p, one pattern 100p? Ok, whatever. BUT STOP SLOT MASCHINE TRY PAYMENT MECHANICS After DE_Rebeccas real world analogy for gumballs I also give you an ingame analogy of how purchasing something you want works that you can also get through playing: Imagine you want Hate, Despair and/or Dread. Are you buying for the stalker to maybe appear and then maybe drop something??? Hell no. You buy his set. Full. And with colors. At a price, yes. If you want it, you can have it, right there 133% (extra 33% being the colors), one click away. If you are not ready to pay the price, take the RNG. Thats the mechanics I can live with and it seems it was quite succesful for you guys at DE aswell?! So whoever wants a special pattern / colors combo should be able to buy exactly that. At a price. But its 100% what the player wants and gets - at a price. But both, price and outcome, known beforehand by both partys for that deal. Whoever is not ready to pay, go take the RNG. STOP SLOT MASCHINE TRY PAYMENT MECHANICS Edit: Not spending a single plat on the slotmachine. Some more days until the disclosure agreement will end and maybe we get some news on the PWE front. Until then, this is the perfect indicator of how monetization is going to be handled for the new content. Because they wont touch the old, far to obivious. Edited July 21, 2014 by daytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachTrick Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 You don't use acrylic paint for your house! You don't use latex for your paint! Therefore, you can't paint Kubrows with stuff that you use for painting your @(*()$ frame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Players are going to see the flaw in it (which most of them have) and will stop buying it and spread the word about this, effectively cutting off revenue for DE(L) from the purchase of the current Kubrow Scrambler. That will make the Kubrow Scrambler be a large burst. And the suggestion is here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/236973-some-suggestions-to-improve-gameplay-edit-30-kubrow-scrambler-improvements-with-additional-suggestion/ (see EDIT 30) I don't see a flaw in this because cosmetics don't matter. The 'flaw' is that you don't get what you want immediately (or possibly ever). This system seem to be part of DE's attempt to make the Kubrow feel more alive/unique rather than like all the other things in this game where they are just an item for us to do with as we please. Personally, I'd rather the kubrow be exactly that (something I can do with as I please). I read through your suggestion but didn't really understand most of it (probably because I'm tired). I THINK I have an idea of what you're saying, but I'm not sure. Either way, I used what I got from reading that and combined it with some other stuff to come up with this suggestion (based on yours) The basic idea was scrambling=more genes for your gene bank=nice selection for your next hatched kubrow (probably should be free) or for use on your current kubrow for plat. Scrambler should be kept as is (10p per use) but should add to your gene pool. Imprints also add to your gene pool. Understand that PW's method of acquiring gear (in large part through lockboxes) is a large part of why PW has a bad reputation and why the community blew up when news came, second hand mind you, about a deal between PW and DE. It's something a vocal part of the community doesn't want to see. Things like this ultimately hurt DE's reputation with their community, as it has for PW. I could understand if this was an item you had to gamble platinum for, but it isn't. It is a cosmetic, and because of that I will likely not change my stance on this (not saying never because I'm not trying to be close minded). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkSpectre Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I agree with the OP, it is a very small, but extremely worrying addition that is very unwelcome. But I do disagree about the claim that the wait time to get things is increasing. I think people are forgetting about frames in clan tech and frame bps from alerts. Vauban came out roughly a year ago(if I remember correctly), and this by far could take the most amount of time. So having to wait an extra day to do the Mirage quest is no big deal at all, its hardly worth mentioning. Also people are forgetting how much of a pain it could be to farm up the banshee bps when she first came out. Edited July 21, 2014 by ClockworkSpectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The basic idea was scrambling=more genes for your gene bank=nice selection for your next hatched kubrow (probably should be free) or for use on your current kubrow for plat. Scrambler should be kept as is (10p per use) but should add to your gene pool. Imprints also add to your gene pool. The point of my suggestion is making Platinum purchases the way as it always is: When players use Platinum to buy something, they get what they want (or at least what is on the thing that they purchased). Your suggestion lessens it, but still will draw criticism for utilising Platinum + RNG (but in smaller amounts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The point of my suggestion is making Platinum purchases the way as it always is: When players use Platinum to buy something, they get what they want (or at least what is on the thing that they purchased). Your suggestion lessens it, but still will draw criticism for utilising Platinum + RNG (but in smaller amounts). I was trying to keep the feeling like kubrow are a living entity rather than a gun that I can paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--DieL Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_deadlock Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If you don't like this, vote with your wallet, not with your mouth, it doesn't matter if they see hundreds of complaints and after that they see how most of the people who are complaining still supporting that. However, don't take me wrong, a doing an active complaint it stills valid, good and necessary, but that's not enough. Voting with your wallet is only an effective method if maintaining the product for the company has a negative impact on their profits. This, does not. They can have it sitting in the corner for 100 years and it will never cut into profits enough to need changing. What they lose is potential income with customer interest. Unfortunately, this wouldn't display itself as "80% of out users do not buy this product" it would be "X amount of platinum has been purchased this quarter valued at X amount of $." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was trying to keep the feeling like kubrow are a living entity rather than a gun that I can paint. The Scramblers would still work like as it is currently, but just having an extension of a Precise Kubrow Scrambler. The genes would still be stored and stuff. So basically, nothing much changed towards the current Kubrow cosmetic mechanism, but an extension + slight modification to make it palatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractal_magnets Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 True. If it was for endgame the option to build the incubator wouldn't even appear until mastery 10+ No need to do Void runs for Argons and Control modules either. They drop in the new nodes of Mercury XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elucidator_Repulse Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It would be fun but could you imagine a fluro green or pink kubrow XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRastaban Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) i hate the that i have to pay 10 plat just to get some different color on my kubrow... why cant i just mix him up from my own color pallet ? and stuff like the "Lotus Kubrow" and so on, make it as a skin to it. Anyone agrees on what im trying to say over here? its just an presonal opinion. Please dont be rude my fellow tennos. I have to agree. I paid 10 plat like 3 or 4 times and 2 of those times my kubrow puppy was all white. There doesn't seem to be much there and it's a bit of a waste. Edited July 21, 2014 by xRastaban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 You pay the original Kubrow Scrambler for credits-only, the Precise Kubrow Scramber (where you get to choose the cosmetic genetic makeup) is platinum-only. All newly identified cosmetic genetic makeup elements will be saved for personal customisation. The idea of random customisation itself is unique to Warframe, not the paid for cash lottery. This credit scrambler thing, I could get on the bandwagon for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalsePride Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) i do agree to a point, i dont think the random colors and patterns should be charged in platinum. IMO theres should be 2 options: 1. the randomized color and pattern generator for X-amount of credits 2. a specific color and pattern customizer for plat. i can understand if they didnt make it customizable at the beginning, if they wanted the gene codes to be a unique trade market item so people couldnt just get the perfect kubrow right off the bat. (edit: i see theres a post quite like mine. sorry i didnt read through 15 pages =P) Edited July 21, 2014 by FalsePride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viverim Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 My first kubrow, I used the scramble once, came out with a pattern that was okay. My second kubrow, I used the scramble 4 times. Twice it turned back to all white. I don't like the final pattern, but I'm not spending any more platinum on them. Also, given how Kubrows are, two is all I am making. Now, from me, they got 50 plat for colors. If, on the other hand, they said "Hey, for 200 plat you can, as a one time purchase, pick your exact colors and pattern", I'd do that in a heartbeat and be happy about it. With the random thing? Yeah, not pleased AT ALL. which of these sounds like it has more longevity? The happy or unhappy purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalawantahr Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The smell of bullsh1t is strong! I sense PWE in the near future. Get use to gamble your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clazzeh Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Guys if colour choice was not random why would yuo ever need more than 4 kubrows or even genetic imprints for that matter, the colour scrambler is an option many online games use for a fee, mostly ones involving BREEDING and random colour generation, its meant to encourage you to trade, give you an element of randomness and maybe even see a set you werent expecting but still like! Its not a money pit, its cosmetic, doesnt affect your effectiveness in game and doesnt HAVE to be used, dont get a Kubrow you want, get a new one, or use genetic imprints to improve your odds! Sure Imprints dont give you a 100% garuntee but its not supposed to, its breeding, you will get some randomness and in my own opinion that is a good thing! Colourable Kubrow accesories sure, but the Kubrows, in being random, have that always unique look about them, provided more varieties are added in the future too as I will concede there isnt too many colour options yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexlars Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If you don't like it, don't use it. Plain & simple. Let those who don't mind gambling, gamble. Let those that do mind, not gamble. lol Not only that, but you're able to get the exact Kubrow you want from other players, granted someone has the breed & fur pattern you're looking for; which I'm positive someone does. Furthermore, you can even haggle with the person you're buying the imprint from. I for one am not for or against the "slot machine" mechanic. I see it in games all the time anyway. *Edit* Disclaimer: I did not read every post in this thread. Edited July 21, 2014 by Rexlars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahuHordika Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 You know, it really amuses me the train of thought that implies "It's everywhere so it's fine". Btw it is not fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If you don't like it, don't use it. Plain & simple. Let those who don't mind gambling, gamble. Let those that do mind, not gamble. lol Not only that, but you're able to get the exact Kubrow you want from other players, granted someone has the breed & fur pattern you're looking for; which I'm positive someone does. Furthermore, you can even haggle with the person you're buying the imprint from. I for one am not for or against the "slot machine" mechanic. I see it in games all the time anyway. *Edit* Disclaimer: I did not read every post in this thread. But you have to see, when we use our Platinum, we do always get what it says on the product. Having the Kubrow Scrambler is a bit of a kick to the teeth, since we have to use Platinum and then deal with RNG, with some reports saying that the colours have not changed. Why swap to this monetization strategy when most players despise it and thus not be willing to purchase it, reducing revenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viverim Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Unless I am mistaken, even using templates you have random occur. Pretty sure it randomizes between the two selections. So unless you use two of the exact same template, you're still leaving it up to the RNG gods. RNG for credits is fine. RNG for Plat is not. Too tired to go into detail, but I'm pretty sure you can figure out the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytime Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Voting with your wallet is only an effective method if maintaining the product for the company has a negative impact on their profits. This, does not. They can have it sitting in the corner for 100 years and it will never cut into profits enough to need changing. What they lose is potential income with customer interest. Unfortunately, this wouldn't display itself as "80% of out users do not buy this product" it would be "X amount of platinum has been purchased this quarter valued at X amount of $." True and not true. In the end, if everybody just talks and buys it anyways I see your point. But posting is important aswell because it raises awareness. Ignoring those 6k response threads becomes kind of hard... And believe me, they are tracking each single ingame payment in plat, categorize it , sum it up and theres someone at DE who knows exactly how much of a success (as of plat revenue) each single part of anything of the new content was and is right now. How many accounts bought the new warframe, how many started the quest, how many completed it? How many speed up building time for a price and when? How many bought an egg, speed up kubrow and recolor it? If once recolored, were those people ready to do it again? Did they only stop at a depleted plat niveau? If they depleted plat, did they buy more? Did the account buy plat on the discount we sent? Yes, we are the customers and they have the data and they are using it. So close your wallet for slot maschines. But we also need to tell eachother so spread the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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