De's (Small) Step Toward Pw-Like Business Strategy

[Liminal]

Breeding new Kubros is though.  Wanting to buy your way to the best result the antithesis to effort.

Debatable. It can be seen as "wanting to stop the ridiculous grind".

 

But more importantly: it's what keeps the game going for all players. So why is it a bad thing again?

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

If the majority of players are saying they would rather have  their Kubrow look exactly how they wanted (hot pink? lime green? etc), I am happy to pass this along to dev to seek and consider possible alternatives for this cosmetic outlet.

 

Your issues with this are in DE decisions, no one elses, so do not derail feedback and discussions with fearful claims of outside influence when no such thing as taken place. 

 

I absolutely get that it's the 'random' element in exchange for Platinum that is rubbing people the wrong way in the case of this cosmetic option. 

Real world: putting a quarter in a gumball machine, wanting a pink one, and getting a blue one. You still have a gumball, but it's not the exact flavour you wanted. Put in another quarter to get a chance at a different gumball, but you're paying for the gumball every time. 

Warframe's case: You're getting the gumball, and the gumball machine, for free, with wait times on delivery. If you think you want one free gumball to look different, you can throw a few quarters in the machine. 

 

But again, will pass along to dev to see what their thoughts are. 

 

 

To make the scrambler more like a gumball machine, we should be able to revert back to previous states with all scramble outcomes saved somewhere for later use.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Debatable. It can be seen as "wanting to stop the ridiculous grind".

 

But more importantly: it's what keeps the game going for all players. So why is it a bad thing again?

Playing the game is what keeps it going.  By not just letting people skip to the end of the Kubro stuff then forget about it forever, players are encouraged to keep coming back tot he game. The Kubro food encourages the same thing.

[Liminal]

Playing the game is what keeps it going.  By not just letting people skip to the end of the Kubro stuff then forget about it forever, players are encouraged to keep coming back tot he game. The Kubro food encourages the same thing.

If nobody buys platinum WF goes down. Those "lazy kids who want to pay instead of making an effort" pay the bills.

 

 If not for the whole PWE thing you guys probably wouldn't be saying anything about this. 

Nah, we hate RNG regardless of PWE :P Especially when it meddles with real money.

[Katakuna]

Playing the game is what keeps it going.  By not just letting people skip to the end of the Kubro stuff then forget about it forever, players are encouraged to keep coming back tot he game. The Kubro food encourages the same thing.

 

Actually, what the DNA Stabilizers and DNA degeneration says to me is: "If you don't log in daily, we'll kill your dog."

 

I guess you could call that encouragement.  Y'know, if you work for the mafia.

[JerZeyCJ]

Playing the game is what keeps it going.  By not just letting people skip to the end of the Kubro stuff then forget about it forever, players are encouraged to keep coming back tot he game. The Kubro food encourages the same thing.

Really? Because I haven't really been playing the game since I started my new Kubrow. The most I've done is log in for a minute to see if it got a pattern or matured, there was no playing of the game. The whole Kubrow puppy process is boring and takes too long, especially if you don't skip the egg process.

Edited July 21, 2014 by JerZeyCJ

[TheStag]

Actually, what the DNA Stabilizers and DNA degeneration says to me is: "If you don't log in daily, we'll kill your dog."

 

I guess you could call that encouragement.  Y'know, if you work for the mafia.

I suggest adding food as a really cheap, low management thing. DNA stabilizers should be gone. They are too expensive and basically everything you said is correct. c:

[endymion7]

The Kubrow scrambler is nothing like what PWE does. The best and closest comparison to the Kubrow scrambler are the CS:GO weapon cases. You people are letting fear and slippery slope blind you to what is actually going on and just how much people don't mind the option when it is featured in other non-PWE associated games. If not for the whole PWE thing you guys probably wouldn't be saying anything about this. Because you guys wouldn't be associating DE with PWE when the thing that you guys are comparing the scrambler to functions very differently. It's times like these that I wish downvotes existed on this forum.

 

CS:GO is hardly a better comparison. Not only are you able to keep the weapon skin, but you can also resell the skin itself rather than selling something that increases the chance of the skin appearing in a weapon case. Not only that, but each weapon case actually explains what skins you're can get from it, so you also have some control on what you want.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If nobody buys platinum WF goes down. Those "lazy kids who want to pay instead of making an effort" pay the bills.

Not being able to "pay to win" the Kubro lottery means that they have to play the game like the rest of us.  That means they have to spend more time in the game.  That means that they will be tempted to spend more on supplementary items such as slots, forma, taters, and so on.

[SquirmyBurrito]

That's right Squirmy, resort to insults when you no longer have an argument. I've told you the problem with PWE, a problem that was highlighted in that thread and one which has been highlighted here by someone other than myself. You don't think it's a problem with PWE because you don't have a problem with random lockboxes. But others, including myself, and several people on that huge thread do have a problem with it.. That was made abundantly clear. So continue with your insults and namecalling because you're one of the few people who is ok with this random scrambler feature.

 

I didn't resort to insults, I was referencing your stubbornness. My argument is solid and has gone without refutation for quite some time now.

 

You keep referencing PWE when (as I have already pointed out):

 

1. PWE has nothing to do with DE's decisions regarding this game's design as was pointed out by Rebecca.

2. PWE's lockboxes usually contain items, often OP items, that can't be obtained easily (or at all). That is NOTHING like a lockbox containing a random cosmetic.

3. Other games feature random cosmetics from boxes (CS:GO) and do not receive this kind of response.

 

And you have not provided proof that you have the majority of the community on your side. That other thread+this thread equates to ~370 upvotes, if we assume each of those is from a different user that STILL does not even come close to being the majority of the amount of players this community has. Rounding that number up to 400 only equates to 1.45926817700923% of your current online playerbase (going by steams number of people currently playing warframe).

 

By changing the scrambler to purchasing skins rather then RNG wouldn't ruin DE's profits. Infact, with enough people not wanting to spend would alter its purchasing amounts. Not that it would change DE's income but seriously? Why would this system work better when purchasing all those skins seperately would profit DE more? 10plat for a generated skin that could easily be a 40 plat skin? Permanently having the option on whatever Kubrow type you can apply it too. The only lottery besides this is the login reward which is free. Honestly why defend such a nasty behavior that mimics other games when Warframe is already benefitting in many other ways? There's no reason to do what other companies do when DE is already an outstanding successful and healthy company?

Yes I want to pay for cosmetics, but i can't pick and choose what color and pattern I want my pet to be, even tho I'm paying for it. A pretty silly backwards system that can easily be changed to a more simple and benefitting remedy. If DE released seperate patterns for 40 plat each, I'd buy it. Say there's 5 skins. That's 200 plat easy. Is that not profit? No doubt spending 10 plat 20 times is good but not as benefitting. No one is going to want to scrambler their pets that many times....

If people want to spend money on cosmetics the way they originally do with frames and sentinels, this thread wouldn't exist. It's sort of a similar issue when the first Prime Access(ember prime) was released. After DE seeing the community complaints about cosmetics, they made a separate tier for the next Access Prime to purchase those items only. That said, this can be altered and changed for the better. DE listens. There are soo many other purchases, that making this scrambler a one step to an anti-impulse buyer. If a bundle for mirage is well worth more then Kubrow scrambler, something is obviously wrong with this system.

 

Yeah it kinda would. Anything that is onetime purchase but comes with infinite uses is going to screw DE out of a ton of profit and does not encourage repeat buys. A 40p skin is equal to four spins on the scrambler. Please explain how purchasable skins are going to encourage repeat buys. 

 

You claim that no one is going to use the scrambler that many times, yet there are numerous posts in the kubrow pic thread that prove you wrong.

 

If people didn't keep associating this with PWE this thread would either not exist, or be MUCH smaller.

[Janzer]

Before the rage and chaos ensues, please read this. Thanks.

One new feature is that a player can pay 10 platinum for a change in the appearance of their Kubrow, but the change is random. Although the amount of platinum is very small, the entire concept of paying the equivalent of real money, for a chance at getting what you want, is very bad. I would much rather have DE ramp up the cost to change the appearance of a Kubrow to 20-50 plat and make the players get a choice, instead of this purchase having a random outcome.

I would like to end this with the request of Digital Extremes removing the randomness out of the Kubrow appearance change feature. If this feature is kept in the game, the possibility of more like it increases. I do not want this game to become an almost unplayable game filled with random rewards from platinum purchases.

 

When I saw that I had the option of "scrambling" my Kubrow's colors and fur for 10 platinum, well, I call BS when I see it. I do not advocate cursing at the developers, being negative without proper criticism given (big difference between whining and critiquing), etc. and so forth.

 

But this is BS. Period.

 

Here is how it can easily be fixed. Leave in the option of "Scrambling" your Kubrow's appearance, but change the charge to credits instead of platinum. Charge 50k, 100k, I don't care how much. It's credits. We can work for that random bit.

 

Next, let us apply color packs to Kubrow from color packs we already have, or if that isn't good enough, sell us color packs specifically for Kubrow.

 

Last, sell us fur texture packs or whatever.

 

When you make that type of alteration of the game's aesthetic option and customizable by the user, you'll get much more mileage than a &!$$ed off community who's getting charged for pimpin out their Kubrow on the roulette wheel.

 

It's inexcusable.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Janzer

[Liminal]

Not being able to "pay to win" the Kubro lottery means that they have to play the game like the rest of us.  That means they have to spend more time in the game.  That means that they will be tempted to spend more on supplementary items such as slots, forma, taters, and so on.

"Pay to win"? But it's a fricking skin! 

It means many people get frustrated and don't even bother putting a dime into them, as evidenced by this very thread.

 

 play the game like the rest of us.  

Also what does that mean?

Do you realize that if everyone "played the game like the rest of us" there would be no point for every single non-plat-only item in the store? I think it's safe to assume that means less income for DE.

 

I'm just getting an important "payers vs players" vibe here ... I hope it's a false alarm.

[SquirmyBurrito]

If nobody buys platinum WF goes down. Those "lazy kids who want to pay instead of making an effort" pay the bills.

 

Nah, we hate RNG regardless of PWE :P Especially when it meddles with real money.

 

From what I have seen, the players of this game don't seem to understand exactly what they want when it comes to RNG. They claim to hate it, yet actually love systems that depend upon it, and then claim to love it when it rolls in their favor, but spew hate at it when it doesn't. And then in other games they don't even seem to notice it. The forum community of this game clings much too tightly to buzzwords without truly understanding what they mean.

 

Actually, what the DNA Stabilizers and DNA degeneration says to me is: "If you don't log in daily, we'll kill your dog."

 

I guess you could call that encouragement.  Y'know, if you work for the mafia.

 

Stasis.

 

CS:GO is hardly a better comparison. Not only are you able to keep the weapon skin, but you can also resell the skin itself rather than selling something that increases the chance of the skin appearing in a weapon case. Not only that, but each weapon case actually explains what skins you're can get from it, so you also have some control on what you want.

 

Correct, but the comparison is CLOSER as it is a matter of cosmetics rather than weapons and other game changing gear. What CS:GO has with cases is actually very close to what I think the Kubrow scrambler should become. But without the ability to sell the fur patterns to other players (that can should be what the imprints do).

 

 

 

"Pay to win"? But it's a fricking skin! 

It means many people get frustrated and don't even bother putting a dime into them, as evidenced by this very thread.

 

Many more people may be putting plat into that system as evidenced by... oh right, the majority of our community probably doesn't even use the forum. If you round up the total upvotes the OP of this thread and the Kubrow colors why de thread to 400 upvotes that is only 1.45926817700923% of the amount of players steam says we currently have playing as of a few minutes ago when I looked and did the math.

[Airwolfen]

Not being able to "pay to win" the Kubro lottery means that they have to play the game like the rest of us.  That means they have to spend more time in the game.  That means that they will be tempted to spend more on supplementary items such as slots, forma, taters, and so on.

 

just...what? Why the hell are you comparing it to p2w. You get a PC with wf and try and breed a black/brown kubrow for me with lotus on its head. even just the 2 days wait for the egg and 36h for it to mature will make sure you will be at it for a while. good luck now. and be sure to spend some plat along the way. :)

 

EDIT: and it needs to be a Sahasa as well.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Airwolfen

[ThePresident777]

I can't believe people are defending this practice.  I'm an adult(at least technically.  Don't break my toys!  Get off my lawn!).  I stopped falling for the gumball machine trick a long long time ago.  I shop for a good deal for exactly what I want, not random stuff.  My money is guaranteed.  What I get for it must be too.  Otherwise, I may as well pay with random money.  I don't throw money into a bog hoping my wishes will come true.  That would be much more foolish than I'm currently capable of.

 

Incidentally, color packs work on sentinels, warframes, and weapons.  Don't see why they shouldn't work on Kubros.  If DE wants to make money off Kubrow cosmetics, they should follow current accepted practices, like color packs, syandanas, etc.

[Aramanth]

If DE changed it so we now have to color our warframes in the same way as the kubrows (i.e. 10p for a random color for each part) and there was no other way to color them, would it be alright?

[SquirmyBurrito]

If DE changed it so we now have to color our warframes in the same way as the kubrows (i.e. 10p for a random color for each part) and there was no other way to color them, would it be alright?

 

Technically, yes.

 

Would players throw a fit? Yes and rightfully so as that would mean all the money they had spent on color packs suddenly didn't mean anything. 

 

Kubrow were done this way seemingly to facilitate the breeding thing they were trying to do to make Kubrow actually feel like a living thing rather than some item you can do with as you please. The problem is that it seems incomplete.

[BiancaRoughfin]

By me DE should just remove that Randomizer at the cost of Platinum and just leave players to their luck in breeding and combining DNA...

[elele]

Kubrow were done this way seemingly to facilitate the breeding thing they were trying to do to make Kubrow actually feel like a living thing rather than some item you can do with as you please. The problem is that it seems incomplete.

 

This guy gets it. 

[Nitresco]

By me DE should just remove that Randomizer at the cost of Platinum and just leave players to their luck in breeding and combining DNA...

That generates 0 profit.

[SquirmyBurrito]

By me DE should just remove that Randomizer at the cost of Platinum and just leave players to their luck in breeding and combining DNA...

 

That would... actually fix the problem that people seem to have with it, at the cost of potential profit for DE.

[Aramanth]

Technically, yes.

 

Would players throw a fit? Yes and rightfully so as that would mean all the money they had spent on color packs suddenly didn't mean anything. 

 

Kubrow were done this way seemingly to facilitate the breeding thing they were trying to do to make Kubrow actually feel like a living thing rather than some item you can do with as you please. The problem is that it seems incomplete.

 

 

You bring up another problem with the kubrow colors- let's say they add colors to the marketplace you can buy with plat.  What about all those people who wasted plat on RNG getting the colors they want?  People are complaining on not getting a gift basket for not losing their pets to a horrible bug, they'd riot if they learned the platinum they spent getting the exact color they want was put to waste because someone buys one color set and gets exactly what they want for a fraction the cost.  This whole thing is just a horrible mess.  At this rate, it'd be better to just roll the game  back to last week, give everyone 1500 platinum, send out a "we're sorry" letter, and start fresh.

[Airwolfen]

Yeah it kinda would. Anything that is onetime purchase but comes with infinite uses is going to screw DE out of a ton of profit and does not encourage repeat buys. A 40p skin is equal to four spins on the scrambler. Please explain how purchasable skins are going to encourage repeat buys. 

 

You claim that no one is going to use the scrambler that many times, yet there are numerous posts in the kubrow pic thread that prove you wrong.

 

If people didn't keep associating this with PWE this thread would either not exist, or be MUCH smaller.

 

Ok lets throw PWE and profit for DE out of the door for a sec and ask:

 

Is this system fair for the players?

 

because my only answer to that is, no. And towards the player base i find no way to justify it :/ that is mainly my stance in this. what DE does with this system is just not fair to the players and as mane people who were defending DE said: You use it, or you don't. the people who dont use it should not mind a change and those who want to have a certain look get screwed by rng.

[SquirmyBurrito]

You bring up another problem with the kubrow colors- let's say they add colors to the marketplace you can buy with plat.  What about all those people who wasted plat on RNG getting the colors they want?  People are complaining on not getting a gift basket for not losing their pets to a horrible bug, they'd riot if they learned the platinum they spent getting the exact color they want was put to waste because someone buys one color set and gets exactly what they want for a fraction the cost.  This whole thing is just a horrible mess.  At this rate, it'd be better to just roll the game  back to last week, give everyone 1500 platinum, send out a "we're sorry" letter, and start fresh.

 

Or they could take my idea and flesh it out so that it works and actually sounds nice 

 

Here is my idea if anyone is interested "The basic idea was scrambling=more patterns for your gene bank=nice selection for your next hatched kubrow (probably should be free) or for use on your current kubrow for plat. Scrambler should be kept as is (10p per use) but should add to your gene pool. Imprints also add to your pattern selection pool." 

 

My idea would allow players to get what they wanted via a better version of the current breeding system that we have (it would need to be created), and would give the scrambler a use that is much closer to what CS:GO has with weapon skins. This would also help alleviate some of the rage that comes with making kubrow customization easy, and the frustration that comes with this current form.

 

Edit: And giving everyone 1500 plat is NOT the way to go, that is a ton of money to be giving away as an apology. Especially when there is no need for such a drastic change.

Edited July 21, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[SquirmyBurrito]

Ok lets throw PWE and profit for DE out of the door for a sec and ask:

 

Is this system fair for the players?

 

because my only answer to that is, no. And towards the player base i find no way to justify it :/ that is mainly my stance in this. what DE does with this system is just not fair to the players and as mane people who were defending DE said: You use it, or you don't. the people who dont use it should not mind a change and those who want to have a certain look get screwed by rng.

 

Depends on what you consider fair. The thing in question is just a cosmetic 'item', so no matter what the player gets they're still getting something. And that thing is just as valuable (maybe not on the trade market) as what some other player gets.