(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 believe me, the current system is not that deep as you hope. {citation needed} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If we could keep the patters, that would be nice, but what would you do with all the patterns you don't like that you obtain in the process of obtaining the ones you do like? See? RNG will still screw people over. Tie those into a new and more complex breeding system. Maybe allow people to sell them as imprints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Tie those into a new and more complex breeding system. Maybe allow people to sell them as imprints? Selling them as imprints would be interesting, but soon the market will most likely be flooded with them, and they may not even be worth 10p. I cannot see how someone could make their money back on that through the trading market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Selling them as imprints would be interesting, but soon the market will most likely be flooded with them, and they may not even be worth 10p. I cannot see how someone could make their money back on that through the trading market. Potentially, but DE's main concern should not be helping players make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Potentially, but DE's main concern should not be helping players make money.The main concern of this thread is to raise awareness to DE that they are using a flawed system and it is making players very disgruntled and disturbed. DE's concern should be on why their players are not happy, which would be the fact that the reward of a platinum transaction is based on RNG, a road in which I, and many others do not want DE to go down with this game.Edit: More clarification: Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income Edited July 21, 2014 by TheStag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) {citation needed} The current system: You get a egg with a kubrow with random traits. you grow it and it has a skin you liked or you rng'd your way to a nice skin. now you make 2 prints (max amount a kubrow even have) and those prints only contain dominant traits. that, when put in a new egg turn out to be less dominant then rng. So what I mean with not as deep as you hope is that there is no resessive DNA on that plate. AKA: linage of the parent DNA does not matter at the slightest. The plates are gen 1 and the egg gen 2. EVERY TIME! Throw in the fact that when you create a egg with 2 plates with the same dominant plates its still like 2 parents take their dominant DNA and then still run it through the world DNA database with a 50% success rate on each trait! mothers lips, fathers eyes, nose from some guy in india... what? I hope that you now understand what i mean with that the system is not as deep as you hope. EDIT: proof on the dominant trait thing. in-game desription: Edited July 21, 2014 by Airwolfen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The current system: You get a egg with a kubrow with random traits. you grow it an it has a skin you liked or you rng'd your way to a nice skin. now you make 2 prints (max amount a kubrow even) and those prints only contain dominant traits. that, when put in a new egg turn out to be less dominant then rng. So what I mean with not as deep as you hope is that there is no resessive DNA on that plate. AKA: linage of the parent DNA does not matter at the slightest. The plates are gen 1 and the egg gen 2. EVERY TIME! Throw in the fact that when you create a egg with 2 plates with the same dominant plates its still like 2 parents take their dominant DNA and then still run it through the world DNA database with a 50% success rate on each trait! mothers lips, fathers eyes, nose from some guy in india... what? I hope that you now understand what i mean with that the system is not as deep as you hope. Except the deepest people can be in now is 2 gens, and we don't know what genes are dominant yet. Maybe the skin you liked was "Dd" and by making two imprints of only its dominate genes you ended up with "DD" which results in a different outcome. The system just hasn't been around long enough to know. I now know you are just making up things to support your vendetta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnagar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The main concern of this thread is to raise awareness to DE that they are using a flawed system and it is making players very disgruntled and disturbed. DE's concern should be on why their players are not happy, which would be the fact that the reward of a platinum transaction is based on RNG, a road in which I, and many others do not want DE to go down with this game. Edit: More clarification: Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income this^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateSpinDash Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ok, where does DE even want to go with this Kubrow thing. Players are supposed to grow attached to their Kubrow(s), right? That is what differentiates them from Sentinels. So it makes sense that we want "our" Kubrow to stick out from the crowd, which is the reason people buy colour palettes, Syandanas etc. for their Warframes / Weapons / Sentinels. To look different from the rest. With Kubrows, we are supposed to breed them to get what we want (which likely involves getting rid of all failed results), buy Imprints from another player (who would be exploiting his pet for Profit in that case), or using a slot machine that magically does what we can do for Warframes, but for some reason not Kubrows, but at random. Maybe those who disagree with this scrambler mechanic should paint their Warframes, Weapons and Sentinels in pink, neon or some other "unnatural" colour combination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income False. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archeyef Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I can't believe I'm back here, but: I'd be totally fine with an actual breeding system, though I'd like them to give us more free stasis chambers if that's the case. How am I supposed to start breeding kubrow if I can only have two kubrow to start with? Even just one additional free slot would be welcome. If DE wants to go in that direction instead of the "patterns/colors for plat" route, I'd be fine with that. I just want them to step away from this "pay for a random chance" thing they have going. Because I don't want to fritter my plat away with no guarantee of getting something I'll like. Again, not a casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitresco Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 False. *cough* {citation needed} *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) *cough* {citation needed} *cough* "Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income" If DE gives everyone 1 million plat for free then players would be very happy, but DE would not be making any money, ergo, player happiness =/= DE profits. Edited July 21, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 PSA for you all, due to thread merging the beginning of the real megathread is several pages in now, and some random guy gets credit for the mega thread. If you want to see the OP, search around a bit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Except the deepest people can be in now is 2 gens, and we don't know what genes are dominant yet. Maybe the skin you liked was "Dd" and by making two imprints of only its dominate genes you ended up with "DD" which results in a different outcome. The system just hasn't been around long enough to know. I now know you are just making up things to support your vendetta. you just don't want to listen do you... Yet I'm going into more detail on what you said. if a plate only caries dominant traites you will indeed end up with DD. BUT. say that human one has blond hair (D) and red hair (d) and only the D will transfer to the plate, you basically destroy red hair from the linage of the plate, destroying that part of the linage. thats how it works with humans as red hair only shows with two red hair genes as red hair is (d) so you need (dd) with both red to have red hair. If only the dominant traits transfer each time with humans then in X generations the entire world will be nearly monotone in appearance without any recessive genes. even black hair dominates over other dominant traits for example. And current tests show that even with plates that are fully dominant produce child eggs that are nowhere near the identical dominant parent plates. Good luck with the system once you get your hands on it and find how broken breeding is as you seem to have a lot of trust in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 "Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income" If DE gives everyone 1 million plat for free then players would be very happy, but DE would not be making any money, ergo, player happiness =/= DE profits. This is technically true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) "Unhappy players=less income for DE Happy players=more income" If DE gives everyone 1 million plat for free then players would be very happy, but DE would not be making any money, ergo, player happiness =/= DE profits. He didn't say "if DE gives all players 1M plat". He said "if players are happy" and it doesn't take much to infer that he meant "happy with the game mechanics/store/etc". It's simple business: you want your customers happy with your product. The main concern of this thread is to raise awareness to DE that they are using a flawed system and it is making players very disgruntled and disturbed. DE's concern should be on why their players are not happy, which would be the fact that the reward of a platinum transaction is based on RNG, a road in which I, and many others do not want DE to go down with this game. While I don't (and can't) know if DE will go down that road, we have to make sure they understand we don't like buying "random boxes" or gambling with plat. Edited July 21, 2014 by The_Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 you just don't want to listen do you... Yet I'm going into more detail on what you said. if a plate only caries dominant traites you will indeed end up with DD. BUT. say that human one has blond hair (D) and red hair (d) and only the D will transfer to the plate, you basically destroy red hair from the linage of the plate, destroying that part of the linage. thats how it works with humans as red hair only shows with two red hair genes as red hair is (d) so you need (dd) with both red to have red hair. If only the dominant traits transfer each time with humans then in X generations the entire world will be nearly monotone in appearance without any recessive genes. even black hair dominates over other dominant traits for example. And current tests show that even with plates that are fully dominant produce child eggs that are nowhere near the identical dominant parent plates. Good luck with the system once you get your hands on it and find how broken breeding is as you seem to have a lot of trust in them. And I am saying that there may be an interaction with then where DD, Dd, and dd all produce different results. Whereas if go from Dd to DD you get a different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis49 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) First, what evidence is there that the imprint system doesn't model recessive, heterozygous, etc. genes? Even in real life, it takes many generations of breeding to come up with a new and consistent result in a new breed of animal. First, Burden of proof: Always lies on the positive claim, not the negative. ;-) But anyhoo, the simple fact that it's possible to get different breeds than those from the two imprints; even with two imprints from the same breed (or indeed the same individual animal) which is a pretty big indication that even dominant traits aren't fully modeled. It's not like breeding a pair of Pomeranians will suddenly net you a Pug. That's also not really true with breeding, atleast not for stuff like color morphs (i.e. the case here) as long as the traits are there to work with. I know from experience, a big chunk of the current reptile industry is based on captive-bred animals with morphs that have near-zero chance (if any) of occuring in nature... and it's a pretty new industry (I've seen the prices on some come down by near-100 times over the past 10 years due to them becoming so common, and in some cases that's just within two or three generations). Hell, this is leaving aside the commercial availability of things like pet Fluorescent Mice, the technologies and techniques that even make them possible didn't exist until a few years ago and they're perfectly capable of breeding and making baby glow-in-the-dark mice now. Of the arguments one can make for the current system, realism is the wrong one. Edited July 21, 2014 by Taranis49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 He didn't say "if DE gives all players 1M plat". I didn't say he said that. I said that. He said happiness = profits and I posted an example that proved that it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I didn't say he said that. I said that. He said happiness = profits and I posted an example that proved that it does not. I thought realistic and reasonable circumstances relating to the topic in this thread was a given. I am sorry, but your unrealistic ideas are not valid excuses. You guys have some good ideas, but keeping RNG in a platinum transaction is just a bad idea. Look at PW, and you may understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I didn't say he said that. I said that. He said happiness = profits and I posted an example that proved that it does not. Well, he didn't mean that, obviously. That's just being obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 First, Burden of proof: Always lies on the positive claim, not the negative. ;-) But anyhoo, the simple fact that it's possible to get different breeds than those from the two imprints; even with two imprints from the same breed (or indeed the same individual animal) which is a pretty big indication that even dominant traits aren't fully modeled. It's not like breeding a pair of Pomeranians will suddenly net you a Pug. That's also not really true with breeding, atleast not for stuff like color morphs (i.e. the case here) as long as the traits are there to work with. I know from experience, a big chunk of the current reptile industry is based on captive-bred animals with morphs that have near-zero chance (if any) of occuring in nature... and it's a pretty new industry (I've seen the prices on some come down by near-100 times over the past 10 years due to them becoming so common). Hell, this is leaving aside the commercial availability of things like pet Fluorescent Mice, the technologies and techniques that even make them possible didn't exist until a few years ago and they're perfectly capable of breeding and making baby glow-in-the-dark mice now. Of the arguments one can make for the current system, realism is the wrong one. See the post above yours. Also, the onus is on the person making the claim. He is asserting that the system is not deep so the burden of proof lies with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Well, he didn't mean that, obviously. That's just being obtuse. Really, because most people think I am acute-y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis49 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 See the post above yours. Also, the onus is on the person making the claim. He is asserting that the system is not deep so the burden of proof lies with him. False. Burden of Proof always lies with the positive claim. It's logically fallacious to ask for negative proof. If you're gonna argue for proper debating etiquette, do so correctly. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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