"warframe Is A Beta"

[Mokkania]

I assume you wanted a specific answer then? Alrighty. I'll first start with what has been done already then what could be done.

 

1) Mobile Defense, Interception, etc.

2) Foundry

3) Mod 2.0

4) Clans and Dojo

5) Orokin Void and Orokin Derelict

6) Damage 2.0

7) Melee 2.0

8) Alliances and Dark Sectors

 

What could be changed or added now? Stealth 2.0, Balance 2.0, and Quests 2.0. After that? More content and aesthetics.

I'll try to interpret it as you'd preferred if U14 content had been made later?

[McVolker]

While I do not like it being listed as beta being an attempted excuse for having many broken and half-built features, I am going to give a comparison. Firefall is launching within the next few days, and it has been in beta for multiple years. It has gone through so many different iterations, many of them terrible, and has finally found a solid setup to launch with. Warframe is in a very similar boat, albeit less complete turnarounds mid-development to lead it in a different direction.

[(PSN)Gross1985]

Didn't someone say somewhere that Warframe was a game "still in development"?  Sounds hard to believe at first since the game is obviously playable and all, but they seem to be adding new things to the game's mechanics and other elements.  Sure beats common DLC we get in other games (FPS = new maps), though still.

 

Maybe that's why we pay while playing, though fortunately it's optional, but I don't know.  Our moneys go towards further development and amendment of this game?  Or maybe I'm thinking too optimistically at this point in time...

[BigPurpleHarness]

The only people who believe this is a beta are absolutely clueless about current business practices in the industry and marketing. You are also not going to convince them otherwise, as they're willfully ignorant, not just ignorant. 

 

[Mokkania]

The only people who believe this is a beta are absolutely clueless about current business practices in the industry and marketing. You are also not going to convince them otherwise, as they're willfully ignorant, not just ignorant. 

 

I'm getting curious, maybe you could enlighten us?

[TanTheMan]

Gracious, another extra credits video... while I love the EC team and their videos are without much doubt correct, I think it's a little... silly whenever someone links one to do their points for them. No offense.

 

Please explain why you have this ridiculous logic.

[Ionus]

The only people who believe this is a beta are absolutely clueless about current business practices in the industry and marketing. You are also not going to convince them otherwise, as they're willfully ignorant, not just ignorant.

I laugh at all the people who use the "cash shop? Not beta!" argument, especially in regards to Warframe specifically.

First of all, they completely ignore the fact that this game is wholly unfinished. Placeholders everywhere, balance is still an overall issue, features have yet to be implemented, among other things.

Not to mention that Digital Extremes has no big name publisher to feed it money to even MAKE the game before the "release." So, they have to draw their funding from us, the player testers.

Personally I don't see any rule saying that having a cash shop invalidates a game as a beta.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Ionus

[Lilybun]

Since they are asking real money and milking real money from every nook and cranny I'd consider it a released product. It might not be feature complete and it's far from polished but it's still a released game, monetized, patched full game. The worst part about warframe are the shills in the community, willing to make excuses for DE no matter what they do. They would honestly support shutting the game down with $&*&*#(%& bullS#&$ like 'devs need to eat too they can't afford to keep up the servers for you' etc.

 

Snap the F*** out people, I know you have spent a lot of time and/or money to this game and you are neck-deep in post-purchase confirmation bias but try to have at least SOME sense in what you are rambling. IT IS ONLY GOOD FOR YOU AND THE GAME IF YOU QUESTION DE'S DECISIONS. Sure they will lock up your threads and give you warning points if the feedback is negative and your threads will get swarmed by shills but in my eyes, it's worth it. If even a tiny glimpse of sense and reason reach the devs and the shills and someone somewhere makes a more educated decision, the game will be better off

 

Don't give empty praise and don't make excuses, the dev team is giving the game their 100% but some of that effort is spent short-sightedly in cash grabs like randomized kubrow appearance. There will be only more of the harmful stuff if you never question it and keep making excuses for the devs

Edited July 22, 2014 by Uuni

[Ionus]

Sure they will lock up your threads and give you warning points if the feedback is negative and your threads will get swarmed by shills but in my eyes, it's worth it.

If your thread was locked or deleted I doubt it was being constructive or actual feedback. As far as I've seen negative feedback threads aren't closed for the pure fact that they're negative. _Nugget's old thread comes to mind as HUGELY constructive and mostly negative feedback.

[Moderius]

Beta is just an excuse used by devs nowadays to justify that a game is a buggy mess.

 

This was a content release. Not a bug fix. They release content. They introduce content. They change content. The game is constantly changing. It's not just "bugs being fixed".

 

You and the OP are the same type. He always parrots the same "it's not really beta" argument in other threads but it still doesn't hold any merit; the game is still in development. It's not done. But nothing is better than people claiming they know better than DE about what is planned for the game and how the development has proceeded.

 

Major aspects of the game were added in the last patch. Period. They are still adding a massive amount of things to the game monthly. Fixes. Tweaks. Additions. Content. Game modes. Tilesets. Balances. Lore. Interactions. Who the hell are you, or anyone, to say the game is done? You aren't working on it.

[Lilybun]

If your thread was locked or deleted I doubt it was being constructive or actual feedback. As far as I've seen negative feedback threads aren't closed for the pure fact that they're negative. _Nugget's old thread comes to mind as HUGELY constructive and mostly negative feedback.

I haven't made a thread but I've seen many valid feedback threads locked, 'merged' (closed) or moved to a dead forum without actual reason while letting the positive threads remain untouched. Official forums tend to be a hugbox for the devs with no criticism allowed (at least not unless it's HEAVILY sugarcoated) but what other way we have to give them feedback? Unpopular opinions not allowed, shills will kill any discussion here no matter how valid the points are they will cop out the same old arguments and excuses every time

[Ionus]

I haven't made a thread but I've seen many valid feedback threads locked, 'merged' (closed) or moved to a dead forum without actual reason while letting the positive threads remain untouched. Official forums tend to be a hugbox for the devs with no criticism allowed (at least not unless it's HEAVILY sugarcoated) but what other way we have to give them feedback? Unpopular opinions not allowed, shills will kill any discussion here no matter how valid the points are they will cop out the same old arguments and excuses every time

I don't know what forum you've been reading, but every thread I have seen merged is just a copy of another thread. Every thread moved doesn't belong in general discussion(It doesn't matter if more people read GD, if you're in the wrong place you're in the wrong place). And all threads locked either start with a hateful tone by the OP, the subject has already been discussed, or the thread has descended into a flame war.

Now, if you have an "unpopular opinion" and you post it on a public forum, you have given permission to anybody and everybody to respond to your opinion. Hence "public." If you can't handle the opinions of other players you should have PMed a developer directly. On the other hand if you post publicly and people think you come off as a $&*^ they're going to react like $&*^s. In fact, don't post in General Discussion if you want a meaningful discussion. Too many kinds of people post here.

Also, your overuse of the word "shills" makes me take your post less seriously. You're acting like this whole forum is just to mask some huge conspiracy or something.

[noteom]

beta or alpha?

[TisForTat]

Do we all remember how long Dota 2 was in "beta" Closed beta no less. This is nothing. DE needs to take their time and make sure they have a complete game ready for release

Until you reach the higher ranks of Dota 2, you are stuck with people that either don't speak English, troll, or both. Anyways Dota 2 is based off the WoW Dota mod. Warframe is based off of Dark Sector. Here's the dates:

 

Dark Sector: March 25, 2008

Warframe Closed Beta: October 25, 2012

Warframe Open Beta: March 18, 2013

Warframe Steam: March 28, 2013

Warframe PS4: November 20, 2013

 

WoW Reign Of Chaos: July 3, 2003

WoW DoTA mod: 2005

Dota 2 Alpha: 2009

Dota 2 Beta: 2011

Dota 2 Release: July 18, 2013

 

It's crowd sourced publishing.  It is a beta, we are the investors.  It's an interesting model because while we invest cash we don't necessarily get returns other than digital items.  It's a new beta model, but still a beta because there is no finished product. 

It's a MMORPG and like every MMORPG there is a cash shop if it is free to play or a paid subscription if there isn't. This is necessary to maintain servers, pay employees, pay utilities, and whatever is left for profit. But there is more to it than that. Players that disagree with me state it is Beta because it is missing content:

 

1) Weapons/Warframes/Sentinels/Pets/Starmap Missions for Mastery Rank until 30 (which will take hundreds if not thousands of each currently)

2) Unique tilesets for each planet

3) Reworked bosses including "fillers"

4) More enemies

5) Etc.

 

But the bottomline is, while that adds more to do in Warframe, it does not change how we do it in Warframe. It is DLC plain and simple. The only actual feature (and not just DLC) I had left out earlier in my response to Mokkania was "Focus" since that is an idea that Steve just recently spurred.

 

I'll try to interpret it as you'd preferred if U14 content had been made later?

Correct.

 

While I do not like it being listed as beta being an attempted excuse for having many broken and half-built features, I am going to give a comparison. Firefall is launching within the next few days, and it has been in beta for multiple years. It has gone through so many different iterations, many of them terrible, and has finally found a solid setup to launch with. Warframe is in a very similar boat, albeit less complete turnarounds mid-development to lead it in a different direction.

I have not played Firefall so I can't agree or disagree with your statement. Feel free to explain the development process and gist of the game though.

 

Didn't someone say somewhere that Warframe was a game "still in development"?  Sounds hard to believe at first since the game is obviously playable and all, but they seem to be adding new things to the game's mechanics and other elements.  Sure beats common DLC we get in other games (FPS = new maps), though still.

 

Maybe that's why we pay while playing, though fortunately it's optional, but I don't know.  Our moneys go towards further development and amendment of this game?  Or maybe I'm thinking too optimistically at this point in time...

Warframe is supposed to be adding both content and improving/adding core features to the game. It is certainly better than most games I have played or heard of.

 

Also if you spend money, either you spent it in hopes it would support the game, spent it to buy a shiny, or a bit of both. I'm personally more inclined to the third scenario.

 

The only people who believe this is a beta are absolutely clueless about current business practices in the industry and marketing. You are also not going to convince them otherwise, as they're willfully ignorant, not just ignorant. 

 

That depends. I don't generalize people with prejustice, but I do know people I have encountered after the fact fall unto that category.

 

I laugh at all the people who use the "cash shop? Not beta!" argument, especially in regards to Warframe specifically.

First of all, they completely ignore the fact that this game is wholly unfinished. Placeholders everywhere, balance is still an overall issue, features have yet to be implemented, among other things.

Not to mention that Digital Extremes has no big name publisher to feed it money to even MAKE the game before the "release." So, they have to draw their funding from us, the player testers.

Personally I don't see any rule saying that having a cash shop invalidates a game as a beta.

My response to geomancer1918 is the same one I have to this. Mainly DLC is your argument.

 

Since they are asking real money and milking real money from every nook and cranny I'd consider it a released product. It might not be feature complete and it's far from polished but it's still a released game, monetized, patched full game. The worst part about warframe are the shills in the community, willing to make excuses for DE no matter what they do. They would honestly support shutting the game down with $&*&*#(%& bullS#&$ like 'devs need to eat too they can't afford to keep up the servers for you' etc.

 

Snap the F*** out people, I know you have spent a lot of time and/or money to this game and you are neck-deep in post-purchase confirmation bias but try to have at least SOME sense in what you are rambling. IT IS ONLY GOOD FOR YOU AND THE GAME IF YOU QUESTION DE'S DECISIONS. Sure they will lock up your threads and give you warning points if the feedback is negative and your threads will get swarmed by shills but in my eyes, it's worth it. If even a tiny glimpse of sense and reason reach the devs and the shills and someone somewhere makes a more educated decision, the game will be better off

 

Don't give empty praise and don't make excuses, the dev team is giving the game their 100% but some of that effort is spent short-sightedly in cash grabs like randomized kubrow appearance. There will be only more of the harmful stuff if you never question it and keep making excuses for the devs

Don't use caps. Anyways I agree to an extent. It is a two part responsibility. Players for their feedback and Developers for their hearkening. There are three types of players if we were to generalize people which I'd rather not, but for humorous purposes. Sheep, wolves, and dogs. I'll explain each.

 

Sheep are the players that tend to just blindly follow the majority of other sheep or the people in charge. Most of them just want to blend in, but some are black sheep that do it so that they might be in charge too some day.

 

Wolves are the players that tend to howl at everything. They are the ones that make a commotion and often unproductively negative. Sometimes they complain about the game and sometimes they complain about other players.

 

Dogs are the wolves that bark at what actually matters and stay quiet otherwise. They're tame very much like the sheep, but will make some noise when something big upsets them.

 

I consider myself one of those dogs.

 

This was a content release. Not a bug fix. They release content. They introduce content. They change content. The game is constantly changing. It's not just "bugs being fixed".

 

You and the OP are the same type. He always parrots the same "it's not really beta" argument in other threads but it still doesn't hold any merit; the game is still in development. It's not done. But nothing is better than people claiming they know better than DE about what is planned for the game and how the development has proceeded.

 

Major aspects of the game were added in the last patch. Period. They are still adding a massive amount of things to the game monthly. Fixes. Tweaks. Additions. Content. Game modes. Tilesets. Balances. Lore. Interactions. Who the hell are you, or anyone, to say the game is done? You aren't working on it.

Tell me why do fully released multiplayer games like Borderlands 2, Grand Theft Auto 5, WoW, etc. still release downloadable content? They're beta too? No? Well then.

 

Also if this is a beta, then we are beta testers technically and if we are technically beta testers, then by testing this product, we are technically working on it with the developers. No? Well then.

 

While I do not like getting lumped into categories, people that "parrot" ...It's beta bc fillers... do not enjoy being lumped together into categories either.

 

I haven't made a thread but I've seen many valid feedback threads locked, 'merged' (closed) or moved to a dead forum without actual reason while letting the positive threads remain untouched. Official forums tend to be a hugbox for the devs with no criticism allowed (at least not unless it's HEAVILY sugarcoated) but what other way we have to give them feedback? Unpopular opinions not allowed, shills will kill any discussion here no matter how valid the points are they will cop out the same old arguments and excuses every time

I already said it earlier in response to a spam reply, if the thread gets locked/deleted, then it gets locked/deleted, but for now there is no reason to lock/delete this thread and will stay so unless a moderator feels otherwise. If a moderator were to act upon this without stating a reason, I would have reason to have suspicion of their intentions for doing so, but as it is clearly not, therefore there is no purpose to feel that way right now.

[vaugahn]

People do realize how a modern open beta business model works, right?

[Ionus]

My response to geomancer1918 is the same one I have to this. Mainly DLC is your argument.

 

DLC

 

1. Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content for a video game distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher or other third party content producers. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack.

 

The content not in the game yet is not in any form DLC. When people say DLC, they mean additions like Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep or Dawnguard. You know, things that are actually new content on top of the finished game as a whole.

 

It's just like saying that if they released Halo 4 and you only fought Unggoy(grunts) in the campaign and then released "DLC" later to unlock the other enemies. This is core content, not DLC.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Ionus

[ReaperShade]

The EULA is clear and since you all accepted this:

 

Patches and Updates

Digital Extremes may deploy or provide patches, updates and modifications to the Game that must be installed for you to continue to play the Game. Digital Extremes may update the Game remotely including without limitation the Game Client Software residing on the your machine, without your knowledge, and you hereby grant to Digital Extremes your consent to deploy and apply such patches, updates and modifications.

6.    Duration of Online Services

The Software is an online game that must be played over the Internet through the Service as provided by Digital Extremes. You understand and agree that the Service is provided by Digital Extremes at its discretion and may be terminated or otherwise discontinued by DE at any time for any reason or no reason.

why bother to argue over if its a beta or not. 

 

And for those of you that argue that this is a not an beta. What definition of beta are you using?

 

It could be argued that this game fits the definition of a perpetual beta anyway since it is not in any way feature complete as of yet.

[BigPurpleHarness]

FFXI is still a beta I guess. It has bugs and new content added. WoW also. Dark Souls 2 is a beta also. Again, if you can't see the beta tag as a marketing ploy, I really don't know what to say. Although I do admire your consumerism, as a businessman.

[Arabaxus]

Many F2P games never come out of beta these days, because since under the name of a beta, they are immune to many sorts of things, such as "since this is a beta, and therefore testing ground, we can scrap it for whatever reason whenever we want and have no need to refund" and all sorts of nonsense. I played another game that was literally in Beta for its entire lifespan until it was scrapped. And by lifespan I mean years.

[Moderius]

Tell me why do fully released multiplayer games like Borderlands 2, Grand Theft Auto 5, WoW, etc. still release downloadable content? They're beta too? No? Well then.

Did we have to pay for a retail game or the new content being released? No? Well then.

 

I guess you don't have a point after all.

[xveganrox]

If you don't consider Warframe to be beta, play the hilariously broken new Dark Sectors for a few minutes.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

FFXI is still a beta I guess. It has bugs and new content added. WoW also. Dark Souls 2 is a beta also. Again, if you can't see the beta tag as a marketing ploy, I really don't know what to say. Although I do admire your consumerism, as a businessman.

The beta tag is a marketing ploy and a description of the type of program we are participating in. A beta is a work in progress. Their is no retail version. You can play totally for free or invest money in the project. Doesn't make it any less a beta. It is not presented as a finished product. Just because you don't like the idea of open beta doesn't mean it is not one.

[NuBSMcGee]

Let me preface this by saying I did not and will not read this thread. I just wanted to respond to the opening post.

 

Your opinion of whether warframe is a beta or not is irrelevant.

 

BETA Is a status decided by the developers and only the developers. It signifies a product that is still in heavy development, or not yet reached it's initial launch vision, or a product that is in "testing". NO amount of opinion by a player will change that.

 

u14 is a fantastic example of how this product is still a beta product. Did you not notice how DE released u14 with lots of bugs, quality control issues, and balance issues? Notice how many changes get made after releasing something? These things are happening because DE is using their "BETA TESTERS" (pronounced US) to....TEST the new features so they can get feedback and improve on them..

[Ionus]

FFXI is still a beta I guess. It has bugs and new content added. WoW also. Dark Souls 2 is a beta also. Again, if you can't see the beta tag as a marketing ploy, I really don't know what to say. Although I do admire your consumerism, as a businessman.

Last I checked you had to have a subscription for WoW and FFXI. DS2 is also $60. And that's not even including expansion packs.

[UmbraVenator]

Beating this dead horse still? What does adding a real cash shop do to affecting the actual life cycle of a product?

Nothing.  This game IS still a beta.

 

Textbook definition of a beta, "Beta: In this stage the program is near completion. All of the features are working and the software is often opened up to the public to test. There may still be some bugs that need to be worked out that may not have shown up in alpha testing."

 

Since DE has the core of the game mechanics already working and because games have a bit different life cycle than most software (missing/changing features) Warframe can be said to be out of alpha.

 

Though we are just arguing semantics, if you want to use an industry(software life cycle) definition the closest thing I can think of is Perpetual Beta. This is still a Beta. Please just let this horse RIP. Beyblades.