Who Misses Charge Attacks? Returning Confirmed-Edition + Poll

[(PSN)Darkrai848]

1 word GLAIVE the only good melee weapon, still has its charge attack... if only all weapons worked like it did.

[dashashou]

1 word GLAIVE the only good melee weapon, still has its charge attack... if only all weapons worked like it did.

 

after using the new shield w/ the throwing combo  i said "if only it worked like the glaive ", the charge attack is a need to return type thing !

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ravel7

[BoomToon43]

after using the new shield w/ the throwing combo  i said "if only it worked like the glaive ", the charge attack is a need to return type thing !

+1

[Ryme]

I feel that charge attacks added a depth of skill to combat that the current combos simply don't; when to charge, when to dodge, when to advance, when to kite. While the the current system involves much more extravagant animations, they are superficial and full of useless fluff. You are still just jamming the one melee button over and over. Worse of all, you have minimal control over the actual attack sequence. All the attacks are prescripted into the combo chain. It doesn't matter when you want to lunge, slash, thrust, or slam.

 

For example, aerial enemies. Something that hovers at shoulder level is all but immune to normal attack chains, because they hover above the area your melee attacks swipe through. At best, there is a combo chain that forces you to move through 3 or 4 superfluous animations, before it does a leaping or upward attack to take out the target that should've died with your first swing. That's like having an enemy that's vulnerable to only one form of damage, and then forcing everyone to use guns that rotate damage types with each shot.

 

I'm sure there are people who are mashing the one button repeatedly, while thinking "Look at all the cool flips I'm doing, I must be awesome!" Which is fine for them; whatever makes them feel good and all. But personally, I'm hitting the melee key, screaming at the screen "No! Don't flip away! He's not dead yet! Why are you doing ballet instead of swinging the sword?"

 

I would like to have more control over over my attack moves; or rather, each 'move' should be available on demand, not as something we have to go through 3 or 4 other attacks to reach.

 

I don't need to have a dance off with the enemy. I need to stick the pointy end through the other guy. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ryme

[Azamagon]

I feel that charge attacks added a depth of skill to combat that the current combos simply don't; when to charge, when to dodge, when to advance, when to kite. While the the current system involves much more extravagant animations, they are superficial and full of useless fluff. You are still just jamming the one melee button over and over. Worse of all, you have minimal control over the actual attack sequence. All the attacks are prescripted into the combo chain. It doesn't matter when you want to lunge, slash, thrust, or slam.

 

For example, aerial enemies. Something that hovers at shoulder level is all but immune to normal attack chains, because they hover above the area your melee attacks swipe through. At best, there is a combo chain that forces you to move through 3 or 4 superfluous animations, before it does a leaping or upward attack to take out the target that should've died with your first swing. That's like having an enemy that's vulnerable to only one form of damage, and then forcing everyone to use guns that rotate damage types with each shot.

 

I'm sure there are people who are mashing the one button repeatedly, while thinking "Look at all the cool flips I'm doing, I must be awesome!" Which is fine for them; whatever makes them feel good and all. But personally, I'm hitting the melee key, screaming at the screen "No! Don't flip away! He's not dead yet! Why are you doing ballet instead of swinging the sword?"

 

I would like to have more control over over my attack moves; or rather, each 'move' should be available on demand, not as something we have to go through 3 or 4 other attacks to reach.

 

I don't need to have a dance off with the enemy. I need to stick the pointy end through the other guy. 

Well put. Function is always better than shiny fluff, if it's a choice between one or the other. But DE is going absolutely opposite from that mindset:

 

* Combos, channeling and meleemode, but removal of chargeattacks and quickblocking. Shinier, but far less useful and far less on demand.

* The Liset instead of the old UI. Shinier, but waaaay slower.

* The new mods. Shinier, but absolutely horrendous in terms of modding speed. Quickest way to observe a mod is with the picture, not the name!

 

Seems like they just got lost a looooooooooooong time ago. And it's not that I'm even against the "shiny fluff" either. As long as it doesn't remove the practical stuff. I mean, here's how it could've been done:

 

* Chargeattacks and quickblocking kept ALONG with the new and shiny combos and stuff. Just make chargeattacks work with regular damagemods for damage and attackspeed for chargespeed. Quickblocking could be a bit less stamina-efficient or something. Combos should still be accessable in gunmode too imo. Channeling and blocking efficiency should be the main reason to go meleemode.

* The Liset still done, but toggleable between the old UI (with improvements for new buttons of course and maybe a new style, but with the same essence as it used to be: Quick and efficient) and the new ship UI. At least, make the Diegetic menu less submenu-riddled, as it's faster to run around in the ship than to use it...

* Still keep the new compact mods, but far less opaque ones (modrank used to be black and white, good contrasts, compared to the current light blue and dark blue, very weak in contrast. horrible colour choices), and with the ability to toggle compacted or full picture at all times.

 

^ Fluff and function, yes please. Fluff INSTEAD of function? No thanks, that's the idiotic mindset of the current era which I absolutely abhor.

[BoomToon43]

Well put. Function is always better than shiny fluff, if it's a choice between one or the other. But DE is going absolutely opposite from that mindset:

 

* Combos, channeling and meleemode, but removal of chargeattacks and quickblocking. Shinier, but far less useful and far less on demand.

* The Liset instead of the old UI. Shinier, but waaaay slower.

* The new mods. Shinier, but absolutely horrendous in terms of modding speed. Quickest way to observe a mod is with the picture, not the name!

 

Seems like they just got lost a looooooooooooong time ago. And it's not that I'm even against the "shiny fluff" either. As long as it doesn't remove the practical stuff. I mean, here's how it could've been done:

 

* Chargeattacks and quickblocking kept ALONG with the new and shiny combos and stuff. Just make chargeattacks work with regular damagemods for damage and attackspeed for chargespeed. Quickblocking could be a bit less stamina-efficient or something. Combos should still be accessable in gunmode too imo. Channeling and blocking efficiency should be the main reason to go meleemode.

* The Liset still done, but toggleable between the old UI (with improvements for new buttons of course and maybe a new style, but with the same essence as it used to be: Quick and efficient) and the new ship UI. At least, make the Diegetic menu less submenu-riddled, as it's faster to run around in the ship than to use it...

* Still keep the new compact mods, but far less opaque ones (modrank used to be black and white, good contrasts, compared to the current light blue and dark blue, very weak in contrast. horrible colour choices), and with the ability to toggle compacted or full picture at all times.

 

^ Fluff and function, yes please. Fluff INSTEAD of function? No thanks, that's the idiotic mindset of the current era which I absolutely abhor.

the major problem with charge attacks working with with normal melee mods is it making it WAY to powerful, for in stands the glaive, the only weapon with charge still in the game,with killing blow it did 231, with corrupt charge 462,and with rendering strike 739.2, now since it works with normal dmg mods, 231, pressure point, 462 with spoiled strike, and with full channeling build to 4,065.6( 6098.4 with crit.) and thats nor including what elementals do to the dmg, If you thought that is powerful wait till you see what the galitine an do if that happens, that galitine did 880 with maxed killing blow, 1,408 with rendering strike, and 2,816 with corrupt charge, now with pressure point 880 dmg, 1,760 with spoiled strike, and with a full channeling build 15,488 dmg(30,976 with a crit) same with charge speed but in a bad way , reflex coil, added 60% and focus energy adding 40%, fury adds 30%, but with quicking that makes 50% and with berseker the speed goes up to 80%which compard to the reflex coil and focus energy, build have 100% speed boost( aka literally halving the charge speed.

Edited September 2, 2014 by BoomToon43

[Ryme]

the major problem with charge attacks working with with normal melee mods is it making it WAY to powerful, for in stands the glaive, the only weapon with charge still in the game,with killing blow it did 231, with corrupt charge 462,and with rendering strike 739.2, now since it works with normal dmg mods, 231, pressure point, 462 with spoiled strike, and with full channeling build to 4,065.6( 6098.4 with crit.) and thats nor including what elementals do to the dmg, If you thought that is powerful wait till you see what the galitine an do if that happens, that galitine did 880 with maxed killing blow, 1,408 with rendering strike, and 2,816 with corrupt charge, now with pressure point 880 dmg, 1,760 with spoiled strike, and with a full channeling build 15,488 dmg

 

A flaw is that your calculations seem to assume charge damage mods that have been converted to channeling damage, would somehow be doubled up to buff both, which would be ridiculous without some other balancing factor, or mechanics limitation. Also, factor in the lack of charge time reduction, which has been converted into channeling efficiency, and the risk tradeoff becomes even greater.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ryme

[dashashou]

o ryme 

 

A flaw is that your calculations seem to assume charge damage mods that have been converted to channeling damage, would somehow be doubled up to buff both, which would be ridiculous without some other balancing factor, or mechanics limitation. Also, factor in the lack of charge time reduction, which has been converted into channeling efficiency, and the risk tradeoff becomes even greater.

or u could  just pick which buf they apply , the charge dmg or the channel ,; or DE could just make more mods they love doing that !

[Ryme]

o ryme 

 

or u could  just pick which buf they apply , the charge dmg or the channel ,; or DE could just make more mods they love doing that !

 

That's kind of the point; the damage only becomes preposterously OP if you apply both. Apply only one and it remains quite reasonable. Making new mods would also take up points that would presumably also prevent both from being applied to full effect, still keeping the end result within reason.

[BoomToon43]

A flaw is that your calculations seem to assume charge damage mods that have been converted to channeling damage, would somehow be doubled up to buff both, which would be ridiculous without some other balancing factor, or mechanics limitation. Also, factor in the lack of charge time reduction, which has been converted into channeling efficiency, and the risk tradeoff becomes even greater.

yea your right

[Azamagon]

@ Ryme and BoomToon43

What are you guys talking about? Chargeattacks should be boosted in the same way as regular attacks do: Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike = Damage. Fury + Quickenng + Berserker proc = Faster charge.

Because if they bring back mods in any way that boosts chargeattacks seperate from mods that improves all other attacks, we get the same problem we had before Melee 2.0: You can only mod for one or the other = No variety in your attacks once again. And I don't think ANYONE want that lack of variety brought back again...

[Ryme]

@ Ryme and BoomToon43

What are you guys talking about? Chargeattacks should be boosted in the same way as regular attacks do: Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike = Damage. Fury + Quickenng + Berserker proc = Faster charge.

Because if they bring back mods in any way that boosts chargeattacks seperate from mods that improves all other attacks, we get the same problem we had before Melee 2.0: You can only mod for one or the other = No variety in your attacks once again. And I don't think ANYONE want that lack of variety brought back again...

 

I was merely addressing the concern that charge damage would be ridiculously op in the range of 20K+ if reintroduced.

 

Ideally, the whole melee system needs another pass. Having cool animations is nice, but having actual control over your attacks-- when to do a flip, when to slash, when to jab, when to thrust, and when to lunge-- would be better. Currently the combos are pre-defined animation chains that utilize a number of different attacks, but don't make any of them available to you on demand. You have to go through the 3 or 4 different and often pointlessly wasted swings, just to get to the one you want.

[BoomToon43]

@ Ryme and BoomToon43

What are you guys talking about? Chargeattacks should be boosted in the same way as regular attacks do: Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike = Damage. Fury + Quickenng + Berserker proc = Faster charge.

Because if they bring back mods in any way that boosts chargeattacks seperate from mods that improves all other attacks, we get the same problem we had before Melee 2.0: You can only mod for one or the other = No variety in your attacks once again. And I don't think ANYONE want that lack of variety brought back again...

well thats true l, but the charge attack would wither 1. Get a Huge dmg nerf or 2. No channeling charge attacks. And also there would need a small charge speed mod ( possible 20% or %30) due to the the total charge speed boost before being a total of 100%(focus energy & reflex coil.) And with ALL 3 (quickening, fury, berserker) adding up to only 80%And over 1/2 the weapons not making berseker viable making it 50% charge speed for any weapon w/out good crit.

[saltshaker42]

I miss my Gram's charge attack. :/ So much kill 

[BoomToon43]

I miss my Gram's charge attack. :/ So much kill 

 

I miss the Orthos's charge attack SO much!

[BoomToon43]

they mentioned heavy weapon buffs on devstream 36 :D

[9tailboy]

This, would make the galatine OP once again, so no, melee 2.0 did a good deed for all melee weapons.

[Rakshal]

This, would make the galatine OP once again, so no, melee 2.0 did a good deed for all melee weapons.

But, melee 2.0 just changed the meta. Now instead of heavy melee weapons being the meta it is now high DPS weapons and critical weapons.

[Alphafox]

But, melee 2.0 just changed the meta. Now instead of heavy melee weapons being the meta it is now high DPS weapons and critical weapons.

All of you guys seem to forget that a vast majority of melee weapons are valid now, instead of charge weapons only. I prefer more variety over using only 2 weapons.

[Scherhardt]

But, melee 2.0 just changed the meta. Now instead of heavy melee weapons being the meta it is now high DPS weapons and critical weapons.

The very reason why we will never have a balanced arsenal.

I mean, every weapon type should specialize in a certain stats.

One example is that daggers should really have fast attack speed. Duals should have slower speed but higher crit chance, heavies having massive damage but really slow attack speed, swords being the most balanced etc..

 

I really think DE missed the point of these. They can strive hard on balancing each and every weapon but it will never be attained due to design.

For that Melee 2.0 actually made it worse because of channeling. 

Edited September 6, 2014 by Scherhardt

[Scherhardt]

All of you guys seem to forget that a vast majority of melee weapons are valid now, instead of charge weapons only. I prefer more variety over using only 2 weapons.

You're wrong. Most weapons are still really weak over 60+ enemies.

Only a handful are viable to that point unless you're a loki/ash or and excal who uses invis and blind.

[Alphafox]

You're wrong. Most weapons are still really weak over 60+ enemies.

Only a handful are viable to that point unless you're a loki/ash or and excal who uses invis and blind.

I agree with you but thats still better than the 2 only weapons that were viable.

[BoomToon43]

if you think about it, pretty much no weapons got dmg buffs, dakra got 55 to 60, orthos prime 60 to 63, reaper prime & Hate 50 to 60. and the stance crimson deverish gave all long swords a buff.

 

 Only 2 weps viable you say? i used Orthos, galitine, dakra prime,dual zorens, dual ethers, reaper prime & Hate,fang prime, amphris, glaive & kestrel, scoliac, and kogate & obex.

 

 

The charge attack weapons i used( including the ones that wernt very Amazing like the galitine.)Scindo, Jat kittag,galitine, orthos, Hate, obex(charge then finsiher) glaive and kestrel.

 

The light attack weapons i used: dakra prime, fang prime, dual zorens, kogate, reaper prime,  scoliac, orthos prme, jat kittag( i had a charge build and a light build because, it has the highest base dmg at the time.)Dual ether, amphris.

Edited September 6, 2014 by BoomToon43

[Snorkachu]

Now, before I say anything, I should let you all know that I am a (reletivaly) new player, and that I was not playing when charge attacks were here. But I've watched videos on players using them. I don't like how the quick melee is almost usless. If you want to do dmg, you have the unsheath it all the way. Maybe if they made charge attacks on quick attacks, and left the stances alone. But I'm just tossing ideas out.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Snorkachu

[Noabettiet]

I miss charge attacks so much. Though i like channeling too, i wish i could do both.. 

 

Maybe even have charge attacks shoot shockwaves when in channeling mode.