Coming Oberon Changes

[GhostSwordsman]

The current toggle proposal is too much.  Right now what Oberon needs is an automatic heal based on the % of the max heal he's set to do via the mods installed.  After the automatic instant heal (no travel time!!) we'd still get the current over time heal and the additional proc mitigator...but adding the toggle and energy drain was too much.  If Oberon is to be used effectively to help a team and especially on the move then he needs to not have to worry about energy consumption for a basic heal that by no means warrants an energy drain.  If you really need a full time healer that's what Trinity is for.  

I agree with the energy consumption being too much. I was just playing and found my self out of energy every single time I needed it while healing.

 I recall one of the complaints about renewal was that it was useless in combat, and it still is because it uses all or most of your energy and leaves you unable to cast even smite at times and to fend off enemies with just your weapons, no cc. -.- When you get into a sticky situation and need to start healing (i.e. moving to extraction) and run into another mob, there isn't any energy to use other powers, and there certainly won't be any energy to re-cast renewal. DE please remove the energy drain and toggle and return renewal to a fire and forget power.

[LukeAura]

I understand why the devs might be hesitant on the idea of making Renewal continue after hp restores to max, essentially letting Oberon create a temporary/inferior version of old QT+R, But could we at least have it cast faster/make its instant heal activate instantly? As an incombat skill it's very difficult to use effectively because of the length of the animation. 

[PsycloneM]

I just finished spending a good portion of my evening testing Oberon's newly-modified abilities, and I've updated his wiki article. I still need to examine client behavior to see if his abilities are functioning properly.

 

 

Smite

 

I'm definitely observing a higher success rate of projectiles hitting additional enemies. The homing capabilities do seem a bit sluggish, and the projectiles appear to seek enemies when they are within a specified range. If no enemy is near the projectile as it travels, it will continue to bounce through the environment as it has in the past.

 

The forced procs are behaving as they should. One thing I should note is that prior to these changes, Smite's projectiles had a very small chance to proc radiation. Despite the forced puncture proc, I have observed projectiles occasionally proc'ing radiation and puncture simultaneously.

 

- The old radiation proc chance still seems to be in place for Smite's projectiles, and I'm not sure if this was intended.

 

Overall, these changes are nice improvement over the original power.

 

 

Hallowed Ground

 

I have mixed feelings about this power. I enjoy the addition of team-wide status proc removal and proc immunity. It works against volatile runner explosion staggers, leaper attacks, ancient/scorpion pulls, disruption, radial knockdowns, and so on. It's definitely Hallowed Ground's best addition in my opinion. 

 

However, the find the armor boost to be underwhelming.

 

- While the armor percentage is affected by power strength, the percentage doesn't stack with additional casts.

- With a few exceptions, most players are not going to notice the difference that a single instance of +20% base armor makes.

 

While the patch notes did not state that stacking was in place, I wanted to test it out for myself to be sure. My Oberon has 300 armor, and a level-26 charger inflicts a total of 160 impact damage per swipe. At 300 armor, Oberon has 50% damage resistance to health. Since impact damage deals 25% less damage to flesh, we should expect one swipe to deal 160 x 0.75 x 0.5 = 60 damage to Oberon's health. This is exactly what I observe.

 

I placed down one Hallowed Ground, and had another level-26 charger attack my health. I lost 58 health every swing. Upon placing another Hallowed Ground on top of the first, I still lost 58 health per swing. I had the same results with three casts.

 

The effects not stacking are one thing note. What I'm also trying to highlight with this test is that +20% base armor only reduced the damage of the charger's attacks by 2 per swing. There are 15 warframes that have less base armor than Oberon, and the difference +20% base armor makes to their effective health is even less significant. Effective health (EHP) is determined by the following expression: EHP = HP x ( 1 + armor / 300 ). Here's how much effective health a warframe gains per +20% increase of base armor:

 

 

15 armor

( 300 + 15 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 15 ) - 1 = +0.95%

 

50 armor

( 300 + 50 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 50 ) - 1 = +2.86%

 

65 armor

( 300 + 65 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 65 ) - 1 = +3.56%

 

150 armor

( 300 + 150 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 150 ) - 1 = +6.67%

 

155 armor

( 300 + 155 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 155 ) - 1 = +6.81%

 

190 armor

( 300 + 190 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 190 ) - 1 = +7.76%

 

600 armor

( 300 + 600 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 600 ) - 1 = +13.33%

 

 

Based on this information, a 15-armor warframe would require 105 Hallowed Grounds to double its effective health, whereas a 600-armor warframe would require 8. This disparity is why I've suggested in the past to base the armor percentage on Oberon's total armor rating—a constant value that will increase ally armor by a constant amount. This way, low-armored warframes (which make up a majority) can gain sufficient levels of survivability. As it is now, Hallowed Ground's armor boost works the best with Valkyr by a significant margin.

 

I shared my suggestion for Hallowed Ground earlier this week. Changes like those would allow the armor boost to be valuable to all warframes (regardless of base armor), while providing a sufficient boost to damage resistance per cast.

 

 

I have some more feedback for Renewal and Reckoning (especially the latter since the blind effect does not appear to be functioning), but I'll leave that for tomorrow.

Edited August 29, 2014 by PsycloneM

[J-Reyno]

Renewal would benefit from being a true toggle, allowing the effect to persist even after allies have max hp so that it can function as a safety net to start regeneration immediately when allies start taking health damage.  Because the heal rate is fixed and does not increase with energy gain this implementation could not be abused with rage, which would only allow Oberon to maintain it.  Renewal's heal rate is not enough to sustain any frame under even moderate fire, it's simply a buffer against damage that grants a bit more effective health.

 

What this would do is allow Oberon to offer an alternative form of healing to Trinity, who is a immediate-reactionary healer.  Oberon would instead be a sustain healer, but still less effective at keeping allies alive under heavy fire, which is appropriate since he is a hybrid.  The current Renewal is a bit wonky and awkward due to both the cancel on individual allies once they hit max health and the projectile travel time.  Allowing it to persist would be great for the flow of gameplay and would add the oomph Oberon needs to grant him a real niche of his own.

Edited August 29, 2014 by LazarusDark

[Erelas]

 

Based on this information, a 15-armor warframe would require 105 Hallowed Grounds to double its effective health, whereas a 600-armor warframe would require 8. This disparity is why I've suggested in the past to base the armor percentage on Oberon's total armor rating—a constant value that will increase ally armor by a constant amount. This way, low-armored warframes (which make up a majority) can gain sufficient levels of survivability. As it is now, Hallowed Ground's armor boost works the best with Valkyr by a significant margin.

 

I shared my suggestion for Hallowed Ground earlier this week. Changes like those would allow the armor boost to be valuable to all warframes (regardless of base armor), while providing a sufficient boost to damage resistance per cast.

 

 

I have some more feedback for Renewal and Reckoning (especially the latter since the blind effect does not appear to be functioning), but I'll leave that for tomorrow.

Your feed back and response validates precisely why I asked for more base armor, in addition to Hallowed Ground being something that is not aura-like and static around the Warframe, it makes it a skill that needs to be cast every time the team pauses in one place--which doesn't happen often.  I don't mind the changes to it, but changing size and shape would help.  As for the armor addition, it should be more beneficial for allies with a base armor much less than heavier Paladin types like Oberon is meant to be.  I've asked for a base of 200 on Oberon because of the fact that the current base does little for him...even 200 may be too small as well.  If he's truly going to be in a more supportive team role he needs to be able to cast without the need to worry about his own health and proc dmg bleeding him out while supporting.  In addition, I'd like to point out as I have before that he should be considered a heavier frame up there with Frost and Rhino, he doesn't need to be a tank but be able to support and absorb dmg.  To that end, giving him a high base armor would not be unreasonable, the other two frames both have a skill giving them another shield to absorb dmg while already having high armor.  No reason to be skimpy here.

As for Renewal, the toggle really needs to go, not only is it hard to handle on PC and switch off/on right after the long animation, but the drain is NOT needed.  Just give a base immediate heal without travel time and then let the rest work with the HoT like it did before, one cast and a set cost for energy being used to cast it.  Simple and effective but not overpowered.  

[Varzy]

I just finished spending a good portion of my evening testing Oberon's newly-modified abilities, and I've updated his wiki article. I still need to examine client behavior to see if his abilities are functioning properly.

 

Hallowed Ground

 

I have mixed feelings about this power. I enjoy the addition of team-wide status proc removal and proc immunity. It works against volatile runner explosion staggers, leaper attacks, ancient/scorpion pulls, disruption, radial knockdowns, and so on. It's definitely Hallowed Ground's best addition in my opinion. 

 

However, the find the armor boost to be underwhelming.

 

- While the armor percentage is affected by power strength, the percentage doesn't stack with additional casts.

- With a few exceptions, most players are not going to notice the difference that a single instance of +20% base armor makes.

 

While the patch notes did not state that stacking was in place, I wanted to test it out for myself to be sure. My Oberon has 300 armor, and a level-26 charger inflicts a total of 160 impact damage per swipe. At 300 armor, Oberon has 50% damage resistance to health. Since impact damage deals 25% less damage to flesh, we should expect one swipe to deal 160 x 0.75 x 0.5 = 60 damage to Oberon's health. This is exactly what I observe.

 

I placed down one Hallowed Ground, and had another level-26 charger attack my health. I lost 58 health every swing. Upon placing another Hallowed Ground on top of the first, I still lost 58 health per swing. I had the same results with three casts.

 

The effects not stacking are one thing note. What I'm also trying to highlight with this test is that +20% base armor only reduced the damage of the charger's attacks by 2 per swing. There are 15 warframes that have less base armor than Oberon, and the difference +20% base armor makes to their damage resistance is even less significant. Effective health (EHP) is determined by the following expression: EHP = HP x ( 1 + armor / 300 ). Here's how much effective health a warframe gains per +20% increase of base armor:

 

 

15 armor

( 300 + 15 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 15 ) - 1 = +0.95%

 

50 armor

( 300 + 50 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 50 ) - 1 = +2.86%

 

65 armor

( 300 + 65 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 65 ) - 1 = +3.56%

 

150 armor

( 300 + 150 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 150 ) - 1 = +6.67%

 

155 armor

( 300 + 155 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 155 ) - 1 = +6.81%

 

190 armor

( 300 + 190 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 190 ) - 1 = +7.76%

 

600 armor

( 300 + 600 x 1.2 ) / ( 300 + 600 ) - 1 = +13.33%

 

 

Based on this information, a 15-armor warframe would require 105 Hallowed Grounds to double its effective health, whereas a 600-armor warframe would require 8. This disparity is why I've suggested in the past to base the armor percentage on Oberon's total armor rating—a constant value that will increase ally armor by a constant amount. This way, low-armored warframes (which make up a majority) can gain sufficient levels of survivability. As it is now, Hallowed Ground's armor boost works the best with Valkyr by a significant margin.

 

I shared my suggestion for Hallowed Ground earlier this week. Changes like those would allow the armor boost to be valuable to all warframes (regardless of base armor), while providing a sufficient boost to damage resistance per cast.

 

The armor buff of Hallowed Ground is certainly underwhelming and I really hope DE takes your calculations into consideration.

 

Making the armor buff based on the total armor casting Oberon (and potentially increasing the %) would open up interesting modding options for Oberon players.

[Shoesington]

So, after reading through 25 pages of community opinions, I have come to some conclusions, along with my personal experience pre-'buff'.

One: Smite isn't awful any more. Puncture procs are very welcome as a utility.

Two: Hallowed Ground is still not worth slotting in any game mode that requires movement (read: everything except infested defence. And then the radiation damage is even more awful.) The %armor buff is completely ignorable for most other frames. Static fights are not the style of play for ninjas. Not even space ones.

Three: Renewal is somehow even worse than it was. Press button, receive slow, capped regeneration wasn't amazing, but it worked. The energy drain over time is far too taxing on Oberon's relatively limited health pool. Used to slot this in for patching up between fights, now I'd rather forma for rejuvenation.

Four: the new utility aspects of Reckoning are very welcome, but seem incoherent? Radial blind effect when they survive? Anyway, pre-changes this could provide pseudo CC by just recasting it endlessly, and now its like a mini, spamable Chaos. It works, but the damage is still negligible in T3+, like all other damage powers.

The community needs to be listened to on these changes. Hollowed Ground is something that will get left back in the mod collection almost every time now. Renewal is too taxing to keep up for when it is needed. Now let's get one of the frame programmers in here to address this particularly stinky kettle of fish.

[RealPandemonium]

So, after reading through 25 pages of community opinions, I have come to some conclusions, along with my personal experience pre-'buff'.

One: Smite isn't awful any more. Puncture procs are very welcome as a utility.

Two: Hallowed Ground is still not worth slotting in any game mode that requires movement (read: everything except infested defence. And then the radiation damage is even more awful.) The %armor buff is completely ignorable for most other frames. Static fights are not the style of play for ninjas. Not even space ones.

Three: Renewal is somehow even worse than it was. Press button, receive slow, capped regeneration wasn't amazing, but it worked. The energy drain over time is far too taxing on Oberon's relatively limited health pool. Used to slot this in for patching up between fights, now I'd rather forma for rejuvenation.

Four: the new utility aspects of Reckoning are very welcome, but seem incoherent? Radial blind effect when they survive? Anyway, pre-changes this could provide pseudo CC by just recasting it endlessly, and now its like a mini, spamable Chaos. It works, but the damage is still negligible in T3+, like all other damage powers.

The community needs to be listened to on these changes. Hollowed Ground is something that will get left back in the mod collection almost every time now. Renewal is too taxing to keep up for when it is needed. Now let's get one of the frame programmers in here to address this particularly stinky kettle of fish.

Agreed.  This is what happens when DE implements a mishmash of player suggestions instead of just fixing the core functionality of each ability and adding frills as needed.  Also, trying really hard to implement the toggle mechanic where it's not needed.  (DE should make Ember's 4 a toggle; that's where it's needed.)

Edited August 29, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Erelas]

Agreed.  This is what happens when DE implements a mishmash of player suggestions instead of just fixing the core functionality of each ability and adding frills as needed.  Also, trying really hard to implement the toggle mechanic where it's not needed.  (DE should make Ember's 4 a toggle; that's where it's needed.)

I wouldn't go that far.  DE listened to player opinions b/c we are the ones that are seeing the plus and minus as avid everyday players, some of us are truly invested in the design thereof and taking heed to our voices is essential in making a well rounded and playable game.  The core functionality of the skills themselves for the most part were weak.  The suggestions made were good but were turned into something many players were not actually asking for, making for a less viable skill overall. 

Agreed with the toggle mechanic needing to be taken out wholeheartedly.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Erelas

[Varzy]

I wouldn't go that far.  DE listened to player opinions b/c we are the ones that are seeing the plus and minus as avid everyday players, some of us are truly invested in the design thereof and taking heed to our voices is essential in making a well rounded and playable game.  The core functionality of the skills themselves for the most part were weak.  The suggestions made were good but were turned into something many players were not actually asking for, making for a less viable skill overall. 

Agreed with the toggle mechanic needing to be taken out wholeheartedly.

I actually disagree that the toggle mechanic should be removed. The energy drain is 25 initially and then 5/sec, and it lasts 10 seconds -- that's a total of 75 energy, same as before. If you use duration mods the cost is even cheaper.

 

With the toggle effect, an initial short heal of 125 health can be gotten with just 25 energy, which is great for personal use. I concede the skill is still difficult to use to maintain a team.

 

In my eyes the real problems are:

- Lack of visibility, it's to difficult to tell at a game when Renewal is active. Give it a timer.

- Regen cancels on full health - make it persist so it's useful mid-battle.

 

- Detoggle cancels effects on other players, but the delay in casting the skill to the orb actually reaching an ally means the energy drain can extend far beyond the 10s it's designed for. Some solutions might be:

  --- Let the duration of the effect on allies mirror the duration of the effect on Oberon. Ie, if you let Renewal run for 5 seconds, allies get 5 seconds of Renewal.

  --- When orb reaches allies, they get the 125 heal plus a lump of healing equivelent to healing on Oberon, making up for lost time so to speak.

  --- Have Renewal either affect allies instantly or have it guaranteed to affect allies within at least 3 seconds (perhaps only if they're within 50m of you). This makes usage of the skill much easier to predict and increases the 'potential' cost of the skill by only 15 energy at the very maximum (total energy drain, 25 + 50 + 15 = 90).

Edited August 30, 2014 by Varzy

[Erelas]

I actually disagree that the toggle mechanic should be removed. The energy drain is 25 initially and then 5/sec, and it lasts 10 seconds -- that's a total of 75 energy, same as before. If you use duration mods the cost is even cheaper.

 

With the toggle effect, an initial short heal of 125 health can be gotten with just 25 energy, which is great for personal use. I concede the skill is still difficult to use to maintain a team.

Here's the problem with that, the toggle in and of itself in game is ungainly and not easy to manage while in an intense fight.  One can easily run out of energy if you don't hit the toggle off again at just the right point and all of a sudden (whether low energy cost or not) you are out of energy.  I've already been testing this in higher level content.  It just doesn't work.  

I can't concede this, I agree with others that the toggle does not need to be there, it was fine as a one shot cast skill before, just needed actual improvements to the skill, not how it operated.

~All that it really needs is an automatic set heal based on the % of the heal set by the mod strength equipped, and the rest of the HoT can fall into place.  I don't see using Oberon as a healer when we already have that role with a Trinity, the spot heal with the bonus to proc mit is fine.

If you do that you can dispense with all the extra points having to be changed that you have listed, visibility will always be a  problem with healers as regen is something altogether more healer based and hard to keep an eye on unless that's your sole role--while I see it being something really nice to have, I don't expect it on Oberon who is not a healer in his description.

Duration of effect can and should stay the same as the amount of points put into the mod slots, whether its based on duration or strength, idc.  If a regen were to be present perhaps the mods would be the contributors to the duration, or it could be a set base duration given to the regen itself after the initial skill has been cast and in play.

What it comes down to is that this skill needs to give an instant % heal, a HoT, and be less ungainly (by this I mean it's not only physically hard to keep track of but also by sight sometimes you miss that it's still running) in its use...no reason to have a toggle, again, there. is. no. reason. to. have. a. toggle.  

 

He's not a healer, spot healer yes and supportive, but not a healer.  The energy he has needs to be able to be used in other ways than just a heal in intense and high level fights.  The current toggle that I've tested does not allow for that in those parameters and is proving to be a deficit to Oberon game play.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Erelas

[Varzy]

Here's the problem with that, the toggle in and of itself in game is ungainly and not easy to manage while in an intense fight.  One can easily run out of energy if you don't hit the toggle off again at just the right point and all of a sudden (whether low energy cost or not) you are out of energy.  I've already been testing this in higher level content.  It just doesn't work.  

I can't concede this, I agree with others that the toggle does not need to be there, it was fine as a one shot cast skill before, just needed actual improvements to the skill, not how it operated.

~All that it really needs is an automatic set heal based on the % of the heal set by the mod strength equipped, and the rest of the HoT can fall into place.  I don't see using Oberon as a healer when we already have that role with a Trinity, the spot heal with the bonus to proc mit is fine.

If you do that you can dispense with all the extra points having to be changed that you have listed, visibility will always be a  problem with healers as regen is something altogether more healer based and hard to keep an eye on unless that's your sole role--while I see it being something really nice to have, I don't expect it on Oberon who is not a healer in his description.

Duration of effect can and should stay the same as the amount of points put into the mod slots, whether its based on duration or strength, idc.  If a regen were to be present perhaps the mods would be the contributors to the duration, or it could be a set base duration given to the regen itself after the initial skill has been cast and in play.

What it comes down to is that this skill needs to give an instant % heal, a HoT, and be less ungainly (by this I mean it's not only physically hard to keep track of but also by sight sometimes you miss that it's still running) in its use...no reason to have a toggle, again, there. is. no. reason. to. have. a. toggle.  

 

He's not a healer, spot healer yes and supportive, but not a healer.  The energy he has needs to be able to be used in other ways than just a heal in intense and high level fights.  The current toggle that I've tested does not allow for that in those parameters and is proving to be a deficit to Oberon game play.

(For clarification, the three extra changes I listed were just meant to be three different paths the skill could take, not something that would apply at the same time.)

 

But isn't the reason you run out of energy in an intense fight because of the delay between casting the skill and it affecting your allies? Renewal lasts for 10s on you, but if it takes 5s for the orb to reach an ally then the skill will last for 15 seconds. Total cost is now 25 + 25 (drain during travel time) + 50 (drain during duration) = 100 energy. That problem needs to be addressed before we can throw the toggle out the window.

 

Like, that's the thing, I don't understand why the toggle drain is suddenly so impossible to maintain in a fight when the energy cost of the skill hasn't actually changed. I'm not disputing that this is what people experiencing, I'm trying to figure out why this is the case. You said that his energy pool needs to be spent elsewhere and that's very true, but before the change he was spending the same amount of energy on Renewal.

 

Something needs to be done so that the total cost of the skill in it's unmodded form never exceeds 75 energy, as before. Perhaps there's an issue here with duration and efficiency mods not affecting the Energy over Time correctly?

[Erelas]

(For clarification, the three extra changes I listed were just meant to be three different paths the skill could take, not something that would apply at the same time.)

 

But isn't the reason you run out of energy in an intense fight because of the delay between casting the skill and it affecting your allies? Renewal lasts for 10s on you, but if it takes 5s for the orb to reach an ally then the skill will last for 15 seconds. Total cost is now 25 + 25 (drain during travel time) + 50 (drain during duration) = 100 energy. That problem needs to be addressed before we can throw the toggle out the window.

 

Here, this is what's happening with the toggle.  You hit the skill, it initiates and ticks down energy while taking a couple seconds to get to your allies.  In addition, the cast animation (like it did before) takes a second or two making any other movement to dodge enemy fire or otherwise undo-able.  All the while, you're having to keep an eye on your allies, if the heal has reached them, if they're taking fire still, and if it's time to turn the toggle off so you aren't expending a continuous stream of energy.

What I stated before is this:

 Without the toggle, the skill could be made to fire with one touch of a button.  Therein, you would get a base heal that is automatic (animation or no), all allies would receive this instantly but it would be a fairly small heal dependent on the mods you have slotted for the strength of the effect.  In addition, once that heal is applied, the HoT starts.  Then, as you're saying a period of duration (set as a base time for the skill or via mod duration/strength doesn't matter to me) would come into effect for regen should they be taking dmg right after that heal.  

Essentially, this system would cover what the toggle is trying to do but in one shot and with a set amount of energy.  It would also free one to cast other skills in between and not have to worry for a little bit what's happening to health bars.  (It's out of ones healing control at that point).  Energy all the while is not being drained to maintain a steady heal on allies and self during a firefight.  

I have every efficiency mod slotted and while it takes less it's still a pain when you're constantly trying to cast different skills in support of a team under heavy fire with high level mobs.  The energy pool ends up being too thin and I come up with maybe enough to cast a Hallowed Ground or a Reckoning then I'm finished and everyone dies or goes on heroically without my Oberon's support.

The only other thing that might help solve the issue is adding two more mod slots to the Warframes for more options in mod line-up.  But that's a whole other story...

Edited August 30, 2014 by Erelas

[Varzy]

The only other thing that might help solve the issue is adding two more mod slots to the Warframes for more options in mod line-up.  But that's a whole other story...

Seriously. It's ridiculous that weapons get 8 mod slots and Warframes only get six, unless you want to go without your skills. We've long needed another 2 slots in the mod list, regardless of what some people might decry as unbalanced.

 

As for the rest, that's fair, I can understand the idea of the toggle creating a mental distraction. Nothing to sniff at in the middle of a battle.

[Erelas]

Seriously. It's ridiculous that weapons get 8 mod slots and Warframes only get six, unless you want to go without your skills. We've long needed another 2 slots in the mod list, regardless of what some people might decry as unbalanced.

 

As for the rest, that's fair, I can understand the idea of the toggle creating a mental distraction. Nothing to sniff at in the middle of a battle.

Right?

I was actually sitting in a fight yesterday and standing in one place using Renewal and almost all I did the whole fight was look at my energy bar and look up once or twice to shoot.  The toggle took away a lot from the freedom of my game play and the freedom to use my other skills b/c the current heal is no better than the original and now takes more energy and "babying" to make sure you don't overspend.

I'm just waiting for a fix at this point, till then I've been having fun with my Zephyr and Vectis.

[Varzy]

Right?

I was actually sitting in a fight yesterday and standing in one place using Renewal and almost all I did the whole fight was look at my energy bar and look up once or twice to shoot.  The toggle took away a lot from the freedom of my game play and the freedom to use my other skills b/c the current heal is no better than the original and now takes more energy and "babying" to make sure you don't overspend.

I'm just waiting for a fix at this point, till then I've been having fun with my Zephyr and Vectis.

Personally I still think there's certain things that could be done to reduce the babying. I'm really fond of using the skill as a personal low-cost quick heal, but this mental distraction might be too much after all.

 

I'm torn. Remove/reduce the travel time so we can more reliably know when our allies are being healed, but still have a slight mental distraction for that crucial ten seconds, or remove the toggle and have a fixed energy cost?

 

I want to give the toggle a better shot. Maybe make the skill have a higher base cost and a lower energy over time drain. (40 + 3.5/s?) That lessens the weight the toggle places on the use of other skills.

 

(Either way the damn healing needs to persist for the entire 10 seconds, the cap-off is ridiculous. And a very visible skill timer, too).

[Llyssa]

Too many people making opinions on things that are clearly bugged. Wait until after it's debugged(should be coming up early next week) before making any final analysis.

[Varzy]

Too many people making opinions on things that are clearly bugged. Wait until after it's debugged(should be coming up early next week) before making any final analysis.

When things are clearly bugged, like the 2 second explosion delay on Molecular Prime, I'm totally behind you on that.

 

However, Oberon's changes are new and we're not entirely sure what is and isn't a bug. Better to be vocal about what doesn't work in our eyes while DE is mindful of Oberon instead of waiting for the patch window to close.

[J-Reyno]

Agreed.  This is what happens when DE implements a mishmash of player suggestions instead of just fixing the core functionality of each ability and adding frills as needed.  Also, trying really hard to implement the toggle mechanic where it's not needed.  (DE should make Ember's 4 a toggle; that's where it's needed.)

 

I think I rarely agree with you, but I do here.  The powers themselves needed an actual rework, rather than having effects slapped on.  And while I promote making Renewal a true toggle, it could have also done with having a set base duration that allows it to persist throughout rather than a crappy max heal amount.  That along with the proc removal would have been plenty.  Toggle wasn't absolutely necessary, and now it's just a mess.

[GhostSwordsman]

Here, this is what's happening with the toggle.  You hit the skill, it initiates and ticks down energy while taking a couple seconds to get to your allies.  In addition, the cast animation (like it did before) takes a second or two making any other movement to dodge enemy fire or otherwise undo-able.  All the while, you're having to keep an eye on your allies, if the heal has reached them, if they're taking fire still, and if it's time to turn the toggle off so you aren't expending a continuous stream of energy.

What I stated before is this:

 Without the toggle, the skill could be made to fire with one touch of a button.  Therein, you would get a base heal that is automatic (animation or no), all allies would receive this instantly but it would be a fairly small heal dependent on the mods you have slotted for the strength of the effect.  In addition, once that heal is applied, the HoT starts.  Then, as you're saying a period of duration (set as a base time for the skill or via mod duration/strength doesn't matter to me) would come into effect for regen should they be taking dmg right after that heal.  

Essentially, this system would cover what the toggle is trying to do but in one shot and with a set amount of energy.  It would also free one to cast other skills in between and not have to worry for a little bit what's happening to health bars.  (It's out of ones healing control at that point).  Energy all the while is not being drained to maintain a steady heal on allies and self during a firefight.  

I have every efficiency mod slotted and while it takes less it's still a pain when you're constantly trying to cast different skills in support of a team under heavy fire with high level mobs.  The energy pool ends up being too thin and I come up with maybe enough to cast a Hallowed Ground or a Reckoning then I'm finished and everyone dies or goes on heroically without my Oberon's support.

This. They tried to make renewal viable in combat, and it hasn't changed one bit. -.- It is still best used when in between mobs or large fights, and this is solely because of the taxation on energy by the energy drain. I've seen myself lose about 20 or more energy due to the travel time of the orbs. (note that I run a reckoning-renewal build that is built for max efficiency and a hefty amount of increased power strength, with the occasional power range increase included) That is just too much in my opinion and ruins the viability of renewal in combat situations.

 

The only other thing that might help solve the issue is adding two more mod slots to the Warframes for more options in mod line-up.  But that's a whole other story...

If you're interested, check out this thread of mine. I made a suggestion on the mod system and warframe powers, and what DE could do to make it so our warframes are the most powerful tool at a Tenno's disposal, but won't become overpowered in the process.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297933-dedicated-ability-mod-slots/

 

Edit: Also if DE are going to keep the toggle on/off in, then at least compensate the power consumption by allowing the H.o.T to persist even after the player reaches full health, at least for the duration of the power. This alone would make it more viable in combat scenarios, since if a player reaches full health but then almost immediately takes damage to their health again, then renewal with be there to counter that some.

Edited August 30, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[Llyssa]

There's a wide consensus that "powers as described" and "powers as currently functioning" do not match. That would be a bug. In fact, there's an "oberon is bugged" megathread dedicated to it:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299632-oberons-ability-bugs-megathread/

 

Was called as such because the mods were consolidating so many bug report threads all about oberon. So yes, they are bugged.

[Reidmaster]

I agree, the toggle really needs to go, it is way too distracting and really doesn't make sense. (My only real complaint about the buff.)