I Heard That All The Big Alliances Fix The Dark Sector Fights And Do Favors For Each Other Behind The Scenes To Have Monopolies And High Taxes.

[Feallike]

I feel for you - but the ppl I use to play with have families and real jobs instead of have-half-of-the-day-nothing-to-do-school-time ;)) This argument is quite weak.

Are you old enough for this game? ;) You don't sound like over 18 howe... I will stop now, nvm.

 

I - as a person - have actually a lot allies (in several countries) and I have no clue why you think to qualify me as a representant?! Thanks for the election but I kindly reject :)

 

I have never facepalmed this hard so far in my Warframe career.... 

 

You 1. countered my argument by saying that people you play with (meaning you don't know some of them IRL) have families and jobs IRL so me using School, which takes from 7-12 hours a day is not a reliable excuse... ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

 

A job can range from 4 hours a day to 8, and families... just because you have one doesn't mean you automatically have no time to do anything.

 

You can have a family and never know it, and that isn't uncommon at all.

 

Then you attack my age... i can't even respond with a sentence that will explain how unoriginal that was....

 

I mean if your going to insult me please be original, you may be on that "high horse" of yours, but that doesn't mean us "peasants" can't pity you.

 

I also know people who have JOBS, and FAMILIES. They play once a week, so your excuse is pretty week. Hu?

[-VS-AtLasVegas]

I have never facepalmed this hard so far in my Warframe career.... 

 

You 1. countered my argument by saying that people you play with (meaning you don't know some of them IRL) have families and jobs IRL so me using School, which takes from 7-12 hours a day is not a reliable excuse... ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

 

You will understand me when you have a job and kids. It is useless to explain it to you now.

 

Don't take it in any offensive kind, but your whole post shows only how immature you still are^^.

[Farlander]

The dark sector system suffers from so many problems, the monopolies and the taxes are just a symptom, really.

Firstly, the system is set up very poorly. As someone already said, the game doesn't explain the dark sectors very well.

To most people who play, the dark sectors are, "farming zones." Probably nothing more. They are to me, and I know all about em.

 

And, as someone has also already said, Solar Rails are expensive. Very expensive.

Expensive to build, and very, very, very expensive to repair. I wouldn't want a rail. If someone gave me a rail, I would have it destroyed.

I really don't want a rail.

 

Obviously, the dark sector system is designed for clans, big clans, and it's designed under the assumption that people would ban together

in clans to play with the dark sector system. 

But, as some people already know, the warframe community hates joining big clans, or at least, most of us do.

Especially since dojos feature so much customization, who could resist the allure of having your own, shiny dojo to decorate and design?

Most people can't. I can't either.

This is why the vast majority of clans on warframe are ghost clans, probably with only one member each, mostly.

(Or if there are multiple members, those members are probably just alt accounts.)

 

So this entire system, designed for large groups, has become a very exclusive, very small community, because the devs miscalculated the way people in this game treat clans, and vastly overestimated how much we value "having our name in lights."

 

What do we Tenno value? We value credits, resources, mods, and platinum. (And mastery points! Don't forget those!) That's all, really.                         Most of us don't care to have our alliance name in lights, especially not when those lights come at such a high price tag. 

 

So how can we expect anything else but monopolies, when the group of people that actually care to own a solar rail is relatively small?

What the devs really need to do to fix the dark sector system is to open it up. Make it more easily accessible for the average Tenno.'

(And make it so we actually WANT to.)

One of the crucial balances in a system like these is the general playerbase. If an alliance starts charging an obscene amount of taxes, then the Tenno of the universe should be able to express their displeasure in a way that has an impact. (Yes, Ordis, that does imply violence.)

But the general population of players has very little value as a balance if most players don't actually care or know very much about the dark sector system. 

 

Another huge problem is the lack of battle-pay lately. Where has all the battle-pay gone? 

It's not hard to see why, if you think about it.

The invading alliance need only pay a finite amount of credits to win. There's a set number of wins that they would need to destroy the rail, so they just need to offer a better prize then their enemy, multiply that by X wins, and there you go.

But the defending side is not so lucky. The opposing side could be subjected to virtually limitless attacks, spanning virtually limitless rounds, because the attacking side suffers no penalty for losing. They get 12 hours of unadulterated time to attack the rail.

So what do the defenders get when they put up battle pay? They get a certain amount of the population to fight for them. (and not the enemy) for a brief period of time. Like tossing out breadcrumbs so the pigeons will leave you alone.  Here's the thing, though. What happens when an alliance puts up big battle pay to have their rail defended?

Everyone swarms. The pigeons eat all the breadcrumbs, and then fly right back. All that battle pay will be sucked up in a matter of minutes, and the alliance won't really see any benefit for it.

So defending alliances have stopped offering battle pay; probably a smart call.

And since defending alliances would have to be insane to offer battlepay, attacking alliances don't offer it either.

No reason to add incentive if the other side isn't going to.

 

So who wins these conflicts? The biggest alliance. No one is going to waste their time fighting for someone else's rail if they're not going to be paid.

This further shrinks the already microscopic portion of people who actually care about dark sector conflicts.

But members of the alliance involved in the conflict would certainly help.

And so, the winner of these conflicts is merely the alliance that has enough members so it can continue to fight for 12 hours straight.

It doesn't surprise me that we end up with monopolies with a system like this. It surprises me that it took until now for the system to be corrupted.

 

I won't pretend to know what the solution to this mess is, because I don't, but I think we all just need to realize that all of these things are just a reminder that Warframe is indeed still in beta, and the dark sector system is still a prototype.

Given time, I have confidence that the devs will set things right.

[WrathAscending]

I think there are a lot of factors leading to frustration over the Rail Conflicts.

 

For me my primary interest is in the bonus XP; I like to run Dark Sectors to re-level my equipment after using a Forma. Every player who is attempting to gain points towards Mastery likewise has an interest in Dark Sectors to rank up more quickly.

 

Credits are also useful- although experienced players have little issue with money, it is a bigger issue for newer players. Fusing mods is expensive; it will cost hundreds of thousands of credits to maximise mods like Serration or Vitality, so doing five-wave runs to gain tens of thousands of credits is the most effective investment of time. Especially since the other source of high credits, upper-tier Void runs, are made so much easier when you have heavily ranked mods. Crafting new weapons and buying blueprints is also an issue here.

 

Finally, there's the issue of mods. The more enemies you kill, the more mods will drop, and the greater the chance you have of getting ones with polarities you need- or just getting fusion cores or specific mods you're looking for. Enemies spawn in large numbers during Infested Defence missions, they come in large packs, and even if doing a short run you can still get 10+ mods pretty reliably, which is often a better result than running any other mission type.

 

Players not being able to run Dark Sectors during Conflicts- which may well coincide with the time they had available to play the game the most- is going to cause bad blood. Even with Dark Sectors available the game can be a bit of a grind, never mind what it can feel like without immediate tangible rewards like higher XP, more credits, and more mods.

 

There are solutions to each of those problems, but it would require some changes to the underlying mechanics of current Dark Sector conflicts.

[Feallike]

You will understand me when you have a job and kids. It is useless to explain it to you now.

 

Don't take it in any offensive kind, but your whole post shows only how immature you still are^^.

 

and i have found some humor so i will keep this going. :p

 

again you attack my age. (how unexpected i am sooo surprised)

 

then you say take no offense, then you insult me. LOGIC!!!

 

To be honest if i am immature then your cocky. :p I can agree on that, because your sure looove that high horse of yours. ^.^

 

I am just as immature as you are. :p If you where any more mature then me then you would had stopped replying to me. Though we have all seen how that ended up. ^.^

 

 

INB4 you say This post just confirmed to me that you are truely a child.

 

 

 

-thegianttext-

 

The system is by far flawed, and not worth the resources in the long run, i hope the DE does fix it in the future, since DS in a whole is just a place where Players  can get a break from the endless farming...

 

I do wonder if Darksectors get removed from the game, what will huge alliances like V/ICE do with all those lost resources, credits, and time they wasted on a flawed system. :p

[Cleesus]

Lets go ahead and stop the off topic arguments please.

[-VS-AtLasVegas]

It surprises me that it took until now for the system to be corrupted.

 

 

I actually can't agree on the point of corruption. A community that is driven by a contract of armistice is not corrupted. They only refuse to invade each others "land".  

[(PSN)Zdarkk1ller]

Does anyone know about ps4 problems

[Vastaren]

I actually can't agree on the point of corruption. A community that is driven by a contract of armistice is not corrupted. They only refuse to invade each others "land".

That implies they have a claim to sovereignty over the land itself. They don't.

I'm not disagreeing with you here yet, I haven't read up on everything, but I feel the need to point that our. Solar rails aren't federated nations who claim the land they adopted an identity over. Think of then rather as territories which have no civilian population or local government. It might be more applicable to consider the issue this way.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Vastaren

[SilentCircle]

I actually can't agree on the point of corruption. A community that is driven by a contract of armistice is not corrupted. They only refuse to invade each others "land".  

 

You'd have a point, if they weren't also attacking each other all the time.

Edited September 26, 2014 by SilentCircle

[JHarlequin]

 It happens in most games.  The people that want to be on top organize rather then work in their own alliance.  They may have alliances full of people, but it is a hell of a lot easier to have even more people that all support each other.

 

 It really isn't actually a bad thing until they abuse other players, and the taxes aren't too bad, as well as the funds and resources aren't really useful to the people playing.

 

 Should they be allowed to organize like this, probably not.  But it isn't so much that they shouldn't do it but that the system shouldn't allow it.  Perhaps DE could throw in something like if your alliance has a dark sector, then you are too busy holding it to support any other dark sector conflicts.  Then they would only be able to fight on their own and wouldn't be able to get support from other high end alliances.

 

 It would certainly cut back on what the top alliances could do for each other.  All they would be able to organize is not attacking each other.  Which is very different from getting support during conflicts.  If they couldn't support each other, then their rails would get taken down by players that recognize which groups raise their tax every time.

Edited September 6, 2014 by JHarlequin

[-VS-AtLasVegas]

You'd have point, if they weren't also attacking each other all the time.

 

I see this like following: 

 

You have the end of armistice and the start of the clickwar - > There are dozens of attackers trying to place a rail shown as X.

 

|| XXXXXXXYXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ||

And as you seen there are some Y among them. The X want to attack this node and place their own rail. The Y have a contract and want to protect their partners property (yes, as long as they maintain this node - it is their property; that's why there is their name and emblem on it).

 

All of them have exact same chances to place their rails. Everything is fair. Why do you feel like patronizing what the Y have to do with their rails, that they worked hard for? And why the X should have any benefits?

 

I think these are clearly the decisions of the attackers. You can analyze it as often as you wish - but keep in mind that everything is fair play so far.

Edited September 6, 2014 by -ExT-AtLasVegas

[Somedude1000]

No one is truly wrong here tbh, but solar rails we're meant to be endgame, and this sort of issue trivialises the process. Although a few battles on behalf of Space Confed previously were enjoyable, there is very little reason to actually enjoy solar rail battles atm, because nowadays its just get frame x spam ability y.

 

Battlepay is rarely offered, and when it is, it's all finished within an hour or so of play. So, the question is, how endgame is a battle mode that almost no one plays? Perhaps members of the alliance do, but the mere exstence of this thread will only ever further discourage participation of tenno in DS conflicts, regardless of positive intentions.

 

All is fair in love and war

 

"War is delightful to those who have never experienced it" - Desidarius Erasmus  

 

Are solar rail conflicts really battles? Or political sparring grounds? That is what this thread has been about so far, that the presence of this much politics, that the actual patrons can't even properly enjoy the benefits and bonuses offered by the rails without thinking about what goes on behind the scenes is strange indeed

 

So it has been desired, so, it shall remain, to be seen..., because the only difference between politics and war is, that there is hope when you go to war, but no hope in compromise when there is politics...

[ra9una]

...Politics. We're space ninjas, we should have only one political decree, when we see things that are alive, and not our kubrow, we make them not alive.

[Legion-Shields]

That really sucks. Maybe we should have people do something about it.

lol

[Legion-Shields]

Pretty much how I feel on the matter. If a bunch of alliances want to work together and do political shenanigans, let them. If they want to act scummy and make ludicrously high taxes, that's not DE's problem. It might be "exploiting" in some sense, but it isn't really the form of exploiting that warrants them to be punished or the system to be changed (such as if they were exploiting a bug, which is tantamount to cheating).

 

Seems to work well enough in EVE Online. I'm of the mind that DE should follow CCP's example when it comes to alliance/clan/solar rail politics.

 

If you guys are so upset by how some clans or alliances are conducting themselves, then do something about it. Band together to form an anti-corruption alliance and give the "shadow" alliance a run for its money.

shameless up vote.

[xkillo32]

who cares

i got 600k credits from the last conflict on sechura

[Evan-0-matic]

It would explain why no nodes have been giving Battle Pay for a while now :/

[Leland_Gaunt]

Who cares?

[-CM-Asmud]

It would explain why no nodes have been giving Battle Pay for a while now :/

They do, but very rarely. I wish they would do it regularly.

[MoonlightAngel]

greedy alway wins. Give up  on tenno race. Justice doesnt exist in warframe

Edited September 13, 2014 by MoonlightAngel

[Arabaxus]

No one is truly wrong here tbh, but solar rails we're meant to be endgame, and this sort of issue trivialises the process. Although a few battles on behalf of Space Confed previously were enjoyable, there is very little reason to actually enjoy solar rail battles atm, because nowadays its just get frame x spam ability y.

 

Battlepay is rarely offered, and when it is, it's all finished within an hour or so of play. So, the question is, how endgame is a battle mode that almost no one plays? Perhaps members of the alliance do, but the mere exstence of this thread will only ever further discourage participation of tenno in DS conflicts, regardless of positive intentions.

 

All is fair in love and war

 

"War is delightful to those who have never experienced it" - Desidarius Erasmus  

 

Are solar rail conflicts really battles? Or political sparring grounds? That is what this thread has been about so far, that the presence of this much politics, that the actual patrons can't even properly enjoy the benefits and bonuses offered by the rails without thinking about what goes on behind the scenes is strange indeed

 

So it has been desired, so, it shall remain, to be seen..., because the only difference between politics and war is, that there is hope when you go to war, but no hope in compromise when there is politics...

 

I hope you realize when we offer 100k Battlepay that goes away in 1 hour that means we basically handed out something along the lines of 50-150 million credits in the span of one hour.

[Toppien]

hopefully the warframe Illuminati doesn't hire stalker to get me for poking my nose where it doesn't belong. 

 

yet

[Alice-Proxy]

Am I the only one who ignores DS altogether? Void is much more interesting, imo

[Celle-Reveris]

Political shenanigans is seemingly what this system was designed for- y'all (hopefully) farmed credits successfully before DS's came around, so I'm not really seeing the issue here

¯\_(ツ)_/¯