Cover Mechanic Other Then Crouching

[Orimaarko]

This is honestly one of the stupidest things you could have said as well as one of the dumbest leaps of logic. Stealth is optional, stealth has nothing to do with being stuck to a wall and designing the game to stick you to walls at all. Did I mention polishing stealth is nothing at all like introducing a sticky cover system?

 

Did you read my edit?  Apparently I misused the term sicky cover. But can't edit the title of the post. 

[DSMK2]

I think a wall walk like button combination could be used to activate usage of cover: i.e. crouch+jump attaches the player to a viable wall. To "unstick" just move away or execute a roll.

 

I wonder how that would work in practice, especially in firefights.

 

Did you read my edit?  Apparently I misused the term sicky cover. But can't edit the title of the post. 

 

You can edit the title of the post in the full editor.

[Tetsmeha]

Then why feature stealth mechanics?  We'll call it hard cover then, and a hard cover system would improve stealth play imo.  I'll be sure to go put it into the pinned stealth post.  It's the option I want, so if I want to solo stealth a mission I can.  Then if I join a team in online play, I go balls to walls with the rest of them, and never think about entering cover.  Additionally, a "hard cover" option would be an excellent addition for snipers on defense maps, allowing them to take cover while reloading from a perch.

 

Just a few ways a cover system could be utilized by a player without interfering with the fast pace play style of others. 

 

No one's ever addressed it, but a great way to include a new sticky/hard cover system while keeping the original is having states of alert.

 

Starting any mission besides defense would put you in the stealth state,where players can take sticky covers, and use stealthy movement that would otherwise be detrimental in the current gameplay style. This gives players the choice of whether to go guns blazing from the start, and go into normal gameplay. Or actually play stealthy with game mechanics that support stealth (eg. hard cover on walls so you can peek corners without revealing position)

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Just like the title says.  Not sure if its been suggested before but I think gameplay would be improved with a cover system similar to Mass Effect or Gears of War.  I think sticky cover could help improve stealth gameply as well, allowing a way to easily peek around corners, and track enemies.

P.S.

Love the mod system, love the crafting system since items do not have too many individual components, with very easy to understand recipes.  Love mission select.  Overall great game.

 

EDIT:

 Let me clarify what I mean by sticky cover.  I wouldn't want a change to movement, such as pressing the dash button, running into a wall and getting stuck there.  I would want the ability to press my back to the wall at my discretion, toggling myself in and out of cover.  Not an automated feature, such as Gears of War, which would create a negative impact on mobilty imoa.  So i suppose my original comparison to GOW wasn't the best.  I'd rather have it more like Splinter Cell, strictly as a player option.  Hope this helps.

I disagree. I want less reasons to take cover, so as to make melee combat a viable option. If I wanted to play a generic cover shooter, I'd boot up Mass Effect 3.

[Orimaarko]

I disagree. I want less reasons to take cover, so as to make melee combat a viable option. If I wanted to play a generic cover shooter, I'd boot up Mass Effect 3.

 

Ok, so if a cover mechanic existed, you'd have to use it?  I'm asking for the option, to give me and the other players more variety and fleixbilty during gameplay.  If you favor melee combat, then use melee combat.  Your warframe has a gun, but you could go a whole mission without using it, does that mean the game should no longer have guns?

[Kilic]

I understand what this guy is trying to suggest and I support it. More variety and options can really help this game from going stale really quickly. The developers should consider adding this kind of mechanic into the game and if they want to encourage fast paced gameplay, appropriate rewards and incentives should be in place to do that, but it shouldn't be forced upon us.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Kilic

[Mikawo]

I can understand not wanting an automated "sticky cover". That would disrupt mobility like many people have said.

 

But would something like an activated cover system be that bad? People who want to use it can. People who don't want to use it don't have to. If you're worried that the players who use it would slow you down, then you shouldn't be. That's a problem of different playstyles. That antagonistic relationship between players based on mission clearing speed already exists and would hardly be agitated by a cover system because the players who are likely to use it are already the ones who play at a slower pace.

[ValhaHazred]

As long as no-one hiding behind a box complains as I dash ahead killing everything in my path with flaming doom axes and toxic superpowers, I can support a cover system.

Anything to keep you out of my damn way (jk :P)

[StrikeXII]

I think it would be fine as long as the key combination does not impede those who prefer guns/swords blazing/flashing. I personally like to try to go stealthy at the start but with the options we have it is very difficult to get very far, but I believe I read they plan to expand on stealth anyways. Optional is nice, required is not.

[neKroMancer]

Nope, as a ME3 veteran (500 hours+) I still don't use cover in MP mode. If you play ME3MP long enough, you're going to stick with right hand advantage and soft cover more than the actual hard cover mechanic. It's faster, more versatile than the actual cover mechanic provided in the game.

 

As far as I can see, cover mechanic is good with stealth play but not really suitable with the rest of the game. 

 

DE are going to expand that area of the game anyway. I'm not really worry about it.

[PaperAlien]

Aside from the "one button to rule them all" in mass effect 3 , sticky cover was the next most annoying mechanic.

 

Actually, it was the most annoying mechanic BECAUSE of the omnibutton.

Nope, as a ME3 veteran (500 hours+) I still don't use cover in MP mode. If you play ME3MP long enough, you're going to stick with right hand advantage and soft cover more than the actual hard cover mechanic. It's faster, more versatile than the actual cover mechanic provided in the game.

 

As far as I can see, cover mechanic is good with stealth play but not really suitable with the rest of the game. 

 

DE are going to expand that area of the game anyway. I'm not really worry about it.

Same here (might have something to do with krogan warlord being my favourite character :P). Although this game actually lacks right-hand advantage, the ability to crouch already makes up for it enough, and you don't really need a cover mechanic for stealth either, crouch already does it, as well as third-person camera allowing you to lok around corners already.

 

All the same, I would support a cover mechanic only if it's completely optional, does not share the same keybinding as sprint/roll OR interact/use. And maybe if you can overcover grab like in ME3.

[Tetsmeha]

Add two states of Alert and include more prevalent stealth mechanics and controls in the first one including sticky/hard cover and keep the alerted state as the current warframe.

[Ambience]

It's a grand idea to have a cover system, cover system should be optional. Just like stealth play is optional. Just like using vitality or Redirection is optional. More options allow more freedom, and MORE play-styles, thus resulting in a less generic feel. It might even make SOME people fight more than rush since it brings an interesting aspect to combat. 

 

I vote for an OPTIONAL cover system, so if anyone don't like it then they wont have to play that way.

 

+1

[auxy]

It's a grand idea to have a cover system, cover system should be optional. Just like stealth play is optional. Just like using vitality or Redirection is optional. More options allow more freedom, and MORE play-styles, thus resulting in a less generic feel. It might even make SOME people fight more than rush since it brings an interesting aspect to combat. 

 

I vote for an OPTIONAL cover system, so if anyone don't like it then they wont have to play that way.

 

+1

Hear hear! Where is the vanguard voting for player choice? That is the name of the game, after all. (Well, the name of the game is WARFRAME, but you know what I mean. I hope.)

 

A nice soft-sticky cover system could be handy for sniping. I can't tell you how often I've wished I could easily pop out of my cover and loose a charged PARIS shaft, and while crouching behind a convenient chest-high railing, sure! However, the movement makes that a little more awkward with vertical cover.

 

A +1 to you sir!

[BunnymanSV]

Good to know. Sadly it's also probably a deal breaker for me. I much prefer the tactical options afforded by sticky cover. Its why I didn't play Army of Two much and will probably mean I'll spend my money elsewhere. I see it as "Why have a third person shooter without the key game play element that separates FPS from TPS. "

Thx for the info.

So you think that a cover system "defines" a TPS ? and you think crouching with a surface to your back it the end all and be all of "tactical options" ? Hmmm...

Maybe you have not heard of a phrase call TACTICAL withdrawal

as for army of two... That game is just aweful...

if you define an entire game base on one mechanic then you are a very narrow minded gamer.

this is a head on action game not a cower behind a box game

Now I would have to agree that the steaith element would be easier to achieve if there were a cover system  but I don't think it break the game not having one. 

 

I guess in short if you are not good at the game because you can't to hide the entire time then why bother.

if you ever played the multiplayer you would probably just hide the whole time soak up the xp and let your squad to all the work for you.

I swear people are even getting to lazy to play video games anymore.

[Inez]

There is an optional cover system, I use it all the time when my shields are depleted.

 

You guys kinda missed the whole point of the game: ;instead of being a bad &#! marine taking cover all the time (like every other game) you're even more bad &#!.  What's more bad &#! than a space marine?  Space ninjas!  And we're so bad &#! we don't need silly things like sticky cover.  Instead we focus on offensive moves (slide attacks, jump attacks and warframe powers).  Defensive moves are for wimps.  Unless you're Rhino.
 

Edited April 20, 2013 by Inez

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Ok, so if a cover mechanic existed, you'd have to use it?  I'm asking for the option, to give me and the other players more variety and fleixbilty during gameplay.  If you favor melee combat, then use melee combat.  Your warframe has a gun, but you could go a whole mission without using it, does that mean the game should no longer have guns?

If a cover mechanic exists, there has to be a good reason to use it. Enemy DPS has to be balanced so as to make it an attractive option.

 

If enemy DPS is balanced such that staying in cover is attractive, charging into melee is not attractive.

 

Do you see the problem? I mean, we even have examples from this game - remember when they massively buffed enemy DPS, turning high level systems into rhino-annihilating meatgrinders that required you to stick to cover like glue? Before they undid those changes, getting into melee was practically impossible.

[Seraphim2t]

I would like to say that cover in the game is lacking. However, I would not add sticky cover . It would effect the game style to drastically  in my personally opinion ( and mine is not that expensive). I would however add it to a unique warframe itself. This would allow a player who perfers this to use it. You can pass it off by saying that the other warframes where modified for more frontal assult and this one was modified for more scouting or something rather :)

[11.11.11]

I don't think we need sticky cover here. In fact I"m completely against it.

 

What I do think we need are better crouch animations. My frames look like they've lost their spines. 

[Venarge]

So whenever i try to wall run or jump over something, I would accidently go into cover... Other than that, you would have to create another button you would have to use to go into cover, and for a fast paced game, we already have enough buttons and combos....

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Sert]

I think a lot of you are missing the point of the game, just because the majority of missions involve running through as fast as you can with no regard to the environment doesn't mean the developers haven't gone through painstaking steps to implement a STEALTH system.  Lets not forget all the lazer gates and CAMERAS that are in the game.  As well as the fact that enemies DETECT you if you're too obvious.  Oh and how about the instant stealth kill system.

 

So hiding behind cover isn't some cowardly tactic, it's strategic.  Having more options while behind cover would be nice.  Like being able to look around the bend because I don't have enemy radar to see where my target is would be nice.  A cover system can privide that.  I would like to see an entire mission go by without a single detection by the enemy, but atm that's nearly impossible.  I'm glad this is on the developers minds and that they're working to improve the whole stealth system in general.  Being able to push one more button for cover isn't very hard, maybe you're working from a controller stand point where you have limited options, but for us MMO/RTS/PC gamers adding one more button to the ~11 i regularly use is no big deal what so ever.  That's one less than a full hotkey bar in World of Warcraft, and I used 4 x 12 with almost all being a destinctive key bind.

[Orimaarko]

So you think that a cover system "defines" a TPS ? and you think crouching with a surface to your back it the end all and be all of "tactical options" ? Hmmm...

Maybe you have not heard of a phrase call TACTICAL withdrawal

as for army of two... That game is just aweful...

if you define an entire game base on one mechanic then you are a very narrow minded gamer.

this is a head on action game not a cower behind a box game

Now I would have to agree that the steaith element would be easier to achieve if there were a cover system  but I don't think it break the game not having one. 

 

I guess in short if you are not good at the game because you can't to hide the entire time then why bother.

if you ever played the multiplayer you would probably just hide the whole time soak up the xp and let your squad to all the work for you.

I swear people are even getting to lazy to play video games anymore.

 

Lol what?  Since when is taking cover lazy?  Who said I was bad at the game?  Who said it's the end all be all of tactical options?  There are so many things wrong with you're reply.  It would be ONE option that would open many tactical features, especially for stealth play.

 

Replies like this indicate YOUR narrow-mindedness, in your own inability to see that the game has fast paced shooter elements AND stealth mechancis.  According to the devs, Warframes are space ninjas, which implies stealth and action.  Why are there so many replies on this thread that indicate "this game is ONLY a fast paced action game" and that imply "the devs don't want anything but fast paced action"

 

I watched Q & A as suggested by a previous reply.  The devs said improving stealth play is a huge priority, in addition to keeping the fast paced action already apart of the game.  I hate to burst the bubbles of the "Fast paced ONLY" players out there, but I imagine stealth play will slow the game down considerably once it's fully implemented.

And an optional cover system would go towards improving that play style drastically, imo.

[Ambience]

If a cover mechanic exists, there has to be a good reason to use it. Enemy DPS has to be balanced so as to make it an attractive option.

 

If enemy DPS is balanced such that staying in cover is attractive, charging into melee is not attractive.

 

Do you see the problem? I mean, we even have examples from this game - remember when they massively buffed enemy DPS, turning high level systems into rhino-annihilating meatgrinders that required you to stick to cover like glue? Before they undid those changes, getting into melee was practically impossible.

 

Your right and your wrong. A DPS buff MIGHT be needed for some situations, but the whole point is to bring a new combat immersion. Then again its optional, and if you really want it challenging then you remove Vitality and Redirection. Besides that, you can't hide behind a cover forever, enemys do move up and spawn behind to flank you.

 

Some people will use Redirection and/or Vitality with cover system to make it easy mode, and others wont. Everyone has a skill level and preference of play-style so its unlikely any MAJOR DPS changes would be needed.

 

Like stealth, its optional and if someone likes that play-style they play that way. Everyone should have a right to their style of gaming and this will only improve that.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Ambience