Oriviagene Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 really OP you just need the right arsenal to handle infested easily :| they're not really hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Abuse? Please, it's a legit build. Still a bug, they should fix it. I suppose the old one was too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fracture8 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) really OP you just need the right arsenal to handle infested easily :| they're not really hard I like to think I had a decent build for what I just ran Vauban: Redirection + Vigor. Built for efficient, long-lasting, ranged Vortexes. 480 hp and 700 and something shields. Phage: Punch through. Heat/Corrosive/Viral build -Background levelling secondary at the time- Serro: Gas/Elec status build Running Eris in those really cramped hallways along with toxic osprey gas, and a stupid abundance of toxic crawlers hammered by HP down in the first minute. I'd like to think I'm not terrible at playing Warframe having done so for over a year. But when you kick so much @$$ with melee, and all you get in reward is death fart after death fart in your face theres a problem. Edited October 1, 2014 by KilelrDrone492 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fracture8 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 The Infested are a great example of irony. They're not all that challenging, honestly. But they can be UNFAIR and use CHEAP, PUNISHING mechanics that should never have been implemented in the first place, or should have been balanced by giving the players REAL tools to counter them other than slapping on bandaid mods or running around like headless chickens (maybe a more elaborate parkour would help?) hoping to "dodge" enough poison/hooks to survive more than 3 seconds. A game where half the enemy's attacks have no real counter under player control (other than running away or pressing 4) has serious design flaws. There are really difficult games out there, but a lot of them are also awesome because they give the players tools to avoid or counter this difficulty with EXPERIENCE, they make the players feel like they really learn, get better and accomplish great things. The Infested, no Warframe as a whole, is not among them unfortunately. Maybe it will get there with some more time and tweaks, but right now, it mostly uses cheap and dirty tricks to make us believe this game is hard. And what makes me really sad is that so many players actually fall for that, and really believe Warframe is actually "challenging". Wake up people, for Lotus' sake.^^' Another irony is that we still come back for more despite all that. I think because we see the huge potential behind the flaws, and also Warframe has that atmosphere, that something we get addicted to.^^ Also (before people who disagree go ballistic on this post) that's just MY opinion, nothing more, it's only based on MY personal experience, it's not "THE TRUTH!" or "FACTS!", just one opinion. Just saying,^^ This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. A shame I couldn't have highlighted it better in the original post. Dirty, artificial difficulty is exactly whats plaguing the infested right now. I needs to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derpo Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. A shame I couldn't have highlighted it better in the original post. Dirty, artificial difficulty is exactly whats plaguing the infested right now. I needs to change The infested can be made more interesting, but the following are cheap and un-fun: - Grappling hooks (ridiculously illogical, disables player agency) - ALL field effects. (WTF? I lose energy or health just because that things in the VICINITY??) - Poison (Unstoppable damage...even the US military provides gas masks) - Death damage (give me a break - killing that piece of bunny poo kills me, too?) Please consider putting major posts in http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/. Nothing is ever deleted from there. Edited October 1, 2014 by Derpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I used to play infested a lot (old xini ftw) because they we're fun, but now I try to stay away because they are not hard they are infuriating. All lame tactics does not =fun imo. I will cherish the good old xini days for ever though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Summary of the OP: Fart clouds are game breaking. Healers nullify damage. Grappling hooks suck. 1) Fart clouds can be a big issue. It's one thing if it hurts shields, but being able to nullify shields and restrict movement can be game breaking. Fart clouds are fine if done sparingly. 2) Healers' DR should not stack, and it should not affect other healers. Target priority is fine if it is done correctly. 3) Grappling hooks are needed. Making them more easily dodged is ok though. If you're running full sprint and perpendicular to an ancient, you should not get grappled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska-boo Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) With one thing I'll agree completely here - energy leeching auras should go. I'm still at the point where lots of players don't have their potatoed lvl 30 boltor prime just yet and rely a lot on their powers. This ridiculousness completely screws them over. Apply energy burn as an attack modifier, if you want it that much, but emptying your mana pool just by being there some 43928473247 meters away and at such insane rate is too much. Edited October 1, 2014 by Ska-boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derpo Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Summary of the OP: Fart clouds are game breaking. Healers nullify damage. Grappling hooks suck. 1) Fart clouds can be a big issue. It's one thing if it hurts shields, but being able to nullify shields and restrict movement can be game breaking. Fart clouds are fine if done sparingly. 2) Healers' DR should not stack, and it should not affect other healers. Target priority is fine if it is done correctly. 3) Grappling hooks are needed. Making them more easily dodged is ok though. If you're running full sprint and perpendicular to an ancient, you should not get grappled. I respect your opinion, this is only asking for clarification: Why are grappling hooks needed? ---------- Please consider putting major posts in http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuzzelMuzzel Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Bullet point list of fixes that may help: - Put a charge time of 3 seconds on the Toxic Crawlers cloud spawning after death, also give them distinct audio AND visual warnings before release (maybe a glowing effect or something?) - Put a charge time of 3 seconds on the Toxic Ancients fart attack, also give them distinct audio AND visual warnings before release - Osprey charge time increased to 2 seconds, give them the same visual effect as the Toxic Crawler before charging - Ancient Healers DR does not stack - Give Venomous Eximi either a range nerf on the poison effect or a complete overhaul on how the toxic aura is applied to players (on sight perhaps?) - Ancient Grapples are given a 2 second charge time before release along with distinct audio AND visual warnings. Range nerf may need to be applied as well. this are good ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostSwordsman Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I suppose this is why I don't find players running Pluto Dark Sector Hieracon ... I'm fine with the buffs... Now if they would have regular 'Disruptor' type enemies in the void to strip shield and energy as regularly as the infested... I'm just glad they didn't decide to give Ancient Eximus AoE Slash Procs... Or the whole of Eris for that matter.(save for xini, but I don't like fighting infested in defense missions, too boring) And that's a whole 15 levels lower in difficulty. I mean, DE finally put the infested back on the map, but nobody plays the new missions or tile set because the infested just seem too powerful at times. I love fighting infested, nice change of pace and easy to go sword alone against them, but I don't find it fun to have to try and survive by myself. It would help if others would play on that planet. Also, it shouldn't be impossible to fight them if I choose to take an un-maxed weapon in against them especially without a team, but this isn't the case right now. Overall, I agree that the infested need to be stronger, but the way it's been implemented is not right. As mentioned above, stacking auras (especially those healers) need to stop, and the over-abundance, I dare say, of energy leeching needs to go as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prany Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) How about retooling ancients' auras in to abilities? Ancient healers links with limited number of light infested surrounding them. There should be limit on how many infested can link (Maybie dependant on healer's level? Who said only health and damage can scale with level?) and link can be recast only when all linked light infested are dead or out of link's reach. No linking with other ancients. Link of course is clearly visible like Trin's so players can properly decide what is what and what to do. Toxic ancients buff limited number of light infested with benefits their aura gives now and one addition: after death their corpses wait a second and release small toxic cloud. Cloud is small enough to not damage defense objective if buffed infested is killed right next to it. Buff and toxic cloud could last five seconds and timer is shared (aka if infested has been buffed for three seconds, cloud will last for two seconds) and ancient could recast buff only every ten seconds. Ancient disruptors channel their aura. They need to stand still (in some sort casting animation I guess) and can be interrupted by staggers, knockdowns and any other type of disruption. When channeling they periodically release pulse that increase radius of their aura (it should start as rather small), disrupts us and has a chance (Again, maybie smaller at lower levels and increasing with level. Hard cap at some point ofc) to dispel debuffs on allied infested and buffs on us. Disruption should not drain our energy. Edited October 1, 2014 by Prany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleesus Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 ---------- Please consider putting major posts in http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/. Please stop spamming that reddit link, if you want to use and post on reddit that's fine but it's no reason to spam the link here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7.T. Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) IMO, I'd just like to have a faction I can go melee only against without using radial disarm (Grineer). I loved the old, no-flying-baddies infested. Yeah, you can kill the flying dudes with melee but it can really difficult depending on your weapon and that's not even taking into consideration other variables such as an Ancient Healer being nearby or w/e. Don't mind other changes as much as the Mutalist Osprey but other things do need adjusting. Side note: Now that I think about it... the balloons and helions are fine but, the Grineer better not get more flying dudes.... Edited October 1, 2014 by 7.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I respect your opinion, this is only asking for clarification: Why are grappling hooks needed? ---------- Please consider putting major posts in http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/. Infestation are strictly melee and poison based. You could literally stand on a crate and survive for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Grappling hooks can be avoided by movement. They seem to work like the hooks of Grineer Scorpions in that they shoot out fast with slight compensation for your direction, moving fast perpendicular (sprint), sliding or jumping around generally make them miss. Since the hooks are fast you need to pre-emptively dodge them, you don’t really have the time to react when they are fired. If they DO grab you: as soon as you regain control do a slide melee attack away from them (i.e. copter away from them) and you should get avoid getting hit. Their follow up attack will hit where you end up after being hooked so if you get out of reach you won't get hit. If you play Excalibur and have super jump equipped that can also be used as well as Zephyrs tail wind (go straight up or you risk getting stuck on a mob). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Bob_Dole478 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 +1 for "fart cloud" usage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Veg1ta Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ah those nasty toxins annoying ppl who refuse to use anti toxins n health pods, lol just come prepared youll be fine, in fact just bring oberon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derpo Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Please stop spamming that reddit link, if you want to use and post on reddit that's fine but it's no reason to spam the link here. Why do you care if I post a link to reddit? Anyway, it's not as if you just deleted a bunch of my posts or anything like that =P Anyway theclinton, taking it to tells. I'd ask you to quote the rule against mentioning other forums, but it doesn't seem relevant to the thread. Which, by the way, is about infested using kind of cheat-ish tactics, especially at higher levels. Edited October 2, 2014 by Derpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magarthryx Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 one enemy with a commend grab was too much an enemy with a commend grab that dragged you to em? too much this mechanic needs counter play or to be toned down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinker Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) You can dodge the follow up attack on ancients... ATTACK and he doesn't hit you, or move towards him/behind him. Do you even demon souls? All of this poison... Might actually consider using poison resistance mods to fight heavy infested. I wouldn't call it challenging, but it's a little engaging / interesting at least. Edited October 2, 2014 by Stinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fracture8 Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ah those nasty toxins annoying ppl who refuse to use anti toxins n health pods, lol just come prepared youll be fine, in fact just bring oberon. And kill frame/build variety? No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyril1204 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) -snip- Agree that they are overkill now, especially the toxic unit. It's almost next to impossible meleeing them Edited October 2, 2014 by cyril1204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semshol Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Answer to everything: - Bring a Vauban Your problems have been solved. You are welcome. Salvation is nigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fracture8 Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Answer to everything: - Bring a Vauban I like to think I had a decent build for what I just ran Vauban: Redirection + Vigor. Built for efficient, long-lasting, ranged Vortexes. 480 hp and 700 and something shields. Phage: Punch through. Heat/Corrosive/Viral build -Background levelling secondary at the time- Serro: Gas/Elec status build Running Eris in those really cramped hallways along with toxic osprey gas, and a stupid abundance of toxic crawlers hammered by HP down in the first minute. I'd like to think I'm not terrible at playing Warframe having done so for over a year. But when you kick so much @$$ with melee, and all you get in reward is death fart after death fart in your face theres a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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