Abenoki Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 This stream has renewed my faith in the game. As usual, DE has shown they know what's up. proof or it didnt happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Cartographer Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I just run exterminates. I gain nothing but enjoyment from them.How do I enjoy this? I hail from the era where DOOM, Quake, Half-life, Duke Nukem 3D etc. They didn't exactly provide me with grinding, just things to shoot and maps to progress through. It's why I enjoy exterminates and sabotages in Warframe. I only wish all exterminates provided at least 100 guys across at least 20 tiles, as opposed to thirty-forty Grineer with all of them jam packed into a single tile.The problem with people whining about void drop tables is that they're viewing the void as the end game, and threaten to quit if the RNG doesn't improve. However, ironically, give them everything they want... and they quit because there's nothing left to grind for.The wrong crowd is largely playing *MMOs, period. Specifically, the crowd looking for a credit roll point (typically the end of the grind.) *I know Warframe isn't an MMO, but because it has a loot grind, like an MMO, same idea applies. Edited October 3, 2014 by Littleman88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Still don't understand how so many can be against speed, You will simply be able to explore, see and do more things rather than spending your whole weekend on one mission. You have a choice tho - Leave the mission or simply get the mods and learn to copter. Or are you saying you cant ? Edited October 4, 2014 by R3pin3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunamaniac Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I groaned. This means the game is just a grindfest with no lasting enjoyed after obtaining everything, just more of the same. End-game NEEDS to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSp33d Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) If you think "endgame" means the end of the game then you don't really understand what endgame actually means. Endgame means less of trying to lay out carpet while you're walking and asking you to wait while they get a new carpet. It means more of a carpet leading you to a giant room to party in while you wait for more carpets leading to new rooms. The studio Carbine coined the term Eldergame which makes it easier to visualize if you're, for some reason, taking the "end" in endgame too literally. If you're content with just mindlessly grinding in new environments then I guess you can be excited. Edited October 4, 2014 by SolidSp33d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 If you think "endgame" means the end of the game then you don't really understand what endgame actually means. Endgame means less of trying to lay out carpet while you're walking and asking you to wait while they get a new carpet. It means more of a carpet leading you to a giant room to party in while you wait for more carpets leading to new rooms. The studio Carbine coined the term Eldergame which makes it easier to visually if you're, for some reason, taking the "end" in endgame too literally. If you're content with just mindlessly grinding in new environments then I guess you can be excited. Replay value to put it simply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSp33d Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Replay value to put it simply. In a nutshell. Replay value found in intricate systems and areas of gameplay, and you're usually lead up to it by some initial content to ease you into the complexity found in the game. Edited October 4, 2014 by SolidSp33d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) i dont like ends to stuff, especialy games. with no endgame, the game has unlimited growing potential Isn't WoW a prime example of how End-game works ? Its a repeatable circle feed by more end-game content, more farm able for gear. That it self is something every game developers should learn from, It works in RPG games but not so much Online. Just look at games such as Battlefield or even Counter Strike, where it more focused on the player... To take it even further, just look at Deus-Ex or Half-Life, Those had story to follow, and with WF that could only stop whenever the devs want it to. And that could be as long as they self want it to be, with a smooth combination of play styles and setups conquering new planets and enemies with one hell of a epic fight to defeat its master. Plain simple of example of how to persevere the fun of the game itself. Edited October 4, 2014 by R3pin3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazeth Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I completely agree with More-Game > End-Game. This game is basically a sandbox, in a sense, so increasing the replay value will benefit this game immensely. I just hope that DE doesn't somehow mess it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinkaza Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 I am a WoW Vet of ten years+. End game is all we thougt about. I just want more now, and I see the possiblities are near endless as we are at the beginning. Please do not think that I am bashing end game content. I would just like to bring down the need to have it layed out for us. The future of gaming is choice and creativity. If this is embraced then a game can go on and on. Can you not see that end game is just too small of a concept? It is a limiter. Endgame is the end. It is either the end of the game completely or it is the end of a phase of developement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnProdman Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 i wonder how many here, included the OP, has any idea of what "endgame" means... It seems like next to nobody in this thread knows that the purpose of 'endgame' is replayability and extensive content to avoid the 'brick wall' that many players are currently hitting. Endgame is content to keep players enjoying the game and sticking around without running out of things to do - it isn't the end of the game. *facepalm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I am a WoW Vet of ten years+. End game is all we thougt about. I just want more now, and I see the possiblities are near endless as we are at the beginning. Please do not think that I am bashing end game content. I would just like to bring down the need to have it layed out for us. The future of gaming is choice and creativity. If this is embraced then a game can go on and on. Can you not see that end game is just too small of a concept? It is a limiter. Endgame is the end. It is either the end of the game completely or it is the end of a phase of developement. oh my, Then we fall back to why on earth this is a online game. You want to be in a raid and kill bosses you got wow for that. If games has ends or not the most important thing is tho have people enjoying it. Having it based on farming is not a general good idea for that. First of all you need to find where the fun is before going into how the game should be. And if you haven't seen how this game is Now in its current state. Then you might want to go and play wow again, because that's exactly the direction this game is taking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 For the record, Enhance it all with adding a new war frame PANDA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.ToastForPresident Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 More things to do, less things to finish, to put it simply. More things to do eh? Sort of like Rooster Teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I was almost dumbfounded when Scott said this. I stood up from my chair and applauded to an empty room. Thank you Scott! I like endgame, but endgame has an inherent sense of Game's End. We are playing through the "Big Bang" of the Warframe Universe. We, as players, are particles fussing together to create the history in this game. Very rarely do we have the chance to be at the forefront for the creative process. Developers say, " Here is the game go play", but we are seeing more and more that that is not enough. The creative need in every person can be harnessed to make this a game that you not only play, but take pride in being a part of. Think of Minecraft. The limits of that game are only based on your ability to use the tools you are given. As DE opens this up to more and more player created content the idea of Endgame will slip from peoples lips, and the only words will be "What is the next adventure?". So I say yes to More-Game, and less about Endgame. Yes to the adventure, and no to elitists mentality of a game is only meant to be rushed, conquered, and then thrown away. Thank Scott. You have nailed the take home message ... 1+ It is obvious that Steve and Scott love to disagree but not on the point of "endgame" The difference between them seems to be that Steve struggles with "closure", perhaps because that is a familiar formula - one that is practically an industry gold standard Hopefully, the community will rally behind this to foster creativity that will produce engaging content and break DE of their procrastination which originates over unanswerable existential questions like "what is the endgame?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) (edited) ... Player created content (ie weapon skins, maps, and maybe a game mode or two) is not a suitable replacement for endgame. Don't compare this game to Minecraft. In Warfarm, there is no equivalent to wandering off down another mine shaft to see what awaits, even though you initially started the day meaning to build a farm, before getting sidetracked by a mysterious cave. Attempting to use Minecraft's lack of an endgame to justify Warframes is laughable. Steve has likened it to Diablo, which very much so has an endgame. Warframe NEEDS an endgame if it has any hope of retaining vets, something every developer should want. That's because you have failed to understand what endgame is, because it's most certainly not an endless grind. A game with literally endless adventure lacks focus, because it spreads itself out too much. Nothing will ever stick out in your mind, because there's only so many types fetch quests or exterminations you can do before they lose their appeal. Additionaly, by having an adventure around every corner, you lose any sense of progression, something this game is sorely lacking in to begin with. Games need to have focus and depth, lest they just became an ankle deep puddle the size of a lake. Just because you have lots of stuff to do, doesn't mean people will fill motivated to do it. Gamers need a goal to work towards and a reason to play beyond just shooting things, even in games like Minecraft (part of the reason the Ender Dragon was introduced). If the rewards are nice, but the gameplay is not, people will leave once they have what they want. You make a number of crucial points ... First, I agree that adding new items in game does nothing in of itself to retain veteran players Second, even players who participate in the forums - which is a minority of all who play the game - are divided on what they want to DE to do to keep their interest Therefore, I agree that to leave replay value in the hands of the community is not workable What I see as the crucial point of the Devstream is that Steve and Scott are making headway in figuring out what replay content would consist of Consequently, the main thrust of this thread - which was to call attention to this subtle change of dynamic between Steve and Scott - does serve the interests of the game and the community at large Warframe is a giant test tube at the moment with many steps and constituents awaiting proper placement In reading the posts of this thread I see the beginning of a rally on the part of the community behind DE that they are willing to be patient for this issue to be worked out I agree with you that there is a fundamental difference in the motivation for playing Minecraft and Warframe So much so that I don't play Minecraft at all ... I would rather physically build something or write my own gaming mod than "garden" like Minecraft would have you do For myself, I play Warframe as an FPS but with the expectation that it is fundamentally an adventure RPG where a good story/stories will eventually be told The challenging part is that the narrative format of Warframe remains ambiguous as the bigger project of having players choosing story direction and yet still providing enough directed content for there to be some shared experience Consequently, I agree with your closing remarks completely ... for me the "endgame" is a story that new revelations unfold about the Warframe universe, punctuated with engaging and pithy side stories that give this time and place texture and interest Edited October 4, 2014 by ElHefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 As of now it looks more of a money maker than what games is actually made for. Hope people understand the different of games that they made to make money and games that's made for enjoyment. The trail blizzard left behind is so clearly and fact that this game does the same scares me. I hope for DE's sake that they'll do the right thing. Creating a "Pay To Win" based game on farming is epic fail... Hiding behind the trading section, does nobody see how that's not going to work ? What do you think will happen when everybody is trading for platinum? somebody has to buy it in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Creating a "Pay To Win" based game on farming is epic fail... It never ceases to amaze me when people say this game is pay to win, or that DE is just going for a cash grab. Are we not even paying attention at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) It never ceases to amaze me when people say this game is pay to win, or that DE is just going for a cash grab. Are we not even paying attention at all? Did you ? How is the economy in this game going work when the only possible way to obtain platinum is to buy it with real cash and then spent in the trading channel? What will then happen when everybody is going to trade Prime gear for currency that's only obtainable through real money? This isn't rocket science.. Edited October 4, 2014 by R3pin3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.No.Hikari Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 As of now it looks more of a money maker than what games is actually made for. Hope people understand the different of games that they made to make money and games that's made for enjoyment. The trail blizzard left behind is so clearly and fact that this game does the same scares me. I hope for DE's sake that they'll do the right thing. Creating a "Pay To Win" based game on farming is epic fail... Hiding behind the trading section, does nobody see how that's not going to work ? What do you think will happen when everybody is trading for platinum? somebody has to buy it in the first place... I kinda want what he's smoking........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Endgame for me used to be playing with a bunch of buds, goofing off and overall nonsense :D Now they've all left and I've become a grumpy, cynical guy because hours and hours of playing the same game alone in a dark room does that to you. I enjoy the game on occasion now, but at times it feels kinda unfun to be playing the same few things over and over. There's a "perfect build" or endgame build for so many things, and don't get to slot for the lolz things like heavy impact because on solo, every slot counts, and you have to have very specific capabilities with each of your items if you decide to complete a difficult mission. Find some friends you say? Perhaps. But I''d rather not pretend to enjoy being with them simply to play missions more easily. We don't really need endgame if we have things to do at some point. And if those things arent repetitive, then we enjoy them. Variety> endgame ey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinkaza Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 oh my, Then we fall back to why on earth this is a online game. You want to be in a raid and kill bosses you got wow for that. If games has ends or not the most important thing is tho have people enjoying it. Having it based on farming is not a general good idea for that. First of all you need to find where the fun is before going into how the game should be. And if you haven't seen how this game is Now in its current state. Then you might want to go and play wow again, because that's exactly the direction this game is taking... My point in bringing my time is WoW is not that i want that type of content in WF, but that this could be a chance for a game to be more than the percieved "endgame". I see very clearly were the fun is as i am still playing, and have finally gotten a few of my friends to see it too. We all enjoy this game I hope, and all I am asking you to do is see beyond the constrants of terms like endgame and see them for what they are, a limiter on the possiblities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Did you ? How is the economy in this game going work when the only possible way to obtain platinum is to buy it with real cash and then spent in the trading channel? What will then happen when everybody is going to trade Prime gear for currency that's only obtainable through real money? This isn't rocket science.. Wait...are you being serious right now? How would a market like that work? I'm guessing the same way the market is working now, which seems to be doing just fine. Not to mention, nobody is forcing you to trade for plat. You can trade other stuff just as easily. This isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeXyo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I kinda want what he's smoking........ That's a path you don't want to choose if you had anything behind your eyes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.No.Hikari Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Wait...are you being serious right now? How would a market like that work? I'm guessing the same way the market is working now, which seems to be doing just fine. Not to mention, nobody is forcing you to trade for plat. You can trade other stuff just as easily. This isn't rocket science. Conspiracy Loki got to him. Its sad when all a newbie sees is P2W where there isn't any. I myself farmed for most everything and have only gotten prime access for the avatars nd accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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