De Can Our Forma Be Returned As Legendary Forma(Does Not Make Your Lvl 0)

[Jinryusai]

Lol you keep throwing around numbers with no evidence to back it up and who said a minority cant be treated as well as a majority.

He speaks out the his behind so don't mind him :)

[Jinryusai]

People do not go to forums to express their love every two seconds either, they play the game instead. People with something to complain about and are not playing will be here. And when they are not heard, they will multiply the same threads over and over. So one person can seem to represent many. But then again, nobody has numbers so neither of you are qualified to speak on behalf of others.

 

A big point of this game is to level up stuff to acquire new stuff to level. If you did not enjoy that time, then maybe the problem lies elsewhere. - So are a bunch of new 20 or so warframes being added?

 

When a gun gets nerfed nobody begging for disproportionate compensation will be taken seriously. Why now should it be any different? - So are all Warframes getting "nerfed"?

 

Despite everything positive this new change will bring, some of you are trying very hard to make the little downside a bigger deal than it is. Classic tempest in a teapot. - Hypothetically speaking, can you imagine having to rank up all your weapons and warframes all over again due to a major change if one should cause everything to go back to rank 0? That is how they feel. Having to start the process over especially after losing that extra slot perhaps critical to their build. You must understand how they feel and their situation before you post. You should perhaps examine warframes with forma all over it to understand them. If you did, you perhaps would not have made these negative posts...

You, whom have polarized nothing(if indeed so), don't really grasp the situation and understand these people.

 

I however have not polarized any warframes, but I do get it...

Edited October 19, 2014 by Jinryusai

[Jinryusai]

Actually every update the game grows, and really only a Tiny tiny tiny % of the audience will actually care about this. The other % will just use the forma they got back to forma their new 2 slots.

 

The Forums is about 10% of the community and even then its only 5% of them who are complaining.

 

 

Also yes that's free stuff, anything the DE gives out without the need to farm for it. Is free stuff.

 

It actually loses money for them to do this. So again they are just being nice to their community with giving back forma.

This "free stuff" you speak of is a dime a dozen and drops like candy. You are simply out of touch here. You also make it seem like the devs want to "screw" people out of their hard work for more money.

 

That Tiny %(if indeed so) would continue to be vocal about this and be that voice for the voiceless who can't speak up or are afraid to(while there are those whom simply refuse to, that's another story). Less people may speak up overtime but others shall continue to speak up for them and continue to shed light n this, others shall continue to support them including the ones that may have stopped speaking up do so every now and then because they still care. They may also upvote every thread as well.

 

This vocalness, this issue shall never go away because there are those who shall flat out refuse to repolarize anything or they may polarize one or two things, but still demand compensation. Whether they are the vocal minority or not, they shall be the loudest and never shut up until they get what they want so in the end, the dev team  must make a decision would would likely adhere to them. hat is what they do, listen to the vocal minority which is why this forum exists.

 

And they you include the design council in your calculation, there are plenty there that agree with this Legendary Forma and though the minority, have way more influence(perhaps) then the entire community. They are also the voice for the voiceless, so take the power of influence into considers. Your calculations, any calculations, mean nothing when influence is concerned. 

 

Who knows, there maybe that vocal minority on the dev team that agrees with this Legendary Forma, and they may have even more influence. Can the dev team really "put there foot down" when mayhaps their own may also agree the the dev team even be divided on this?

 

Which side shall win, you guys, are the Legendary Forma guys? Everyone shall soon see. After All, none may end up winning after all, you all shall soon see.

[Feallike]

This "free stuff" you speak of is a dime a dozen and drops like candy. You are simply out of touch here. You also make it seem like the devs want to "screw" people out of their hard work for more money.

 

That Tiny %(if indeed so) would continue to be vocal about this and be that voice for the voiceless who can't speak up or are afraid to(while there are those whom simply refuse to, that's another story). Less people may speak up overtime but others shall continue to speak up for them and continue to shed light n this, others shall continue to support them including the ones that may have stopped speaking up do so every now and then because they still care. They may also upvote every thread as well.

 

This vocalness, this issue shall never go away because there are those who shall flat out refuse to repolarize anything or they may polarize one or two things, but still demand compensation. Whether they are the vocal minority or not, they shall be the loudest and never shut up until they get what they want so in the end, the dev team  must make a decision would would likely adhere to them. hat is what they do, listen to the vocal minority which is why this forum exists.

 

And they you include the design council in your calculation, there are plenty there that agree with this Legendary Forma and though the minority, have way more influence(perhaps) then the entire community. They are also the voice for the voiceless, so take the power of influence into considers. Your calculations, any calculations, mean nothing when influence is concerned. 

 

Who knows, there maybe that vocal minority on the dev team that agrees with this Legendary Forma, and they may have even more influence. Can the dev team really "put there foot down" when mayhaps their own may also agree the the dev team even be divided on this?

 

Which side shall win, you guys, are the Legendary Forma guys? Everyone shall soon see. After All, none may end up winning after all, you all shall soon see.

 

You don't understand at all.

 

Their are no sides, this is not a war. The DE decides what happens. If the CEO of the DE doesn't want Legendary formas released they won't release. The other DE staff can't do anything about it.

 

Everything Free that released goes through the CEO first, and he decides whether or not this would be profitable. If he/she feels that releasing Legendary Forma wouldn't help the team at all they won't release. No amount of whining and crying will change her/his mind.

 

I am just saying don't act like screaming at the DE for Legendary forma is going to get you what you want. Legendary cores was a huuuugggee donation from the DE since the average price for a max rare 10 mod is 200-500 (That's about 20-50 dollars) give that to a couple thousand- hundreds of thousands people and you donated 10 thousand - millions of dollars. 

 

Formas are about 20P, that's about 5 dollars without discounts, giving out 1-2 formas to 3 million people is the equivalent of the DE giving 3-6 Million dollars to their community. That is a big deal.

 

Legendary Formas are the equivalent of a forma and a Affinity booster. SO that's 40 plat. Again that's allot of money the DE is giving the community.

 

 

Edit: Before you talk about Legendary cores being worse then Legendary Formas, they where not. You can't trade 6 forma weapons but you can trade rank 10 mods so the DE did gain money from people buying plat then buying a Rank 10 mod someone used the Legendary core on.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Feallike

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

The forma they are refunding was either bought or crafted, i fail to see your point in this matter.

[Alphafox]

Formas are about 20P, that's about 5 dollars without discounts, giving out 1-2 formas to 3 million people is the equivalent of the DE giving 3-6 Million dollars to their community. That is a big deal.

 

Dude, stop right there. DE doesn't lose any money by giving forma, catalyst,reactors etc. I hope you realize that a forma factory doesn't exist. They won't lose a penny. It's just codes and numbers.

 

That's not how things work..

Edited October 19, 2014 by Alphafox

[Feallike]

Dude, stop right there. DE doesn't lose any money by giving forma, catalyst,reactors etc. I hope you realize that a forma factory doesn't exist. They won't lose a penny. It's just codes and numbers.

 

That's not how things work..

 

They lose possible formas that could had been brought. 

 

If X player was going to buy a forma, but DE gave them a forma X player probably won't buy a forma now so DE loses out on 20p.

[Theodorick]

People do not go to forums to express their love every two seconds either, they play the game instead. People with something to complain about and are not playing will be here. And when they are not heard, they will multiply the same threads over and over. So one person can seem to represent many. But then again, nobody has numbers so neither of you are qualified to speak on behalf of others.

 

A big point of this game is to level up stuff to acquire new stuff to level. If you did not enjoy that time, then maybe the problem lies elsewhere. - So are a bunch of new 20 or so warframes being added? 

 

When a gun gets nerfed nobody begging for disproportionate compensation will be taken seriously. Why now should it be any different? - So are all Warframes getting "nerfed"?

 

Despite everything positive this new change will bring, some of you are trying very hard to make the little downside a bigger deal than it is. Classic tempest in a teapot. - Hypothetically speaking, can you imagine having to rank up all your weapons and warframes all over again due to a major change if one should cause everything to go back to rank 0? That is how they feel. Having to start the process over especially after losing that extra slot perhaps critical to their build. You must understand how they feel and their situation before you post. You should perhaps examine warframes with forma all over it to understand them. If you did, you perhaps would not have made these negative posts...

 

You, whom have polarized nothing(if indeed so), don't really grasp the situation and understand these people.

 

I however have not polarized any warframes, but I do get it...

 

A big point of this game is to level up stuff to acquire new stuff to level. If you did not enjoy that time, then maybe the problem lies elsewhere. - So are a bunch of new 20 or so warframes being added?

This addition of more content has nothing to do with my point. This game is about leveling and releveling. If you do not enjoy it, begging for shortcuts is not the way.

 

When a gun gets nerfed nobody begging for disproportionate compensation will be taken seriously. Why now should it be any different? - So are all Warframes getting "nerfed"?

Exactly! So why now a compensation then? It's not even being nerfed. When weapons get nerfed or when Warframes are being tweaked, people also "lost" time working on them and putting forma to suit the "meta" of that time. Things change and people move on. This is no different.

 

Despite everything positive this new change will bring, some of you are trying very hard to make the little downside a bigger deal than it is. Classic tempest in a teapot. - Hypothetically speaking, can you imagine having to rank up all your weapons and warframes all over again due to a major change if one should cause everything to go back to rank 0? That is how they feel. Having to start the process over especially after losing that extra slot perhaps critical to their build. You must understand how they feel and their situation before you post. You should perhaps examine warframes with forma all over it to understand them. If you did, you perhaps would not have made these negative posts...

Hypothetically speaking serves nothing. I could go on with hypothesis all day and imagine a bunch of scenarios to suit my argumentation here. Lets talk about the problem at hand, which does not affect weapons to start with and only partially affect Warframes.

 

You, whom have polarized nothing(if indeed so), don't really grasp the situation and understand these people.

In this very thread, I have said the exact opposite. Go read again instead of making false assumptions about me to suits your point. I do have plenty of experience about spending time in game leveling, releveling Warframes and weapons.

[Jinryusai]

You don't understand at all.

 

Their are no sides, this is not a war. The DE decides what happens. If the CEO of the DE doesn't want Legendary formas released they won't release. The other DE staff can't do anything about it. - You missed the point...

 

Everything Free that released goes through the CEO first, and he decides whether or not this would be profitable. If he/she feels that releasing Legendary Forma wouldn't help the team at all they won't release. No amount of whining and crying will change her/his mind. - You act as if there are no sides to a debate and the CEO simply does whatever he wants ignoring both sides.

 

I am just saying don't act like screaming at the DE for Legendary forma is going to get you what you want. Legendary cores was a huuuugggee donation from the DE since the average price for a max rare 10 mod is 200-500 (That's about 20-50 dollars) give that to a couple thousand- hundreds of thousands people and you donated 10 thousand - millions of dollars. 

 

Formas are about 20P, that's about 5 dollars without discounts, giving out 1-2 formas to 3 million people is the equivalent of the DE giving 3-6 Million dollars to their community. That is a big deal.

 

Legendary Formas are the equivalent of a forma and a Affinity booster. SO that's 40 plat. Again that's allot of money the DE is giving the community. 

 

 

Edit: Before you talk about Legendary cores being worse then Legendary Formas, they where not. You can't trade 6 forma weapons but you can trade rank 10 mods so the DE did gain money from people buying plat then buying a Rank 10 mod someone used the Legendary core on.

You don't understand anything...

 

- Reciprocity in social psychology refers to responding to a positive action with another positive action, rewarding kind actions. As a social construct, reciprocity means that in response to friendly actions, people are frequently much nicer and much more cooperative than predicted by the self-interest model; conversely, in response to hostile actions they are frequently much more nasty and even brutal. The dev team would be wise to take this to heart, less they want the worse to happen. Not that they have to give legendary cores, but good gestures go along way and simply giving out foma from what you can see does not please the community, only those that use little forma.

 

You make a big deal out of losses, but you refuse to take in consideration people's reluctance to buy when they are angry or upset or annoyed. Considering they may have tons of forma or simply don't want to pay up, they shall simply quit or farm for more, even those that have plenty shall be discouraged to buy plat.

 

There are those that shall be vocal and still pay up and those that do not. But no one can tell which is the minority.

 

They don't have to give legendary forma, but they would be wise to adhere to reciprocity, the positive effects can yield more cash flow and make up for any potential lost revenue.

 

And when the tenno are happy, the dev team is happy and raking in more cash flow(if possible), when the Tenno are sour, dev team is sour and future cash flow shall remain in question...

 

Think about that...

 

And also think about "Respect" being an important factor as well.

 

I shall not take no sides and remain objective. Whatever the dev team does, they should at least try to make it meaningful. Regular forma or forma at all might not cut it given the animosity.

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

I didn't just throw Formae on those slots, I also threw 30 levels of deliberate @$$-kicking behind them.

I deeg mang. Tru DAT!

Edited October 19, 2014 by (PS4)PoeticProdigal

[Jinryusai]

In this very thread, I have said the exact opposite. Go read again instead of making false assumptions about me to suits your point. I do have plenty of experience about spending time in game leveling, releveling Warframes and weapons.

You still do not understand them and use false logic such as leveling being part of the game and using nerf to suit your point. All those examples are irrelevant and have nothing to do so much work being rendered meaningless, having to do it all over again with no gains, having all your hard work destroyed and have to repair it. Nerfs may do this to an extent, but are not nearly as damaging as this change and that is why people here scream legendary forma.

 

So try to understand them.

 

And in a game about leveling, would you accept having to level things again for nothing?

[Eldnacpeek]

I read the title. I already second this. +11111111111111111

[Theodorick]

You still do not understand them and use false logic such as leveling being part of the game and using nerf to suit your point. All those examples are irrelevant and have nothing to do so much work being rendered meaningless, having to do it all over again with no gains, having all your hard work destroyed and have to repair it. Nerfs may do this to an extent, but are not nearly as damaging as this change and that is why people here scream legendary forma.

 

So try to understand them.

 

And in a game about leveling, would you accept having to level things again for nothing?

Yet another false assumption. Now, that you can't use the argument that I have never used forma against me, I suddenly do not understand how it works? That's Rich. How's the temperature up there in that Ivory Tower of yours?

 

False logic? What are you even talking about here? Both cases are quite relevant to one another. Considering I am making a comparison with lost time.

 

Leveling things again for nothing? Well if it's for nothing why do it? It's never for nothing, and it won't be for nothing after the update either because the build composition is going to be different now. Abilities are not taking up space anymore. And a bunch of new mods with unknown polarities and mod cost are coming. Abilities will not be taking up mod points either. Abilities polarity are removed - You will not lose mod points for putting the wrong polarity in an ability slot anymore - This will change the amount of forma required per build. This is the most important point. You may not even need to use as many forma, because you will not have to swap that ability polarity.

 

You you all jumping the gun because you think all the rules will be the same. Not the case. I am not saying you will never need to forma again, but that it may not be as bad as you would like us to believe.

 

Finally, I like how you completely ignored everything else I replied to you in that post and tried to label me as ignorant in the matter. When you can't attack the message itself you attack the messenger. Cute.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Theodorick

[Jinryusai]

Yet another false assumption. Now, that you can't use the argument that I have never used forma against me, I suddenly do not understand how it works? That's Rich. How's the temperature up there in that Ivory Tower of yours?

 

- And where does it say you do not understand how it works? Putting words in my mouth are you?

 

False logic? What are you even talking about here? Both cases are quite relevant to one another. Considering I am making a comparison with lost time.

 

- They are irrelevant. Just because the game is about leveling does not mean you should enjoy having to redo the work you have done getting back to that point or close you were at and nerf does not erase what you have done.

 

Leveling things again for nothing? Well if it's for nothing why do it? It's never for nothing, and it won't be for nothing after the update either because the build composition is going to be different now. Abilities are not taking up space anymore. And a bunch of new mods with unknown polarities and mod cost are coming. Abilities will not be taking up mod points either. Abilities polarity are removed - You will not lose mod points for putting the wrong polarity in an ability slot anymore - This will change the amount of forma required per build. This is the most important point. You may not even need to use as many forma, because you will not have to swap that ability polarity. 

 

- Leveling things again, to get back to the same point you were before, meaning no gains. All depends on the polarized power slots.

 

You you all jumping the gun because you think all the rules will be the same. Not the case. I am not saying you will never need to forma again, but that it may not be as bad as you would like us to believe.

 

 - That all depends on who you talk to...

 

Finally, I like how you completely ignored everything else I replied to you in that post and tried to label me as ignorant in the matter. When you can't attack the message itself you attack the messenger. Cute.

 

- Don't feel like quoting everything you said so it's all jammed up into that one paragraph.

[Clovis15]

I don't think you're understanding just how expensive some of those cards are, especially those level 10 D-Polarity cards. Some of us, myself specifically being a prime example, are looking with abject horror at the loss of those vital D-Polarities that we added. Not everyone added polarities for corrupted cards, I instead added three D-polarities to my Vauban - whom doesn't use a single corrupted card ever - in order for all of the relevant defense cards to ever so barely fit alongside my Bastille build*. Maybe you haven't seriously played a Vauban before, but a level 30 Vauban without a nice suite of defense cards is just asking to die violently from little more than a passing glance. Fixing this isn't a simple two hour one-shot trip with friends to be finished in a single night, it's a maddening cycle of agony - complicated by annoying PUG wankers whom are always leaving at wave 5 every single time - and infinite dying from almost any source of miniscule damage. I put them in at great cost to my personal sanity, and therefore I am NOT BEING ENTITLED when I say that I want to keep them - the same as people who forma'ed different slots - without being told to gain additional suffer all over again.

 

* Corrupted cards are just bad for Bastille in general, since it uses reach - duration - and power all at the same time.

 

I never asked for something for nothing, I asked for the something that I already put in the time for. I don't care that my one ability build is now nerfed, I will deal with it and start doing different builds instead. All I ask for is to keep the polarities that I both worked and paid for. I didn't care when the Ogris was nerfed, I still had my polarities afterwards. I can still use it, and I don't have to revel it up to 5 polarities again. Now I certainly can't fire it as much as I used to, but I can still use it. Nerf the stats and I won't ever care (too much), yet reset my progress - unless it's a grand resetting like when Mods 2.0 hit, where everyone was hit equally - and then I will care.

 

This is not a grand resetting, it's a selective resetting.

[Kruglov]

I support this idea.

I really don't want to have to re-level Vauban or Loki since they are made of moist tissue paper and getting them to 30 is a bit of a slog.

 

One-time-use non-tradeable special forma would be the best solution.

It'd be the only time in history DE will need to issue such an item but it would certainly help this transition into a better mod system go much more smoothly with the most amount of happy players.

[CrystalRibbon]

If only the problem of some people here is releveling the warframe, why cant having an ability to reassign those forma ponts while keeping the warframe level intact a plausible solution? And keep raging for a "Legendary forma"?

[Clovis15]

To CrystalRibbon:

 

We're asking for a Legendary Forma precisely so that we can reassign those polarities while keeping the Warframe's level intact. We're not being entitled by asking for something evil, we're merely asking for the tool to do the very job that you actually do think is fair. Furthermore - coming from a programming background (B.S.: Computer Information Science) - it'd be the far easier of the two solutions to make a Forma with a level 0 reset exception, than it would be to build a special UI from scratch that will keep track of which polarities got whacked off - and from which Warframe - and will probably come with a ton of bugs in the process that'd need weeks of fixing as well.

 

This isn't about profit - it isn't about trying to game the system - it's about not releveling tissue paper warframes like the Vauban, or - worse yet - every single damn Warframe in your entire arsenal at once (if you're the type to max out everything). The problem has exceeded being plausibly fixed by an affinity booster, and worse punishes people unevenly. I am willing to play ball by their new build rules - which reduce min/max potentials for some players - so long as they don't also reset my time, while giving others more power and no time resets at all.

 

The effects of this are currently standing to be win/win for some (more slots, more abilities), and lose/lose for others (loss of build, loss of reveling progress). However, the existence of the Legendary Forma doesn't hurt those in the Win/Win crowd at all (those people whom were already using 2 or more abilities). Many of them are just upset because they've long hated the 1-Ability players, and are hoping to get a treasure trove of freebies while seeing those people not like them burned in the process for the sin of not being like-minded. It is fair that I ask to not be burned by having my progress not rolled back, despite the entitled sadistic demands of players playing the game differently than me whom are now asking for an ironic witch hunt, and ultimately the request additionally does nothing to jeopardize the new build rules that DE seeks to institute in the slightest (nor the game's economy, as Formas aren't tradeable).

[Alphafox]

To CrystalRibbon:

 

We're asking for a Legendary Forma precisely so that we can reassign those polarities while keeping the Warframe's level intact. We're not being entitled by asking for something evil, we're merely asking for the tool to do the very job that you actually do think is fair. Furthermore - coming from a programming background (B.S.: Computer Information Science) - it'd be the far easier of the two solutions to make a Forma with a level 0 reset exception, than it would be to build a special UI from scratch that will keep track of which polarities got whacked off - and from which Warframe - and will probably come with a ton of bugs in the process that'd need weeks of fixing as well.

 

This isn't about profit - it isn't about trying to game the system - it's about not releveling tissue paper warframes like the Vauban, or - worse yet - every single damn Warframe in your entire arsenal at once (if you're the type to max out everything). The problem has exceeded being plausibly fixed by an affinity booster, and worse punishes people unevenly. I am willing to play ball by their new build rules - which reduce min/max potentials for some players - so long as they don't also reset my time, while giving others more power and no time resets at all.

 

I hope people will understand after that post.

[(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo]

wait, so those of us that have formaed our ability slots have to relevel them? ridiculious...

i spent plat on affinity boosters sometimes after formaing those ability slots and now youre telling me that's gone to waste?

if that's the case, i support this.

Edited October 20, 2014 by (PS4)Alphapsykongaroo

[CrystalRibbon]

First off, you cant find anything regarding the so called legendary forma should do other than making it up.

.

Instead of asking for an item that, you could just ask for a system that would do the same for free since they're redoing the ability mod system,period.

Edited October 20, 2014 by CrystalRibbon

[-UW-Gwen]

Actually every update the game grows, and really only a Tiny tiny tiny % of the audience will actually care about this. The other % will just use the forma they got back to forma their new 2 slots.

 

The Forums is about 10% of the community and even then its only 5% of them who are complaining.

 

 

Also yes that's free stuff, anything the DE gives out without the need to farm for it. Is free stuff.

 

It actually loses money for them to do this. So again they are just being nice to their community with giving back forma.

Shamless, For free?, we're getting things we already own :P

[CrystalRibbon]

wait, so those of us that have formaed our ability slots have to relevel them? ridiculious...

i spent plat on affinity boosters sometimes after formaing those ability slots and now youre telling me that's gone to waste?

if that's the case, i support this.

 Has any of the devs announced that you have to relevel them precisely?

[DrThunder]

only takes like an hour or so to rank warframes up to max rank

if you have a lot of frames, an hour or 2 per frame could be a lot of work.

[Clovis15]

To DrThunder:

 

It's pointless to argue with these people. They want you to lose your time because to them you were one of the demons playing the game wrong, and thus the cause of all imbalance in the game. Having you lose your build isn't enough, they need you to lose your time also to compensate for all this imaginary damage you did in their mentally ill head. The devs letting you keep your time is inconvenient to their sense of warped happiness, as those formas would still give your more power than them in their new system that blocks single-ability builds (especially since most of the people simply don't forma, or support the game either). Although they can't prevent you from recreating that build afterwards, they secretly hope to run you off by stealing the time sunk into each of those polarities (because - despite what they claim through vile lies - they actually do realize the truth of what they ask for and know it actually is a lot of work). So afterwards only they - the only people here whom are truly thinking in an entitled way - would be left remaining, because they think that they're saviors of the game by running out the riffraff. After all, to them riffraff uses stat power. Meanwhile true gamers make use of pure skill alone, and you making using of polarity based additional stat power was preventing the game from ascending. 

 

The only way they accept you not losing your time is if the item had a name that said "Forma for Idiot who Played the Game Wrong". Only if the devs denigrated these heathens for them - making them feel bad for keeping the game for ascending - would they be happy enough at last. They have hated us, they have always hated us, and the world "Legendary" in the proposal - which was purely a reference to the Legendary Core - is their kryptonite as they can't stand to see what they perceive as an honor upon their foes in the time of their success against build freedom. The reality is that these people need to stop playing games - not just Warframe, but games in general - and seriously re-evaluate their lives right now, as they still already won either way... and yet can't be happy with that fact because it hasn't additionally come with a burn the village and rape the women Conan style bonus package as well. The Legendary core just preserves our time, the fact is we can no longer do one-ability builds anymore. But that's not enough for them, and that's why they're the true entitled brat children right now.

 

They know losing all this progress will make many leave - specifically the people ruining the game in their minds - and that's why they're opposing any and all fixes to this so vehemently, so don't let them lie to about their false claims - wherein they're actually protecting the game - when it's really just their childish demands to further cast ruin upon those whom were different from them (because winning isn't enough, if you can't denigrate the fallen afterwards).

Edited October 20, 2014 by Clovis15