Angstrum Reduces Ammo For Sniper/launcher Weapons

[-10no-GCoda]

You can exploit this feature, get a penta, and put +90% ammo mod a ammo mutation on angstrum, nice feature i think

[perfectStranger]

See it like this:
- you have half + half of the ammos thus the whole

- each half, even if both belonging to the sniper ammo type yet cannot be the very same ammo, eg angstrum missile won't fit as sniper bullet, nor the contrary, so instead of having 1 big pool you have 2 separate halves of it

this is the best explanation i can give to myself.

[Saint_of_Grey]

You can exploit this feature, get a penta, and put +90% ammo mod a ammo mutation on angstrum, nice feature i think

^This. This is what I've been doing. I haven't found pistol ammo mutation, so I just throw rifle ammo mutation on my penta. Not only does it hold 50% more ammo (due to the angstrum's ammo being 30), but I can save space on my angstrum configuration by not using an ammo mutation mod on it. This is very much an exploit if utilized correctly.

[dashashou]

not a bug just a feature le sigh 

 

Implying that Warframe and/or DE is inferior to other companies or products is not helpful in any way whatsoever.

 

your right one should never imply , they should point out specifics on where / what was failed , for example this design of shared ammo pools , and more than that no easy way to fix / adjust  via programming back doors  

 

this bug/design was a rookie mistake one that probably never should of been made in the first place , and should of been easily fixable in the second place and in the 3rd place if something will never be out of beta is still a beta? 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Ravel7

[Tails-san]

While launcher ammo is the ideal solution it does cause another issue in that it dilutes the ammo drops more, indirectly causing each other ammo drop to become rarer. Whether this is a major issue remains to be seen but its something to consider.

 

Plus, this would still have problems with equipping two launchers. 

 

Realistically, they should kick it up to 72 for all sniper-using weapons. It would still have negative consequences, but you'd have a LOT more wiggle room to work with.

 

We'd still have the problem of them drawing from the same pool, but I can definitely support this idea, especially with the Angstrum, for carpet bomb build purposes.

[vaugahn]

this bug/design was a rookie mistake one that probably never should of been made in the first place , and should of been easily fixable in the second place 

 

Just wondering, how do you know this? I don't think anyone here has seen the game code.

[yles9056]

 Exactly. You're right, Dhrekr.  It's an issue with the design, not the code (hence the move to feedback). It isn't a bug that can be fixed by adjusting some broken code. 

 

 

OK. This feature is not a bug, but it's not intended, either.

Will there be any plan to adjust it? It's really confusing.

Edited October 23, 2014 by yles9056

[mrecentric]

 Exactly. You're right, Dhrekr.  It's an issue with the design, not the code (hence the move to feedback). It isn't a bug that can be fixed by adjusting some broken code. 

 

 

A simple if : else check would fix it. As far as I'm concerned that means code.

[taiiat]

i patiently await rewriting the Ammunition Functions to remove & avoid overlapping variables in the future.

[dashashou]

Ravel7, on 23 Oct 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

this bug/design was a rookie mistake one that probably never should of been made in the first place , and should of been easily fixable in the second place 

Just wondering, how do you know this? I don't think anyone here has seen the game code.

 

simply put  one of the first rules of programming / painting is  don't paint / program your self into a corner  

 

and when a bug becomes a design flaw , that as corner as you can get 

[KittyDarkling]

I'm just going to clear something up for everyone:

 

 - No, this was not a mistake on DE's part.

 - No, this isn't something easily fixed

 - No this will not be fixed by a "simple if then" logical statement.

 

    Even without looking at the code, we can just look at the problem and understand it from playing the game. Since as long as I can remember, this game has had four ammo pools. To this day it still has four, and where this was fine way back when it was first implemented, The game's evolved beyond the point where this old system cane really support current weapons.

    Currently the most problem weapons stemming from this issues are the Angstrum and the Magical Freeze Ray (Forgot it's real name). Because with the current system we can't modify pick up rates beyond assigning them a number. An "If then statement" doesn't work here. There's no easy fix. The ammo system needs a complete overhaul just to fix these two weapons.

    If anything I see the fact that DE hasn't fixed this yet as a good thing. It means that they're actually going to fix it properly. So yeah, for now they're really inconvenient! But I expect an ammo overhaul will be developed, then DE has a great deal more freedom in the creation of high fire rate weapons.

Edited October 23, 2014 by KittyDarkling

[Jinryusai]

 Exactly. You're right, Dhrekr.  It's an issue with the design, not the code (hence the move to feedback). It isn't a bug that can be fixed by adjusting some broken code. 

Yet takes centuries to do so what must be done to do this and whats stopping them?

 

And why can't they simply find another solution such as a different ammo pool. Secondary using primary ammo pool does not make any sense.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Jinryusai

[Saint_of_Grey]

And why can't they simply find another solution such as a different ammo pool. Secondary using primary ammo pool does not make any sense.

 

I'm sure they've been avoiding it. Up until the change, every secondary in the game drew from the pistol ammo pool. A secondary using sniper ammo has never been in the game, and has never been programed for. When they realized what was happening with the angstum and castanas, (most likely before they released it, I doubt they missed it during testing) they saw that fixing it is going to be a massive headache. So they let it be.

 

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Moved to Weapon Feedback. Not a bug, but definitely an issue with the Angstrum. 

 

"Not a bug" probably means "the code is doing exactly what we told it to do - we understand why this effect happens, and there is nothing broken as far as the coding is concerned".

 

"Definitely an issue with the Ansgstrum" probably means "whoopsie-doopsie, we didn't think of that when we wrote the code - which, again, does exactly what it's supposed to do".

 

 Exactly. You're right, Dhrekr.  It's an issue with the design, not the code (hence the move to feedback). It isn't a bug that can be fixed by adjusting some broken code. 

 

I don't want to get bogged down in semantics.  In my understanding, logic errors are still bugs as it's an unintended effect of the code.  

 

That said, I wanted this to get some attention from DE, and my report/feedback has been seen and added to the "the list."  Y'all will fix it in due time.  It's not game breaking, and I can equip a different secondary while I have vectis equipped, or a different primary when I have Angstrum equipped (I've been going Tetra/Angstrum for almost the entirety of Gate Crash) so I already have a workaround in place, while others are exploiting this glitch/logic error/what-have-you.

 

Thanks for looking into this, DE. I look forward to having this fixed so I can carry my launcher in with my favorite rifle.

 

 

<snip>

As such you now have the max ammo allowed for your angstrum.  It doesn't get restored when you switch because both weapons draw from the same ammo pool.

 

To fix this DE needs to make it so that launchers don't use sniper ammo, but rather make it so that they use a special pool similar to how bows use arrow ammo.

Oh certainly, I understand the nature of this problem, but it's apparently more complex than I thought.  In my opinion, rifle/sniper/shotgun ammo should just be "Primary ammo" and pistol ammo should be "secondary ammo."  Then, when getting the respective pickups, the game will always put the proper ammo in the proper pool.  

 

This would change the balance of the game, however, because of the ammo mutate mods, and that's a can of worms that I won't even touch, even hypothetically.

 

In a proper beta this issue would have been put high on priority list and probably fixed within the first month after the first reports came in...

This does not contribute to the conversation in any way.

 

this bug/design was a rookie mistake one that probably never should of been made in the first place , and should of been easily fixable in the second place and in the 3rd place if something will never be out of beta is still a beta? 

1) "Rookie Mistake?" Maybe, but that's not your place to say.  Anyone could have made this mistake, regardless of how expierienced a programmer they are.

2) "Should have been easily fixable" based on which code you've seen?

3) It may still in Beta, but while it's in beta, it will likely always be free.  Why are you here trolling when you can go play something not in beta? 

I had already reported this a long time ago (August). Check this thread ----> https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290105-angstrum-lanka-issue/#entry3319727

 

And this from BrazilianJoe -------> https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290018-1421-weapon-ammo-rebalance-bug-lowest-max-ammo-is-used-for-all-wepons-using-that-ammo/

Good to know that this has already been reported.  Please bear in mind that I'm a PS4 user, so I'm an update or two behind you PC players :)

Edited October 24, 2014 by (PS4)IkariWarrior83

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

So, was this addressed at all by update 15?

[yles9056]

So, was this addressed at all by update 15?

 

Sadly, it's still there.

Edited November 21, 2014 by yles9056

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

LOL, well, crap.

[KittyDarkling]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If my suspicions are correct (I'm sure they are) DE cant fix this issue anymore then they can fix the freeze ray's crappy ammo economy until they completely overhaul the ammo engine.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If my suspicions are correct (I'm sure they are) DE cant fix this issue anymore then they can fix the freeze ray's crappy ammo economy until they completely overhaul the ammo engine.

Maybe by update 16 *crosses fingers*

 

It's less of an issue now that I have the Soma, but still, it's an irksome problem to have.

[Kungpaobeef]

This issue occurs with other primary/secondary combos, such as the Castanas and the Penta. In fact, if you had a primary weapon with a low ammo pool, this issue could be used to your advantage. For example, Castanas with a maxed out Trick Mag can give you a total ammo pool of 57, while Penta by default only has 20. You could essentially have almost 3 times the amount of ammo the default has with this niffy little trick, without having to add any ammo pool mods to your primary.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Oh certainly, there are ways to take advantage of this "feature," that were actually previously mentioned in this thread.  I'd like for it to be fixed/changed, though.  There's no strategic value in keeping that in.

 

They just haven't fixed it yet because they have bigger fish to fry or have to completely retool the ammo system.  I understand this.  I'm not upset by it.  I accept that it's a thing that happens and I can do literally nothing about it.  I patiently await their fixing it :)