Grineer Are Overbuffed

[Barhandar]

As of now, they have:

 

* Commanders stunning you for 3 seconds or so on teleport. This time, on Pluto, is enough for ANY Warframe to be downed. Switch is already disorienting enough without any forced crutches to add to the problems. The only thing this forced-stun gives is makes Commanders have "I WIN" button on high enough level.

 

* Eximus Rollers: small, hard to hit, enemies that stagger you on touch and now have auras making them able to knock everyone nearby down (Fire) or become absolutely immune to ranged weapons (Ice)!

 

* Drahk Handlers. Guys tougher than every other Grineer but Heavies, capable of becoming next-to-immune to damage by covering their face with handling-arm, and out-of-nothing summoning...

 

* Drahk. They're small, INCREDIBLY hard to hit, enemies that move unpredictably and fast and deal a lot of damage - essentially a child of unholy union of a Roller and Infested Charger.

 

* EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot. Now there's a chance, on knockdowns from Drahk Handlers, Scorpions, and possibly Heavies, to drop your weapon onto the ground. Marvelous, isn't it? And some things are perfectly capable of DELETING dropped weapon, leaving you without it for the duration of the mission! So far I've seen a person lose theirs in Valkyr ultimate.

 

EDIT 2:

 

* How could I forget. The AI in general had their aiming capabilities "buffed"... well, less buffed and more aimhack - Grineer will never miss you anymore.

 

* Grineer also have stupendously high status chance and Slash damage weapons... which makes them much, much better at killing everyone through shields than even Toxic Ancient Infested (even when you consider their extremely high-damage AoE attack which often downs anyone but a Rhino - because it's widely known that coming into melee range of Toxic Ancient is a very, very bad idea).

 

 

 

Could you PLEASE tone these down, and think a few steps ahead when you add things like these?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Barhandar

[Gigaus]

Don't forget that the Drahk Handlers steal whatever weapon you're holding if they hit you. And you have to run out to get it. As a result, you can end up with no weapons at all if you get hit multiple times. 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I think they are currently fine. Still waiting on the Corpus to get to the same enemy variety.

[ValhaHazred]

I agree the Commanders are trouble enough without the stun. Haven't gone against the Handlers yet.

[Barhandar]

Don't forget that the Drahk Handlers steal whatever weapon you're holding if they hit you. And you have to run out to get it. As a result, you can end up with no weapons at all if you get hit multiple times. 

Added. It's not only Handlers, I had my weapon drop on hit-and-pull by Scorpion.

 

I think they are currently fine. Still waiting on the Corpus to get to the same enemy variety.

It's not variety, it's completely ridiculously difficult 'features' that go with said 'variety'. If Grineer JUST had an enemy that can spawn Drahk at will and rarely spawns (like a Heavy or rarer), and had Eximus Rollers, it would be perfectly fine.

However, weapon knockout, arbitrary damage immunity on Handlers and Commanders stunning on switch push it all out of "varied enemy providing reasonably tough experience of fighting against" and smack dab into the middle of "absolutely needless frustration".

[SoulEchelon]

Don't forget that the Drahk Handlers steal whatever weapon you're holding if they hit you. And you have to run out to get it. As a result, you can end up with no weapons at all if you get hit multiple times. 

 

Yikes.

 

Haven't fought the new enemies yet, however I'm very interested to see how challenging they are. From the sounds of it, their weakness is Warframe abilities.

 

Commanders have always been kind of derp. Being able to instantly switch teleport players is indeed a bit overpowered. There needs to be some sort of warning. Perhaps an odd glow resonating from your warframe that signifies you're being targetted and if you don't find cover within maybe 1 second (gotta keep the challenge up guys), you get teleported.

 

As for Eximus Rollers, I don't think I've ever seen one of those...

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

It's not variety, it's completely ridiculously difficult 'features' that go with said 'variety'. If Grineer JUST had an enemy that can spawn Drahk at will and rarely spawns (like a Heavy or rarer), and had Eximus Rollers, it would be perfectly fine.

However, weapon knockout, arbitrary damage immunity on Handlers and Commanders stunning on switch push it all out of "varied enemy providing reasonably tough experience of fighting against" and smack dab into the middle of "absolutely needless frustration".

I simply don't agree with a lot of it. Been running a lot of invasions ~level 30 Grineer, just leveling frames and weapons. All of the enemies here except Dhrak were present, of course. I run these missions with no issues, I find a much more satisfying experience than killing Corpus.

I don't do endless defense and survival all too often against Grineer, so perhaps it's different for those modes.

[Barhandar]

Yikes.

 

Haven't fought the new enemies yet, however I'm very interested to see how challenging they are. From the sounds of it, their weakness is Warframe abilities.

 

Commanders have always been kind of derp. Being able to instantly switch teleport players is indeed a bit overpowered. There needs to be some sort of warning. Perhaps an odd glow resonating from your warframe that signifies you're being targetted and if you don't find cover within maybe 1 second (gotta keep the challenge up guys), you get teleported.

 

As for Eximus Rollers, I don't think I've ever seen one of those...

Energy Leech Eximi nearby. Oops, you have no access to abilities, and since discussed situation is weapon knockout, you have no weapons too! Good luck killing them with flying kicks alone!

Drahk Handlers do not come alone. They come in hordes of other Grineer.

 

I find your suggestion perfectly reasonable. Commanders definitely should have some sort of telegraphing their teleportation.

 

They don't get significant health increase so perhaps you've destroyed them without noticing with abilities, Sentinel, or Kubrow?

[saltshaker42]

Variety is the spice of life... until it pisses you off with cheap difficulty.

 

Knockdown is cancer, why add more, then add this extra variable that'll make more people mad?

[Barhandar]

I simply don't agree with a lot of it. Been running a lot of invasions ~level 30 Grineer, just leveling frames and weapons. All of the enemies here except Dhrak were present, of course. I run these missions with no issues, I find a much more satisfying experience than killing Corpus.

I don't do endless defense and survival all too often against Grineer, so perhaps it's different for those modes.

The problem starts to become noticeable when enemies become tough enough to not die in a few hits and can actually reach you. There's an extreme difficulty spike as a result, with one side being "reasonably tough gameplay" you've experienced, and the other "ha ha so you missed 100 millisecond window to evade or kill me, I'm going to knock you down AND knock your weapon out of your hands!"

 

Variety is the spice of life... until it &!$$es you off with cheap difficulty.

 

Knockdown is cancer, why add more, then add this extra variable that'll make more people mad?

I guess there are several different people responsible and they had communication issues, resulting in reasonable-by-themselves additions snowballing into hell of frustration. Like, one person thought that adding Drahk would be a good challenge (it would be if you remove their ability to shield with arm - they're already as tough as Heavies), the other person thought that knockdowns knocking your weapons out would be reasonable it isn't - Warframes are extremely sticky, what with weapons not getting knocked off from being just placed on their sides/backs, but combined it results in frustration for every player that encounters both.

 

P.S. If some enemy attacks are going to knock weapons out of your hands, please limit them to sophisticated Corpus/Orokin machinery, disrupting whatever makes the weapons stick to 'frames and thus making it possible in the first place to lose grip. Not just knockdown that is everywhere.

[DantX]

I simply don't agree with a lot of it. Been running a lot of invasions ~level 30 Grineer, just leveling frames and weapons. All of the enemies here except Dhrak were present, of course. I run these missions with no issues, I find a much more satisfying experience than killing Corpus.

I don't do endless defense and survival all too often against Grineer, so perhaps it's different for those modes.

 

I am sorry but this is completely absurd lvl 30 enemie doesn't even exist since most mr10 tenno are so strong they vaporised them without even thinking about it. against lvl 75+ grinner if you loose your wepon your are dead its an insta win for the grinner. "Knockdown is cancer, why add more, then add this extra variable that'll make more people mad" nuff said.

[Sasquatchias]

Personally I agree and disagree. 

 

While the Grineer are certainly annoying, and could admittedly use many tweaks to certain units (such as a way of knowing or dodging a Commander's Switch Teleport, or Bombards/Napalms being less ridiculous) I feel for the most part they are fine.

 

My biggest issue with the Grineer (and the most game-breaking) would be their accuracy. You could be down a hallway two rooms away and the average Grineer armed with a Grakata will still hit you with a majority of his clip. 

 

One thing I'd suggest for this is perhaps have more Grineer shots "miss" when players are moving around, so that there is more incentive to do acrobatic maneuvers and such.

 

Question is how could you code that?

[Barhandar]

Question is how could you code that?

In my experience it's already present, since if I stand in place I die MUCH faster than if I move around actively, therefore enemies must miss when I move, with same amount of bullets shot.

[ValhaHazred]

In my experience it's already present, since if I stand in place I die MUCH faster than if I move around actively, therefore enemies must miss when I move, with same amount of bullets shot.

 

They definitely do. What's going on is that they are programmed to aim at where you where a split second ago, so only the outside edge of their firing cone can hit you if you move around enough.

[EvilReFlex]

Got killed by a Grineer Sniper (lvl40) with to fast shots..  that was really stupid. 

 

Edit: Played with Ember Prime

Edited October 25, 2014 by EvilReFlex

[Ska-boo]

Yeah, I agree, m8s, this is absolutely terrible. First that eximus pish that leaves you without energy in seconds, then gas and now even weapon is not reliable. Seriously, what is the meaning of this, what are you doing: a video game or a butthurt simulator?

[Kruglov]

I think they are currently fine. Still waiting on the Corpus to get to the same enemy variety.

 

This.

It's weird that the Grineer have a million ways of buffeting us around and slapping our S#&$.

 

But the Corpus only really have those moas who fire bouncy discs or stomp the ground every once in a while.

[Kasumi-]

This.

It's weird that the Grineer have a million ways of buffeting us around and slapping our S#&$.

 

But the Corpus only really have those moas who fire bouncy discs or stomp the ground every once in a while.

I dislike how the Grineer have like 9001 enemy types yet the Corpus have a few variations of MOA/Drone and Crewman.

[ndantony]

I think they are currently fine. Still waiting on the Corpus to get to the same enemy variety.

Yup. Love the new update making the Grineer now more fun and with this sort of variety. Need also for Corpus and the Infested.

[Suthurn]

seems like grineer damage output is a bit high right now.

 

i was doing a level 20 mission with my maxed out nova and i had my shields+guardian 100% restore completely wiped out several times.

 

this never used to happen. i mean against level 20's i could almost just stand there and not care. 

 

while i am sure i can adjust to the things and i will be ok, i feel bad for new players without high ranked mods or a good mod selection. just GG, you die. 

 

 

edit- also not sure if its the accuracy buff in the notes, or a change to the proc rate, but i constantly had a bleed on me as well.

 

if i wasnt running rejuvenation aura i am fairly sure i would have bled out from bleed procs.

 

again, new players arent going to have that luxury...  i dont think making things impossible at mid-levels for new players is a good move personally. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Suthurn

[Azawarau]

The only issue i see here is the stun teleport and losing your weapon permanently

[VentiGlondi]

* Commanders stunning you for 3 seconds or so on teleport. This time, on Pluto, is enough for ANY Warframe to be downed. Switch is already disorienting enough without any forced crutches to add to the problems. The only thing this forced-stun gives is makes Commanders have "I WIN" button on high enough level.

Dont' forget that it's hitscan and targets you through solid objects.

[Yinkuji]

The bombard guys can be a bit overwhelming at times but overall I think this change was for the better. Any decent frame still facerolls them.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Yinkuji

[LeadToRise]

Oh, you have a boltor prime? let me take it out of your hands. YAY YOU CAN DO NOTHING NOW AND JUST DIE

[Sasquatchias]

Oh, you have a boltor prime? let me take it out of your hands. YAY YOU CAN DO NOTHING NOW AND JUST DIE

To be fair if you're using Boltor Prime you kinda deserve it.