Grineer Are Overbuffed

[K_Shiro]

DE has a tendency to think that negative effects that cripple you and you can't defend against are the way to raise challenge for players. I can't stress enough how wrong that is. A challenge is a situation where you have to perform better than average to overcome the hurdle. If no matter how good you are, your energy is taken, we can't speak of a challenge.  Same goes for taking a weapon (and bugging it), hurling you over with skorpion's hook, etc. or causing you bleeding without touching your shields. Disturbingly lazy ways to make a game harder. Not going to detail how to change them - did that in dozens of posts. Getting tired of it.

Edited October 28, 2014 by K_Shiro

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Ah yes, the Grineer, if they actually tried, could roflstomp everyone.

[Paradoxbomb]

Commanders definitely need some kind of overhaul to make them more commandery and not just a Lancer with an incredibly annoying and uncounterable gimmick. I haven't encountered the Eximus Roller squad, but I'm taking extra care not to get on Steel Meridian's bad side for that reason.

 

I haven't had too much trouble with Dhrak Masters though, but that could just be because they're busy bothering my teammates while I'm gunning them down from out of boomerang range. Dhraks themselves seem easy enough to avoid but I'll admit Kubrows in general seem to have really iffy hitboxes and animations, making actually hitting them feel really awkward.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I think they are currently fine. Still waiting on the Corpus to get to the same enemy variety.

So, your fine with the your weapons being deleted from the map...literally wasting your time....perfect syncing...so your whole squad is not only disarmed in 10 mins in survivals or defenses...but completely useless to continue to level anything past that time frame or stay...so whats the point of endless missions if you can't retrieve such weapon back from weapons falling through the floor and deleted off the map or even....THE UNRANKED WEAPON BUG....

 

So, your saying all this is working as intended....? haha.....almost cried for a second.

 

 

So, I guess farming and leveling is out of the question for grineer then...because these bugs are working as intended. Oh, guys dont try to go for any rare mods either (whisper) youll be disarmed and can't get your weapon back which means...your f'd because just wait for Mr. Shock Eximus (Dont forget the energy draining eximus too IE butcher, sniper, shield lancer *cough*) to lick your Energy Pool dry then wut? Melee em to death hopefully before you die and pick up your primary/secondary....ahem (if its there or its not UNRANKED).

Edited October 26, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[ValhaHazred]

Having fought multiple Dog Trainers now, I am not bothered. 

 

They have only managed to take my weapon once by surprise but since they usually send the Dogs ahead I got warning every other time.

 

The boomerang is pretty easy to avoid.

[GeneralSSK]

I less than thirty minutes from posting this had encountered a very serious bug regarding Drahk Masters. The throwing mace knocked away my Tiberon but when I had gone to recover it I could no longer pick it up and then had to fight Ruk with some Kunai. If these Drahk Masters are going to become as common as they are now, please make it so I can pick my weapons back up again... And this hasn't been the first time this has happened either.

[Gordyne]

I don't mind fast moving enemies, we are here to improve our aim too, it's something to make you evolve and feel rewarded.

 

However I absolutely loathe when games throw 100% chance stuns at us, or make extremely accurate enemies like warframe does.

 

A sniper grineer will ALWAYS hit me when i jump after a slide.

 

I'm like... roll-flying at 345678 mph and she manages to hit me with a sniper, c'mon...

 

I'm all for challenge but i hate cheap challenge.

[(PSN)Pharen]

As of now, they have:

 

* Commanders stunning you for 3 seconds or so on teleport. This time, on Pluto, is enough for ANY Warframe to be downed. Switch is already disorienting enough without any forced crutches to add to the problems. The only thing this forced-stun gives is makes Commanders have "I WIN" button on high enough level.

 

* Eximus Rollers: small, hard to hit, enemies that stagger you on touch and now have auras making them able to knock everyone nearby down (Fire) or become absolutely immune to ranged weapons (Ice)!

 

* Drahk Handlers. Guys tougher than every other Grineer but Heavies, capable of becoming next-to-immune to damage by covering their face with handling-arm, and out-of-nothing summoning...

 

* Drahk. They're small, INCREDIBLY hard to hit, enemies that move unpredictably and fast and deal a lot of damage - essentially a child of unholy union of a Roller and Infested Charger.

 

* EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot. Now there's a chance, on knockdowns from Drahk Handlers, Scorpions, and possibly Heavies, to drop your weapon onto the ground. Marvelous, isn't it? And some things are perfectly capable of DELETING dropped weapon, leaving you without it for the duration of the mission! So far I've seen a person lose theirs in Valkyr ultimate.

 

 

Could you PLEASE tone these down, and think a few steps ahead when you add things like these?

That commander stun is a pain. Not a problem in small groups, but in large numbers you become a pin cushion, especially if you're using a squishy frame that survives with speed, high damage and avoiding fire. Rollers should be only able to spawn as leech eximus. And as for stealing a weapon, the game should only allow one weapon to be taken per mission, and even then only if 3 weapons are equipped. The Drahk seem fine considering the wild kubrows are the same way.

[(PSN)Pharen]

I don't mind fast moving enemies, we are here to improve our aim too, it's something to make you evolve and feel rewarded.

 

However I absolutely loathe when games throw 100% chance stuns at us, or make extremely accurate enemies like warframe does.

 

A sniper grineer will ALWAYS hit me when i jump after a slide.

 

I'm like... roll-flying at 345678 mph and she manages to hit me with a sniper, c'mon...

 

I'm all for challenge but i hate cheap challenge.

They should give them the laser sight like Ven'kra Tel. Alot of people have been asking for this.

[Ariarch]

I don't like the Drahk Masters or the Commanders (For the reasons you stated), but I also believe the Corpus and Infested need to catch up variety and difficulty wise.

 

The Corpus are still missing many elements that the Grineer received months ago, and the Infested still lack ranged weaponry, and an actual "infested" feel, with differentiation from the melee units of the other factions.

[JapariBun]

I was trying to level up Ash on a Grineer level, but I kept getting one shotted by a Ballista. The only way I've been able to level my weapons effectively from unranked is to use a Rhino and stand there. Even then, in some situations, I can barely do that because the stupid Drahk Masters just delete the weapon I'm trying to level. It's gotten very bad. I used Iron Skin, but then got teleported by a Commander. A few level 20 Lancers and a Ballista nearly killed me, even though I have level 8 redirection, level 7 vitality, level 6 blind rage, and max intensify. I mean, come on! They were only level 20 lancers. At higher levels, the Scorpion's drag is so long and uninterruptable that it's safe to just abort mission when you get grabbed. Also, the Grustrag Three have every right to be hard, but if they're going to cripple your Warframe, they shouldn't be able to one shot three people with a single hek shot. The Hellions are also very dumb, as they can knock you down and kill you with missiles before you get back up, and if you're losing melee, then you have no chance of killing a flying Hellion. Grineer Napalms are also very strong. If you are downed by one, you are usually doused in napalm and unable to be revived.

[K_Shiro]

I don't mind fast moving enemies, we are here to improve our aim too, it's something to make you evolve and feel rewarded.

 

However I absolutely loathe when games throw 100% chance stuns at us, or make extremely accurate enemies like warframe does.

 

A sniper grineer will ALWAYS hit me when i jump after a slide.

 

I'm like... roll-flying at 345678 mph and she manages to hit me with a sniper, c'mon...

 

I'm all for challenge but i hate cheap challenge.

 

That's no challenge my friend. A challenge is where you can do something. Snipers hitting you while doing such acrobatic moves with such accuracy (like every freakin' time) are just a way to troll the player. Even better when they have a hard time hitting a stationary opponent.

 

Enemy accuracy has been hilarious from the get go - and they don't seem to have any plans of fixing that even after all this time. During Archwing sequences this becomes even more apparent. With our controls being so limited (space and ctrl do activate fly up/down but for some reason those directions are limited in speed... why? then allow us to rotate our bearing... yea, I know this is not a spaceship sim - then why pretend it is? either do it properly or don't do it at all, seriously).

[Thundersquid]

As of now, they have:

 

* Commanders stunning you for 3 seconds or so on teleport. This time, on Pluto, is enough for ANY Warframe to be downed. Switch is already disorienting enough without any forced crutches to add to the problems. The only thing this forced-stun gives is makes Commanders have "I WIN" button on high enough level.

 

* Eximus Rollers: small, hard to hit, enemies that stagger you on touch and now have auras making them able to knock everyone nearby down (Fire) or become absolutely immune to ranged weapons (Ice)!

 

* Drahk Handlers. Guys tougher than every other Grineer but Heavies, capable of becoming next-to-immune to damage by covering their face with handling-arm, and out-of-nothing summoning...

 

* Drahk. They're small, INCREDIBLY hard to hit, enemies that move unpredictably and fast and deal a lot of damage - essentially a child of unholy union of a Roller and Infested Charger.

 

* EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot. Now there's a chance, on knockdowns from Drahk Handlers, Scorpions, and possibly Heavies, to drop your weapon onto the ground. Marvelous, isn't it? And some things are perfectly capable of DELETING dropped weapon, leaving you without it for the duration of the mission! So far I've seen a person lose theirs in Valkyr ultimate.

 

 

Could you PLEASE tone these down, and think a few steps ahead when you add things like these?

Dont forget.....CAN WE TONE DOWN THE UNGODLY STATUS CHANCE THEY HAVE!!! Holy hell have mercy they status every shot. If it was 1 or 2 tiks then great but its 7 guys all statusing you at the same time and it tiks for way too long like 10+ tiks per guy all doing alot of damage.....they by pass your shield and burn through your health in less than 5 sec.  Part of me wishes the hind we get access to was half as good as theirs.  I never fight grineer anymore because of the status health procs and burns and knockdowns.  They have what seems to be a 100% to status all your health away and yet the version of the hind we get has its damage fall off around t1 void stuff.  

[SilentCynic]

DE has a tendency to think that negative effects that cripple you and you can't defend against are the way to raise challenge for players. I can't stress enough how wrong that is. A challenge is a situation where have to perform better than average to overcome the hurdle. If no matter how good you are, your energy is taken, we can't speak of a challenge.  Same goes for taking a weapon (and bugging it), hurling you over with skorpion's hook, etc. or causing you bleeding without touching your shields. Disturbingly lazy ways to make a game harder. Not going to detail how to change them - did that in dozens of posts. Getting tired of it.

 

This, so very much this. The above post is the core of what makes the Grineer so absurd, and why the Corpus (lacking the above aspects) are a much better designed faction overall. RNGsus forbid the Corpus get turned into the same.

[DSpite]

Slightly off topic:

 

Loki should NOT get "stunned" by the commanders teleport cause by now he probably uses switch teleport with decoys just to save time going to the toilet and he should be used to it.

 

Just saying.

[LeadToRise]

"To be fair if you're using Boltor Prime you kinda deserve it.

"kinda"

[Suthurn]

just seems like they are buffing the wrong parts of the game.

 

grineer were already more challenging than corpus. 

 

when i was completing the planets i had to solo most missions. pluto was nearly faceroll compared to ceres. 

 

now grineer is at the ceres level of difficulty planets earlier... 

 

 

edit - i also think people should step back from their uber modded frames and think about how these changes will affect newer players. they are not going to have good mods or high ranked mods to make things easier. they kill slower and have worse defenses. they will hit a point where the game just becomes a brick wall. that isnt really a good way to keep them around. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Suthurn

[traybong111]

Dont forget.....CAN WE TONE DOWN THE UNGODLY STATUS CHANCE THEY HAVE!!! Holy hell have mercy they status every shot. If it was 1 or 2 tiks then great but its 7 guys all statusing you at the same time and it tiks for way too long like 10+ tiks per guy all doing alot of damage.....they by pass your shield and burn through your health in less than 5 sec.  Part of me wishes the hind we get access to was half as good as theirs.  I never fight grineer anymore because of the status health procs and burns and knockdowns.  They have what seems to be a 100% to status all your health away and yet the version of the hind we get has its damage fall off around t1 void stuff.  

 

This! I always thought Grineer should be the faction with no-bull$hit hard-hitting damage and AoE (with some knockdowns and maybe some avoidable stun moves available to heavies) while Corpus makes up for their relatively lower damage with knockdowns, various status procs, flashbangs and traps. As of now Grineer sort of has both tricks in their arsenal while Corpus is really meh on every aspect. 

[Barhandar]

just seems like they are buffing the wrong parts of the game.

 

grineer were already more challenging than corpus. 

 

when i was completing the planets i had to solo most missions. pluto was nearly faceroll compared to ceres. 

 

now grineer is at the ceres level of difficulty planets earlier... 

 

 

edit - i also think people should step back from their uber modded frames and think about how these changes will affect newer players. they are not going to have good mods or high ranked mods to make things easier. they kill slower and have worse defenses. they will hit a point where the game just becomes a brick wall. that isnt really a good way to keep them around. 

DE have absolutely horrendous internal communication issues.

One guy decides to buff something, based on player complaints, in one way, another in a different way, they don't ever talk together and the result is things like Grineer becoming legions of hell with their pinpoint accuracy (one change) and the stun chance (another change) and with what I've described in the first post (more than one change).

 

Also, they don't care about new players in the slightest, because right now players either quickly leave or start paying, and if the game was easier on newbies they'd likely continue playing, but not pay in the slightest, and the greed demands its due. The most common fallacy ever: thinking that profit now (current situation) is better than stable playerbase and sustainable profit later (cutting down on LEL DIFFICULTY*). Hint hint: it isn't, get over it, force your greed down into the grave and develop sustainable models)

 

* differs from actual difficulty by cheapskateness like inability to protect or prevent something from happening, like commander teleport. No, "identify and kill the commander" doesn't qualify for "preventing" it. If you can't see it happening and you can't prevent it without unused gameplay features (i.e. block), it is not challenging, it's frustrating.)

 

 

Speaking about these communication issues? They're all over the game. Players complain that alloy plate is too rare? Let's 1: increase drop chance, 2: increase drop amounts, and 3: (in a freaking LATE PATCH) let's add alloy plate to everywhere. Players complain that there are too few beacons? Okay, let's make beacons guaranteed drop, make Prosecutors drop more of a beacon per kill, and then make Prosecutors nonexistent.

[K_Shiro]

Slightly off topic:

 

Loki should NOT get "stunned" by the commanders teleport cause by now he probably uses switch teleport with decoys just to save time going to the toilet and he should be used to it.

 

Just saying.

 

First of all, the Switch-teleport's stun effect was meant for the AI and not the players. We (players) complained that when we teleport the enemy with our Loki, we need to fight the sudden change in orientation and location, while the enemy fires away as if nothing happened. Then what did they do? They added stun that affects us too (hell, I'm not even sure it affects the enemy at all). Problem is that players still notice it late that the Loki in team teleported an enemy into the group's midst so actually the enemy unit starts off with an advantage. People don't use switch teleport for actual attack because of this and because the Loki arriving on the other side is usually finished off right away since the enemy present has no reaction time, they fire right away, while Loki still has to play the animation of arrival. Bah.

Fix: There shouldn't be forced stuns in individual abilities, the AI itself should be programmed to react accordingly if a sudden change happens to known data, like it's own location or that of the target's.

Hell, it would be plain easier if the enemy constantly "planned" where they will shoot and if the target is not there by the time the action should take place, they need time to make a new plan. This way they could calculate where we will be even if we move fast through a room but if we suddenly change path or speed, they would need time to react.

Actually this is how humans work if they are adept in combat.

As for the enemy, if they get relocated to a coordinate out of the range of 20 or spinned around by more than 120°, the enemy has 25% chance to thumble and fall on the floor, while 90% to suffer disorientation debuff for seconds.

Disorientation (AI only) debuff:

• Any targets previously aquired are lost.
  
• AI's "planning time" (for leading the target) is increased by 25-75% (meaning they take longer to be able to fire), this randomly changes for every single occasion they start it.
  
• Every second the debuff is active and also When a planning phase is completed, AI has 25% chance to lose track of it's target, in which case it randomly chooses target again (it can be the same target so this happens even if only one target is present). AI has 10% chance to aquire one of their allies as target.
  
• Lowers accuracy to 50%.
  
• Lowers movement speed by 25%.

A failsafe could be built in if the enemy is constantly stopped from effectively completing the planning phase (for example player changing location irratically resulting in the AI not being able to fire even once), as for after 3-4 occasions of cancelled attacks due to players ending up in different places than "planned", the AI could switch to direct fire mode where they plain fire to player location (as they do now) BUT with lowered accuracy.

It should be stressed that we aren't talking about weapon accuracy - yet AI has no accuracy of their own, they use their weapon's stats only, most of the time that is. Or if they have, well, it's effects are nonconsequential. Actually if weapon accuracy was done properly, a simple % fall applied to said weapon accuracy could pose as the AI's own accuracy - but numerous weapons have incredible pinpoint accuracy that even lowered by 75% (to 25%) would mean they hit a fly from 3 miles away so a 2 layer accuracy might be easier. This means the AI first decides where to shoot, by applying it's own random divergence to the targeted points location (like he wants to shoot my eyes out at the point on "screen" at coordinates X730 and y140 but because of said accuracy, AI actually tries hitting x702 y192). Then after the not so precise location of the target is (mis)calculated (:D), the AI shoots at the new target point with the weapon - then the weapon accuracy applies for this shot.

I'm not going to detail it further, I don't think any programmers need to be told how to do AI accuracy actually so even my previous banter is pretty meaningless actually. Ah well, I wrote it already, erasing it would be a hussle.

 

 

just seems like they are buffing the wrong parts of the game.

 

grineer were already more challenging than corpus. 

 

when i was completing the planets i had to solo most missions. pluto was nearly faceroll compared to ceres. 

 

now grineer is at the ceres level of difficulty planets earlier... 

 

edit - i also think people should step back from their uber modded frames and think about how these changes will affect newer players. they are not going to have good mods or high ranked mods to make things easier. they kill slower and have worse defenses. they will hit a point where the game just becomes a brick wall. that isnt really a good way to keep them around. 

 

I don't understand this either.

We asked for better, harder ciphers and for more locations: we got even more stupified corpus ciphers, grineer ciphers that are not ciphers at all (and take long, and are troublesome to do when being fired upon).

 

Hell, even DE said they don't want damage sponge enemies (I think? I/we certainly did for sure) and what we have? Apart from damage sponge enemies we got invulnerable enemies that can only be hurt once a year at specific locations... riiiight, that's very challenging and enjoyable. Apart from them not being fun, they are logically flawed. Lorewise we are bada*ses, enemies craving our technologie etc. yet what we see is that enemy units, eximi, bosses, hunters, reproduce, hell, effectively overshadow our own abilities, resilience, armor, shields, everything - they can even suckle away our energy. Why in heavens name do they need our stuff then? They are already much better than us. No, if we are so advanced, then we should be advanced.

• No "immunity" to our abilities. Never, nobody, noone should ever be immune to anything. No such thing is possible, there is always a bigger force - that's how the universe is. This is an important part of the gameplay, so illogical limitations shouldn't be placed here. On the other hand we shouldn't possess complete authority over enemy movement - thus there should be a way for enemies to resist our CC effects. Easiest to make 2 ways that effect can happen, one weak and one stronger version. If enemy lucks it out (15% chance?) they get the weaker version. Actually it would add to the immersion if we could see enemies struggle against our powers - imagine a grineer heavy clawing on the floor as Bastille tries to raise it into Stasis :D would be cool as hell... hot as hell).
  
• Bosses and the like wouldn't suffer the full power, they could shrug our abilities off but only to a certain extent. At the activation of the ability they do something, roll away, jump away, literally shrug it off, raise their hand to protect their eyes from blinding flash, whatever, but they wouldn't be able to get away unscarred. If nothing else, most CC abilities would trigger a "slow" debuff on said enemies (if it was a slow to begin with, it's duration is cut by 30% or it's power). So using Bastille/Stomp on Stalker? Cool, he only moves with speed of sound now (instead that of light).
  
• No more damage sponge or "hit me here when I shine" enemies. The 2 together can work actually but only together. This means enemies can have high armor that takes off x% of the incoming damage WHILE having weakspots that speed up the process of killing them.
  
• No more enemy abilities that cannot be countered by players. I accept fireballs, but taking my weapon without me having any chance to resist that effect other than standing somewhere else (good chance doing that when you don't even know you are targeted), losing energy as if it was held on my back in a sack and they just grab onto it... energy is within our armors/bodies. It's the minimum that we first need to lose our shields so that something can suckle on our reserves. Until then, they literally can't even touch us. And let's not mention that they do this from afar, even from the other side of walls.*
  
• Also certain status effects shouldn't trigger on shields, like bleeding, corrosive. They can trigger if there is no shield present (or is 0 at that time) and the effect can be active with shield on (you can bleed under the shield but cannot be cut while it's on so no wound to bleed from in that case).

 

*Actually this deserves detailing a bit.

Energy leeches have been a long term problem in the game, nobody likes them, DE still holds onto them as if they were cool or something. Remove them already, seriously!

There are so many ways to provide challenge and while DE's level designers showed us what creativity is (hell even the most subtle room can look gorgeous), those doing the core parts of the game somehow lack in that area. Sorry for being offensive like this but it really is contrasted. On one side we have detailed, creative visuals while on the other generally flawed game-design choices that were known to be flawed since before this game was ever planned since they are old-time problems in games. Forced difficulty is one of these - the kind of situation where you can do nothing to circumvent the problem as a player and it adds nothing + to the game, just makes your life a tad more miserable. No challenge, that's different, this just plain makes it harder - like adding a feature to the game that triggers every minute you spend in a mission and gives you 75% chance to continue the mission. You fall into the 25%? You get an instand "mission failed" message and are kicked from the session. Actually this happens sometimes thanks to the ever so stable and reliable networking (why archwing when such core parts don't work properly? regroup programmers to the bug-fixing division please, they need them).

Anyways, back to how to change energy leeches so everyone is happy... already wrote about this numerous times but I'm at work so I have time to do it again. Er... I mean... er... well... I'm at home, yes, that's it.

• Eximi buff auras are long range (range of 40+), debuff auras are short range (10-15).
  
• Energy leech eximus: While within range of this baby, players have a debuff on them (icon or effect showing the presence of said debuff), that lowers power efficiency by 50% and shield recharge is slowed by 50% (both speed and cooldown of shield recharge).
  
• Disruptor doortrap, ancient, eximus: UI is scrambled, casting is disabled while "disrupted", effect lingers for 4s after the source disappears (so if you are hit once, it stays for 4 seconds, but if you keep standing close to the eximus or in the doortrap, it is constant). No touching of energy or shields!

 

Also player armor should have higher effect. Even heavy frames that move like snails die in a few shots normally (it just doesn't seem justified that you are slower but don't gain anything in return - Rhino at least has his ironskin that makes him withstand 1 shot from a sniper, but Frost... sad him) and while Valkyr has immensely higher armor than anything else, it doesn't fell all that high compared to Trinity for example (it is high but the difference in numbers imply bigger difference in effect). Reistances should be present to each individual frames (Fire resistance for Ember, etc.), different shield recharge rates, other innate additions (base health regenaration for Trinity for example), on-hit/passive effects (Loki having 25% chance to teleport to a random location within range of 25 instead of dying when a deadly strike hits him, Frost having 5% chance to freeze enemies that hit him with melee, ember having 5% to ignite any enemy within range of 10, Nyx having 5% to cause enemies within range of 10 to "disorient" etc.). So many things could spice the game up so easily and make it overall more enjoyable.

Edited October 28, 2014 by K_Shiro

[Barhandar]

First of all, the Switch-teleport's stun effect was meant for the AI and not the players. We (players) complained that when we teleport the enemy with our Loki, we need to fight the sudden change in orientation and location, while the enemy fires away as if nothing happened. Then what did they do? They added stun that affects us too (hell, I'm not even sure it affects the enemy at all). Problem is that players still notice it late that the Loki in team teleported an enemy into the group's midst so actually the enemy unit starts off with an advantage. People don't use switch teleport for actual attack because of this and because the Loki arriving on the other side is usually finished off right away since the enemy present has no reaction time, they fire right away, while Loki still has to play the animation of arrival. Bah.

Fix: There shouldn't be forced stuns in individual abilities, the AI itself should be programmed to react accordingly if a sudden change happens to known data, like it's own location or that of the target's.

Hell, it would be plain easier if the enemy constantly "planned" where they will shoot and if the target is not there by the time the action should take place, they need time to make a new plan. This way they could calculate where we will be even if we move fast through a room but if we suddenly change path or speed, they would need time to react.

Actually this is how humans work if they are adept in combat.

As for the enemy, if they get relocated to a coordinate out of the range of 20 or spinned around by more than 120°, the enemy has 25% chance to thumble and fall on the floor, while 90% to suffer disorientation debuff for seconds.

Disorientation (AI only) debuff:

• Any targets previously aquired are lost.
• AI's "planning time" (for leading the target) is increased by 25-75% (meaning they take longer to be able to fire), this randomly changes for every single occasion they start it.
• Every second the debuff is active and also When a planning phase is completed, AI has 25% chance to lose track of it's target, in which case it randomly chooses target again (it can be the same target so this happens even if only one target is present). AI has 10% chance to aquire one of their allies as target.
• Lowers accuracy to 50%.
• Lowers movement speed by 25%.

A failsafe could be built in if the enemy is constantly stopped from effectively completing the planning phase (for example player changing location irratically resulting in the AI not being able to fire even once), as for after 3-4 occasions of cancelled attacks due to players ending up in different places than "planned", the AI could switch to direct fire mode where they plain fire to player location (as they do now) BUT with lowered accuracy.

It should be stressed that we aren't talking about weapon accuracy - yet AI has no accuracy of their own, they use their weapon's stats only, most of the time that is. Or if they have, well, it's effects are nonconsequential. Actually if weapon accuracy was done properly, a simple % fall applied to said weapon accuracy could pose as the AI's own accuracy - but numerous weapons have incredible pinpoint accuracy that even lowered by 75% (to 25%) would mean they hit a fly from 3 miles away so a 2 layer accuracy might be easier. This means the AI first decides where to shoot, by applying it's own random divergence to the targeted points location (like he wants to shoot my eyes out at the point on "screen" at coordinates X730 and y140 but because of said accuracy, AI actually tries hitting x702 y192). Then after the not so precise location of the target is (mis)calculated (:D), the AI shoots at the new target point with the weapon - then the weapon accuracy applies for this shot.

I'm not going to detail it further, I don't think any programmers need to be told how to do AI accuracy actually so even my previous banter is pretty meaningless actually. Ah well, I wrote it already, erasing it would be a hussle.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand this either.

We asked for better, harder ciphers and for more locations: we got even more stupified corpus ciphers, grineer ciphers that are not ciphers at all (and take long, and are troublesome to do when being fired upon).

 

Hell, even DE said they don't want damage sponge enemies (I think? I/we certainly did for sure) and what we have? Apart from damage sponge enemies we got invulnerable enemies that can only be hurt once a year at specific locations... riiiight, that's very challenging and enjoyable. Apart from them not being fun, they are logically flawed. Lorewise we are bada*ses, enemies craving our technologie etc. yet what we see is that enemy units, eximi, bosses, hunters, reproduce, hell, effectively overshadow our own abilities, resilience, armor, shields, everything - they can even suckle away our energy. Why in heavens name do they need our stuff then? They are already much better than us. No, if we are so advanced, then we should be advanced.

 

• No "immunity" to our abilities. Never, nobody, noone should ever be immune to anything. No such thing is possible, there is always a bigger force - that's how the universe is. This is an important part of the gameplay, so illogical limitations shouldn't be placed here. On the other hand we shouldn't possess complete authority over enemy movement - thus there should be a way for enemies to resist our CC effects. Easiest to make 2 ways that effect can happen, one weak and one stronger version. If enemy lucks it out (15% chance?) they get the weaker version. Actually it would add to the immersion if we could see enemies struggle against our powers - imagine a grineer heavy clawing on the floor as Bastille tries to raise it into Stasis :D would be cool as hell... hot as hell).

   

   

• Bosses and the like wouldn't suffer the full power, they could shrug our abilities off but only to a certain extent. At the activation of the ability they do something, roll away, jump away, literally shrug it off, raise their hand to protect their eyes from blinding flash, whatever, but they wouldn't be able to get away unscarred. If nothing else, most CC abilities would trigger a "slow" debuff on said enemies (if it was a slow to begin with, it's duration is cut by 30% or it's power). So using Bastille/Stomp on Stalker? Cool, he only moves with speed of sound now (instead that of light).

   

   

• No more damage sponge or "hit me here when I shine" enemies. The 2 together can work actually but only together. This means enemies can have high armor that takes off x% of the incoming damage WHILE having weakspots that speed up the process of killing them.

   

   

• No more enemy abilities that cannot be countered by players. I accept fireballs, but taking my weapon without me having any chance to resist that effect other than standing somewhere else (good chance doing that when you don't even know you are targeted), losing energy as if it was held on my back in a sack and they just grab onto it... energy is within our armors/bodies. It's the minimum that we first need to lose our shields so that something can suckle on our reserves. Until then, they literally can't even touch us. And let's not mention that they do this from afar, even from the other side of walls.*

   

   

• Also certain status effects shouldn't trigger on shields, like bleeding, corrosive. They can trigger if there is no shield present (or is 0 at that time) and the effect can be active with shield on (you can bleed under the shield but cannot be cut while it's on so no wound to bleed from in that case).

 

 

*Actually this deserves detailing a bit.

Energy leeches have been a long term problem in the game, nobody likes them, DE still holds onto them as if they were cool or something. Remove them already, seriously!

There are so many ways to provide challenge and while DE's level designers showed us what creativity is (hell even the most subtle room can look gorgeous), those doing the core parts of the game somehow lack in that area. Sorry for being offensive like this but it really is contrasted. On one side we have detailed, creative visuals while on the other generally flawed game-design choices that were known to be flawed since before this game was ever planned since they are old-time problems in games. Forced difficulty is one of these - the kind of situation where you can do nothing to circumvent the problem as a player and it adds nothing + to the game, just makes your life a tad more miserable. No challenge, that's different, this just plain makes it harder - like adding a feature to the game that triggers every minute you spend in a mission and gives you 75% chance to continue the mission. You fall into the 25%? You get an instand "mission failed" message and are kicked from the session. Actually this happens sometimes thanks to the ever so stable and reliable networking (why archwing when such core parts don't work properly? regroup programmers to the bug-fixing division please, they need them).

Anyways, back to how to change energy leeches so everyone is happy... already wrote about this numerous times but I'm at work so I have time to do it again. Er... I mean... er... well... I'm at home, yes, that's it.

 

• Eximi buff auras are long range (range of 40+), debuff auras are short range (10-15).

   

   

• Energy leech eximus: While within range of this baby, players have a debuff on them (icon or effect showing the presence of said debuff), that lowers power efficiency by 50% and shield recharge is slowed by 50% (both speed and cooldown of shield recharge).

   

   

• Disruptor doortrap, ancient, eximus: UI is scrambled, casting is disabled while "disrupted", effect lingers for 4s after the source disappears (so if you are hit once, it stays for 4 seconds, but if you keep standing close to the eximus or in the doortrap, it is constant). No touching of energy or shields!

 

 

Also player armor should have higher effect. Even heavy frames that move like snails die in a few shots normally (it just doesn't seem justified that you are slower but don't gain anything in return - Rhino at least has his ironskin that makes him withstand 1 shot from a sniper, but Frost... sad him) and while Valkyr has immensely higher armor than anything else, it doesn't fell all that high compared to Trinity for example (it is high but the difference in numbers imply bigger difference in effect).

This. Bloody all this , and apply "no bleeding or corrosion with shield on" part to enemies too, it's much more diverse that way. Leave toxin going through shield, though, it's the element's shtick.

 

(resistances and passives part omitted on purpose - I do not like the idea of frame "X" having innate superiority over frame "Y"... or frame "x" for that matter. Though I would accept things like elemental resistance mods having increased effect on elemental Warframes - like Flame Repellent doing 15% per rank for Ember and Ember Prime - use up an oh-so-much valuable slot and become nearly immune (6 ranks total, 90% protection) to the flames you're a kin of.)

DE, you promised that Prime Warframes are purely aesthetical. Why are newer ones better than non-Prime - faster, stronger, more shielded?

[KirukaChan]

Grineer are definitely a lot harder than they were before. Just ran the Neurode alert on Phobos solo as Nova with Boltor Prime / Aklex / Brokk and my Raksa Kubrow. There's a lot of wide open space on Phobos, so I ended up getting hit a lot and proc'd a lot. I saw some Drahk Masters, but after all I've read on the forums, I'm scared S#&$less of them (prompting me to ignore every other enemy on the screen as well as the Life Support and my own health while I hit them with everything I can), so I never actually got hit by one or their Kubrows.

 

I can only imagine how rough they'll be on newbies who don't have max power efficiency, max Serration etc.

[Azawarau]

First of all, the Switch-teleport's stun effect was meant for the AI and not the players. We (players) complained that when we teleport the enemy with our Loki, we need to fight the sudden change in orientation and location, while the enemy fires away as if nothing happened. Then what did they do? They added stun that affects us too (hell, I'm not even sure it affects the enemy at all). Problem is that players still notice it late that the Loki in team teleported an enemy into the group's midst so actually the enemy unit starts off with an advantage. People don't use switch teleport for actual attack because of this and because the Loki arriving on the other side is usually finished off right away since the enemy present has no reaction time, they fire right away, while Loki still has to play the animation of arrival. Bah.

Fix: There shouldn't be forced stuns in individual abilities, the AI itself should be programmed to react accordingly if a sudden change happens to known data, like it's own location or that of the target's.

Hell, it would be plain easier if the enemy constantly "planned" where they will shoot and if the target is not there by the time the action should take place, they need time to make a new plan. This way they could calculate where we will be even if we move fast through a room but if we suddenly change path or speed, they would need time to react.

Actually this is how humans work if they are adept in combat.

As for the enemy, if they get relocated to a coordinate out of the range of 20 or spinned around by more than 120°, the enemy has 25% chance to thumble and fall on the floor, while 90% to suffer disorientation debuff for seconds.

Disorientation (AI only) debuff:

• Any targets previously aquired are lost.
• AI's "planning time" (for leading the target) is increased by 25-75% (meaning they take longer to be able to fire), this randomly changes for every single occasion they start it.
• Every second the debuff is active and also When a planning phase is completed, AI has 25% chance to lose track of it's target, in which case it randomly chooses target again (it can be the same target so this happens even if only one target is present). AI has 10% chance to aquire one of their allies as target.
• Lowers accuracy to 50%.
• Lowers movement speed by 25%.

A failsafe could be built in if the enemy is constantly stopped from effectively completing the planning phase (for example player changing location irratically resulting in the AI not being able to fire even once), as for after 3-4 occasions of cancelled attacks due to players ending up in different places than "planned", the AI could switch to direct fire mode where they plain fire to player location (as they do now) BUT with lowered accuracy.

It should be stressed that we aren't talking about weapon accuracy - yet AI has no accuracy of their own, they use their weapon's stats only, most of the time that is. Or if they have, well, it's effects are nonconsequential. Actually if weapon accuracy was done properly, a simple % fall applied to said weapon accuracy could pose as the AI's own accuracy - but numerous weapons have incredible pinpoint accuracy that even lowered by 75% (to 25%) would mean they hit a fly from 3 miles away so a 2 layer accuracy might be easier. This means the AI first decides where to shoot, by applying it's own random divergence to the targeted points location (like he wants to shoot my eyes out at the point on "screen" at coordinates X730 and y140 but because of said accuracy, AI actually tries hitting x702 y192). Then after the not so precise location of the target is (mis)calculated (:D), the AI shoots at the new target point with the weapon - then the weapon accuracy applies for this shot.

I'm not going to detail it further, I don't think any programmers need to be told how to do AI accuracy actually so even my previous banter is pretty meaningless actually. Ah well, I wrote it already, erasing it would be a hussle.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand this either.

We asked for better, harder ciphers and for more locations: we got even more stupified corpus ciphers, grineer ciphers that are not ciphers at all (and take long, and are troublesome to do when being fired upon).

 

Hell, even DE said they don't want damage sponge enemies (I think? I/we certainly did for sure) and what we have? Apart from damage sponge enemies we got invulnerable enemies that can only be hurt once a year at specific locations... riiiight, that's very challenging and enjoyable. Apart from them not being fun, they are logically flawed. Lorewise we are bada*ses, enemies craving our technologie etc. yet what we see is that enemy units, eximi, bosses, hunters, reproduce, hell, effectively overshadow our own abilities, resilience, armor, shields, everything - they can even suckle away our energy. Why in heavens name do they need our stuff then? They are already much better than us. No, if we are so advanced, then we should be advanced.

 

• No "immunity" to our abilities. Never, nobody, noone should ever be immune to anything. No such thing is possible, there is always a bigger force - that's how the universe is. This is an important part of the gameplay, so illogical limitations shouldn't be placed here. On the other hand we shouldn't possess complete authority over enemy movement - thus there should be a way for enemies to resist our CC effects. Easiest to make 2 ways that effect can happen, one weak and one stronger version. If enemy lucks it out (15% chance?) they get the weaker version. Actually it would add to the immersion if we could see enemies struggle against our powers - imagine a grineer heavy clawing on the floor as Bastille tries to raise it into Stasis :D would be cool as hell... hot as hell).

   

   

• Bosses and the like wouldn't suffer the full power, they could shrug our abilities off but only to a certain extent. At the activation of the ability they do something, roll away, jump away, literally shrug it off, raise their hand to protect their eyes from blinding flash, whatever, but they wouldn't be able to get away unscarred. If nothing else, most CC abilities would trigger a "slow" debuff on said enemies (if it was a slow to begin with, it's duration is cut by 30% or it's power). So using Bastille/Stomp on Stalker? Cool, he only moves with speed of sound now (instead that of light).

   

   

• No more damage sponge or "hit me here when I shine" enemies. The 2 together can work actually but only together. This means enemies can have high armor that takes off x% of the incoming damage WHILE having weakspots that speed up the process of killing them.

   

   

• No more enemy abilities that cannot be countered by players. I accept fireballs, but taking my weapon without me having any chance to resist that effect other than standing somewhere else (good chance doing that when you don't even know you are targeted), losing energy as if it was held on my back in a sack and they just grab onto it... energy is within our armors/bodies. It's the minimum that we first need to lose our shields so that something can suckle on our reserves. Until then, they literally can't even touch us. And let's not mention that they do this from afar, even from the other side of walls.*

   

   

• Also certain status effects shouldn't trigger on shields, like bleeding, corrosive. They can trigger if there is no shield present (or is 0 at that time) and the effect can be active with shield on (you can bleed under the shield but cannot be cut while it's on so no wound to bleed from in that case).

 

 

*Actually this deserves detailing a bit.

Energy leeches have been a long term problem in the game, nobody likes them, DE still holds onto them as if they were cool or something. Remove them already, seriously!

There are so many ways to provide challenge and while DE's level designers showed us what creativity is (hell even the most subtle room can look gorgeous), those doing the core parts of the game somehow lack in that area. Sorry for being offensive like this but it really is contrasted. On one side we have detailed, creative visuals while on the other generally flawed game-design choices that were known to be flawed since before this game was ever planned since they are old-time problems in games. Forced difficulty is one of these - the kind of situation where you can do nothing to circumvent the problem as a player and it adds nothing + to the game, just makes your life a tad more miserable. No challenge, that's different, this just plain makes it harder - like adding a feature to the game that triggers every minute you spend in a mission and gives you 75% chance to continue the mission. You fall into the 25%? You get an instand "mission failed" message and are kicked from the session. Actually this happens sometimes thanks to the ever so stable and reliable networking (why archwing when such core parts don't work properly? regroup programmers to the bug-fixing division please, they need them).

Anyways, back to how to change energy leeches so everyone is happy... already wrote about this numerous times but I'm at work so I have time to do it again. Er... I mean... er... well... I'm at home, yes, that's it.

 

• Eximi buff auras are long range (range of 40+), debuff auras are short range (10-15).

   

   

• Energy leech eximus: While within range of this baby, players have a debuff on them (icon or effect showing the presence of said debuff), that lowers power efficiency by 50% and shield recharge is slowed by 50% (both speed and cooldown of shield recharge).

   

   

• Disruptor doortrap, ancient, eximus: UI is scrambled, casting is disabled while "disrupted", effect lingers for 4s after the source disappears (so if you are hit once, it stays for 4 seconds, but if you keep standing close to the eximus or in the doortrap, it is constant). No touching of energy or shields!

 

 

Also player armor should have higher effect. Even heavy frames that move like snails die in a few shots normally (it just doesn't seem justified that you are slower but don't gain anything in return - Rhino at least has his ironskin that makes him withstand 1 shot from a sniper, but Frost... sad him) and while Valkyr has immensely higher armor than anything else, it doesn't fell all that high compared to Trinity for example (it is high but the difference in numbers imply bigger difference in effect). Reistances should be present to each individual frames (Fire resistance for Ember, etc.), different shield recharge rates, other innate additions (base health regenaration for Trinity for example), on-hit/passive effects (Loki having 25% chance to teleport to a random location within range of 25 instead of dying when a deadly strike hits him, Frost having 5% chance to freeze enemies that hit him with melee, ember having 5% to ignite any enemy within range of 10, Nyx having 5% to cause enemies within range of 10 to "disorient" etc.). So many things could spice the game up so easily and make it overall more enjoyable.

Theres surprisingly little in here i dislike though its certainly debatable

 

I have no issue with energy leeches but your idea for a change is actually a very good one

 

Grineer commanders are a huge issue in game

 

Though ive never personally been killed by the teleport (and before someone stupidly points out that i main valkyr ill add that i sub ember and working on both saryn and banshee) i can see the frustration in suddenly being put into the center of enemies and left without a chance to retaliate for so long

 

Though this is what we do to enemies quite often

 

Armor certainly needs a fix and the enemy AI should be increased or changed to be more competent regardless of DEs stance on the subject

[Liminal]

Grineer are masters of the art of removing player control.

Needless to say I believe it's a terrible way to increase difficulty.

[letir]

At least they can kill someone.