So Many People Who Used 0-1 Powers Popping Up....

[TheGuy08]

Ill put it like this. It killed my Excal build but everything else either didn't change or got better (looking at you Ash). My only real complaint is that with the new system DE kind of screwed many of us on the releveling of frames. A nice move would have been to send everyone an EXP booster for the reforma grind.

[Marthrym]

The thing is, this change actually didn't change anything. We have all 4 abilities available at all times, yet Corrupted mods completely destroy that "advantage", because they make 1-2 abilities great, and, again, destroy the other 2-3. So, while I have no issue with this change, if the devs think it will "help" (rather FORCE) us to use more abilities, they're dead wrong...

And don't tell me something stupid like "then don't use Corrupted mods" plox...

Edited October 28, 2014 by Marthrym

[SIDESTRE4M]

That is completely false. 

 

As is this. The change to abilities and the reduction in slots has actually reduced the overall number of possible builds. So diversity is actually down.

 

And your summation of what I see is also false. I don't see the addition of abilities as something that inherently damages my builds. It is the removal of slots that damages my builds. Adding abilities in exchange for the removal of mods I wanted damages my builds. Bringing the slot count from eight to ten would not damage my builds, wouldn't damage other people's builds, and it would only serve to increase the overall number of potential builds.

 

Is English not your first language? I ask because your post is worded strangely and is rather confusing to read. You're the one who brought up diversity yet now you're saying it has nothing to do with it. English not being your first language would also explain the difficult you seem to be having comprehending what it is that I type.

 

Haha, you got me. English is indeed not my first language and I was also tired, I'm sorry for this. However I can assure you, I don't have problems reading your post. I have problems understanding your mindsetting.

 

Why can't you see that the old system puts those with four abilities at a disadvantage? I mean, if you used all four abilities, your available mod slots are reduced to six.

 

I can't see why people who are using more abilities, using the full concept of the frame as whole, should have a disadvantage compared to people using less abilities.

 

It's not about the number of possible builds. That maybe went down a bit. However the number of possible builds with all abilities went straight up.

 

The devs are considering playing with all abilities should be the norm. The result is, people who used extreme min/maxing pulled the short stick.

 

Your suggestion is giving all people 10 mod slots. Don't you think that's a bit much, considering the fact how much corrupted mods warped the meta after introduction?

 

EDIT: I see what the problem is. We had that discussion before in another topic. I didn't speak directly to you before in this topic, but you were the one answered without mentioning your 10 slot solution.

Edited October 28, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[SquirmyBurrito]

Haha, you got me. English is indeed not my first language and I was also tired, I'm sorry for this. However I can assure you, I don't have problems reading your post. I have problems understanding your mindsetting.

 

Why can't you see that the old system puts those with four abilities at a disadvantage? I mean, if you used all four abilities, your available mod slots are reduced to six.

 

I can't see why people who are using more abilities, using the full concept of the frame as whole, should have a disadvantage compared to people using less abilities.

 

It's not about the number of possible builds. That maybe went down a bit. However the number of possible builds with all abilities went straight up.

 

The devs are considering playing with all abilities should be the norm. The result is, people who used extreme min/maxing pulled the short stick.

 

Your suggestion is giving all people 10 mod slots. Don't you think that's a bit much, considering the fact how much corrupted mods warped the meta after introduction?

 

EDIT: I see what the problem is. We had that discussion before in another topic. I didn't speak directly to you before in this topic, but you were the one answered without mentioning your 10 slot solution.

 

Alright.

 

I can't see it because it didn't. Those who carried all their abilities had more versatility than those who chose not to. Invisibility only Loki isn't inherently more advantageous than a Loki that slots all four skills. No, you still technically had all ten slots, you just chose to slot powers instead of other mods.

 

They weren't.

 

Not just a bit, the decrease in potential builds was massive (assuming I didn't bork the math). Yes, when compared to 4 ability builds the number of builds has gone up, but when compared to my suggestion (10 slots instead of 8) it is still down.

 

Pre-U15 control group, 6 slots (the other four have abilities slotted) and 46 total non-aura or warframe ability mods. AKA number of potential 4 ability builds

-9366819

 

With 46 mods but eight slots (abilities assumed to be in-grained into the frame)

-260932815

 

U15 number of mods (48 mods+22 ability augments=70), with only six mod slots available

-131115985

 

 

U15 total number of builds (70 mods, 8 slots)

-9440350920

 

Pre-U15 total number of builds (46 mods, 4 ability mods, 10 slots)

-10272278170

 

My suggestion (10 slots, 70 mods)

-396704524216

 

Build diversity is down.

 

No, I don't think giving each player 10 slots is too much. I typed up a power comparison for three builds (pre-U15, U15+corrupted mods, my suggestion) and the difference in power between the last two wasn't much. Those builds also assumed the extra slots would only be used for further augmenting abilities instead of utility/defense mods. Those builds also assumed the player was of the four ability build mindset wherein they avoid completely screwing over some abilities in favor of others. So mod space was wasted countering corrupted mod downsides.

[VDeorsum]

That is completely false.

As is this. The change to abilities and the reduction in slots has actually reduced the overall number of possible builds. So diversity is actually down.

^THIS

[inappropriatename5818]

Only frame I used 1 skill on was Nekros and the chance pretty much broke him... well, what was left of him after Rage QT nerf.  

Other than that I like the change, frames require less forma to do what they did before, most can go without formas now, which is great and all frames have at least 2 good abilities, so it's a buff to all those frames.    

 

On the other hand, I was really hoping we would keep the 2 slots, it would open up a lot of room for utility mods like Handspring for example. Now, there's just no room...

[MichaelSD]

As an Excalibur player this is not to my liking. Not only did they nerf the only usable ability of the Excalibur, they also reduced my slot number. Radial Javelin is worthless at T2, as is Slash Dash. Jump is...well of not much use. Radial Blind is useful and they nerf it and I even have to use less mods for. Bravo!

 

At least half of the mods were useless anyway, now this increases with less mod slots.

[SIDESTRE4M]

 

Alright.

 

I can't see it because it didn't. Those who carried all their abilities had more versatility than those who chose not to. Invisibility only Loki isn't inherently more advantageous than a Loki that slots all four skills. No, you still technically had all ten slots, you just chose to slot powers instead of other mods.

 

They weren't.

 

Not just a bit, the decrease in potential builds was massive (assuming I didn't bork the math). Yes, when compared to 4 ability builds the number of builds has gone up, but when compared to my suggestion (10 slots instead of 8) it is still down.

 

Pre-U15 control group, 6 slots (the other four have abilities slotted) and 46 total non-aura or warframe ability mods. AKA number of potential 4 ability builds

-9366819

 

With 46 mods but eight slots (abilities assumed to be in-grained into the frame)

-260932815

 

U15 number of mods (48 mods+22 ability augments=70), with only six mod slots available

-131115985

 

 

U15 total number of builds (70 mods, 8 slots)

-9440350920

 

Pre-U15 total number of builds (46 mods, 4 ability mods, 10 slots)

-10272278170

 

My suggestion (10 slots, 70 mods)

-396704524216

 

Build diversity is down.

 

No, I don't think giving each player 10 slots is too much. I typed up a power comparison for three builds (pre-U15, U15+corrupted mods, my suggestion) and the difference in power between the last two wasn't much. Those builds also assumed the extra slots would only be used for further augmenting abilities instead of utility/defense mods. Those builds also assumed the player was of the four ability build mindset wherein they avoid completely screwing over some abilities in favor of others. So mod space was wasted countering corrupted mod downsides.

 

 

Ok, let's put it that way: You have a frame and a concept. The concept consists of four abilities. Sadly not all abilities have the same quality, but that shouldn't influence the basis.

 

The more abilities you wanted to have, the weaker your overall build got. You say, but I have more options because I have more abilities. In a way that's right. On the other hand, playing the frame as intended puts me at a disatvantage compared to a min/maxed one or two trick pony build.

Don't state otherwise. There are of course exceptions dependable on what frame you use, but when you go high level missions and plan holding out longer or even very long, you don't bring four abilitiy builds. You focus on one or maybe two abilities and scrap the rest. So all the update did, was changing that.

 

The devs did think it wouldn't be healthy for the long run (and I agree), so came up with this new system, giving most people more possibilities, while cutting those of some elitists, who now claim, one mod less is destroying their builds.

 

Furthermore your numbers are worth nothing, because comparing the number of all mod configurations does what? That doesn't mean, that in reality we have the same number of viable builds.

 

You even agreed with me - looking at 4 ability builds before vs after the update - the people with less abilities had more possibilities.

 

Your "suggestion" OBVIOUSLY generates more possibilities. Even more simple logic: additional slots = more possibilites.

 

But your suggestion is your thing. It has nothing to do with the comparison about what we had before and are having now.

Of course, your suggestion wouldn't hurt anyone. That's not the point. "Hurting" is debatable. What hurts the game as whole and what hurts some minorities... In a game with infinite scaling with no real point or mark that is set where endgame begins or ends, people only see minutes in survival or waves, which usually don't have anything to do with real difficulty.

 

As an Excalibur player this is not to my liking. Not only did they nerf the only usable ability of the Excalibur, they also reduced my slot number. Radial Javelin is worthless at T2, as is Slash Dash. Jump is...well of not much use. Radial Blind is useful and they nerf it and I even have to use less mods for. Bravo!

 

At least half of the mods were useless anyway, now this increases with less mod slots.

 

As a Volt player, I like the change. I got one-two more slots out of it. So what?

Edited October 29, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Eric1738]

i am so happy i can use more abilities now. before U15, at minimum i keep 2 ability mods, so the slot change didnt hurt me at all, but gave me 2 more abilities to use. i think it's a good trend since abilities are designed to synergize with each other.

though we could have some underwhelming abilities improved. i am satisfied with the new content from U15. now let's start doing some serious balance work!

Edited October 29, 2014 by Eric1738

[SquirmyBurrito]

Ok, let's put it that way: You have a frame and a concept. The concept consists of four abilities. Sadly not all abilities have the same quality, but that shouldn't influence the basis.

 

The more abilities you wanted to have, the weaker your overall build got. You say, but I have more options because I have more abilities. In a way that's right. On the other hand, playing the frame as intended puts me at a disatvantage compared to a min/maxed one or two trick pony build.

Don't state otherwise. There are exceptions dependable on what frame you use, but it's the truth.

 

The devs did think it wouldn't be healthy for the long run (and I agree), so came up with this new system, giving most people more possibilities, while cutting those of some elitists, who now claim, one mod less are destroying their builds.

 

Furthermore your numbers are worth nothing, because comparing the number of all mod configurations does what? That doesn't mean, that in reality we have the same number of viable builds.

 

Your "suggestion" OBVIOUSLY generates more possibilities. Even more simple logic: 2 additional slots = more possibilites.

 

But your suggestion is your thing. It has nothing to do with the comparison about what we had before and are having now.

Of course, your suggestion wouldn't hurt anyone. That's not the point. "Hurting" is debatable. What hurts the game as whole and what hurts some minorities... In a game with infinite scaling with no real point or mark that is set where endgame begins or ends, people only see minutes in survival or waves, which usually don't have anything to do with real difficulty.

 

A frame is more than just its abilities.

 

This is false. You aren't at a disadvantage, you can fulfill more roles than the specialist can. If I forsake every skill on my Banshee for a max power strength sonar, the usability of her other abilities tanks (decreases sharply). I can no longer CC, all I can do is support my team with enhanced damage. A four ability banshee may not be as good at buffing damage as a max sonar banshee is, but that four ability banshee can CC the enemies while still being able to buff damage. There are fewer exceptions to what I stated than what you did. It is versatility vs. specialization.

 

The Devs have not made a statement regarding their opinion on min-max'ing as a team. When I asked I was told that they don't all agree. They wanted all frame abilities to be accessible, but they did not state that they also wanted to get rid of min-maxing/specialization. So we're elitists just because we didn't want to play the way you did?

 

Sorry, but that's not how it works. You don't get to just declare my math worthless. Either find fault in it or get over the fact that diversity is down. We don't have the same number of viable builds. The difference in numbers is monstrous 10272278170 vs what we now have 9440350920.

 

I know, what's your point?

 

It has everything to do with it. Are you unaware of what the subject of our discussion is? Did you miss the purpose of all those numbers? No, that is exactly the point. DE's decision hurt people, mine accomplishes their goal without harming anyone (their goal being to integrate warframe abilities into our frames). Yes it is, but it isn't in the context of our discussion. I've already addressed the power gap argument. The difference in power between a worst case scenario U15 build and that same build with two extra slots is minuscule. Whether or not you think the group harmed is a minority is irrelevant. And the underlined bit is irrelevant and off topic. Our builds were not harming the game nor would they be with my suggestion in play. You can try to toot the balance horn all you want, but until you have some actual substance it will continue to get brushed aside. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

More than 95% of your math calculated possible builds are useless, so there is no point.

That more slots mean more numbers is no surprise at all.

 

The devs don't all agree? Maybe, but they did the change.

 

So you used Banshee as an example? How about Vauban? He'll do fine with 1-2 abilities. What about Nova? She can cut at least 2 abilies and focus on MPrime/Antimatter drop for good. What about Nekros? Does a well equipped team need more than just desecrate?

 

What does versatility do for them? Less than it does for Volt for example. He can get usefullness out of at least three abilities. Banshee you mentioned yourself is another good example. I would say Loki, Ash, Trinity.

The update is good for some frames, while not so much for others if you don't want to have some fun with bounciness or soulpunching.

 

If the abilities are worked on, so people would actually want to use more abilities, the update will do good. But like in any game you have weaker and stronger abilities. Warframe don't have skill trees. Its system is so unique, that giving up on abilities will grant you more power in some cases.

 

That's how I see it. Giving up on abilities grants you more power in some cases, while you think equipping more abilities will grant you more versatility. My default mindsetting considers four abilities.

 

Your suggestion is something else. Whether "stealing" one or two slots from people prefering other builds, based on the freedom they had before, are hurting in the whole context is more or less personal opinion as we found out.

I don't think your suggestion hasn't been discussed by the devs. At some point they probably came to the result, the cutting of 2 slots is neccessary.

You came to another conclusion, and I could live with either way.

 

So what substance are you missing?

[SquirmyBurrito]

More than 95% of your math calculated possible builds are useless, so there is no point.

That more slots mean more numbers is no surprise at all.

 

The devs don't all agree? Maybe, but they did the change.

 

So you used Banshee as an example? How about Vauban? He'll do fine with 1-2 abilities. What about Nova? She can cut at least 2 abilies and focus on MPrime/Antimatter drop for good. What about Nekros? Does a well equipped team need more than just desecrate?

 

What does versatility do for them? Less than it does for Volt for example. He can get usefullness out of at least three abilities. Banshee you mentioned yourself is another good example. I would say Loki, Ash, Trinity.

The update is good for some frames, while not so much for others if you don't want to have some fun with bounciness or soulpunching.

 

If the abilities are worked on, so people would actually want to use more abilities, the update will do good. But like in any game you have weaker and stronger abilities. Warframe don't have skill trees. Its system is so unique, that giving up on abilities will grant you more power in some cases.

 

That's how I see it. Giving up on abilities grants you more power in some cases, while you think equipping more abilities will grant you more versatility. My default mindsetting considers four abilities.

 

Your suggestion is something else. Whether "stealing" one or two slots from people prefering other builds, based on the freedom they had before, are hurting in the whole context is more or less personal opinion as we found out.

I don't think your suggestion hasn't been discussed by the devs. At some point they probably came to the result, the cutting of 2 slots is neccessary.

You came to another conclusion, and I could live with either way.

 

So what substance are you missing?

 

Prove it.

Never said it was.

 

It isn't a maybe, I heard that directly from DERebecca, and the changes purpose was not (from what I've been told) intended as an attack against min-maxers. It was purely to make sure that all frames always have access to their abilities regardless of your build.

The issue is that you're completely ignoring the fact that I said  versatility vs. specilization.

Vauban is easy bastille fits a different role than vortex (similar but different), tesla fits a different role than bounce (similar but different). Vortex does great with a max narrowminded, bastille and tesla do not.

Nova is too. Focusing solely on MPrime and AMD limits your utility (wormhole).

Nekros can be used for more than just desecrate. Focusing on desecrate gimps your ability to fill other roles.

 

It does quite a lot. Volt is a great example of a frame who can be harmed by specializing. Focusing on spammable shocks gimps electric shield and speed or forces you to waste slots countering the downside of fleeting expertise. Focusing on damage limits the usability of all his skills. Focusing on range limits damage (his ult, and speed). Focusing on duration limits range (speed, shock, and his ult). A speed volt (duration and power strength up) will have far less range on shock and his ult and will have energy concerns unless he has someone (trinity) to constantly feed him more energy.

 

Not sure why you brought up Banshee when she counters your argument. Loki focusing on invisibility gimps radial disarm and switch teleport, Loki focusing on radial disarm gimps invisibility and decoy. Ash focusing on spamming his ult gimps smokescreen, Ash focusing on long smokescreens gimps his ult, Ash focusing on a high damage ult gimps his skill spammability. Trinity focusing on Blessing has terrible range and high energy costs, Trinity focusing on link has lower power strength (overextended for more range) and/or lower range (narrowminded for more duration), etc.

This update can be good for every frame as long as you're running 2-4 ability builds. I never argued that it wasn't. I said that it harmed those players who wanted to use 1-0 ability builds.

 

I'm not here to speculate over this kind of stuff not that it is even relevant as that doesn't change the way this affects those who desire to use 0-1 ability builds.

 

Giving up abilities grants higher power in fewer roles. AKA Versatility vs.Role specialization.

 

No, it isn't an opinion. It is a fact that this change has removed two mod slots and has effectively removed 1-2 mods from the builds of players who used 1-0 ability builds.

I don't really care about your speculation on what it is the Devs thought about.

 

I'm not missing anything, it is the balance argument that is lacking in substance. I have already pointed out that the difference in power between a 4 ability build with 8 slots (and ingrained abilities) and a 10 slots build (with abilities ingrained) isn't very large. My example was a worst case scenario in which the player decided to use the extra slots for more ability affecting mods. It disregarded the potential desire for augments, utility, and defense mods.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Whatever the devs thought or not, we had 10 slots before and they cut them down to 8. So there must be a reason behind it, why they didn't exactly keep the 10 slots while making abilities redundant.

 

All I know is, there are people wishing back the old state, while many others, probably using other builds and frames are welcoming the changes.

I welcome the changes, because I dislike one-trick-ponies. I find them boring. I like using abilities, even if they don't fit the ultra robotic effiency. Note: Personal opinion.

 

Now there are people who think, using those builds was their freedom before and they want still want that freedom. AKA, they want that extra slot. MAAAAYBE two extra slots. Note: Personal preference.

 

(note: My first argument in this topic was that neither of these factions would be willing to grant either one their advantage. So arguing over it is irrelevant)

 

This lead us to the question, what exactly advantage is and who exactly has/had this advantage.

So somewhere in this mess we had that versatility-vs-speciality argument, because I stated, having more abilities means less utility mods, thus gimping the build.

Then you used banshee as an counterargument who would profit more from versatility.

Then I replied that exactly because of this the update is good for her.

After the update, certain frames profit from the changes, others not IF they were built in a certain way.

I think we are agreeing on the same thing, so let's leave that aside.

 

Inmidst that you came with your suggestion, we should have 10 slots, so all could be happy as a grand solution for everything, which could be true.

So all that's left is that question.

 

Seriously I don't know why we are even arguing. No, I know. Somewhere I did the mistake to entitle myself to one of the factions mentioned above... and you took the other role.

[MichaelSD]

I do not think so that it was only to have access to all 4 abilities. Why did they reduce the number of slots than?

 

It isn't a maybe, I heard that directly from DERebecca, and the changes purpose was not (from what I've been told) intended as an attack against min-maxers. It was purely to make sure that all frames always have access to their abilities regardless of your build.

[Crewell]

I have yet to encounter anything in the game I couldn't do with the 8 mod slots that I could with 10. Granted I haven't tried running an hour or longer survival or defense into wave 40+, but I did that before U15 with all 4 powers loaded. In fact since U15 most frames got the same two mods added to give a little more survivability, but nothing I couldn't live without like I have for the last 1 3/4 years.

Plus DE has stated several times that people doing that is a small niche they will not try to design or balance around.

I challenge players wanting ten slots to please list what mods they gave up and what that sacrifice keeps them from doing in game. That may actually be a better way of presenting evidence for their plea to get 10 slots instead of the constant whining posts we get now.

[MichaelSD]

That "small niche" thing is bullS#&$. Most warframes can not use all 4 abilities as the mods requires to make them useful oppose each other, so having 4 abilities is an illusion of an advantage. Also at least 1 ability is meh anyway (I never saw an Excalibur using Super Jump for example). So at the end of the day even without heavily min-maxing you end up with 1 or 2 abilities.

 

Besides for low and mid level I do not need any abilities, because I can cut and shoot up everything. At high level most abilities are and remain useless anyway.

 

What the devs did is increasing the difficulty level, which is ok, but they try to sell it as giving as all 4 abilities. That is simply distasteful in my eyes, sorry.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I have yet to encounter anything in the game I couldn't do with the 8 mod slots that I could with 10. Granted I haven't tried running an hour or longer survival or defense into wave 40+, but I did that before U15 with all 4 powers loaded. In fact since U15 most frames got the same two mods added to give a little more survivability, but nothing I couldn't live without like I have for the last 1 3/4 years.

Plus DE has stated several times that people doing that is a small niche they will not try to design or balance around.

I challenge players wanting ten slots to please list what mods they gave up and what that sacrifice keeps them from doing in game. That may actually be a better way of presenting evidence for their plea to get 10 slots instead of the constant whining posts we get now.

Gate Crash Endurance my 10 mods + Rejuvenation Aura on Valkyr (Endurance Gate Crash pretty much made abilities useless) Steel Fiber+Redirection+Vigor+Handspring+Quick Rest+Vitality+Flow+Quick-Thinking+Rush+Rage

What 4-abilities were you using successfully in Endurance Gate Crash?

[SIDESTRE4M]

None. But that's just Gate Crash. Balancing the game arround Gate Crash doesn't seem logical.

[Crewell]

Gate Crash Endurance my 10 mods + Rejuvenation Aura on Valkyr (Endurance Gate Crash pretty much made abilities useless) Steel Fiber+Redirection+Vigor+Handspring+Quick Rest+Vitality+Flow+Quick-Thinking+Rush+Rage

What 4-abilities were you using successfully in Endurance Gate Crash?

So you're saying you couldn't do that without Rush and Handspring? Also trying to balance for solo play isn't a valid reason. Finally, I did all of gate crash sufficient to get every reward from the event with my Zephyr. Edited October 29, 2014 by Crewell

[SquirmyBurrito]

Whatever the devs thought or not, we had 10 slots before and they cut them down to 8. So there must be a reason behind it, why they didn't exactly keep the 10 slots while making abilities redundant.

 

All I know is, there are people wishing back the old state, while many others, probably using other builds and frames are welcoming the changes.

I welcome the changes, because I dislike one-trick-ponies. I find them boring. I like using abilities, even if they don't fit the ultra robotic effiency. Note: Personal opinion.

 

Now there are people who think, using those builds was their freedom before and they want still want that freedom. AKA, they want that extra slot. MAAAAYBE two extra slots. Note: Personal preference.

 

(note: My first argument in this topic was that neither of these factions would be willing to grant either one their advantage. So arguing over it is irrelevant)

 

This lead us to the question, what exactly advantage is and who exactly has/had this advantage.

So somewhere in this mess we had that versatility-vs-speciality argument, because I stated, having more abilities means less utility mods, thus gimping the build.

Then you used banshee as an counterargument who would profit more from versatility.

Then I replied that exactly because of this the update is good for her.

After the update, certain frames profit from the changes, others not IF they were built in a certain way.

I think we are agreeing on the same thing, so let's leave that aside.

 

Inmidst that you came with your suggestion, we should have 10 slots, so all could be happy as a grand solution for everything, which could be true.

So all that's left is that question.

 

Seriously I don't know why we are even arguing. No, I know. Somewhere I did the mistake to entitle myself to one of the factions mentioned above... and you took the other role.

 

If you don't like specialist builds, don't use them. That isn't a valid reason to want other people's builds harmed. I don't like numerous different playstyles and builds, that doesn't mean I hope that DE screws those builds over.

 

They want their mods back. And the argument in support of that is fairly solid as there isn't any good reason not to give us the two slots back. 'muh balance' has gone unsubstantiated.

 

Your first argument makes zero sense as neither side has an advantage that can be shared. You can't share versatility with a person who is using a build that gimps most of their abilities. And you can't share role specialization (to the same degree that a specialist has) without sacrificing several abilities. 

 

Having less utility mods does not equate to gimping your build unless your build relies on them. 

The update wasn't good for her as having access to her other abilities while using a max power strength sonar build is useless.

It isn't the frames specifically the benefit from this change, it is certain builds on those frames that benefit. A 4 ability build banshee benefits, a Sonar Banshee does not.

 

So you're saying you couldn't do that without Rush and Handspring? Also trying to balance for solo play isn't a valid reason. Finally, I did all of gate crash sufficient to get every reward from the event with my Zephyr.

 

Why should DE try and balance solo play? Handspring saves you from unnecessary damage (you can't defend yourself when you're knocked down) and rush allows you to get around quicker with less exposure to enemies which also ends up reducing the total amount of damage you're taking while allowing you to complete objectives faster (less time spent in transition). The nature of your question perfectly illustrates the issue that DE has created. Utility mods were already underused, but now with the introduction of new competitive mods and the overall reduction to our number of total slots those mods are becoming even less used.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Which part of personal preference did you not understand?

 

Otherwise I just can't understand your reasoning. I'm sorry. I'm not entitled to using one-abilitiy builds.

So the update was good for my playstyle and others who have similar playstyles.

I assume it was not good for you then. I'm sorry for that. I can't change that.

 

You want that 10 mod solution, so some people don't lose their precious slot and even some people don't lose their two slots.

I didn't say I don't want that. I said I have worries about it beeing to much. There is nothing to prove.

 

Everything else is personal opinion about powerlevel or what that advantage is. To me my builds are more powerfull than before the update, so there is nothing to discuss about.

For people using one-trick-ponies, their builds lost the power of a mod. There is again nothing to discuss about.

Edited October 29, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Crewell]

Squirmy you didn't answer the question. You gave reasons for using the two mods I mentioned, but the question is could you do the mission without the mods.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

So you're saying you couldn't do that without Rush and Handspring? Also trying to balance for solo play isn't a valid reason. Finally, I did all of gate crash sufficient to get every reward from the event with my Zephyr.

Wait you got the trophy for endurance Gate Crash? Or do you not count trophies as Event rewards.

Also what abilities were you using from Zephyr on endurance run 250+?

And no Rush and Handspring were not mandatory- they did make it easier and from my experience on the Gate Crash Endurance runs were more useful than having abilities slotted or Ability enhancing mods.

I must be mistaken, but I thought as Extractor missions were being brought in as outdoor Survival, Gate Crash's mechanic of weakening over repeated runs was going to be applied to future alerts and events. (I don't know why I thought that.Maybe one day all hard Tower and Orokin Derelicts will gate Gate Crash treatment for taking the same frame or weapon repeatedly into the void....)

I digress.

When GU15 I'll delete one of my Valkyrs as there will no longer be a point in having Differntely forma'd duplicate frames. I'll adapt a build to whatever changes DE brings.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Squirmy you didn't answer the question. You gave reasons for using the two mods I mentioned, but the question is could you do the mission without the mods.

 

You could, my problem is that with less slots we're being forced to ask ourselves 'Do I really need this mod?' and it is that question that is making the less competitive utility mods even more scarcely used. I think I left that out in my post. Sorry about that.

[Crewell]

MrNishi I didn't count the trophies. They are not individual rewards. I also don't remember how far I went for pts on that event. I am trying to point out that sure it would be nice to have 10 vs 8 mod slots, but as you and Squirmy both stated, you probably could have done the job with 8. Plus isn't the whole point when you get to that high, or you run a 1.5 hr+ survival or wave 100+ defense the challenge? I'm guessing the challenge is still there.

You could, my problem is that with less slots we're being forced to ask ourselves 'Do I really need this mod?' and it is that question that is making the less competitive utility mods even more scarcely used. I think I left that out in my post. Sorry about that.

I think we've all asked that question from day one, whether we have six, eight, or ten mod slots. I've made posts in the past about how it would be nice if DE would make a mod categorys for frame mods. Then give us slots for each of those types. I'm the end though players would still be picking certain mods over others almost every time due to the performance they offer. It's like if you had to choose between Redirection and Vitality, most of the time players would pick the former because it offers a bit more in game. Granted certain frame may want the latter, but it'll always come down to what offers more in game for our build and the frame we are using. We as players will adapt. Also maybe DE will add new nightmare or corupted mods to give us more variety.