U15 Excalibur And The Joke We Call Super Jump

[Ithloniel]

 

TL;DR - the current Super Jump is fulfilling my wildest Excalibur dreams as I zigzag across the heavens in a single Invisible bound.

Super Jump's biggest buff wasn't the stun or the invisibility-- it was the introduction of Air Slashes.

 

As mentioned by many others, most players will just shoot enemies out of the air.  Personally, I am not that kind of player.  I love playing the sword alone.  Nonetheless, I find Super Jump highly underwhelming, especially since, any contact with any floor/wall-based surface, or even if your Excalibur's feet touch the top of an allied/enemy unit, your Super Jump invisibility ends.

 

I tested air slashes with Super Jump a lot myself, and I have found it highly situational.  Most levels have low ceilings, and those that don't still contain mostly ground units.  Any air units on the map are only slightly off the ground (eg. Drones) and can be hit by a simple tiny regular jump, followed by a directional air slash.  Due to this, there are few circumstances that warrant air slashing off of the Super Jump.  In fact, the most common time I use air slashes is to quickly and efficiently close tiny distances during close melee combat with my Dakra P.

 

Considering the commonly low-altitude nature of Warframe enemies, I'd agree with Ja_man who said:

 

 

I feel super jumps usefulness had been reduced now that any frame can air attack up to most ledges. Unless you're maxing out the jump height to make extraordinarily high jumps.

[SIDESTRE4M]

The biggest problem with super jump is: You need power strength. WIithout pwr-str, it isn't even able to shortcut some basic rooms in Void.

 

Since the Javelins didn't do good before the update, most people screwed everything using strenght and just opted for blind bro builds.

 

Personally I like playing Excalibur WITH superjump. I use him with Blind Rage and he's doing fine in all missions, except longer survivals or defenses. Because at a certain point, he loses all his effectiveness.

 

But that's a problem, nearly all damage based frames have (looking at you, Ember).

 

On the other hand, like I said, I'm doing fine otherwise, so I dunno.

Edited October 29, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[fatpig84]

Super Jump is mobility.

We should be able to double jump, super jump immediately after a wall run, a directional melee, a copter or even a flying kick. All these while flying through the air.

 

Right now as a mobility skill, it is among the weakest since most of the time, you need to be on the ground to cast.

What a silly restriction.

[SIDESTRE4M]

It was considered weak before Zephyr, because it didn't do damage.

It is considered weak after Zephyr, because she has better mobility.

 

Excalibur somewhat aged, you could say.

 

However I think, the changes are going to a good direction.

[shut]

 

any contact with any floor/wall-based surface, or even if your Excalibur's feet touch the top of an allied/enemy unit, your Super Jump invisibility ends.

 

Just pointing out, touching walls won't cancel your invisibility. Unless it's a really wonky-shaped wall that's slanted enough to register as a floor. XD

 

 

I tested air slashes with Super Jump a lot myself, and I have found it highly situational.  Most levels have low ceilings, and those that don't still contain mostly ground units.  Any air units on the map are only slightly off the ground (eg. Drones) and can be hit by a simple tiny regular jump, followed by a directional air slash.  Due to this, there are few circumstances that warrant air slashing off of the Super Jump.  In fact, the most common time I use air slashes is to quickly and efficiently close tiny distances during close melee combat with my Dakra P.

 

Considering the commonly low-altitude nature of Warframe enemies, I'd agree with Ja_man who said:

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say that "most levels have low ceilings". We can call a lot of low-ceiling maps to mind, of course, but simply hopping into random missions on the star chart with Excalibur makes you notice that there are loads of tiles in all tilesets, both indoors and out, that easily have enough height for Excal to make use of SJ; even if it does mean bumping his head on the ceiling every now and then. Hopping from map to map pretty much all weekend, I couldn't help but notice that the times where I was restricted from using SJ at all due to low ceilings were actually quite scarce.

Similarly, there are loads of situations in which we can make use from chaining SJ and Air Slashes together. Not as many as there are situations in which SJ can be useful in the first place, of course, but while it is situational, it's definitely not the worst offender out there. Not enough to warrant a rework for this reason, anyways. The combo is pretty applicable in the majority of rooms in just about every tileset; outdoor maps are merely where it shines the most.

 

 

As for Ja_man's post, I really couldn't disagree more. Air slashes don't invalidate Super Jump in any way because the former isn't replacing the latter. It's stacking on top of it.

Might as well say that Air Slashes are replacing Coptering, or that Coptering replaced Slash Dash. These maneuvers are all designed for different roles, but can be chained together in various ways to suit your every mobility-related need. Having access to a Super Jump before Air Slash gives Excalibur a huge edge mobility-wise over pretty much any Frame that isn't in the god-tier of mobility. Not to mention that this combo is virtually essential for Melee Excalibur to use if he wants to pull his weight along with the decked-out gun-toting Rhinos (which was incredibly difficult to do prior to U15).

 

EDIT: Sorry, rambled a bit.

TL;DR

- There are loads of situations in which Super Jump can be used, easily outnumbering the low-ceiling situations. The low ceilings are just the only ceilings you really notice ('cause, you know, they can get you killed if you don't).

- There are far more situational abilities out there. Which are widely loved by the playerbase, mind.

- Air Slashes do not replace Super Jump, because nothing's forcing you to pick one or the other. Combining the two essentially lets you fly across maps with ease (vital for melee players), and can prove to be incredibly useful in any typical map that isn't a narrow hallway. The combo sees less use in the Corpus Ships, of course, but really, the exact same thing can be said about Tailwind.

 

I'm fine with an alternate 3 being suggested, but I am not okay with any suggestion that asks Super Jump to be removed. Even if you don't find SJ to be useful, there are other players out there who do.

Edited October 29, 2014 by SortaRandom

[MichaelSD]

Super Jump is a niche ability. One could max it out and use it for some setups, but it is a compromise. You weaken Radial Blind, I will not use heavy impact, especially not with my reduced slot size, it is still situational (how much one can argue) and above mid level of not much use.

For it was useless and it remains useless.

[DSpite]

I feel super jumps usefulness had been reduced now that any frame can air attack up to most ledges. Unless you're maxing out the jump height to make extraordinarily high jumps.

 

Yea, now that everyone can air jump and copter really far distances why the hell use an ability that works slower AND uses energy? I was jumping up on ledges with the air slash attack just today. Makes me wonder if DE only tacked stun and invisibility onto Super Jump so that we would use it more in combat, because we would all use the air copter method to duplicate the ability as it was.

[MichaelSD]

As a sidenote, even before patch all abilities of Excalibur were average at best, not only Super Jump.

[tmtke]

And what if Super Jump is rewritten, and have a timeframe in which every jump you make with Excalibur has more "energy"? Jump higher, farther (with the new direction based melee "leaps"), and stronger? It would make a fine utility, having almost the same uses as before. Adding "Heavy Impact" would modify it even further.

[MichaelSD]

I do not think I would like to use up one of my slots with heavy impact. It is not that good.

[tmtke]

I do not think I would like to use up one of my slots with heavy impact. It is not that good.

 

That was just a side idea, as it is originally useful in conjunction with Excal / Super Jump, Vauban / Bounce, Zephyr / Dive Bomb, etc.

[StickyBaseline]

It works very well with Reflex guard, costs nothing and it's always there now, you're not sacrificing a slot anymore. So I think it's great.

[MichaelSD]

You tell me that use Excalibur with Super Jump moded, which goes 100% against your Radial Blind ability?

[dancingknight]

I don't understand why they made Excalibur invisible during super jump. They should just make him invulnerable during the animation.

 

Even better, if they insist on maintaining super jump in his arsenal, I'd hope that they could just convert it into a jet pack so pressing 3 would turn on the jet pack and it would function exactly like jet packs in Halo. The moment 3 is no longer pressed, the jet is turned off. 

 

This hopefully would make the ability no longer require power strength which is affected negatively when you are maximizing radial blind. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by dancingknight

[Iacon]

Excalibur needs a serious rework/love/rebalancing badly, but WELL DONE THIS TIME, PLEASE, he is the face of warframe, but he is one of the worst warframe, OP is brutally right, sadly, he should be the perfect combination between powerful(not overpowered) and versatile and balanced in every way, he was cool in closed beta, he was my favorite, but now... I don't want to die because my useless status symbol (excalibur prime) has a bad mix of powers and stats makes him almost useless and weak

[Reaver_X]

The biggest problem with super jump is: You need power strength. WIithout pwr-str, it isn't even able to shortcut some basic rooms in Void.

 

Since the Javelins didn't do good before the update, most people screwed everything using strenght and just opted for blind bro builds.

 

Personally I like playing Excalibur WITH superjump. I use him with Blind Rage and he's doing fine in all missions, except longer survivals or defenses. Because at a certain point, he loses all his effectiveness.

 

But that's a problem, nearly all damage based frames have (looking at you, Ember).

 

On the other hand, like I said, I'm doing fine otherwise, so I dunno.

 

The exception being ash....give ember that kinda crazy damage and she'll easilly be good.

[tris1]

i can now say that i find radial blind to be situational now, with all the obstacles and such its no longer a oh S#&$ button all the time. you can miss a few enemies that can be directly next to you but behind a little column or obstacle making it still dangerous to use. i dont mind that it should not go through walls or doors but im still seeing to many being not being blinded that can be directly near me. i understand thats how it is meant to work i still dont think it works right compared to so many other skills that can do better

[SIDESTRE4M]

The exception being ash....give ember that kinda crazy damage and she'll easilly be good.

 

Depends... I use ember with... 90% pwr-str if I remember correctly... Maybe I'm just a bad Ember player, I still only user her for fun, not serious stuff.

Same as Excal. I don't hesitate using him for T4, but not survival and not defense.

 

For CC I rather play Vauban.

[DSpite]

I don't understand why they made Excalibur invisible during super jump. They should just make him invulnerable during the animation.

 

Even better, if they insist on maintaining super jump in his arsenal, I'd hope that they could just convert it into a jet pack so pressing 3 would turn on the jet pack and it would function exactly like jet packs in Halo. The moment 3 is no longer pressed, the jet is turned off. 

 

This hopefully would make the ability no longer require power strength which is affected negatively when you are maximizing radial blind. 

 

Invisibility will, for example let a Flux Rifle mob lose tracking and aim at someone else (the most noticeable). Invulnerability means the beam stays on you until you land and starts doing damage as soon as you do.

 

Ability to Double Jump would, however, be nice. I've noticed that since getting the new Borderlands, I'm constantly trying to double jump and it's not working :)

[Azawarau]

Run transient fortitude and stretch with no narrow minded ro overextended

 

You have a far reaching RB thall cover your needs

 

Slash dash is useless as always

 

Super jump ive actually come to really enjoy

 

The utility is fairly high

 

RJ i can agree is really low in damage

 

The big issue here is people still overextend RB when they should be trying to balance between powers

[Eric1738]

 

The big issue here is people still overextend RB when they should be trying to balance between powers

imo overtended RB is outdated and stretch is enough for current RB, since enemies far away now wont be affected anyway.

[SanguineSavant]

If I recall correctly one of the Devs said Excal's abilities were designed around some stuff from Ninja Gaiden. I suppose Super Jump kind of has that, but overall I can't disagree that for a physical starter frame and posterboy for the game - he is still not what he should be.

[MichaelSD]

If I recall correctly one of the Devs said Excal's abilities were designed around some stuff from Ninja Gaiden. I suppose Super Jump kind of has that, but overall I can't disagree that for a physical starter frame and posterboy for the game - he is still not what he should be.

 

And this.

 

@Eris1738

That is fine if I solo, in a group I can not contribute to team any of his abilities now.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MichaelSD

[Eric1738]

^he is a weaker team player for sure, but radial javelin and radial blind still has good range with stretch. and if super jump is changed to duration related. we can put overextended back with no problem.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Eric1738

[Latronico]

Today I was thinking about unite Super Jump and Slash Dash in a single mobility ability that allow to go in any direction, damaging all enemies encountered.

So we could have only 1 versatile abilty, and space for a new ability, maybe a personal+team buff as a lot of other Frames have (Warcry, Roar and so on).