Survival Changes (For Ships)

[Renegade343]

Hello all, 

 

This thread will detail a few changes to the Survival Missions in ship tilesets to make it be up to (or at least close to) par with Excavation missions. The content is below: 

 

DE(L) has now changed all Survival Missions on planet tilesets to Excavation Missions, in which players have to locate dig sites and continuously supply energy to the scanners and the diggers (and the power cells do drop by quite a nice amount too, so at least that RNG aspect is really not that as profound). This is quite a fun mission, as there is no need to rush around looking for oxygen supply drops (and enemy oxygen drops, which is really just quite a bad RNG mechanism at times). 

 

However, Survival Missions have not changed despite the new gamemode, and when comparing it to its (loosely defined) cousin Excavation Missions, Survival Missions feel a bit poorly designed in hindsight (mainly from heavy reliance on RNG oxygen supply and supply canister drops from enemies). Thus, to make it be less reliant on RNG, the Survival gamemode will be changed as thus: 

 

Instead of having Life Support Canisters (that drop less and less frequently in the current iteration of Survival and reliant on RNG at times), the Lotus will instead locate a Control Console every 30 seconds or so (to a maximum of two Control Consoles located at one time), and will set a waypoint to those Control Consoles. When the players approach the Control Console, and successfully hack into it, the Life Support percentage drain will be stopped for 15 seconds or so (as though hacking the scrubbers to work for a bit to provide breathing gases). 

 

The enemies will not drop Life Support Modules, but instead, a new enemy is made, known as (Insert Grineer or Corpus) Supply Carrier. These will spawn at a rate less than the Power Carriers, but still enough to be seen at a semi-frequent rate. They would sport higher health/shields (for Corpus) (higher health/armour for Grineer), and when killed, they will drop a large Life Support Module that, when the Context button is pressed (or maybe when the player passes over it), will increase the Life Support percentage by 10% (or maybe lower, depending on the spawn rate). 

 

To compensate for this, the Life Support drain will be slightly quicker, meaning it will drain from 100% to 0% in around two minutes.

 

Please note that this is a rough draft, and will change over time. 

 

With this change, this should allow Survival to have less RNG layers attached to it, while still keeping its core gameplay. 

 

Please take the time to read this thread, and provide constructive criticism and feedback. 

 

Renegade343

[[DE]Saske]

Rather then trying to change to existing game mode to something completly different, i would try to fix survival. Actually [DE]Glen, some other players and i where doing this for the last month.

 

First of all the big air support canisters don't spawn with rng, they spawn after every x seconds, if you already have one the next one will spawn after x seconds + y (but y is so small that it doesn't realy matter).

 

However the personal life support is effected by rng, but got fixed in one of the past hotfixes, so it should be fine now .

 

U15 changed how spawns in survival work, so enemies spawn more logical now and don't get stuck in sleeping tiles anymore and after some testruns this was a hugh inprovement. 

 

The only problem right now is maybe the map generation, because you see a lot of red doors on those maps, where technically a monster closed could spawn (void got that threadment already, all the other maps still need it).

 

All in all my opinios is to rahter improve survival, then changing it to something completly different.

[Renegade343]

First of all the big air support canisters don't spawn with rng, they spawn after every x seconds, if you already have one the next one will spawn after x seconds + y (but y is so small that it doesn't realy matter).

'y' increases (and I think exponentially) over time, and it becomes noticeable. 

 

However the personal life support is effected by rng, but got fixed in one of the past hotfixes, so it should be fine now .

It is still temperamental at the end of the day. On one mission, there seems to be a Supply Module party, and then the next few missions, it becomes a famine (and then the mission after becomes another party). I really prefer just bringing over the Excavation Power Carriers (and their spawn mechanism, with a few tweaks for Survival) over, instead of having to sometimes pray for Life Support drops (at least the Excavation Power Carriers spawn rate is more constant than Life Support Drops). 

 

All in all my opinios is to rahter improve survival, then changing it to something completly different.

To be honest, Survival looks a bit dated compared with Excavation. If this were a business, I would instead remake and repackage the whole Survival thing to make it be new and hopefully regain its fun elements. 

[[DE]Saske]

'y' increases (and I think exponentially) over time, and it becomes noticeable. 

 

 We check the code and if i remember correctly it does not.

 

 

To be honest, Survival looks a bit dated compared with Excavation. If this were a business, I would instead remake and repackage the whole Survival thing to make it be new and hopefully regain its fun elements. 

 

Like i said thats an opinion, i like how survival is right now, so you can't realy argue about it.

 

Edit: Middle part makes sence btw^^

Edited October 30, 2014 by Saske92

[Renegade343]

 We check the code and if i remember correctly it does not.

What code? Show me the proof. 

[[DE]Saske]

What code? Show me the proof. 

 

lol only DE employees can see that..

Edited October 30, 2014 by Saske92

[Renegade343]

lol only DE employees can see that..

You did say 'we' just then, which implies that you have access to the code (or maybe even memorised it). So, I would like to see that code. 

[[DE]Saske]

You did say 'we' just then, which implies that you have access to the code (or maybe even memorised it). So, I would like to see that code. 

 

Sry that was a missunderstanding then, i just was on rc with somebody who could check it and he told us. You abd me can't see that.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Sry that was a missunderstanding then, i just was on rc with somebody who could check it and he told us. You abd me can't see that.

 

I'd actually like someone to perform some tests to see what much 'y' actually increases by, that way we can tell if it is a large amount rather than us thinking it is, because like you said we can't see the code

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by Ninjaboy00

[Renegade343]

I'd actually like someone to perform some tests to see what much 'y' actually increases by, that way we can tell if it is a large amount rather than us thinking it is, because like you said we can't see the code

 

I can run some tests over the weekend. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

IMHO one of the largest improvements about Excavation over Survival is that there is no timer counting down constantly

 

I feel like DE should save that kind of thing for Nightmare mission mutators and/or the classic "the ship's reactor is going critical, you have xyz time to get out" (one of my previous ideas for changing survival actually revolved around this concept actually, hacking terminals and/or a cooling rod terminal to slow the process)

 

I really think the biggest problems with Excav AND Surv is that DE is obsessed with putting the drops on the mobs

 

it would make a lot more sense if the enemies tried to DEFEND a specific tile that had the power cores (ie more interactive terrain objects), then the tenno would have to go get some cores, then transport them back to the extractors and the scanner, or the lotus could deliver supply drops and the tenno would have to get to the supplies to grab some and/or defend it until the enemies destroyed it

 

it was always silly that in Surv the enemies cut off the life support, but then instead of locking you in to die, they send troops after you, carrying life support =/, Excav is similar in that they run at you carrying the power cores that you need, it's just silly and makes no sense

[DrBorris]

Why not completely remove RNG from survival? Lets make Survival about actually distracting the enemy and make it a bit less monotonous. 

 

 

Now for the very detailed description of the basic concept.

You enter a mission and are told by the Lotus that there are valuable items aboard this vessel and that she needs to gain access to the system mainframe in order to find their location. Just like Mobile Defense, there will be the data mass for you to pick up and take to the system mainframe. After you insert the data mass (could be in the spawn room, or maybe have it be like Deception) the main part of the mission will continue.

• This is basically the same as what we currently have, the only difference is that you insert a data mass instead of triggering the alarms. The difference is only there to make the whole concept of the mission make sense.

 

Next, the Lotus will tell you that the (Insert Faction Here) are aware of her presence in the mainframe and she needs you to distract the enemy’s resources away from her. This is where you trigger the alarm.

• The first part of the mission is now split up into two parts mostly for logic’s sake.

 

Here come the real changes. A set number of enemies will then spawn, not a RNG number, there will be a predefined number (probably based on level of mission, faction, and tile set). That number of enemies WILL SPAWN, no matter how your cell is divided, that number of enemies will spawn.

• I think you can tell that this is here to remove RNG from the mix, you will see later why I insist so much on a pre-set number.

 

A percentage bar will then come up and be labeled “Distraction Level.”  It will start at 20% and decrease 1% every 3 seconds. Every time you kill an enemy the percentage will rise 1%. For every 3 enemies killed, 5 enemies will spawn. When the percentage hits 0%, the Lotus will tell you that the (Insert Faction Here) have kicked her from the system and that there is nothing else you can do (So you proceed to extract)

• If you did not notice, there is no RNG there, everything is a definitive reaction to your action. Spawn rooms in this example are defined as rooms that are adjacent to a room you are in (given that there are no open doors). If there is only one available spawn room, every enemy will spawn in there and create a massive horde. If there are 10 spawn rooms open, they will all be distributed evenly among them. The 5 spawns for every 3 kills is to ensure that it is possible to increase your percentage and increase the difficulty as you kill more.

 

In this concept, you are the Tenno operative. Every 5 minutes the lotus will find an artifact and mark it on your map. In order to obtain that artifact you must go and get it (The Louts is in the computer, how is she supposed to do that for you)

Stuff for mission variety and balancing

The enemy factions are not stupid, they understand that they need to have as many resources as necessary in order to remove the Lotus from their system. However, a bunch of Tenno aboard their ship is a more imminent threat. So, the enemy will release a mini boss enemy. These enemies are there in order to distract you. Having a high damage enemy running around is a bad idea thus it is necessary that you take care of it. On the downside, when you focus on the mini boss, less normal grunts are getting killed, causing the distraction level to fall. I imagine these mini bosses like Krill and Vor (Small (Size) bosses that take time to deal with), actually… having Krill show up would make sense as he is the war hero (Maybe just a student of Krill). This will only happen if your Distraction level hits 100%, it is the enemy’s way of counteracting you and attempting to balance the playing field.

• This is here to make survival less monotonous, scattered boss fights will add difficulty and make the mission more interesting. Also, they are a good way to counteract you from locking your Distraction level at 100%. This is a new strategic difficulty, rather than mutilating hordes of enemies mindlessly, it might makes sense to have some restraint in order to prevent a boss fight.

 

If the enemy has a way to adjust the balance, so should the Tenno. So, every 10 minutes OR any time you fall under 10% (with a 3 min cool down) the Lotus will give you a side objective. I will make this clear now THESE ARE NOT NECESSARY, you only do these if you want a boost in distraction or want to do something different. There are two side objectives that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

The first is for you to disable the life support (yeah, I know, ironic). If I were a (Insert Enemy Faction), I would be very distracted if someone suddenly deactivated the life support. No life support will last for 3 minutes and cause the distraction level to stop decreasing, giving you a great opportunity to increase it. However, there is no life support so you will be losing 2% shields ever second (it is not a punishment in that you are losing shield as it is for preventing shields from regenerating).

• So, here is a way for the Tenno to attempt to turn the tables on the enemy, the greater the risk, the greater the reward.

 

The other option is pretty much a defense. The Lotus tells you to hack some panel that turns off the lights in the ship (time to use that flashlight). The result is the same as turning off life support in that the Distraction level stops decreasing. This will continue until an enemy gets past you to the point you ae defending and reactivates life support or 3 minutes (Whichever comes first).

• But, having a pitch black level (Windows and flashlights still provide light) will definitely add some difficulty.

 

There culd also be some destructibles provided that gives us +10 distraction and a group of heavies.

 

Your are rewarded by a bit more distraction, but then a group of heavies might wreck you.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by DrBorris