Problems With Archwing Interception

[Playford]

I'm enjoying archwing and am looking forward to it being fixed and improved.

 

But it has some problems, and they are most evident in the open space missions. Interception especially.

 

For me the #1 problem is this: enemies don't obey rules and gameplay conventions set in the regular missions.

 

We are fast and mobile, our enemies aren't.

It's such a simple thing, yet archwing ignores it completely. Enemies move at whatever speed they want to move, disregarding any speed limits Tenno are seemingly honorbound to follow. Not only that, but when I'm flying away at maximum speed I'm capable, not only can they keep up, they can actually fire at me.

I am not allowed to use my guns when I'm sprinting/boosting, but they are? What the hell?

 

When capturing interception towers enemies move freely. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended behaviour but I found it to be both a blessing and a curse. An enemy starts capturing a tower, and instead of staying near it it just flies off wherever it pleases. Sometimes it decides to fly towards me, and I can't complain there, makes it easier to destroy and to stop it from capping a tower. But sometimes it decides to fly away, far away where my Imperator autocannon does 0 damage.

I'm not kidding, on one occasion an enemy that was capturing a tower decided to go for a joyride and buggered off at a ludicrous speed and was 2000m before I could blink. I couldn't catch up because Tenno obey traffic laws apparently. I actually managed to hit it while at that distance and my hits showed up as blue zeroes.

 

Tenno take damage from impacting things, and on a few occasions I almost killed myself because I managed to get in a tight spot where I was constantly bouncing back and forth between some surfaces, my shields and health vanished almost insantly. Enemies can bounce all they please and hump asteroids all day without a care in the world.

 

One other major problem I encountered are the Hellion variants of Dargyns, and while some complain about the damage and stunlocking they can cause, I don't see that as the problem, the problem is their numbers, as long as there are 2-3 they nicely complement the other units, but when there are 5+ they are a nightmare.

 

The second problem I have is navigation and minimap, but I already made a thread about that a few days ago.

[TwiceDead]

Well, It's been a while since I found myself in complete agreement with something. 

I've got nothing to add here. 

[TheBlackFalcon03]

The Limbo quest is almost impossible for my squad!(I still haven't finished it I'm kinda nooby to it)

[StefEBear]

I have tried the Initial Limbo Theorem Mars Interception match several times. With all weapons maxed out.

If you don't have 4 top level players, you CANNOT WIN.

Not all of us can find teams of four that easily so it seems that it will be Mission Impossible to get the Limbo Warframe.

[MartinVole]

Well, there is some problem with the Dargyn Hellions: even for a low level one (lvl 5-8), to inflict 1000s of damage and fully deplete a high shield level. I have very high shields (1442) so I notice this. While realistically, a humanoid without the hull of a ship around them wouldn't stand a chance against a volley of missiles meant for ship-to-ship combat, remember that on land Tenno take this abuse quite a bit and shrug it off after mods and such. I'm saved at times just from the shields, this leaves Warframes with very little shields practically helpless. It seems to scale very dramatically when not soloing as well. People who can barely play with groups show more ease at solo. There is certainly something odd about that.

 

On the other hand I agree, enemies going warpspeed is pretty silly, chasing down mooks only to be left in their dust always left me... confused. While I understand they need to get there to cover space, the execution feels awkward. They do need to obey the same speed conventions of an archwing. Added this is what leads to them ending up stuck on the other side of the map.

 

As it stands though, I'm not too sure, last patch definitely fixed some of the big client to host issues, and I am grateful for that. And I do like the game mode, feels fresh and high energy, especially trench runs. On the other hand, though, it still feels awkward in interception. Also feels like Archwing Interceptions should give Archwing mods.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MartinVole

[TrinityPrime]

I was able to solo the mars interception for the limbo quest but that was after I transmuted the archgun electric damage mod and picked up the toxic and fire damage mods.

 

Enemies being able to accelerate faster than you is pretty damn annoying.

[Playford]

My OP has only been about things that are wrong, time to suggest fixes.

 

The AI needs to cover a lot of ground in order to keep up with Tenno and them flying around at insane speeds is one way to do it, but the current implementation is clumsy and as said before clashes with established rules.

 

The AI should obey similair speed restrictions to Tenno during normal flight, but to cover great distances (or try to escape) the AI uses a "cruise mode" which works kinda like this:

The AI points their ship at the destination, and begins charging their engines (takes ~3 seconds) and then they blast off at ludicrous speed not even the Tenno can match, but with drawbacks.

While charging their engines and during cruise mode, they can't fire their weapons and can only fly in a straight line. This should give them mobility while still being fair to players.

If this sounds familiar it's because you played Freelancer (DE_Steve, if you are reading this, go play that game).

 

When it comes to capturing points, I think it's fairly obvius the AI should stay within a certain distance of the tower much like Tenno.

 

Colliding with terrain should also destroy them. This is not just for consistency of mechanics but also as a form bug prevention (atleast temporary until it's properly fixed). Several times I had to abort my mission because an enemy got stuck on an asteroid 3000m away and trying to get close to destroy it would result in forced extraction.

I also noticed that sometimes when an enemy gets stuck on level geometry it causes ridicoulus framedrops, I go from a solid 60 down to 18 fps (my guess is the constant collisions, could be pathing attempts, maybe both). Destroying the stuck enemy fixes my framerate, but either way that shouldn't happen.

 

Hellions... either put a cap on how many can be present in a level at one time, or nerf their damage output to the ground.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Playford

[GhostZeroFour]

dont see any problem in mars arcwing mission. you just should do some runs in lowerlvl missions before (just as you dont start with a higherlvl defense mission in normal mode too) as soon as my arcwing was arround 8-10 i had no big problems in reaching wave 4 without any damage mods found so far. Maybe it is so cause i'm used to space/speedmecha games like Freespace/starlancer/Armored core and co but i rarely take enough damage to lose my shields on mars (using a nova as baseframe so my shields are quite low, with medium upgraded health+shield+maxed vigor mod i'm not even at 700 shields)  As long as you are moving and dont crash into anything those grineers have a hitrate like lowclass stormtroopers.....

 

-getting swarmed? boost backwards activate shield , shoot down enemy missled or just use flares, shoot some rounds yourself before finishing em of  with melee or blazing guns.

 

-becarefull with booster/melee arround astroids. better boost away a bit and let em follow since as soon as you hit a solid object or try to melee a highhp enemy you stumble and die pretty quick.

 

-quick strafe boosts between every salve/strike makes it hard for em to hit you.

 

-forward + boost + space(upwards) while looking in a 45° angle downwards to the direction you want to fly makes you slightly faster.

 

-melee boost works even if hold by tractorbeam, make use of that.

 

-watch out for blue glitter, you can see mods across several miles, staying in a centerpoint and watching out for it during the hunting phase helps to find some if no one marked em.

 

-dont try yourself at uranus before you have a good amount of upgrades as you're just burdening the rest of the squad (jsut as you dont do pluto missions with unupgraded gear in normal mode either.  People always try to rush new content and think they could skip the leveling phase and then complain that it's to hard, how should there ever be lategame content thisway?

 

 

 

 

Arcwing still has alot of bugs and things that need to be worked out though nerfing any difficulty out of the matches is not the way to go.

I think they should add more midlevel content so that lvling is not limited to just a handful missions, needs more diversity but that will definitly come.

but mostly they need to take a look at the bugs.

 

-moving away while capping enemies.

 

-fixing host migration interface and mapmovement problems (this one is kinda a major one, to those who havent seen it yet: if the host migrates waypoint indicators like capturepoints get multiplied as do maptilesets leading to having 8 or more capturepoints (waypoints and ingame satelite tilesets) though only 4 of em working but you only see wich when you are there. in addition the new "real" cappoints get shifted to diffrent locations so cap points might be over 4000m away from each other after hostmigration and staying at a faroff one might lead to emergency extraction if the game trys to fix it after waveend.

 

-enemies getting stuck in tiles though i know they already work at that one and made it better already alot though it still happens from time.

 

-adding a short invunerability while spawning so if you enter a mission lateron you dont die before fully loaded

 

-some skills seem to not work from time to time(enemies sometimes shoot through your shield with normal guns) or not at all (vent) or not as intended (atleast i dont think it is intended that repell sometimes pushes enemies away by over 2000m)

[DeMeritus]

Obviously shooting at the enemies in space will have damage fallof, because of air resistance causing bullets to slow down, and... wait... we're in space.

 

Why exactly are we getting damage falloff with weapons?  There's no air resistance.

 

Oh wait.  I know!  Grineer genetic degradation.  And... an orokin did it.  Yeah.

 

Seriously.  Why is there damage falloff?  It makes no sense.

[GhostZeroFour]

Obviously shooting at the enemies in space will have damage fallof, because of air resistance causing bullets to slow down, and... wait... we're in space.

 

Why exactly are we getting damage falloff with weapons?  There's no air resistance.

 

Oh wait.  I know!  Grineer genetic degradation.  And... an orokin did it.  Yeah.

 

Seriously.  Why is there damage falloff?  It makes no sense.

 

 

mhh we are fighting in an astroid field. with tons of astroid fragments/dust arround  maybe that blocks the projectiles to a point at which they are to slow to deal damage or block it totally.  but i think it's more about they dont want someone camping at one corner of the map and sniping enemies everywhere.... or they want to give sniperrifles an bigger advantage by making non damagefall off exclusive to em when they get introduced....

jut the thoughts of a wandering ghost.

[Playford]

@GhostZeroFour

 

I'm not an idiot, I spent a lot of time in low level missions scanning enemies, levelling gear, collecting mods and so on. I also spent an unhealthy amount of time playing Freelancer/Starlancer/X, I have friggin flightstick too few games today give me an excuse to bring out (when I eventually upgrade from PotatoPC™ Star Citizen will be mine). I can solo Uranus until wave 4 with no problem.

 

None of those things change the fact that enemies don't obey the rules set by the game.

[GhostZeroFour]

@GhostZeroFour

 

I'm not an idiot, I spent a lot of time in low level missions scanning enemies, levelling gear, collecting mods and so on. I also spent an unhealthy amount of time playing Freelancer/Starlancer/X, I have friggin flightstick too few games today give me an excuse to bring out (when I eventually upgrade from PotatoPC™ Star Citizen will be mine). I can solo Uranus until wave 4 with no problem.

 

None of those things change the fact that enemies don't obey the rules set by the game.

 

so read to the end and you see that i admit too that there are still alot of bugs and points where enemies don't obbey rules. i just listed things first where that isnt a point mostly directed at those who posted after you who added stuff to the complains that was not bugged nor rule disobeyment.

[JoMenton]

sorry guys but i cant follow you i am Mrank 14 playing Warframe aalmost 1,5 year

i have leveled Archwing weapons buyed the most value mods but in second wave

failed and have maded only 2 first wave wins in 10 missions

so i decid to abort Johnnie Walker Theorem

 

its obvious that i am not a good player to soloing 4 waves instead of

i am playing the last 30 years games

Edited November 3, 2014 by JoMenton

[Liminal]

I absolutely agree, also: enemies capturing a point should have to stay within range of said point, if they are pushed away they should stop capping immediately.

[Kalenath]

sorry guys but i cant follow you i am Mrank 14 playing Warframe aalmost 1,5 year

i have leveled Archwing weapons buyed the most value mods but in second wave

failed and have maded only 2 first wave wins in 10 missions

so i decid to abort Johnnie Walker Theorem

 

its obvious that i am not a good player to soloing 4 waves instead of

i am playing the last 30 years games

 

I am not saying you are bad. The game has some SERIOUS bugs atm.

 

But its mainly a grind to find the mods, then you can do better. I still remember the first week a I played until I REALIZED I COULD mod my gear. Ouch, that memory stings...

 

Unfortunately,. the drop tables for Archwing are so diluted with the other mods that is just isn't funny. I got more Ammo Drums from Archwing missions... AMMO DRUM!?!?!?!

 

AT LEAST GIVE ME THE PARALLAX SCOPE OR SOMETHING... sheesh...

 

 

I absolutely agree, also: enemies capturing a point should have to stay within range of said point, if they are pushed away they should stop capping immediately.

 

That would be nice, yes.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Kalenath

[TrinityPrime]

Also, the interception missions are actually really easy if you go solo instead of with a group.  With a group it's like enemies have 0 cooldown on their scripted respawn, it gets pretty brutal for limbo and uranus interceptions.

[Azawarau]

Space interception needs work