Archwing: Corvas, Velocitus And Dual Decurion (Updated 12/4/2014)

[Vadrigos]

I think we can all agree that while DE did a fine job with the Archwing Melee weapons, they totally bungled their attempts at giving us guns to use as alternatives to the Imperator. 

 

Let's look at the facts: first the Velocitus, newest addition alongside the Rathbone (I'm overjoyed  to go all Thor on my enemies with that thing). The Velocitus is an epic-looking rail-gun. Of course, I say 'rail-gun', because that's what its description inevitably leads me to presume it is. The only other weapon that launches projectiles at immense velocities using magnetic energy is a coil-gun, and that's just a slightly more efficient version rail-gun, Why then does this weapon's projectile have travel time attached, and furthermore, why does it deal only deal Magnetic damage? It's not an EMP cannon, the description makes that excessively clear, and in  space  there's no air to cause friction, meaning the bullet should be so fast as to be instantaneous and suffer zero damage falloff due to deceleration.

 

Also, why does this weapon, which one immediately presumes must fulfill the role of a space-sniper rifle, lack any kind of proper scope? It looks like it was made for rupturing the hulls of shuttles carrying Heavy Gunners and Bombards during boarding action from extreme range, so where the hell is the scope? And what is up with this terribad accuracy I'm hearing about? A space sniper with 28.6 accuracy? If a Tenno designed this, I hope they were beheaded for incompetence.

 

The solution to fixing this weapon  is simple: Take away the magnetic damage, replace it with high impact and puncture, and maybe a dash of innate punch-through, then make the projectile hitscan. Oh, and add a scope, while boosting the accuracy to Opticor levels.

 

I don't care about the charge time (which is only an issue if you're under close-range attack) or even particularly that it's hard to hit the fast-moving and erratic enemies of Archwing mode with long-distance shots (again, only an issue if they're focusing on you. Velocitus should be a sort of support weapon, used to pick off enemies at a distance where they pose minimal threat. One potential use could be to aid in Interception, with one player drawing the attention of multiple enemies around a single transmitting platform while a player maybe half-way between one platform and another helps thin the herd from a distance.)

 

The other culprit in this sordid affair, the Corvas, has some equally pressing issues. Firstly, it's a shotgun, in space. I cannot describe  how stupid that concept is. Shotguns are built for medium to close range combat, dealing heavy damage with every trigger-pull. However, the enemies tough enough to warrant such firepower are few and far-between (I'm looking at you, Ogma and Gox), and space is vast, truly and utterly enormous, making closing the distance with the target for the gun to be useful a chore. By the time you're close enough to use the thing, and have it charged, you could've probably killed your target twice over with a souped up melee weapon.

 

Corvas is described as a 'Flak Cannon'. I don't know if DE was thinking of Unreal Tournament's Flak Cannon, but in case they were, I'd  like to point out to them that real Flak Cannons don't work like that. Yes, essentially, the UT version and real version both work as area-denial weapons.The UT version however is geared to be most effective in close quarters and choke points where the shrapnel ricochets around and turns a narrow passageway into a blender.There are no narrow passages in Archwing, not even in the Trench Run levels. Real Flak Cannons are often deployed in groups, and fill the sky with shells equipped with either proximity or timed fuses, which turn the sky into a meat-grinder for any air-craft, or space-craft for that matter, attempting to enter the restricted zone. 

 

With this in mind, my idea to renovate Corvas for usefulness is simple: Keep the charge-time, but make it like the Drakgoon's charge, where it chooses how wide or concentrated you want your shot to be. Releasing the trigger fires a spray of shells (keeping the shotgun-aspect), which behave  more like Angstrum's rockets, dumb-fire projectiles that explode in the proximity of or upon impact with an enemy or obstacle. This would render the need for falloff damage (which doesn't make sense anyway given there's no falloff to be had in space where there's no friction or gravity to slow the projectile) a moot point, the only falloff being based on how far an enemy is from the blast zone of one of the shells. The weapon would need to deal Slash/Puncture (for shrapnel), Impact (for being hit by the shell itself) and Blast damage (for the explosion).

 

I really hope DE reads this. I want these weapons to be useful, I really do. They would add diversity and action to the majesty of Archwing, and if they don't, all they're doing is making sure that content that I have no doubt they slaved over getting modeled and implemented will always be second choice to our Imperator miniguns.

 

Thoughts, opinions? Post below and tell me.

 

EDIT: So it appears DE has no interest in listening to people with good ideas, only people with frivolous new content they can release and forget about. That won't stop me from posting this idea to renovate the Dual Decurion though:

 

My idea here is simple. Keep the recoil, but enlarge the magazine size, then buff the damage a wee bit and, here's the important part, add an inherent multi-shot ability. This way, it will be weaker than Imperator, but at the same time, allow us to cover twice as much area when firing. What it has to be basically is a fast and nasty bullet-hose, faster than Imperator but weaker, and yet capable of unleashing lead rain on a larger set of targets.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Vadrigos

[Brimir]

The Corvas is also apparently broken: charging it appears to do nothing. Even if we don't get what the the OP is suggesting (+1 for that idea) it needs to be fixed.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Brimir

[democrator]

i would like velocitus to become a space sniper with no travel time as you mentioned. it just makes more sense (since its a rail gun) than what it is currently now. nice points!

Edited November 18, 2014 by democrator

[Arlayn]

how about... NOOOOOOO. I like the elemental feel because you can add more elements for OVER 1500 DAMAGE!!! The most damage in the game for archwing weapons. Then fly into combat, and rapid fire that thing like a machine gun tearing enemies apart at high speeds in combat! Also all it really needs is a scope, and for the red aiming reticules to still be there when aiming, AND faster travel time.

 

Although I will agree the Corvas is awful in every which way possible... Still have no idea what is the right way to use it without dying...

Edited November 18, 2014 by Arlayn

[GhostSwordsman]

*is still trying to get velocitus parts to drop off of venus and mars exterminates instead of morphic transformer*

 

 

Edit: otherwise, I agree. From what I've heard about the weapons, their functionality doesn't fit their descriptions.

Edited November 18, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[Weidro]

id like to have a little moe realism like this in space

and i talked with a few friends over the same problem especialy the traveltime and the not working corvas talking about adjusting the spread

i realy like ur idea and hope it gets some respect

[Nopy117]

This post is very good, lots of great points +1

DE plz read :D.

[Thanatoasty]

Velocitus DEFINITELY needs a scope, and zero travel time (in the very least, clear indication of how fast the bullet is traveling with respect to my target so I can try to lead my shots), and a dash of punchthrough would definitely not hurt. Also, when velocitus rounds hit, I feel it should have a small (<5 meter) explosion radius) so we have a bit of aiming leeway. 

Otherwise, good job OP, you summed up the problems very nicely, +1 for you.

[Vadrigos]

how about... NOOOOOOO. I like the elemental feel because you can add more elements for OVER 1500 DAMAGE!!! The most damage in the game for archwing weapons. Then fly into combat, and rapid fire that thing like a machine gun tearing enemies apart at high speeds in combat! Also all it really needs is a scope, and for the red aiming reticules to still be there when aiming, AND faster travel time.

 

Although I will agree the Corvas is awful in every which way possible... Still have no idea what is the right way to use it without dying...

 

Well I just can't work out the reason for the magnetic damage. Railguns don't do magnetic damage. Now maybe if they changed the description so it said 'Fires shield disrupting slugs', that'd make sense and we could keep the magnetic damage, but otherwise... :/

 

 

Velocitus DEFINITELY needs a scope, and zero travel time (in the very least, clear indication of how fast the bullet is traveling with respect to my target so I can try to lead my shots), and a dash of punchthrough would definitely not hurt. Also, when velocitus rounds hit, I feel it should have a small (<5 meter) explosion radius) so we have a bit of aiming leeway. 

Otherwise, good job OP, you summed up the problems very nicely, +1 for you.

 

Thank you, though I don't know about the explosion. The point of a sniper rifle is precision. While I agree that I am as frustrated as everyone by the erratic and quick movements of Archwing enemies, I think the solution there is some kind of aim-assist mechanism for all weapons. Also, the missile ability of the Odonata could use a means of telling us when we're in range for it to be effective...like maybe the red markers would turn yellow if the Archwing had a lock on them...

Edited November 18, 2014 by Vadrigos

[Vadrigos]

bump

[akira_him]

The Corvas should work like the force gun in dead space

Velocitus is good if the bug of the inaccurate crosshair is fixed because it is in fact an archwing version of latron

[GhostZeroFour]

i think all the velocitus needs to make it usefull is a trade of accuracy/projetile stats with the imperator. give the heavy machinegun the projectilespeed and low accuracy and the velocity hitscan+100.0 accuracy, add a scope and i'm fine with it...

 

I think the mainproblem of the 2 later ranged weapons in AW is that the Imperator is just to good. (who needs a sniper if you can pick of targets 2km away with your machinegun way easier? no problem with missing shots thanks to the firerate and infinite ammo and if modded up more than enough damage to even do it to higherlvl enemies....

 

Weakening enemies in closerange to finish em of in a single meleestrike? again the Imperator does usually better than the Corvas as it has to low bullet density to effectivly attack multiple targets nor the magsize/firerate(thx to akward chargemechanic that slows down refirespeed) to quicky shoot in closecombat.

heck if want to fight single enemies in closecombat the melee weapon is the better choice in any way (even against melee heavy ogmas....)

[Vadrigos]

The Corvas should work like the force gun in dead space

Velocitus is good if the bug of the inaccurate crosshair is fixed because it is in fact an archwing version of latron

The trouble is, with it's awkward charge mechanic and limitation to close-range-only effectiveness, Corvas is totally overshadowed by any of the Archwing melee weapons. And furthermore, the Latron is a DMR. Tell me, what good is a Designated-Marksman Rifle in SPACE?! Hm? Why in Hayden's name would we need something like that? Imperator pretty much solves any problem at medium range you have right now. There's just no point.

 

Imperator is our on-the-go combat gun, Velocitus should be our SNIPER RIFLE, not an attempt at another on-the-go combat gun.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Vadrigos

[fatpig84]

Corvas should just be changed to a full automatic flak cannon with a 50 to 80 round drum.
It is already badly affected by it's spread, fall off makes it only worse.

 

Tighter spread and making it just full auto will help it immensely.

 

 

Velocitus should be hit scan.

And I don't really like Magnetic, I would prefer straight up electric or just all puncture.

Magnetic being a sucky element against Grineer doesn't help anyway.

[Vadrigos]

Corvas should just be changed to a full automatic flak cannon with a 50 to 80 round drum.

It is already badly affected by it's spread, fall off makes it only worse.

 

Tighter spread and making it just full auto will help it immensely.

 

 

Velocitus should be hit scan.

And I don't really like Magnetic, I would prefer straight up electric or just all puncture.

Magnetic being a sucky element against Grineer doesn't help anyway.

 

Hmmm, an automatic shotgun might work as an alternative...but only if the falloff is removed. Otherwise it's just a copy of Imperator, which would solve the same issue at the same distance. 

[Storchenbein]

how about... NOOOOOOO. I like the elemental feel because you can add more elements for OVER 1500 DAMAGE!!! The most damage in the game for archwing weapons. Then fly into combat, and rapid fire that thing like a machine gun tearing enemies apart at high speeds in combat! Also all it really needs is a scope, and for the red aiming reticules to still be there when aiming, AND faster travel time.

 

Although I will agree the Corvas is awful in every which way possible... Still have no idea what is the right way to use it without dying...

 

Magnetic is the worst element to have in archwing though... Everything is armored and nothing has enough shields to warrant a magnetic weapon yet. 

 

I have yet to make up a reason why DE keeps thinking a railgun slug does magnetic damage. It is accelerated via magnetic force, that doesn't mean that whole bullet is now magnetic. It should do a large amount of puncture and some impact damage, everything else makes zero sense with the current item description.

 

Not to mention it's utterly broken right now since the bullets spawns several meters right of the barrel and has difficulties hitting certain hitboxes like Dreg's. It needs to be hitscan. Why is a machinegun in space 100% accurate and hitscan, while a railgun that is supposed to accelerate the bullets to much higher velocities than conventional guns ever could not hitscan and not even 100% accurate. Right now this weapon is utter nonsense and broken beyond belief.

[Otakuwolf]

I wouldn't implement ALL of these changes (while i understand your point those weapos are supposed to be alternatives, not upgrades) but some ones might not hurt at all since as you mentioned there shouldn't be a projectile based weapon in a so hudge area like a space stage and a shotgun is not worth if you can destroy an enemy with a couple of melee swings (unless the shotgun actually deals more damage).

 

But I might also have a very different idea for the Velocitus that might make it more interesting to use: how about a "reversed" damage falloff (as the more far the target is, the more damage it takes when hit) ? in that case it woul be AWESOME to obliterate enemies from afar, but it would still take a lot of sniping skill considering the travel time and the distance, so it would be powerful but very worth the effort if for example you can oneshot an Ogma from (very) afar...

Edited November 21, 2014 by Otakuwolf

[Vadrigos]

I wouldn't implement ALL of these changes (while i understand your point those weapos are supposed to be alternatives, not upgrades) but some ones might not hurt at all since as you mentioned there shouldn't be a projectile based weapon in a so hudge area like a space stage and a shotgun is not worth if you can destroy an enemy with a couple of melee swings (unless the shotgun actually deals more damage).

 

But I might also have a very different idea for the Velocitus that might make it more interesting to use: how about a "reversed" damage falloff (as the more far the target is, the more damage it takes when hit) ? in that case it woul be AWESOME to obliterate enemies from afar, but it would still take a lot of sniping skill considering the travel time and the distance, so it would be powerful but very worth the effort if for example you can oneshot an Ogma from (very) afar...

 

Personally, I feel this COULD work, but only if we address the issue underlying the enemies we're already facing. Until you reach Uranus or Neptune, if you're a reasonably high-tier player, there's no enemies you can't take out with just melee. All we've currently got is a horde of quick and annoying weak enemies and one or two powerful one. What DE needs to do is get more tactical with it's enemy design. This is why the Hellion being so powerful is actually not a terrible idea. Granted, they really need a nerfing, but they're essentially fire-support units with heavy weapons. What I propose is the creation of a sort of tactcial spawning system, where instead of just spawning hordes of enemies, you create hardcore fighter wings, with one or two semi-nerfed Ogmas serving as centerpieces like heavy fighters while Dagryns, Dregs and Hellions provide support. And I don't mean just one or two Ogmas per encounter, I mean one or two for every...say 5 Dagryns in the field.

 

Regardless of the idea, the issue is both the enemies and weapons need work, but the point of the thread is weapons. And while I'll admit your reverse falloff is inventive, it just doesn't make sense. The bullet's not going to pick up speed the farther it goes...

[fatpig84]

Ogmas are not even as dangerous as swarms of Dagryns and Hellions.

They are for most of the part, too slow to engage anyone who just flies around.

 

So I don't even think a nerf is necessary.

[Vadrigos]

Ogmas are not even as dangerous as swarms of Dagryns and Hellions.

They are for most of the part, too slow to engage anyone who just flies around.

 

So I don't even think a nerf is necessary.

 

Hmm, good point. Those drill arms of those are key though, since they provide a deterrent to melee attackers, prompting the need for a gun...

[Otakuwolf]

Regardless of the idea, the issue is both the enemies and weapons need work, but the point of the thread is weapons. And while I'll admit your reverse falloff is inventive, it just doesn't make sense. The bullet's not going to pick up speed the farther it goes...

 

Because space ninjas with rocket launchers make sense ^^ ?

It's a game, it doesen't need to be perfectly realistic to be fun ^^

[Jokubas]

i think all the velocitus needs to make it usefull is a trade of accuracy/projetile stats with the imperator. give the heavy machinegun the projectilespeed and low accuracy and the velocity hitscan+100.0 accuracy, add a scope and i'm fine with it...

I think this is a key point. The problem isn't just that the Velocitus has a lot of hurdles to face in order to fulfill its supposed role, it's that it must be compared to the minigun alternative... which doesn't even have those hurdles. The Imperator might need some damage rebalancing if the other features were switched, I'm not sure, but otherwise I think that would solve most of the problems (between those two at least).

Edited November 23, 2014 by Jokubas

[Vadrigos]

Because space ninjas with rocket launchers make sense ^^ ?

It's a game, it doesen't need to be perfectly realistic to be fun ^^

 

There's a difference between perfectly realistic and suspension of disbelief. -_- This would only make sense if the Velocitus were a missile launcher (and even then I'm not sure it would make sense). It's not. It's a railgun (or so DE claims). Railguns don't fire rounds that speed up the farther they go. Regardless, it's a potentially game-breaking mechanic. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by Vadrigos

[Vadrigos]

bump

[Riot_Inducer]

+1 to these suggestions. The archwing guns really need a revision something awful.

 

The "railgun" that should fulfill the long range/anti-heavy role is completely overshadowed by the starting machine gun thanks to it's accuracy/hitscan and the magnetic damage type being weak vs armor (i.e. most archwing enemies).

 

Meanwhile the "flak cannon" is nothing but a shotgun with all the drawbacks of a terrestrial shotgun and is completely overshadowed by the fact that we have super potent auto-aim/lunging melee weapons that do a much better job of dealing with enemies in close range than the shotgun.

 

Both of these weapons need to better reflect either their descriptions or just generally be a hell of a lot more potent/user friendly if they ever hope to replace the Imperator on anyone's archwing loadouts.