So I Think The Stalker Fight Is Terrible

[Lysserd]

Let me know if I have the basic design of this fight correct.

 

 * The Stalker makes the lights flash and announces its invasion. I couldn't be buggered to tell anyone else who it's after though.

 * The target is supposed to wait for him to spawn and then run like the $&*^ens. This is because the Stalker can kill in 1 - 3 hits, or a single ability.

 * As the target runs like a headless chicken, any allies they have are supposed to take the Stalker down. Since they aren't the main target they are largely ignored.

 * Delicious blueprints

 

First of all, this is terrible. Second of all, I don't think this is the way to handle this fight whatsoever. I think the fight with the Stalker should be an intense battle that involves everyone, not a sprinting exercise followed by butt stabbing. Right now the Stalker isn't an interesting invasion, he's an annoyance and usually an unfair one at that.

 

What do I think the Stalker should be like? I think the Stalker should be a co-operative boss fight, that is challenging but not just an overbearing annoyance. I think the Stalker should:

 

 * be scaled to the highest conclave rating in the group, and the number of people in the group. Its damage and defenses should be scaled so it is slightly more difficult than a boss fight.

 * notify all players instead of just one so it's clear to everyone what's about to happen.

 * receive a heal after killing a player instead of just leaving so the fight involves everyone equally.

 * not end your run on failure.

 

The last point, I think, should also apply to any other invasions. I think that if an invasion kills your group you should all revive with minimal health and some other form of punishment. (Like losing all credits and mods collected up to that point or something.) I think if you group succeeds in the invasion any downed players should have their revive timers reset as well. Because an invasion isn't a thing you can plan for, it shouldn't punish you as harshly as it does for loosing.

 

Just my thoughts, what does everyone else think about the Stalker?

[Doforcash]

TL;DR

 

but i agree on the title, Stalker Dread is too OP for us Tenno (1 shot =1kill)

[Naftal]

Afaik, there's a red glow on the Stalker's (or other hunters) target now that can be seen by other players.

 

Any groups I play in don't have the target run around like a headless chicken, so I don't really know what you mean by that. Running away makes the fight harder, maybe it's just some groups wanting more challenge.

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

Let me just say this, grow some and take him on head to head. A boar prime takes him out so fast

[Onida_a]

Let me know if I have the basic design of this fight correct.

 

 * The Stalker makes the lights flash and announces its invasion. I couldn't be buggered to tell anyone else who it's after though.

 * The target is supposed to wait for him to spawn and then run like the $&*^ens. This is because the Stalker can kill in 1 - 3 hits, or a single ability.

 * As the target runs like a headless chicken, any allies they have are supposed to take the Stalker down. Since they aren't the main target they are largely ignored.

 * Delicious blueprints

 

First of all, this is terrible. Second of all, I don't think this is the way to handle this fight whatsoever. I think the fight with the Stalker should be an intense battle that involves everyone, not a sprinting exercise followed by butt stabbing. Right now the Stalker isn't an interesting invasion, he's an annoyance and usually an unfair one at that.

 

What do I think the Stalker should be like? I think the Stalker should be a co-operative boss fight, that is challenging but not just an overbearing annoyance. I think the Stalker should:

 

 * be scaled to the highest conclave rating in the group, and the number of people in the group. Its damage and defenses should be scaled so it is slightly more difficult than a boss fight.

 * notify all players instead of just one so it's clear to everyone what's about to happen.

 * receive a heal after killing a player instead of just leaving so the fight involves everyone equally.

 * not end your run on failure.

 

The last point, I think, should also apply to any other invasions. I think that if an invasion kills your group you should all revive with minimal health and some other form of punishment. (Like losing all credits and mods collected up to that point or something.) I think if you group succeeds in the invasion any downed players should have their revive timers reset as well. Because an invasion isn't a thing you can plan for, it shouldn't punish you as harshly as it does for loosing.

 

Just my thoughts, what does everyone else think about the Stalker?

This is how I envision the encounter. The Stalker appears and attacks the Tenno who pissed him off, but if any other Tenno in the cell engage him than the Stalker will target that Tenno as well.

Not all players run from the Stalker, for it is possible to dodge his attacks, albeit does require some skill.

 

I have no qualms with how the Stalker or other deathsquads invade a mission or the fact that if all Tenno in the cell are taken down the mission will fail. This is a risk we take as Tenno.

[Genoscythe]

The overall problem: he does too much damage and you do too much damage.

 

Damage caps suck and arent a good way to reward you for all those mods youve grinded for weeks.

 

If you deal all your possible damage (e.g. detron or bräkk) he is down in one hit, or if he has HP scaled for maximum possible damage, you wont be able to kill him with non-maximum damage weapons (braton/prime, karak and all the stuff taht isnt synapse, boltor prime, burston prime etc.)

 

His AI is exploitable, so DE made him an insta-hitting aimbot-bot-monster that disables all your skills (yeah, what did I level my Warframe for? To have my skills being useless against bosses!).

 

 

The fight needs more ways to be solved, has to be balanced better (maybe even along DPS and health values instead of conclave, I can have high conclave having carrier with uber sweeper equipped but not his attack mod, or having a good utility frame without good weapons)

 

It needs to take longer than 5 seconds to take him out, on the other side he needs to deal less damage and be fairer, no more slash proc (400 health damage per second! Didnt DE say they wanted slash/toxic be only applicable when shields are down, that was months ago, still dying from vulkar slash procs in one hit), and have a slower projectile that we actually can react to instead of strafing and rolling, hoping he doesnt hit us, no more teleport and and no more skill disable. However he could for example see invisible players when they are shooting, so he can pursue them, or charge inside a snowglobe as soon as activated, just as an example.

 

 

Basically the same goes for g3 and zanuka, g3 victims have acute symptoms of dying as soon as they spawn, without knowing why, while zanuka just jumps around and dies after a shotgun load to the face.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Genoscythe

[Ninjamander]

I do not want him to be nerf! I want him to be stronger honestly and the nerf that will allow down player to be revived make stalker a joke v.v

[Rayxen]

The stalker is supposed to be the one you run away from and I think DE did a great job with flickering lights and everything, but it's true that his damage is too high. I know it will sound weird , but I would give him the ability to stun everyone for 1.5 seconds when he appears (while he is stunned during the action too) so people can actually find him without running everywhere, it would also make people choose appropriate places to make him appear (since he will stun you, people will go away from a room filled with grineer units). Then I would make him way tankier, while reducing his damage to reasonable levels.

Everything else is ok imho.

[DSpite]

I like the way that people want an opponent to magically manage to scale in such a way that the fight will be entertaining, adapt to whatever they currently have on them, and allow them an even chance at winning regardless if they are in a fully decked out war machine or leveling a rank 20 Frame.

 

Not the way it works. It's not a duel, it's an assassination. It's bad enough he basically states "My name is Inigo Montoya", now you want him to what, fight left handed, and only switch to right hand if you happen to be on a tough Frame? What next, demand an SMS message from the Death Squads, so you know which missions they come in?

 

The only thing I would do, If I programmed the sod, would be to treat the target like the useless prey they are, and toy with them. Death by thousand cuts. Debuff them, take out shields, put a bleed on. Charge them, do knockdowns etc etc, but always within a narrow set of parameters that vary encounter to encounter.

 

Maybe this time it's all long distance and sniping, maybe the next is appear, slash you for a bleed, and vanish again, and you need to figure attack angles, maybe use all acrobatic dodges, blocking and melee attacks. If you had 20 such patterns with small variations, maybe, just MAYBE, players might NOT be able to write another "Stalker farming guide". Maybe.

 

Easy to say, hard to code, hence the problem, plus that fact that everyone idea of fun is different anyway. The current system is usable. I don't see a reason for massive changes, but some tweaks would be nice.

[Guest]

The stalker "battle" is currently one of the most awfully designed things this game has. I needs to be redone.

 

Good things I can say about the Stalker:

 

* He drops nice weapons.

* He has some interesting "lore".

* He is agile and uses abilities effectively.

 

Thinks that make the Stalker awful:

 

* He ignores everyone else in the cell but his target. The target hides/runs, the rest kill him with impunity.

* He is impossible to fight Solo because you have nobody to help you, he can always kill you in 1 to 3 hits, and he is aimbot enough to have killed me with a single Dread shot while in the middle of a high-speed copter.

* He effectively destroys what makes this game different from a regular boring shooter: the Warframes' abilities. As opposed to this, the Grustrag 3 is a good fight because they are strong BUT you can make intelligent use of your abilities to fight them. Stalker is just run-and-gun.

* He drops nice weapons. YES, this is bad because as it is now getting these weapons is yet another GRINDFEST.

* There is no actual fight. If you don't have the capacity to destroy him within 5 seconds, you're dead.

 

The devs should give the Stalker the love he deserves. Make him scale better to the cell, make his weapons not kill you within 5 seconds, make him tankier, give him more abilities that you can appropriately react to and counter, make him react better to the threats around him.

Make the Stalker a real battle, not a roflstomp on either side, and make it just as challenging with a full cell and when going Solo. This will make the Stalker stop being a bad joke.

[Arlayn]

Obviously handled stalker incorrectly. I met him in  solo mission, and mowed him down with my marelok..., and a Boltor prime...

 

Also along time ago fighting stalker used to be cool. When quick thinking was more epic I used to have straight up tactical melee duels with him that included rolling to evade hits, and getting stunned in order to continue the barrage, and then slash dashing at the same time he does where we fly past each other, and then continue the fight. It was amazingly epic due to how long you could live in a fight with him.

 

Now that quick thinking is nerfed our fights are belittled to god tier melee cutting him down in a single strike, or boltor prime him to death...

[Draciusen]

Obviously handled stalker incorrectly. I met him in  solo mission, and mowed him down with my marelok..., and a Boltor prime...

 

Also along time ago fighting stalker used to be cool. When quick thinking was more epic I used to have straight up tactical melee duels with him that included rolling to evade hits, and getting stunned in order to continue the barrage, and then slash dashing at the same time he does where we fly past each other, and then continue the fight. It was amazingly epic due to how long you could live in a fight with him.

 

Now that quick thinking is nerfed our fights are belittled to god tier melee cutting him down in a single strike, or boltor prime him to death...

 

Saying you used the Marelok and the Boltor Prime to mow down the Stalker is like saying you cut paper with an industrial-grade power saw. I'd honestly be surprised if you couldn't instagib the dude with those kinds of weapons.

[Arlayn]

Saying you used the Marelok and the Boltor Prime to mow down the Stalker is like saying you cut paper with an industrial-grade power saw. I'd honestly be surprised if you couldn't instagib the dude with those kinds of weapons.

Ceres is an ideal environment for killing Stalker... some environments are not too friendly when it comes to killing stalker...  Even with the best weapons if he pops up in a place that is hard to get around, or your not used to your screwed...

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Yeah... the whole 3 second fight thing in either or's favor is rather dull.  Can't wait for Assassins 2.0

[Zyxmax]

Lets not forget that stalker is rng meaning he spawns to some all the time and almost never to others. Until syndicates added to the game he spawned on me or on random players i was playing with all the time. If i played more than 3 mission a day he was guaranteed to spawn multiple times on that day.

 

If he was challenging and took time to kill i would have ragequit the game a long time ago.

[Donnell]

First time I killed the stalker on my own was in an Infested survival as solo. He paid more attention to the infested because they were chewing his butt; gave me time to head shot him with my bow :]

 

I felt the same way with the stalker for a long time. However I have reached a point where I've learnt when he arrives, his moves and I have powered up mods that can face him now. Although saying that, he dies in about 3 seconds now and only drops Dread.

 

With the new syndicate attacks, people are starting to group together when a mark begins. This is the same with Stalker but still, type in chat if you need help. People will gladly come shoot something stronger that drops good loot.

[GamingVirtue]

See, Stalker is no fun for one reason: there's nothing epic or even impressive about him. He can do a lot of cheap things because the designers of the game apparently forgot to teach him how to wallrun and slide and shoot from a wall-climb and generally be a freakin' ninja, and then had to cover for it because, OOOOOOO~, he's SCAAAAARRRYYYYY~.

 

But then he just kinda sits there, looking at you angrily. And if you have the same bow as him (I love the Dread because it's OP, go figure, right?) and it's modded and leveled correctly, you can literally one-shot him in the face.

 

I would know, I've done it in at least four T3 Exterminates. With a Loki, of all things. If they'd give him some basic intelligence like Zanuka has, he'd be at least minorly difficult. I mean, hell...Zanuka's so talented, it can wall-jump off of the air (j/k), and Stalker just kinda sits there like an angry nerd that doesn't know what cover is.

 

In comparison, the new Syndicate attacks, the Grustrag Three, and Harvester are all very fun enemies to face because they're challenging and not in a fake-difficulty kind of way. Well, except for Harvester and Zanuka having Dispel because that's really cheap, but otherwise, they're fun to fight because they're not the same kind of "stand in the way of Tenno gunfire" like every other enemy in the game, Stalker included.

 

EDIT: I realise the assassin squads stand around like that, but they also come out of nowhere in large groups of Eximi, so that's excusable due to their hive tactics.

Edited November 20, 2014 by VirtuousVortex

[LethalRayne]

I think Stalker is too easy personally.

[Arcane_Intelligence]

With the new syndicate attacks, people are starting to group together when a mark begins. This is the same with Stalker but still, type in chat if you need help. People will gladly come shoot something stronger that drops good loot.

 

I once was in a Syndicate mission and there was this Rhino Prime with Boltor Prime rushing through map.

Stalker was coming for me and I asked for help, "Troll Prime" ignores me and left me to die.

I refused to respawn because of his stupidity, "Well, rush this mission then because your so obsessed for doing so".

Minute later he dies, resulting in mission failure.

[Onida_a]

I once was in a Syndicate mission and there was this Rhino Prime with Boltor Prime rushing through map.

Stalker was coming for me and I asked for help, "Troll Prime" ignores me and left me to die.

I refused to respawn because of his stupidity, "Well, rush this mission then because your so obsessed for doing so".

Minute later he dies, resulting in mission failure.

This was a bit anger filled and off topic, but I can understand where it comes from.

[(PSN)atpbx]

As I have said before, the stalker should appear and your camera should auto target where he is spawning.

 

You then have the chance to see where he is and chose to fight or run.

 

Even better would be a cinematic (you have the choice to disable it in the options menu) where you face off in some space ninja posturing and get to it.

 

I dont think the stalker or the G3 are handled particularly well at the minute (certainly not for the G3 and their laughable spawn and drop rates). 

[Kruglov]

I think the way his fight functions is fine.

 

All I wish was that he was simply easier to see.

The tenno, outside of Rhino and Hydroid and Loki Prime, aren't very big. They are shorter than most grineer and a few corpus.

And that goes double for the STALKER who is basically the same size as Excalibur, who is a bit of a manlet compared to the other frames.

He's sort of the Tyrion of the Lannisters in this game. All the other frames are tall and beautiful and Exal and Stalker are short and shrimpy.

 

Which all well and good but when the STALKER appears and theres already lots of enemies nearby he is VERY hard to see.

He starts off as a black smokey particle effect that looks the same as the smoke that comes off dead enemies, only darker.

Then he vanishes.

Briefly he will appear when attacking but, being so short, one can quickly lose sight of him behind pretty much any prop in any map that isn't a brightly lit Corpus ship with no enemies around.

 

I still die to him every once in a while. And not because his fight is particularly hard and clever. But because I honestly can't see him coming.

Amongst the visual opulence of this game, he is incredibly hard to point out, despite being nearly pitch black.

Over time you grow used to how he works. You dash away to an area with as much open space as you can and whirl around looking for the black stick figure with the bow jigging angrily toward you.

 

But for new players it must be absolutely FRUSTRATING.

Because they don't KNOW what to look for.

And the Stalker has very few visual cues.

 

 

He needs some sort of special particle effect or a glow when he is visible.

Something BRIGHT.

Something like the beam of light that comes off Interception control points.

Obviously this light would only be seen when he isn't cloaked.

 

I think it would be a vast improvement.

[Haukai]

I couldn't agree more about the fact the Stalker needs a rework.
Yes, he is supposed to be an assassin, and his only purpose is to kill you, but making him a one shot machine isn't fun, fair, and particularly not interesting.
If you don't have your uber yoloswag loadout equipped, he will insta kill you with his Dread.
If you have the said gear, and you manage to see him spawning, and are quick enough to insta kill him right after he spawns, then you'll live.
There's absolutely nothing cool/good/fun/fair/interesting about this, and like someone said, even though he was underpowered before, he was fun because you could have somewhat of a fair fight, now it's just : "Instakill or be Instakilled"

[Arcane_Intelligence]

This was a bit anger filled and off topic, but I can understand where it comes from.

 

Sorry if it sounded like that, just wanted to point out that not everyone helps with Stalker etc.

 

About actual topic, yeah, it´s not fun fight when its about oneshotting each other.

[fatpig84]

He can 1 shot me, I can 1 shot him too.

Seems pretty fair though.

 

But making him easier to see will be good for newbies.

Edited November 20, 2014 by fatpig84