So, You Got Rid Of Overheat... Only To Introduce Shatter Shield...

[Vargras]

Shatter Shield only works on projectiles, and her shield is still paper-thin.

 

Infested will absolutely shred it. Same for Eximus auras and other things. It's not as strong as Overheat was.

[Azawarau]

It should be her dodging bullets instead of just absorbing them.

Thats an interesting thought

 

When an ability is too good it can be toned down. It doesn't have to be entirely removed.

Id still like  to see the 3 toned down and combined with her 4

[Ronyn]

Thats an interesting thought

In my mind this is one of those situations where the function is good but the presentation feels muddy.

A gunslinger tanking bullets is causing issues for half of the people playing mesa. they feel like it doesn't fit.

But a gunslinger dodging bullets will likely feel right to most people.

 

Id still like  to see the 3 toned down and combined with her 4

Tone down, maybe. The way it deals with bnullets is awesome but I'm still on the fence because of how melee aura sand explosions will kill her anyway. It may or may not be ok....don't know yet.

 

I don't want it combined with her 4 though. Her 3 right now lets her run and gun with whatever weapon she wants to use.

Her 4 pulls her special pistols and kills enemies in 360 degrees. 

Id rather them stay separate, I can already combine them as I wish.

[TrinityPrime]

Link is still a lot better. 75% damage mitigation + status immunity + knockdown immunity and reflects damage back to 3 targets.

 

Referencing Trinity as being greater than the one the thread is asking to nerf?  Why you do this to me?

 

:<

[Noble_Cactus]

 

 

Anyway i'm gonna agree with what was said here. Shattered shield is Mesas way to survive. Without it she would never be able to actually use her Peace Maker without being shred to pieces.

 

That's bad design in my opinion. It makes frame kits very flowchart-y when you have to have a certain ability up to make another one more useful.

[Azawarau]

Id like to say

 

Ive gone up against lvl 50ish void enemies and her 4 is perfectly viable

 

It kills before enemies get to you

 

The only ones that stand a chance are the drones and with a frost or nyx or nova.... or other frames thats not even too terrible an issue

[RexRgisIocus]

That's bad design in my opinion. It makes frame kits very flowchart-y when you have to have a certain ability up to make another one more useful.

 

Then Loki's design is equally bad. Loki without Invisibility = ded. He has no shields, no health and only Disarm has a bit of cc. I don't count Decoy since its not 100% reliable at cc.

 

Besides if you take advantage of the base 50m range on Peacemaker you don't actually need Shatter Shield to use it.

[Noble_Cactus]

Then Loki's design is equally bad. Loki without Invisibility = ded.

 

There are many who would actually agree with that point. Well, some view being able to go nigh-perma invis as bad design, at least.

 

Anyway, what I meant was that having to pop a buff in order to use another unrelated ability seemed like bad design. But if Mesa can use her 4 without having to get her bubble up, then I retract my statement.

[Azawarau]

Then Loki's design is equally bad. Loki without Invisibility = ded. He has no shields, no health and only Disarm has a bit of cc. I don't count Decoy since its not 100% reliable at cc.

 

Besides if you take advantage of the base 50m range on Peacemaker you don't actually need Shatter Shield to use it.

Loki with disarm alone is just as viable as invi loki on everything but infested

 

You literally trivialize everything that makes enemies difficult

 

What youre saying here is simply untrue

 

 

 

There are many who would actually agree with that point. Well, some view being able to go nigh-perma invis as bad design, at least.

 

Anyway, what I meant was that having to pop a buff in order to use another unrelated ability seemed like bad design. But if Mesa can use her 4 without having to get her bubble up, then I retract my statement.

You dont need it

 

Its definitely a huge safety shield for some moments but overall it isnt absolutely needed and you shouldnt let anyone lie to you and say otherwise

Edited November 29, 2014 by Azawarau

[BerelHawdos]

It's just a weak turbulence...

[Azawarau]

It's just a weak turbulence...

After the fix its much much more efficient

 

Take a look at it

[DrakeRaids]

The problem with Ember is that she is on the slower end of frames, has non-scaling damage and horrifically bad armor. Overheat helped the last one. Not she's stuck with all three.

[Azawarau]

The problem with Ember is that she is on the slower end of frames, has non-scaling damage and horrifically bad armor. Overheat helped the last one. Not she's stuck with all three.

Non scaling damage doesnt really factor in when you have the power to kill at 60 and ember has that

 

Though grineer are a huge issue

[tris1]

Yer an ability that could get her to dodge bullets would fit her better or something like she brings out phantom pistols that she uses to shot the enemy's bullets down. Damage reduction is gd but it dosent fit the theme.

Can I get a clarification of how peace maker works I'm only getting 2k Crits then 900 damage a lot and when I go to do certain levels in alerts I'm not killing everything in one go. Is it reliant on strength mods/your secondary

[BerelHawdos]

After the fix its much much more efficient

 

Take a look at it

Does it make you invulnerable to ranged attacks?

[DrakeRaids]

Non scaling damage doesnt really factor in when you have the power to kill at 60 and ember has that

 

Though grineer are a huge issue

 

You seem to be playing a different Ember then I am. Mine stops doing efficent damage post thirty, and notacable damage post forty. Sixty is pretty drastically optimistic.

[Azawarau]

Yer an ability that could get her to dodge bullets would fit her better or something like she brings out phantom pistols that she uses to shot the enemy's bullets down. Damage reduction is gd but it dosent fit the theme.

Can I get a clarification of how peace maker works I'm only getting 2k Crits then 900 damage a lot and when I go to do certain levels in alerts I'm not killing everything in one go. Is it reliant on strength mods/your secondary

Im not entirely sure

 

I was getting 10k in void with max power STR and closer to 6-8k without blind rage added

 

Though i cant remember if the 10k was with novas help or not

 

Does it make you invulnerable to ranged attacks?

It acts as a DR

 

I dont know the intricacies of it yet so thats all the info i can give you for its defensives

 

You seem to be playing a different Ember then I am. Mine stops doing efficent damage post thirty, and notacable damage post forty. Sixty is pretty drastically optimistic.

May i ask what your build is?

 

With accelerants damage boost you can get pretty far

 

Though WoF drops off around 40-45

[[DE]Momaw]

Too powerful, I don't know. But I think It's mainly because it wasn't fitting Ember's theme.

 

Except now she's nigh useless because she's only got a single defensive feature and it's a very expensive momentary stagger.  Look at all the warframes that players feel are "the best", and you'll notice that they have good defensive moves. Every frame has plenty of "O" because they all get the same three weapon slots and weapons scale amazingly high, but not every frame brings any "D".

[RexRgisIocus]

Yer an ability that could get her to dodge bullets would fit her better or something like she brings out phantom pistols that she uses to shot the enemy's bullets down. Damage reduction is gd but it dosent fit the theme.

Can I get a clarification of how peace maker works I'm only getting 2k Crits then 900 damage a lot and when I go to do certain levels in alerts I'm not killing everything in one go. Is it reliant on strength mods/your secondary

 

Ive heard it scales off of the secondary weapons. Check that out.

[TwiceDead]

Ive heard it scales off of the secondary weapons. Check that out.

 

I tested this but I got pretty much the same numbers when I was comparing between a fully modded Vasto and a fully modded Lex Prime. 

Numbers were all over the place on both attempts, from between 600 to 900 to 3k to 6k, on both secondaries. 

Not sure what to think. 

[RexRgisIocus]

You seem to be playing a different Ember then I am. Mine stops doing efficent damage post thirty, and notacable damage post forty. Sixty is pretty drastically optimistic.

 

You don't play Ember for WoF if that is what you are doing. Fireball does around 800 damage and twice that if you hit a headshot with just BR rank 7 and max Intensify (it also has a forced fire proc on the main target).

 

Accelerant is the main ability and grants any fire based damage a x5 multiplier with the BR 7/10 and Intensify. Fireblast can be used for area denial since now that its been fixed it deals damage inside the ring and has a decent proc chance (fire procs stun btw). WoF is simply there for extra DPS. You cast it and then keep shooting with your fire modded gun while using Accelerant if necessary.

 

I've done T4S with Ember Prime and a 3 forma Fire modded Phage for 45 minutes dying only once and being the top damage dealer and getting most kills. Level 60 Gunners don't last more than a second coated in Accelerant + Fire Phage.

[Azawarau]

 

Except now she's nigh useless because she's only got a single defensive feature and it's a very expensive momentary stagger.  Look at all the warframes that players feel are "the best", and you'll notice that they have good defensive moves. Every frame has plenty of "O" because they all get the same three weapon slots and weapons scale amazingly high, but not every frame brings any "D".

Her defensive  ability is a spammable stun that gives you 5x damage with power str

Edited November 30, 2014 by Azawarau

[Vargras]

Does it make you invulnerable to ranged attacks?

Nope. Just reduces the damage her shields take from projectiles. In a way, it's extra shield strength, which she sorely needs given how low they are. It also returns some of the damage dealt, but this amount is very low. Like... 5 damage returned per shot from a Grineer.

 

Note that it only affects projectiles. Melee attacks and other damage sources, like eximus auras, will bypass it.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Vargras

[Pizzarugi]

If it only counts actual bullets, it means that not only do you have to worry about melee attacks, but also Eximus auras, grapples, and all manner of explosions.

 

I don't actually have Mesa yet, though. Maybe someone who has her can share their experience?

Anything that is considered a projectile in any shape and form will apply to Shatter Shield. This can reflect Bombard rockets, Skorpion harpoons, ancient infested grapples, Vor's key laser, his mines' lasers, etc. It also applies to constant beams like Fusion Moa beams, but not beams from traps.

This, however, makes her worthless in infested missions. Shatter shield only applies to projectiles, almost all infested are melee and will obliterate her.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Vargras]

Shatter shield only applies to projectiles

This is pretty much the answer to the entire topic -- Shatter Shield only works on projectiles. Any other source of damage will completely bypass it and basically shred Mesa's already-weak shields. Overheat, in comparison, worked on everything.

 

It's why one exists and the other doesn't.