Synoid Gammacor: The New Absolute King

[democrator]

 

And, of course when the Rakta Ballistica, the Sancti Castanas, the Telos Akboltos, the Secura Dual Cestras, and the Vaykor Marelok are anywhere near the same power tier.

Based on the videos I saw, Telos Akb and VM are really good. I haven't seen any reviews on SC and SDC. RB does deserve a buff. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by democrator

[Dragon_AV]

"Oh no, this weapon is so strong, it will make the game boring"!

 

Cry me I river, If you find it boring, don't use it.

 

"But everyone else is using it"

 

Ask your party to use another weapon then. If they don't cooperate, join a clan, or switch to another clan if you are already in one. Or run solo.

 

"But...but...but PvP"

 

Who cares. You want PvP? go play one of the million PvP shooters out there. This is not a PvP game, and the fact that it has that mode does not make it one.

[Tostov]

Yea, the syndicate weapons should be made untradable unless you achieve max rank in atleast one of them, IMO.. that's a different argument though..

 

If you got to MR14, I assume you had a clan and have all the research complete. Atleast that's how it is for me. You assumed that its easier to get SG because currently, you are MR14. If you are a new players, you don't have the same affinity cap. So it takes much longer and not to mention things like - blue potato is rare (unless bought). Forma is quite easy to get but the other parts have a certain amount of RNG involved. Compared to this, spectra is easier to get which does not involve spending any plat to rush/bug anything.

As I said, there is a number of factors running around that can really affect how quickly you can get either of them. Some people don't like the idea of joining a clan and would have to grind their way through the dojo building stuff to get the spectra. Others would be invited by a friend to join a clan with all the tech pre-done, and syndicate points would be much slower to get.

But bringing how hard a weapon is to get into the equation is bad. Not completely unnecessary, no, but there's just so much wrong at times.

But ere's the issue. Lets compare between syndicate weapons. The Rakta ballistica isn't even a competitor. The sancti castanatas, while explodey, don't do nearly as much sustain, and have way, way worse ammo efficency (they do the same damage per ammo as the SG, but use the explosive ammo pool, which is like 30 rounds, about 1/7th), the VM is hitscan, and the telos boltos have better burst (even if you need a macro and super control skills to even handle it) and both rez on syndicate effect.

So then, lets compare it to the other energy weapon. The Secura dual cestras. Now, comparatively, it has a burst of about 40k. If we take the SG build from the first page, it has a burst of 47k. So its higher. Coolio, that seems pretty fine.

Its sustain is 16k. SG is 40k. Natch, wow, double.

Per round of pistol ammo, the Secura does about 970 damage (assuming we're using the same burst damage build). Per round of pistol ammo, the SG does 7299. That means that the SG is about 7.5 times more ammo efficent than the Secura dual cestras.

But, the SG has a 25m hard-cap on its range. Now then, with a rate of fire of 40.25, high recoil, and travelling projectiles, along with non-pinpoint accuracy, you are not going to land even 30% of rounds on a target further out than 25m with the secura dual cestras, and if you can, so what, you just wasted half of you ammo doing one third of the damage, which even in best situations, would then be a third of the output of the SG.

Oh, also, Secura dual Cestra, 3.5 second reload speed, SG? 2 seconds.

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tostov

[RiouHotaru]

The range cap on the SG still means things have to be close enough to you to be a threat to be able to hit them, and without punchthrough you're hitting them one at a time.  The Castanas may have worse ammo economy but I can hit more targets with them.  Cestras have a better range.  Marelok, blah blah blah.

 

Basically yes, it's not in dispute that in terms of theoretical DPS the SG is king.  But in terms of practical application it's definitely got it's limits.

[SwiftPotato12]

Your using an Impact mod in your build.

general rule of thumb, sell your Impact Puncture and Slash mods, they don't work in this game.

only the 120% event IPS mods add any meaningful damage, and only on a very few weapons vs a specific faction.

I've heard this before, and while it is valid on some weapons others it is not. If I'm getting 1000 impact damage with that + reg damage mods versus 500 impact with just regular damage mods it is most definitely necessary. Its not elemental damage but its another chunk of damage in less space.

[Tostov]

The range cap on the SG still means things have to be close enough to you to be a threat to be able to hit them, and without punchthrough you're hitting them one at a time.  The Castanas may have worse ammo economy but I can hit more targets with them.  Cestras have a better range.  Marelok, blah blah blah.

 

Basically yes, it's not in dispute that in terms of theoretical DPS the SG is king.  But in terms of practical application it's definitely got it's limits.

Practicality argument works for V mirelock. Sort of works for sancti castanas. Falls apart completely SD cestras and R ballistika, neither of which have punch-through either.

You know whats not practical? 7.75 seconds of spray everywhere that does less damage than a pinpoint accurate weapon.

[ObviousLee]

why do people get so upset when toys get stronger?

 

whats more insane than balance is not needed mindsets, is the my shiney got hurt because new toy mentality.

 

i've said this thousands, upon thousands of times: unless, upon the release of a new item, or a buff to a new item an older item is nerfed, then it doesn't take away your shinies.

 

if the weapon is one shotting god fresh out the foundry, it needs a retooling. if it takes you a damned decent time to farm it legit, it could be fine, providing it's not one shotting god fresh out the foundry.

 

look, if a weapon is over powered i can understand a nerf being necessary, but this whole my burston prime is useless because braton prime thing.......is just childish.

 

so, unless say the brakk was nerfed upon release of the new gammacore, then no, things could be fine.

 

some of you, not all of you, often come across like this.

 

edit: so stop it.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ObviousLee

[CaptainJohnson]

It's got really solid damage for what it is. I think other weapons should probably get buffed a little harder than they have been, but for the Synoid Gammacor's cost, it seems reasonable. I wish it was a bit more obtainable and that the other weapons (like the Ballistica) got a similar buff, but still. I actually think the Synoid Gammacor's stats may not have been completely thought-out, but I think there are elements that balance the weapon.

 

I don't think it needs a heavy nerf by any means, but a small one may be necessary. Meanwhile, other Syndicate secondaries could definitely use stronger buffs.

[SwiftPotato12]

Rather than complaining about this buff and calling for a nerf, I say we are due another buff. In comparison to Synoid Gammacor, Rakta Ballistica is dwarfed. In addition to that it isn't much of a change from the regular ballistica except for the change from puncture to impact.

[Tostov]

why do people get so upset when toys get stronger?

 

whats more insane than balance is not needed mindsets, is the my shiney got hurt because new toy mentality.

 

i've said this thousands, upon thousands of times: unless, upon the release of a new item, or a buff to a new item an older item is nerfed, then it doesn't take away your shinies.

 

if the weapon is one shotting god fresh out the foundry, it needs a retooling. if it takes you a damned decent time to farm it legit, it could be fine, providing it's not one shotting god fresh out the foundry.

 

look, if a weapon is over powered i can understand a nerf being necessary, but this whole my burston prime is useless because braton prime thing.......is just childish.

 

so, unless say the brakk was nerfed upon release of the new gammacore, then no, things could be fine.

 

some of you, not all of you, often come across like this.

 

edit: so stop it.

And what's wrong with that sort of attitude towards something new released?

The exact same thing happened right on release, with the gammacor being completely worse than 4 of the six weapons, and pretty much on tier with the other. Now its literally the best general purpose weapon in the game.

Why then, can't all of the syndicate weapons have comparable performance?

The thing is, in terms of balancing them, cutting down the tallest stalk is much easier than growing the rest up to its level.

Edits incoming, so stay tuned.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tostov

[ObviousLee]

And what's wrong with that sort of attitude towards something new released?

The exact same thing happened right on release, with the gammacor being completely worse than 4 of the six weapons, and pretty much on tier with the other. Now its literally the best general purpose weapon in the game.

Why then, can't all of the syndicate weapons have comparable performance?

The thing is, in terms of balancing them, cutting down the tallest stalk is much easier than growing the rest up to its level.

whats wrong, is the "my x weapon, still having the same specs as prior to release of new toy, is now useless because of y reason even though no changes have been made to my toy" attitude. all i am saying here is that the ego needs to be stricken from each of these threads. if it's over powered, lets fix it. if it's broken, lets fix it.

 

not lets fix it because it hurt my feelings, you know?

[Tostov]

whats wrong, is the "my x weapon, still having the same specs as prior to release of new toy, is now useless because of y reason even though no changes have been made to my toy" attitude. all i am saying here is that the ego needs to be stricken from each of these threads. if it's over powered, lets fix it. if it's broken, lets fix it.

 

not lets fix it because it hurt my feelings, you know?

Then tell me, is the Synoid Gammacor overpowered?

[ObviousLee]

Then tell me, is the Synoid Gammacor overpowered?

i cannot tell you from first hand experience. the math itself seems to indicate that yes, a balance re-adjustment might be in order. things to take into consideration are the range cap and the ammo economy. as i've not done any testing whatsoever, i can only defer to those who have.

 

if it is over powered, then yes, lets fix it. lets just fix it for the right reasons.

 

edit:

<----these are not the right reasons. Edited December 4, 2014 by ObviousLee

[Buzkyl]

Was the weapon overbuffed? It seems so, but there's no reason why we can't buff the other syndicate weapons who are not on par while dialing back on the the buff the suda's secondary got.

 

I can't see how people advocate balance but are against nerfing. buff all weapons, enemies become much easier to kill, everyon complains it's too easy.

 

In terms of numbers, it seems to be overbuff, but DE is known for knee-jerk reaction when it comes to buff and nerfing. Usually it's either buff to godly levels or nered into the ground, though at few times we get a good inbetween

[Tostov]

i cannot tell you from first hand experience. the math itself seems to indicate that yes, a balance re-adjustment might be in order. things to take into consideration are the range cap and the ammo economy. as i've not done any testing whatsoever, i can only defer to those who have.

 

if it is over powered, then yes, lets fix it. lets just fix it for the right reasons.

 

edit:

<----these are not the right reasons.

Thing is, that while some of the issue conceptually arises from the term 'overpowered' (i.e. What exactly is overpowered?)

And conversely, despite having never utilised the gammacor itself, I feel that it is still possible to make judgement about the weapon by combining previous experience with aforementioned mathematical deductions. Hence why I feel that despite the 'restrictions' enforced on the weapon, it is overpowered compared to normal armaments avaliable prior to it, and overpowered compared to at least some of the weapons in the new syndicate sets.

Edit: In case you're wondering what exact scenario,

I have a flux rifle,

With the following build > 

Performance wise, its pretty much identical (although, heavy caliber means the beam jumps around a little).

It takes two seconds to reload, has ~11 seconds of continuous fire per clip, same status chance by 4%, has the same number of spare magazines (3). Has twenty five meter range.

Practically, the only difference is that the Synroid Gammacor deals three times as much damage, and receives three times as much effective ammo from ammo restores, and is a secondary.

I consider that flux rifle build relatively balanced. When the Snyroid gammacor is dealing three times the balanced amount of damage, something is wrong, even for sidearm standards.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tostov

[ObviousLee]

Thing is, that while some of the issue conceptually arises from the term 'overpowered' (i.e. What exactly is overpowered?)

And conversely, despite having never utilised the gammacor itself, I feel that it is still possible to make judgement about the weapon by combining previous experience with aforementioned mathematical deductions. Hence why I feel that despite the 'restrictions' enforced on the weapon, it is overpowered compared to normal armaments avaliable prior to it, and overpowered compared to at least some of the weapons in the new syndicate sets.

see, i can fully get behind this kind of logic. i approve. lotta other folks could learn a thing or two from this post.

[Makya]

Performance wise, its pretty much identical (although, heavy caliber means the beam jumps around a little).

It takes two seconds to reload, has ~11 seconds of continuous fire per clip, same status chance by 4%, has the same number of spare magazines (3). Has twenty five meter range.

Practically, the only difference is that the Synroid Gammacor deals three times as much damage, and receives three times as much effective ammo from ammo restores, and is a secondary.

I consider that flux rifle build relatively balanced. When the Snyroid gammacor is dealing three times the balanced amount of damage, something is wrong, even for sidearm standards.

The flux rifle is one of the weakest weapons in game.. Modded the same way.. A flux rifle only does the same of a BOLTOR, not a boltor prime and only 35% more damage than a BRATON.. Don't you think there is something wrong with the Flux Rifle?

[Magnar21]

take the critical chance off , u wont hit a crit every shot

You misunderstand the editor. Clicking that button allows for Critical chance and damage to be factored into the calculation. Without that, the weapon will be unable to crit in the build simulator. IT DOES NOT TREAT ALL HITS AS CRITS. It simply tells you what the average (or ideal) dps would be, if the weapon was "perfectly" random, and crit exactly how often it says it should. Experiment for yourself, and you will see this.

[democrator]

Continuous weapons are on DE's radar, hopefully they get "balanced"

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/170638-petition-to-fix-continuous-weapons/page-13#entry3981897

[DUSTCLOUD]

Continuous weapons are on DE's radar, hopefully they get "balanced"

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/170638-petition-to-fix-continuous-weapons/page-13#entry3981897

 

Oh yeah balance, like how they balanced excalibur trinity, mag and interception because of viver. Not unlike how many were mad that they missed the 1-2 week long event for Brakk. initial brakk saw said to be too strong, too good. But if people kindaly waited to see where DE was taking the magic pony ride they might have understood that the Brakk's "balancing" was unnecesary.

So instead of taking this, OMG its broken because i dont have it for reason xyz, calm down and ride it out. Focus all thata energy on getting Castanas it's ammo pool back, it has better procs and burst damage than this gun.

[tcooc]

There are groups where I get kicked out for not having a gammacor. "Get good weapons, noob." I'm told.

[democrator]

There are groups where I get kicked out for not having a gammacor. "Get good weapons, noob." I'm told.

if only we can report them and teach them a listen..so rude!! gammacor is not the only weapon that's good

 Focus all thata energy on getting Castanas it's ammo pool back, it has better procs and burst damage than this gun.

I really wish they do this..5 forma'ed angstrum and castanas are collecting dust now.. :(

[Tostov]

The flux rifle is one of the weakest weapons in game.. Modded the same way.. A flux rifle only does the same of a BOLTOR, not a boltor prime and only 35% more damage than a BRATON.. Don't you think there is something wrong with the Flux Rifle?

Not at all. Flux rifle is point and click, has no recoil and even with heavy caliber is dead accurate within its range. Boltor is a surprisingly powerful weapon, even if its below the Soma or the primes. And I'm pretty sure the flux rifle still does more damage (but is less ammo efficent) than a boltor with the same setup. Sure, it doesn't do more burst, but the flux rifle isn't really designed around a few shots here and there, its made to nail heavy targets in a continuous beam, and it has one of the highest sustained damages despite relatively low burst damage. 

Checking, boltor with the same setup (4 elements, vile accel, Serration/Split, Heavy Caliber) does both less sustained and burst damage (burst is only a little under though), has recoil, a lower ammo count per clip, and slow moving, now much more inaccurate because of heavy caliber, darts, rather than a instant hit continuous beam. Boltor also takes longer to reload.

I mean, you'd have had a much better point if you brought up the quanta, which has both better burst and sustain, can shoot explosions, has twice the range and ten times the ammo efficiency. Or the tiberon, which has great burst, and a good sustain, along with excellent accuracy that doesn't take a hit from heavy caliber. (Its worth noting that the tiberon is a amazing weapon, on par with new braton prime, while being more ammo efficient)

I mean, I could always like a flux rifle buff, but thats aside from the current topic. The flux rifle would handle like the synoid gammacor. Thing is, the synoid gammacor deals three times the amount of damage of the flux rifle, in both burst and sustain. Three times the amount of the flux rifle is utterly absurd. Especially the sustain amount.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tostov

[Makya]

There are groups where I get kicked out for not having a gammacor. "Get good weapons, noob." I'm told.

Screen shots?

[Magneu]

As someone who owns a 3 forma one, yes, it wrecks face in close range. Seriously, in tight corridors this thing is amazing. But running Cerebus for rep or even some of the larger Void tiles, I get bent over in half on any non damage mitigation/avoidance frames closing the gap to Gunners and such. In addition, the pin point accuracy is actually kinda annoying; probably cause I go for headshots by default, but against big swarms I always swap to my Braton Prime with punch through. Synoid is an amazing up close weapon, Vaykor can mostly land headshots at 75m and can self revive, Sancti have amazing burst/100% electric proc/can self revive...syndicate weapons are end game weapons (except for Raksta. DE y u do dis). 100k rep gain is a 3 day grind of maxing rep at MR17 to get a single one. Granted I'm in favor of locking them to someone who is at Rank 5 in at least one syndicate (or at least locking the trade, so they don't get boned if they switch syndicates), but I think they are as powerful as they should be. My only issue with the Synoid is i think the clip is needlessly large, but that's just my two cents.