Synoid Gammacor Needs A Nerf..

[shut]

ok lets nerf everything in the game ! in a PVE game where it doesnt even matter !

 

Not defending the OP by any means, but weapon balance is also important in PVE games. Saying otherwise is saying that a new rocket pistol that has a 999m AoE range that does 500000 base damage and doesn't affect the user would be okay because "it will only help the team".

 

Obviously we don't have to be as strict about weapon balance as we would in a PVP game, but a line still has to be drawn somewhere.

[Davoodoo]

You just disqualified when I read 6 forma boltor prime. Where is your nerf-topic for boltor prime "that all kids" use?

 

Nevertheless you do have a point of synoid gammacor to be a tad to strong, burried in all this mess and insulting.

Well currently 23k dps being too much got crushed under weight of 50k dps being over twice too much

 

Not defending the OP by any means, but weapon balance is also important in PVE games. Saying otherwise is saying that a new rocket pistol that has a 999m AoE range that does 500000 base damage and doesn't affect the user would be okay because "it will only help the team".

 

Obviously we don't have to be as strict about weapon balance as we would in a PVP game, but a line still has to be drawn somewhere.

Well we kinda do, why?? because we can be really strict about it since theres no balancing for skill. You just make stuff that isnt too much hassle to use and balance it, its easier than to come up with counter system to vary stale pvp. Enemy balance is where balancing for skill comes into factor.

 

Also we want ppl to have diversity, its kinda nr1 important when you have game with x amount of classes in there that all of them are equally powerful.

Not only that but you dont want ppl to roll only that class since that means you wasted time designing others.

Class also means weapon types, you should have a choice there since when theres no sniper, guys who wanted to play sniper wont enjoy game as much as they would want.

 

And everything of that should be of best interest for company too, since happy customer will more likely buy your stuff.

[Pizzarugi]

What I sacrificed to get the Synoid Gammacor:

- 1x Forma (I grind void all the time, I hardly ever find forma)
- 1x Catalyst (I had 9 to spare, but given you can't get them in any legit way outside of events or purchasing with plat, its still hard to get)
- 1x Glaive Prime Blade (spent an entire day putting up WTT to get it because I used all my keys trying to get it myself)
- 1x Frost Prime Helm (actually got lucky to get another after running 10 T4 keys)
- 100,000 Standing

No, Synoid Gammacor shouldn't be nerfed.

 

 

By that logic lets release a kill everything on the map auto life support refill instant heal 100% DR auto shooting weapon with infinite ammo

Dat slippery slope fallacy.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Tostov]

What I sacrificed to get the Synoid Gammacor:

- 1x Forma (I grind void all the time, I hardly ever find forma)

- 1x Catalyst (I had 9 to spare, but given you can't get them in any legit way outside of events or purchasing with plat, its still hard to get)

- 1x Glaive Prime Blade (spent an entire day putting up WTT to get it because I used all my keys trying to get it myself)

- 1x Frost Prime Helm (actually got lucky to get another after running 10 T4 keys)

- 100,000 Standing

No, Synoid Gammacor shouldn't be nerfed.

 

100k standing, depending on MR and whether you want to spill plat for a booster, is nothing.

Prime part costs are pure RNG, something that's pretty present everywhere else, and literally needed if you want a prime weapon/warfrmae. Suda's two requirements together are arguably the easiest of the bunch (Perrin is a close second, because mag prime helmet is way more common, but Schino prime blade isn't so much).

Potato (of any variety) and Forma are both pretty low cost plat wise, and while potatoes are rare, all the syndicates need both of these things anyway. Forma is quite common if you know where to look, and takes a day to build.

The costs, especially for an established player, are insignificant. And Gammacors can be grinded for 100k rep once you've reached max rank, so only the first one needs the items, the rest you can probably sell for 40-120 plat, and make bank, even if you bought the potato and forma. You can give one to all your friends for free too.

Know what it costs if you got if for free from a friend? Nothing. At. All.

(Actually, trade tax credits, but yeah, cheaper that almost all weapons (Braton mk 1 might beat it out, by costing less than the trade cost))

Does not justify overpowered performance. Please see previous post and address the issues there if you want to try and convince me otherwise.

[Pizzarugi]

100k standing, depending on MR and whether you want to spill plat for a booster, is nothing.

Prime part costs are pure RNG, something that's pretty present everywhere else, and literally needed if you want a prime weapon/warfrmae. Suda's two requirements together are arguably the easiest of the bunch (Perrin is a close second, because mag prime helmet is way more common, but Schino prime blade isn't so much).

Potato (of any variety) and Forma are both pretty low cost plat wise, and while potatoes are rare, all the syndicates need both of these things anyway. Forma is quite common if you know where to look, and takes a day to build.

The costs, especially for an established player, are insignificant. And Gammacors can be grinded for 100k rep once you've reached max rank, so only the first one needs the items, the rest you can probably sell for 40-120 plat, and make bank, even if you bought the potato and forma. You can give one to all your friends for free too.

Know what it costs if you got if for free from a friend? Nothing. At. All.

(Actually, trade tax credits, but yeah, cheaper that almost all weapons (Braton mk 1 might beat it out, by costing less than the trade cost))

Does not justify overpowered performance. Please see previous post and address the issues there if you want to try and convince me otherwise.

1. Low MR players will be spending a much longer time working towards leveling up their Syndicate due to low standing cap.

2. Some players will still be unfortunate in their findings and have to spend more time finding the parts, maybe even running out of keys and thus forcing them to find more of them as well. From personal experience, I've already went through 30+ T1 survival keys at 40 minute sessions each looking for a Loki Prime piece and still having no luck finding it. This same scenario can still apply to finding the pieces you need to sacrifice to rank up in your syndicate.

3. You're implying everyone wants to spend money to purchase a Forma or potato, or engage in trade with players rather than earn it themselves. It would be a bad idea for DE to base all opinions from players who got their power from purchasing platinum or trading other players, and completely ignoring those who want to actually work for their stuff.

4. Of course it would be easier for more established players, no doubt about it. We've been here longer, we've earned everything, so its no surprise we'd be able to easily get our hands on it. Newer players, however, don't have that luxury, and basing it only on the veterans rather than the newbs is a bad idea.

5. Again, you're implying everyone has friends who are willing to grind for a weapon to give them. Worst comes to worst, DE can just as easily revert the ability to trade syndicate weapons.

[Whitewolf..UK..]

Op. Its ppl like you that are ruining this game....if it's good and fun...nerf it! !!

If you have all these complaints about the weapon the simple solution is to just don't use it! !!

[Tostov]

1. Low MR players will be spending a much longer time working towards leveling up their Syndicate due to low standing cap.

2. Some players will still be unfortunate in their findings and have to spend more time finding the parts, maybe even running out of keys and thus forcing them to find more of them as well. From personal experience, I've already went through 30+ T1 survival keys at 40 minute sessions each looking for a Loki Prime piece and still having no luck finding it. This same scenario can still apply to finding the pieces you need to sacrifice to rank up in your syndicate.

3. You're implying everyone wants to spend money to purchase a Forma or potato, or engage in trade with players rather than earn it themselves. It would be a bad idea for DE to base all opinions from players who got their power from purchasing platinum or trading other players, and completely ignoring those who want to actually work for their stuff.

4. Of course it would be easier for more established players, no doubt about it. We've been here longer, we've earned everything, so its no surprise we'd be able to easily get our hands on it. Newer players, however, don't have that luxury, and basing it only on the veterans rather than the newbs is a bad idea.

5. Again, you're implying everyone has friends who are willing to grind for a weapon to give them. Worst comes to worst, DE can just as easily revert the ability to trade syndicate weapons.

1. Absolutely. Low MR players will also probably not be able to make any prime gear whatsoever due to punishing RNG and lack of access to keys and equipment that allows them to effectively run void and derelict missions. Arguably, given this, both primes and syndicate weapons should perform reletavely equally. Understandably, given that clan tech does not require prime parts, it would conceptually be of lower performance than comparable syndicate weapons. More on that later.

2. Sure thing, and literally applies to prime weapons. Once again, clan-tech, a comparable "Difficulty" equivalent in terms of acquisition, does not.

3. Understandably, there's those whom want to keep plat purchases to a minimum. The infrequency of potato appearance is a concern, and also applies to using just about any weapon for intense combat work (long endless). Syndicates add more strain to this. Remember though, potato is required for third rank, so large restores and syndicate mods both are unlocked from this as well. I agree, the potato restriction is annoying, since they're about a once a fortnight or so occurance. Forma isn't so much.

4. And that's the thing. Synoid Gammacor isn't really a weapon for newer players, hence why the acquisition costs are based around those of more estabilshed players. The syndicates were sort of added for all players, but noone should really be expecting a new player to rank up to five (without help) until they've reached about MR 6-10 anyway.

5. Well, my statement came off a little wrong, but there's contextual reason behind it (that I'll explain below). Not going to lie, while I might grind out a syndicate weapon for a friendly trade, I don't really think most people except those who have much too much rep, will actually do so, with most selling theirs for plat on the market. DE has apparently mentioned a few times that syndicates were supposed to promote trade (and well, plat purchases in a sense) by making syndicates much harder to grind various options for.

The fact that it can be bought is a somewhat seperate issue, but affects the 'main' competetor for syndicate weapons, primes, and hence, I figure that both should be around the same strength in terms of performance

Anyway, assuming your argument is this:

"Synoid Stats are okay because difficulty in acquisition outweighs benefits of the weapon."

Now, quickly noting, if this isn't actually what you meant, then please correct me.

Now, obviously, I disagree with this. The overall performance of the weapon is far in excess of contemporaries in the same field of expertise (Continuous, high sustained damage, with limited range), by more that a significant margin. 3 times the effective DPS with 2x or greater ammo efficiency is not something that is outweighed by the acquisition cost of the weapon.

Especially if we consider our "Lone Tenno", who doesn't interact or have connections ingame, and is new.

The comparable weapons, for this example, and in general, are the Spectra, Nukor, Flux Rifle, Synapse, Amprex, Phage and Quanta. The Gammacor also counts, and is admittedly the easiest to acquire (except argon, but that's voidluck as usual).

For the Gammacor, its pretty easy. Go visit the void till you have enough argon and control modules and alloy plates (plastids are probably the hardest part, but a new player would get clem from Saturn), then slap it in the foundry. Its also the best bar the Synapse, Amprex, Phage and Quanta, more on that later.

For the rest, they're all clantech. Which means, for all of them, One forma for oracle, one forma for the lab, and one forma for making the weapon in the foundry. You'll also need a forma for the reactor to power the lab and oracle, and a walkway T or Cross, so another forma.

So, before we even have it in the foundry, building, there's 5 forma required already. 

Cost wise for the tech, you're looking at somewhere in the region of 50-65k credits, plus various resources, which will take about 12 days of straight research time. (All the corpus ones are the same, Nukor and Phage are quicker, Synapse is much slower). Plus component cost (Fieldron/Injector/Mutagen Mass BPs and Foundry build costs, from 2-8 (Amprex also needs three argon))

Starting to look a lot closer in cost to the Syndicate weapons, huh?

I agree, they are still conceptually easier, since forma's can be come by in normal gameplay, whereas potatoes are limited to alerts and invasions. There's no rep grind (There's resource, but that's a little less). But that doesn't account for the weapon being so effective it renders comparable weapons utterly useless. (See: Spectra, Nukor, Flux Rifle). At best, I'd consider twice the damage output for simmilar ammo efficency, something that is not the case for the Synoid Gammacor.

Now then, as for the curious state of the normal Gammacor. It's pretty simple. The spectra, flux rifle and Nukor are actually somewhat underpowered, and could do with a buff (that, or you can argue that the gammacor (basic) needs to be toned down, which I don't find to be the case as much). However, the pure effectiveness of the Synoid being 6-9x as effective as par weapons (The nukor flux and spectra actually all have pretty average stats in terms of overall positioning in weapons) shows just how utterly incomparable it is.

The effectiveness should be closer to 2-3 times the effectiveness of contempararies. Assuming the weapon has about 1.7-2.1 times the damage of the original, you really should be looking at equal or higher ammo consumption rate. Instead, the Gammacor has the opposite. Its more than twice as powerful as the already decent orignial weapon, while also possessing an ammo effectiveness of double, resulting in a weapon with not only outstanding DPS, but also incredible ammo efficiency.

If it were to keep the effectively doubled or more ammo efficiency, it really should only be doing 1.2-1.6 times the damage of a  weapon or roughly equal "Rank".

Edit: That ended up a bit more of a wall than I initially thought, sorry about that. Also, I'm going to sleep, so the next response will probably be a fair bit later, sorry about that.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Tostov

[BioToxiic]

 

Oh don't pretend to not know that a majority of the players are mastery 14+. 

I'm mastery 14 and I've been playing for over a year... (got mastery 14 last month) >.>

[BioToxiic]

Have you looked at the stats on Grate Prime? NERF! *sarcasm*

[Keiga150]

So its high damage huh. Op huh. Well can't wait to get my hands on it. That way when the next Corpus bullet sponge is released, be it new enemy or amped up normals, it shouldn't be that bad.

[Rezo0]

I'm mastery 14 and I've been playing for over a year... (got mastery 14 last month) >.>

 

If it took you that long to get mastery 14.. You have been doing something wrong.  Means it took you atleast 1 month each rank.. after MR4.... Because the first 4 are for free.

[-NEO-Roguelike]

Im from Suda,i have SG,and its really need to be nerfed.

But also  - i completely agree with thi fact,but as i think - Brakk,Maerlok and revivng boltos must be nerfed as well. As well as a 20-30% of ingame weps needs a buff. So just nerf SG and nothing more - its timewasting talking,heres many outbalance in this game.

[-NEO-Roguelike]

If it took you that long to get mastery 14.. You have been doing something wrong.  Means it took you atleast 1 month each rank.. after MR4.... Because the first 4 are for free.

LOL? Im 11 MR,im playing half a year. Its not about gametime question - IM JUST DONT NEED MORE MR? Heres nothing i cant get after rank 8,so whats a point to up it?O_o idk

[Sakatchi]

So they've introduced new infested and nullifier crewmen that are a pain in the butt and actually may require the new stronger weaponry, but you want to nerf the weaponry that was supplied to deal with the new content.

 

Brilliant, I bet you never play outside of the star map, or are one of those "I play t4 and extract at 20 because things get too op" types arent you?

[Pizzarugi]

LOL? Im 11 MR,im playing half a year. Its not about gametime question - IM JUST DONT NEED MORE MR? Heres nothing i cant get after rank 8,so whats a point to up it?O_o idk

And this is why I suggest gating everything behind a mastery rank to encourage people to actually raise it. Synoid Gammacor too OP? Lets lock all syndicate weapons behind MR15, make people spend huge sums of resources and time mastering every weapon under the sun before they become worthy enough to use the best ones. It beats nerfing them, and allows endgamers to keep using them.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[-NEO-Roguelike]

And this is why I suggest gating everything behind a mastery rank to encourage people to actually raise it. Synoid Gammacor too OP? Lets lock all syndicate weapons behind MR15, make people spend huge sums of resources and time mastering every weapon under the sun before they become worthy enough to use the best ones. It beats nerfing them, and allows endgamers to keep using them.

Yup,its nice idea.

[homiedudemanguy]

Or make other weapons better. its honestly that simple, no one likes nerfs and no one likes weapons shadowing the majority of the others so make the others worth it. plus these weapons are syndicate weapons which are supposedly long term any way so i dont see the point of a nerf

[-NEO-Roguelike]

Dont see a point to nerf secondary weapon what outdamages every primary weapon? :D Ive got bad news for you :D

[Pizzarugi]

Or make other weapons better. its honestly that simple, no one likes nerfs and no one likes weapons shadowing the majority of the others so make the others worth it. plus these weapons are syndicate weapons which are supposedly long term any way so i dont see the point of a nerf

Exactly.

 

Older clantech and prime weapons should be buffed to compete with the damage of newer ones coming out. Clantech is generally very expensive and time-consuming (building all of the fieldron/mutagen mass/detonite injectors is actually quite a lengthy process by itself), and prime weapons are gated behind 2 RNG gates (RNG to get the keys you need, and the RNG to get the components you need from those keys).

Edited December 8, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Kasumi-]

ITT OP is in Red Veil.

 

Why don't you want them to nerf the brakk or the Vaylor?

 

Vaylor and Telos can revive you.

And the Castanas, apparently.

[Jahakarr]

ok lets nerf everything in the game ! in a PVE game where it doesnt even matter ! 

so something thats hard to obtain works well ? oh dear !

god forbid something is actually better than the current much loved super OP weapons

 

the developer gives us a nice weapon to enjoy

 

we complain on forums its too nice 

 

then we cry why we can never have nice things

 

ah yes the vicious cycle of warframe community @_@

 

The problem is that it works Too well. And almost ALL of you have agreed with me, while disagreeing.. 

 

The weapon is EASY to get, despite what everyone wants to think, farming REP is EASY, and will take 30 min out of your day.

[Makya]

Or make other weapons better. its honestly that simple, no one likes nerfs and no one likes weapons shadowing the majority of the others so make the others worth it. plus these weapons are syndicate weapons which are supposedly long term any way so i dont see the point of a nerf

Lets buff the enemies too as then they'd all be weak compared, thus boring otherwise

[Jahakarr]

What I sacrificed to get the Synoid Gammacor:

- 1x Forma (I grind void all the time, I hardly ever find forma)

- 1x Catalyst (I had 9 to spare, but given you can't get them in any legit way outside of events or purchasing with plat, its still hard to get)

- 1x Glaive Prime Blade (spent an entire day putting up WTT to get it because I used all my keys trying to get it myself)

- 1x Frost Prime Helm (actually got lucky to get another after running 10 T4 keys)

- 100,000 Standing

No, Synoid Gammacor shouldn't be nerfed.

 

 

Dat slippery slope fallacy.

 

You know, you guys make it out to be this long, hard an epic journey, getting to max rank that is. It's not. 

 

1x Forma - You grind voids all the time but rarely get one? You rarely get a forma blueprint? Really? I currently have over 30 of those in my inventory, your argument for forma is Invalid.

 

1X Catalyst - Sure you might have to buy one from the market. They cost 20 plat, run some t4 get a loki p helmet and sell it for 40p, problem solved, and i do believe that every single syndicate has to pay a catalyst? I suppose people in red veil don't deserve a good weapon then huh?

 

1X Glaive Prime Blade - You clearly don't play this game a whole lot do you? Play 1 or 2 T4Int and you'll get one of these for sure. But Yes bad luck does happen, and it can be hard to get, and you can just buy it for 5p as well.

 

Frost Prime Helm - This is so easy to get for free that i'm not even going to say anything.. And i am 99.9% that you had to run 10 T4's to get this is a lie. I get it in nearly every T4S i go to.

 

And even if all of these things were hard to get ahold of, does that give the synoid the right to completely overshadow everything else? What about red veil? And since when did it become ok for secondary weapons to overshadow the very best primaries in the game? That's just not fun.. 

 

Also, all you people who are saying that its ok that its op because its a pve game, you're all wrong. And i bet that the only reason that anyone is actually defending this broken thing is because they went and spent 350 plats buying it. That, or they're in cephalon suda and wants to keep the money train going for as long as possible. 

 

Even PvE Games needs balance. Why? Well you see - when you choose a weapon, you want to choose the most effective and fun weapon to use. I used to at least have some options, but now? SG - primary? Guess ill just go for max conclave then.. yay... 

[Jahakarr]

Op. Its ppl like you that are ruining this game....if it's good and fun...nerf it! !!

If you have all these complaints about the weapon the simple solution is to just don't use it! !!

 

It's people like me who keeps the game alive. You're just too ignorant to see it.

[RobWasHere]

What about buffing all other weapons? (Looking at you cestras and ballistica)