Please Revert The Change That Made Large Restore Bps Unsellable.

[Skiptis]

While I get the logic behind the reasoning, I don't really buy its validity. On the face of it, selling BPs provided too much credits, but by that logic we should also remove the credit reward from the fast void missions because just like void missions the amount of rep you gain is limited. Let's break it down:

 

+ Large BPs are gained with syndicate standing.

+ Standing is limited in how much you can get per day.

 - Therefore the supply of standing, that was possible to turn into credits with large restore bps, was limited.

 

+ The current de facto baseline for credit gain is generally considered to be whichever high level Dark Sector Defense that has lowest tax, usually Sechura or Seimini depending on ownership / tax rate.

+ Credit you can gain from these nodes is UNLIMITED over time.

 - Therefore, it is logical to assume that since the credits you can gain here is theoretically unlimited it will be lower than limited sources (high level voids which is limited by keys and formerly BPs which were limited by the rep cap)

 * With a proper setup (read: speed Nova) credit gain on these nodes with low tax over time is, on average, probably equal or superior to grinding standing to sell BPs, while simultaneously being unlimited in supply.

 

+ The current standing system has an upper limit.

+ Therefore, once you hit the upper limit you would, in order to gain a continued benefit from standing, need to continuously buy things for standing to either use or sell.

+ Credits are almost always in demand.

 - Therefore, being able to sell BPs for credits provided a continuous benefit / raison d'être for the standing system even for people who had gotten all of the things they wanted and aren't interested in assaulting their faith in humanity by way of the Trading chat.

 

+ The recent patches added several massive credit sinks to the economy, in shape of the ducat trader and the fusing cost for new (and old) mods.

+ We can expect this to continue to be a credit sink as new items are added to the ducat trader.

 - Therefore, if being able to sell large consumable BPs for credits was a major new source of credits, we've also seen large new credit sinks that go the way of making up for it.

* The syndicate system itself also provided a large credit sink in form of the rank up cost.

 

+ The ducat trader added a new currency.

+ Adding a new currency at the same time you're adding sinks for existing currencies while simultaneously restricting the faucets of the existing currencies spreads players thin in terms of acquiring currency.

 - If credit gain was an issue you've only targeted the most convenient rather than the most effective way of getting credits.

 

+ Being able to convert rep into credits provided players with a means of choosing how they wanted to gain their credits, at the cost of standing progress or other standing purchases.

+ Player choice is good.

+ Without being able to turn standing into credits, we're back to DSD / T4 speedruns for time efficient credit gain.

+ 5 wave DSDs are not a compelling choice for primary method of credit gain because they are boring. as. F***. and everyone is tired of them.

 

+ Warframe already has numerous restrictions on how fast you can acquire items.

+ Blueprint / part availability, crafting times and content gating are just some of these.

+ Warframe is a free-to-play game and therefore needs to have restrictions in order to incencitivise real money purchases.

+ However, credits is the ubiquitous currency of the game and as the lowest common denominator should also be the easiest to acquire in order to maintain the relative exclusivity of higher tiers of restrictions (such as prime parts).

 - Therefore, targeting generous credit gains is illogical because at the credit costs we're currently seeing ingame it only makes sense as an "easy to gain, easy to spend" currency.

 * This is with the exception of credit gains generous enough to make the currency pointless, but this is as previously mentioned not the case.

 

Counterargument: You could gain standing and credits at the same time.

+ This is true, but the currently most efficient ways to generate credits are reliant on speed and have in-built or natural restrictions on the amount of affinity you can gain while using them

+ Some examples would be the relatively lower amount of high affinity mobs on the first five DSD waves or the affinity gain from speedrunning f.e. T4C. The primary reason for this is the static nature of credit rewards. It is currently mutually exclusive to gain a high amount of credits and a high amount of affinity over time from a single activity based on the ones currently available ingame.

 

TL;DR: grinding seimini is boring as S#&$, turning standing into credits via BPs allowed people to choose how to spend (some of) the time that went into credits which made for a more enjoyable gameplay experience

 

If you felt that the credit gains from BPs was too much you should have lowered the amount of credits the large consumable BPs sold for (150k? 100k?) rather than making them unsellable.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Skiptis

[cyrus106]

Sorry, I disagree. It was a huge exploit to gain credits, and DE removed it because it was the correct move. I personally just trade for plat and buy a credit booster, it's done a good job for me just playing the game normally.

[JohnProdman]

The change isn't going to be reverted.

[izzatuw]

Or DE makes other things slightly more valuable than their current state?

[Moojiji]

Hilarious joke following:

 

"Why don't you buy the High Roller Bundle from the market to get credits?"

Edited December 17, 2014 by Moojiji

[taiiat]

-snip-

"The Market has a 100% drop rate for Credits"

-Glen

Edited December 17, 2014 by taiiat

[GeneralArmchair]

I strongly agree with the op. EVERY alternative method of farming credits vastly outpaced selling restore bps. The only scenario where selling your bps made sense was if you were a casual player who wanted to spend his meager time enjoying the game instead of speed running void missions or dark sectors.

Edited December 18, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[Ajreil]

I don't think the change should be reverted. The problem here is that using the reputation system to gain credits is a huge waste of potential. Through the reputation system, you get access to mods that modify your Warframe's abilities, unique weapons, easy access to the Void, a reason to visit the awesome relays and you get to play hide-and-seek with medallions in Syndicate alerts. As a new player, you might be encouraged to use the reputation system to gain some easy credits instead of experiencing an awesome system the way it was intended. DE has poured their heart and soul into creating this system, they don't want new players to accidentally miss out on all of it because they used it to make some quick cash. As a method for farming credits, it's completely balanced, even overshadowed by dark sectors, but that's not why the change was a good idea.

[GeneralArmchair]

I don't think the change should be reverted. The problem here is that using the reputation system to gain credits is a huge waste of potential. Through the reputation system, you get access to mods that modify your Warframe's abilities, unique weapons, easy access to the Void, a reason to visit the awesome relays and you get to play hide-and-seek with medallions in Syndicate alerts. As a new player, you might be encouraged to use the reputation system to gain some easy credits instead of experiencing an awesome system the way it was intended. DE has poured their heart and soul into creating this system, they don't want new players to accidentally miss out on all of it because they used it to make some quick cash. As a method for farming credits, it's completely balanced, even overshadowed by dark sectors, but that's not why the change was a good idea.

Those new players are likely locked out of those mods due to a lack rare prime components like glance prime blades or like prime helmets . They are probably stuck with T4 keys that they are too low to use or specters with broken AI. Why not let them at least get some credits when they are otherwise pressed against their reputation ceiling with nothing else to but? Edited December 18, 2014 by GeneralArmchair

[Xylia]

Just run Void Missions for Ducats (since you need to do that anyways).

 

You'll get craptons of credits in no time flat.

 

EDIT:

 

Those new players are likely locked out of those mods due to a lack rare prime components. They are probably stuck with T4 keys that they are too low to use or specters with broken AI. Why not let them at least get some credits when they are otherwise pressed against their reputation ceiling with nothing else to but?

 

Not to sound brash or anything, but Syndicates were not really built, nor balanced, around new players.

 

That, and some of the Syndicates want parts that are NOT that hard to get. Though, before you trade a part, they ask for a Forma and a Potato lol. So chances are, a lot of new players won't even get TO the Blueprint Stage because of that.

 

A new player should be focusing on getting "main" weapons and good mods for those weapons, along with a good frame first and foremost, not worrying about syndicates, transmutation, or extremely high level fusions (Lv6-7 Serration is just fine for awhile if you're a newbie).

Edited December 18, 2014 by Xylia

[GeneralArmchair]

Just run Void Missions for Ducats (since you need to do that anyways).

 

You'll get craptons of credits in no time flat.

The appeal of selling restore bps was that it provided a mediocre method to farm credits for people who didn't want to speed run the same void mission over and over during their play sessions.

"just run void missions" is not a valid response.

[Skiptis]

Sorry, I disagree. It was a huge exploit to gain credits, and DE removed it because it was the correct move. I personally just trade for plat and buy a credit booster, it's done a good job for me just playing the game normally.

How was it an "exploit", if existing methods of gaining credits are more efficient and were left untouched? The only thing it was, was convenient, and that's what DE targeted. Which is silly, because forcing people to grind a very limited set of very specific missions that have little intrinsic gameplay value is not particularly encouraging.

 

Hilarious joke following:

 

"Why don't you buy the High Roller Bundle from the market to get credits?"

I was tempted to make a joke about it, but the high roller bundle in itself is joke enough.

 

Or DE makes other things slightly more valuable than their current state?

Possible, but if the intent was to shift the relative value of currencies they already accomplished that by adding the void trader since it provides a sink for prime parts / bps, which in turns inflates platinum value of those items.

 

The change isn't going to be reverted.

Oh, I doubt it, I'm just whining by way of pointing out how utterly illogical it is.

 

Something something cash grab, etc.