This "4 To Win" Mentality That The Community Seems To Hate

[es.iiden]

Im sorry to tell you but when you're dealing with 45+ void enemies and you want to go as far as you can to challenge yourself, you cant blame people for using frames with High CC, high damaging "4's". Some of you honestly think that other cant play without using 4, which is a sad joke. to me using 4 is resorting to the most efficient tactic possible in high level missions, especially def, survival and interception, considering how fast of the dynamic can change when enemies do absurd damage, absorb absurd damage and they themselves have absurd CC and come in DROVES, eventually your damage will start to taper off and you wont be able to proceed further without some serious skill spammage.

 

Personally when i go to t3 and t4 void missions, my goal is to go as far as i can so i can make the most out of my key so if i have to recruit a team of OP "4" abilities, trust me I will. if i can maximize my gain why wouldn't I?

 

Dont blame the players for utilizing tools that they have been giving simply because you dont like it, blame the tools themselves for being so incredibly useful. There comes a point where you play this game so long that your prime objective is to go for the most efficient route possible and personally i dont see any reason as to why thats a bad thing.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ThatWhichWasTaken

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Im sorry to tell you but when you're dealing with 45+ void enemies and you want to go as far as you can to challenge yourself, you cant blame people for using frames with High CC, high damaging "4's". Some of you honestly think that other cant play without using 4, which is a sad joke. to me using 4 is resorting to the most efficient tactic possible in high level missions, especially def, survival and interception, considering how fast of the dynamic can change when enemies do absurd damage, absorb absurd damage and they themselves have absurd CC and come in DROVES, eventually your damage will start to taper off and you wont be able to proceed further without some serious skill spammage.

 

Personally when i go to t3 and t4 void missions, my goal is to go as far as i can so i can make the most out of my key so if i have to recruit a team of OP "4" abilities, trust me I will. if i can maximize my gain why wouldn't I?

 

Dont blame the players for utilizing tools that they have been giving simply because you dont like it, blame the tools themselves for being so incredibly useful. There comes a point where you play this game so long that your prime objective is to go for the most efficient route possible and personally i dont see any reason as to why thats a bad thing.

 

You want to challenge yourself... by pressing one button over and over again?

[vaugahn]

 i dont see any reason as to why thats a bad thing.

 

Because those "efficient tools" remove any semblance of difficulty game-wide?

 

That could be it.

[es.iiden]

You want to challenge yourself... by pressing one button over and over again?

no i want to challenge myself by going as far as i can with the tools i have. Did you bother to read? i use every tool at my disposal if possible and if it means pressing 4 to get the job done, why not?

[Tr1ples1xer]

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

[Illuminatus51]

The problem with 4 to Win is not that it is allowed to be done, but because of the fact that yes, it IS the best and only solution to problems most of the time.

 

Nova is the most sacred of cows as  she seems to be the only frame whose 4 has been completely preserved without any meaningful nerfs, while everyone else is knocked down to the point where 'Why don't you just use Nova' is a mantra of high level players. And because being swarmed with enemies is how a fair amount of high level play goes, getting rid of them so you can think is the only way out.

 

 

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

 

 

No you don't. Nobody has ever said they want more enemies immune to stuff or having other abilities taken away. I can imagine them vying for certain things having increased effectiveness, but that is far from the same thing.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Illuminatus51

[Phatose]

So, presumably when DE adds in a new unit that makes pressing 4 not get the job done, you stop and move on to different things, right?

[es.iiden]

The problem with 4 to Win is not that it is allowed to be done, but because of the fact that yes, it IS the best and only solution to problems most of the time.

 

Nova is the most sacred of cows as  she seems to be the only frame whose 4 has been completely preserved without any meaningful nerfs, while everyone else is knocked down to the point where 'Why don't you just use Nova' is a mantra of high level players. And because being swarmed with enemies is how a fair amount of high level play goes, getting rid of them so you can think is the only way out.

if i recall MP was tweaked sometime ago, if you wanna argue something along those lines, look at stomp. its stayed relatively the same.

[B3N_x_G]

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

agreed

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

no i want to challenge myself by going as far as i can with the tools i have. Did you bother to read? i use every tool at my disposal if possible and if it means pressing 4 to get the job done, why not?

 

Here's the problem, and no it isn't with you, but the game. Pressing 4 shouldn't be the best solution as often as it is. Powers are too cheap (with efficiency mods), last too long (with duration mods), and reach too far (with range mods).

 

Mods, mods, mods. The Corrupted system for powers needs to be fixed or removed.

[vaugahn]

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

 

Nobody wants to play without those things, except maybe in some optional extra challenge mission.

 

People just want all those things to fit together in the grand scheme of the game, and not alternately overshadow each other and enemies.

[es.iiden]

So, presumably when DE adds in a new unit that makes pressing 4 not get the job done, you stop and move on to different things, right?

no i have different tools for the job, if the faction requires a different frame ill simply adjust. I have all frames for this exact purpose.

[StinkyPygmy]

Because when the press 4 to win tactic is most often used in content when it is entirely unnecessary?

One doesn't actually need to spam those abilities for quite a bit into even T4 content.

Spamming 4 is fine when its all you can do to survive and there is a reason behind it.

 

The reason ult spamming is looked down on is because 90% of the time its entirely unnecessary.

 

Its no fun playing defenses with novas spamming MP before anyones even seen a mob poke their head out.

Its even less fun when we are coping just fine and all it does is slow things down.

Similar train of thought applies to other similar abilities.

 

Ever played an intercept on jupiter (small map) with 2 saryns with max range on miasma? I think I got 40 kills out of 5 rounds simply because most things were dead as soon as they spawned.

 

When the game becomes about maximising efficiency over fun and resorting to 4 spam for everything then its probably time you take a break because you obviously aren't having much fun.

 

Fun>effciency and DEE PEEE ESSSS!

Edited December 18, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Phatose]

no i have different tools for the job, if the faction requires a different frame ill simply adjust. I have all frames for this exact purpose.

 

Hey man, as long as you're practicing what you preach - adjusting yourself and remaining most efficient instead of screaming for nerfs - fine by me.

[Brettsta]

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

 

Bravo!

[taiiat]

mfw 'we need to spam AoE Blasts'.

 

so you're saying that you're relying on your Abilities to save you because your Squad isn't up to par.

[Cynaris]

I keep seeing posts about stuff like ''we should have missions with no guns, no energy, no powers, no copter, no speed, only enemies immune to everything etc''.

 

Honestly I don't know why these people play this game at all if they want to play without using anything that makes Warframe what it is.

Spot on. This is like a Third-Person Diablo to me. It's like people want you to walk up to creatures in Diablo and autoattack them to death, even though skills are obviously more efficient.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Cynaris

[B3N_x_G]

my last t3s mission was up to 40 min and the "4 to win" thing was pointless they were surviving my saryn, a rhino, and a excal. we had to spam our ults and they were bhardly doing anything and those nullifiers where a pain so we had to do a combo of melee and powers to kill anything

[Tr1ples1xer]

Spot on. This is like a First Person Diablo to me. It's like people want you to walk up to creatures in Diablo and autoattack them to death, even though skills are obviously more efficient.

If it were only up to them we would only be allowed to walk at a snails pace because going fast is OP, punch with bare fists because melee weapons are sharp and can kill thus are OP, shoot only with water guns because bullets are OP, never use powers because powers in a video game ?? come on that is OP. Enemies die when I shoot them in the face with a 6 forma'd weapon PLEASE NERF weapons are OP and on and on.

[Dampfhammer]

Spot on. This is like a Third-Person Diablo to me. It's like people want you to walk up to creatures in Diablo and autoattack them to death, even though skills are obviously more efficient.

rofl +1

[Azure_Kytia]

See, the good thing about Nullifiers is that they force the player into situations where an AoE won't destroy or incapacitate absolutely everything. This is the beginnings of diversity. Of actual gameplay / tactic inducing change. While it is less "efficient" than wiping the floor with everything with an AoE, efficiency shouldn't be the feature of the game. Enjoyability should. While it's nice to be looking for that Prime Part or another key, is the reward greater than the gameplay itself? Is it all a means to an end to get the carrot on the end of the stick, instead of the journey to get the carrot?

Players should be presented with a number of solutions to their problems, but the solution should not unanimously be the 4 button.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Azure_Kyte

[vaugahn]

If it were only up to them we would only be allowed to walk at a snails pace because going fast is OP, punch with bare fists because melee weapons are sharp and can kill thus are OP, shoot only with water guns because bullets are OP, never use powers because powers in a video game ?? come on that is OP. Enemies die when I shoot them in the face with a 6 forma'd weapon PLEASE NERF weapons are OP and on and on.

 

No, none of that.

 

When people say game balance, that's not what they mean. That is not balance. Think about the word balance for a second; "a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions". In this case, enemies and the player are those different elements.

 

Nobody wants to make all frames have 1 hp and no abilities or guns, that's just stupid. Making your argument about that just makes you look bad. People want enemies and the player to be in correct proportion to each other. If nobody can kill any enemies and every enemy one-shots you, that's not correct proportions. If players can faceroll 99% of the game's enemies, that's not correct proportions either.

[StinkyPygmy]

If it were only up to them we would only be allowed to walk at a snails pace because going fast is OP, punch with bare fists because melee weapons are sharp and can kill thus are OP, shoot only with water guns because bullets are OP, never use powers because powers in a video game ?? come on that is OP. Enemies die when I shoot them in the face with a 6 forma'd weapon PLEASE NERF weapons are OP and on and on.

You're really good at spinning blatant misdirection and hyperbole.

Edited December 18, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Tr1ples1xer]

No, none of that.

 

When people say game balance, that's not what they mean. That is not balance. Think about the word balance for a second; "a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions". In this case, enemies and the player are those different elements.

 

Nobody wants to make all frames have 1 hp and no abilities or guns, that's just stupid. Making your argument about that just makes you look bad. People want enemies and the player to be in correct proportion to each other. If nobody can kill any enemies and every enemy one-shots you, that's not correct proportions. If players can faceroll 99% of the game's enemies, that's not correct proportions either.

This game is not 1 vs 1, its 1 vs 1000, so I want to be 1000x more powerful than enemies balance right ? That was the whole point of me playing all this time to get MR18 so I can be a god and kill everything that moves while looking like a badass with style, now you have to hide behind cover and pray you still have energy to do anything. Its not about 4 at all because I don't spam it with a macro that's stupid, I want to breath a little and enjoy the damage I'm doing and parkour everywhere, sadly I can't do that anymore. Anyways I'm not playing anymore you can still ignore my posts...

Edited December 18, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Sixty5]

Sure you can spam 4 and win, but what happens when you get to the point where that no longer works?

At that point you lack the ability to do anything simply because the only skill you have picked up at that point is pushing a single button and watching "you win" pop up on the screen.

However, if you learn to use every tool at your disposal, there will not be a point where sonething in your bag of tricks will not work.

I see it happening with Nullifier crewmen now. People can no longer instagib enemies with whatever button they choose. Playing around them is too hard, so instead they cry.