Frost Prime - Globes And Waves

[Riddle78]

So,I'm building me a Frost Prime. Didn't make me a normal Frost yet,but whatever. About time I built me a Prime item. Looking at the abilities,I decided to focus on Snow Globe and Ice Wave. Thing is,I know there's three different ways to maximize the Globe: Durability,radius,and duration,while the Ice Wave can only maximize length and damage.

 

I want my Snow Globe to last longer than a second,but I'm not really concerned with making sure it lasts for forever and a day. How do you guys think I should mod my Frost Prime? I would,however,like you to make a distinction between "Core Mods" that I can squeeze on without the use of Forma,and mods that I can go without until I have some disposable Forma to polarize the slots for.

 

In advance,thank you for the advice!

[Invisum]

The default range on globe is pretty decent, some people make it larger / smaller to suit, but for the most part range is okay. However, the thing with Globe you don't want to forget is that it has a health dependent on your power strength and armor based on Frost's armor , so using things like overextended and such will make it shredable by even low level enemies. Personally, I build for strength / duration / efficiency in that order and not using any corrupted mods that will decrease any of those three. So, basically use the straight upgrade mods like Continuity (or Primed Continuity), Streamline, Constitution, Intensify, Flow, Redirection, Steel Fiber and Vigor.

[Epicagemo]

A fully ranked Frost should have no issues with duration on his snow globe. 20 seconds is ample, IMO.

 

Over the long run, use range and efficiency. Mods that lower the effective-ness of these two are bad for Frosts.

Dropping duration really only affects one ability, and my 20 second snow globe is a fine sacrifice for ranged utility of ice wave and avalanche.

Using Duration on a snowglobe is bad because it teaches bad habits to the frost-to leave the snow globe. Casting one every 10 seconds is really key in the long run, but not too important on the lower leveled content.

 

Here's an example of the build I run. (go ahead and potato him, he's one of the most favored for groups and solo 0 Formas w/ Aura)

http://goo.gl/S1qtJj

I run three Defensive mods, you don't have to, it's just a personal preference.

The bare minimums and staples to all frames are Efficiency and maybe a lazily ranked Health/Shield mod.

 

Bottom line, the only no-no mod to me on a Frost is: Narrowminded, and Blind rage.

[xyLoneZ]

Default range on globe is what you want. It's big enough for you to stay inside and small enough for MOAs shooting on the pod.

~20s duration on globe is pretty decent, since at later waves your globe won't last long enough anyway. If you're planning to use the ice wave impendance though, you might consider putting some duration, since it's affected by duration.

[The66Monkey]

For T4 frost build you want to build a globe that has max efficiency, fair range and strength with around 30+ seconds.

The thinking here is that with 4 seconds of invincible globe and some incoming dmg you have to pop one about every 10 seconds if the pressure is on and your loki and nova have gone afk.

The reason for range is to allow movement and fire within as well as allowing squishy casters to survive the occasional rocket.

 

 

For T4 i run (Fleeting Expertise, Stretch, Primed Continuity, Transient Fortitude, Streamline, Vitality, Steel Fiber).

If you are playing with a trin efficiency is ofc useless and you can max strength and range.

 

For all around defence/excavation i would still put strength and efficiency as the most important to you, Duration second and range just for fun, however there are again exceptions like if you want to run ODD you should max range and put duration second.

[Darzk]

After the addition of Bombards to the Void I have been using ~ default range, but before that I found -21% (maxxed NM+Stretch) to be perfect, as the Fusion Moas will stop *just* outside the globes radius to fire, so the globe takes the hits, not the pod.

 

Duration is important only if you're using the IW augment (which is hilariously effective btw). 

 

As everyone here has mentioned, Efficiency is king. R4 Fleeting Expertise and Streamline is the staple of every build. Additional strength is nice but not amazing, I wouldn't use TF for example because I want *some* duration.

 

A Handspring or knockdown resist mod can help a lot at higher waves of defense. Leaders become more populous, and the fire blast can knock you out of the globe for an easy kill, and they're sometimes not easily avoidable. With Bombard's AoE going through the globe and causing knockdown it's not at all a bad idea to bring these types of mods.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Darzk

[GhostSwordsman]

I'll give you my Frost Prime main build and you can judge whether or not you think it's decent or not.

 

Aura: Rejuvination

 

Blind Rage (R6)

Fleeting expertise (R4)

Narrow Minded (R5)

Stretch (max)

Redirection (R9)

Vitality (R9)

Vigor (max)

Steel Fiber (max)

 

What this build gives me is a 30 second snow globe that is a bit larger than the default globe size and an ice wave that can kill up to level 25 at least. Also, here is the link to the wiki on frost, read up on the abilities. It says that Frost's snow globe scales off of power strength, and Frost's armor. My globe usually times out before it's health is taken down, so I'm satisfied. However, I will used primed continuity once I can max the mod and will use Primed Streamline if we get it.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Frost_%28Warframe%29

 

I'm of the opposite opinion of Epicagemo, I think that Blind Rage and Narrow Minded can be used, if you can find a good balance with them. I'd suggest at least experimenting with them as that's what they're for, increased power/utility with trade off, but balance can be found that allows for a greater increase than those of the uncorrupted versions of the mods.

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[xyLoneZ]

-snip-

Globe only scales from power strength and frost's armor, not health.

 

Also, Blind Rage is not viable, ever. I've done the comparison and it's simply not viable. You could argue that you can use R2BR to get more power strength and still capping at 75% efficiency, but honestly speaking it's still not worth the slot.

[GhostSwordsman]

Globe only scales from power strength and frost's armor, not health.

 

Also, Blind Rage is not viable, ever. I've done the comparison and it's simply not viable. You could argue that you can use R2BR to get more power strength and still capping at 75% efficiency, but honestly speaking it's still not worth the slot.

And that's your opinion, I can handle the energy cost of my globe just fine, I'm not running out of energy anytime soon. I said that Blind Rage can be used if one can find a balance with it, and I suggested to the OP to experiment with it and see what he thinks, because ultimately it's up to each player to find their own personal taste, and mine includes Blind Rage.

 

The health thing, I was wrong, though I recall reading something about it on the wiki page, perhaps someone edited that in just to troll with players. It does not say that now though, I just checked. However, I like having a decent amount of heath on Frost as it benefits in higher levels when the globe can be taken out quickly and shields are of no value because they are gone in a second or two. I'll edit the other post and take the health part out.

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[xyLoneZ]

And that's your opinion, I can handle the energy cost of my globe just fine, I'm not running out of energy anytime soon. I said that Blind Rage can be used if one can find a balance with it, and I suggested to the OP to experiment with it and see what he thinks, because ultimately it's up to each player to find their own personal taste, and mine includes Blind Rage.

It's not an opinion. It's a fact, or statistics or math or whatever you want to call it. Mind you that it's not a matter of "how good you are handling your energy" but rather how efficient it is per globe cast. You can't argue with it, simply because, no matter what you do, the BR build will do less compared to its non-BR variation.

[Riddle78]

Put those claws away. I came asking for opinions on how to build Warframe's Santa Claus,not opinions on one of the mods that may or may not go on him. Anyways,many interesting builds here. When I claim my Frost Prime,I'll begin experimentation in earnest.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Riddle78

[bodyguard121]

All i can say is your globe wont benefit that much from strength on high levels.Dont try to improve strength or duration too much.Enemies will probably destroy your globe fast in endless t4.Instead put a bit range

and max efficiency.15-20 second globe is good enough.

[GhostSwordsman]

It's not an opinion. It's a fact, or statistics or math or whatever you want to call it. Mind you that it's not a matter of "how good you are handling your energy" but rather how efficient it is per globe cast. You can't argue with it, simply because, no matter what you do, the BR build will do less compared to its non-BR variation.

First of all, I was arguing against the fact that you said "ever". That was an opinion. You are building your globe around efficiency, I'm building my globe around tankiness. Those are two completely different play styles and saying something is not viable ever is flawed and narrow minded thinking. Just because it's not viable for your build style does not mean it's not viable for my build style.

 

It also appears that most players in this thread are building and balancing around endless content. This is also a mistake because at the point you pass level 50 enemies, you're outside of the desired maximum set by the devs, so nothing will be balanced beyond that point. Personally I shoot for around 40 min. tops in survivals, so enemy levels are around level 40-50(depending on the tier), and if my build can maintain in that range then it's viable, because it's within the maximum enemy level set by the devs.

 

 

OP, I apologize for continuing to derail this thread, but it irks me to no end when others shut out opinions and suggestions because they don't follow the "meta" or if they don't "look like they would do as well on paper" or because it's "not how they play the game". And it's particuarly annoying to me when someone singles me out in this way, sure I may be the only one to suggest using Blind Rage, but as I said before, it all comes down to personal play style and taste, and I will not stand for anybody saying that something is not viable because it's not how they, or the majority, play. Stats be damned, this game isn't all about the numbers.

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[Riddle78]

Ghost,your Frost Prime build. Does it require any Forma? That is a make-or-break for me,as I never have disposable Forma. I keep throwing it at Dojo expansions and ClanTech weapons.

[GhostSwordsman]

Ghost,your Frost Prime build. Does it require any Forma? That is a make-or-break for me,as I never have disposable Forma. I keep throwing it at Dojo expansions and ClanTech weapons.

I've put two forma into my Frost Prime, however, currently I have 12 spare mod points on him. I believe I had the forma in him before the ability mods were removed from the drop tables and the warframe powers became part of the frame and no longer were individual mods.

 

So in all honesty, I'm not sure if the build I put up can be obtained without forma, at the very least, I'm going to say it needs one, but I'm not sure. It might not need any forma.

[Darzk]

If you're serious about doing long defenses you're going to need to forma the Aura to fit Corrosive Projection. If you're just playing in the 'fun' level range Rejuvination is fine.

 

 

And hell, sorry to respark this, but I'm reading this:

Personally I shoot for around 40 min. tops in survivals, so enemy levels are around level 40-50(depending on the tier), and if my build can maintain in that range then it's viable, because it's within the maximum enemy level set by the devs.

as simply 'I don't challenge myself'. People asking for advice and help are generally looking for advice relevant to taking on challenging content (at least to them). While advice for a high level build works well enough at lower levels, the opposite is not true, so it's generally assumed that the OP is looking for builds for challenging content. If it was easy, it wouldn't matter how you built the frame.

 

But more to the point re:BR, there is no reason to build for a globe that's 50% stronger but twice as expensive when you can just cast 2 of the cheaper globe. Given that Freeze and IW are mostly utility skills and we care little for their damage, efficiency is also a priority for those abilities (and no one cares about Avalanche, tbh).

First of all, I was arguing against the fact that you said "ever". That was an opinion. You are building your globe around efficiency, I'm building my globe around tankiness. Those are two completely different play styles and saying something is not viable ever is flawed and narrow minded thinking. Just because it's not viable for your build style does not mean it's not viable for my build style.

And yet the more efficient globe *is* tankier, because SG allows recasts within the duration timer. I actually used to build with Blind Rage myself till I sat down and looked at the numbers - and realized it wasn't a playstyle difference, it was just wrong. Inefficient, if you will.

 

Now I can see an argument for using Blind Rage on an offensive Frost (Lining up IW essentially removes spammability, Avalanche has annoying cast time, Freeze longer CC under fire, etc). Just not when building to prioritize Snowglobe.

 

Again, OP, sorry to bring you into this minefield. Perfecting a Frost build has always been a matter of much contention and debate. Check out this old thread (lots of good info in here most still relevant[no new mods]): https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/219997-frost-need-help-with-build/

 

Beware, it's like reading a book tho. And we still had ability mods then. But you can see my opinion gradually shift towards efficiency, it's rather amusing (at least to me). The argument for a 25 energy globe is based on energy restoration from orbs, which was basically the only source of energy at the time, and Carrier, which everyone used. Its not as valid today with restores, EV, Limbo etc, and Kubrows changing the companion dynamic.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Darzk

[GhostSwordsman]

But more to the point re:BR, there is no reason to build for a globe that's 50% stronger but twice as expensive when you can just cast 2 of the cheaper globe. Given that Freeze and IW are mostly utility skills and we care little for their damage, efficiency is also a priority for those abilities (and no one cares about Avalanche, tbh).

I'd like to point out, that with my build (as can be seen by the mods I listed) I get a +15% power efficiency bonus, so my build still gets a globe that's twice as strong as one that uses intensify and it still costs less than unmodded snow globe.

 

The build I have is meant to balance between defensiveness (snow globe) and being offensive (mainly Ice wave and sometimes avalance) and I've found that the combination of mods I'm using works quite well for it.

 

I apologize for see Frost as much more than a one trick pony.

 

Also, excuse me for suggesting something that goes against the meta. (harsh statement, but I'm just trying to defend the point that while Frost's snow globe is good(probably his best skill) you can still build around it and somewhat prioritize it without making it the only focus of the build in a different way than the meta)

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[GhostSwordsman]

And yet the more efficient globe *is* tankier, because SG allows recasts within the duration timer. I actually used to build with Blind Rage myself till I sat down and looked at the numbers - and realized it wasn't a playstyle difference, it was just wrong. Inefficient, if you will.

Inefficient =/= wrong, and saying so is flawed thinking.

 

...but I'm reading this:

as simply 'I don't challenge myself'. People asking for advice and help are generally looking for advice relevant to taking on challenging content (at least to them). While advice for a high level build works well enough at lower levels, the opposite is not true, so it's generally assumed that the OP is looking for builds for challenging content. If it was easy, it wouldn't matter how you built the frame.

It's not 'I don't challenge myself', it's building within the limits set by the creators. I do enjoy reaching higher than the norm, but I don't do it often, so I don't make my main builds specialize in one particular thing, and I don't balance for endless content(which no one can feasibly do anyway).

 

Also, the OP was asking about ways to build Frost Prime, and he/she states that he/she has never played Frost before, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest a build that might not hold up as well against the 'meta' builds when faced with 'challenging'(a term that is subjective) content.

 

Edit: I do play more for 'fun' than for super long defenses and 287 minute survivals, if that offers anything worthwhile to help justify why I use what I use in my build.

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[xyLoneZ]

Globe with only Intensify and Steel Fiber have 6.5k HP and costs 12.5 energy.

With max BR, you are looking at 10k HP and increasing the costs to 32.5 energy.

 

Looking at the number alone, you can see that Globe without BR is obviously better. When you factor in the immunity duration and the HP you absorb while your globe is still immune, the non-BR build becomes disgustingly better.

That's why it's a fact, not an opinion. You can put lower rank BR or whatever but the result will be the same.

 

I apologize for see Frost as much more than a one trick pony.

Now you're just being ignorant. Nobody ever said about frost being a one trick pony. It's just that you're wrong about globe.

 

My build:http://goo.gl/Ms1z9L

Primed Continuity for Ice Wave augment mod, and rush for moving faster. Honestly though, you can put pretty much anything in the last 3 slots, since the core mods are just FE + Stream + Intensify + Steel Fiber + Redir/Vit. I like going shields on Frost even though you will get more EHP by equipping Vit, simply because you have globe.

Edited December 20, 2014 by xyLoneZ

[izzatuw]

My build which requires Ice Wave impedance. I use Ice wave Impedance to make the ice wider than usual.

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Frost_prime/t_30_030004404_2-5-9-4-7-5-5-0-2-16-4-5-37-8-5-38-6-5-55-1-5-477-2-3-479-3-8_5-6-55-6-477-9-479-12-16-11-2-6-38-5-4-9-37-14_23/en/1-0-8

Edited December 20, 2014 by izzatuw

[GhostSwordsman]

Globe with only Intensify and Steel Fiber have 6.5k HP and costs 12.5 energy.

With max BR, you are looking at 10k HP and increasing the costs to 32.5 energy.

I was never talking about the max corrupted mods. I'd never run a max BR on Frost, hence why in my earlier posts I said one can use the corrupted mods to their benfit if they can find a balance between them, not by maxing the mods and slapping them on the frame. Kind of the point of corrupted mods, more power, efficiency, duration, etc. for a negative trade off. And you can get more out of corrupted mods over their non-corrupted counterparts if you can balance them out.

 

Looking at the number alone, you can see that Globe without BR is obviously better. When you factor in the immunity duration and the HP you absorb while your globe is still immune, the non-BR build becomes disgustingly better.

That's why it's a fact, not an opinion. You can put lower rank BR or whatever but the result will be the same.

How can someone be wrong about something if they are given the tools to build it however they want? The whole point of the modding system is to allow us to build warframes how we see them to fit best, so technicallly, in most cases, no single person is wrong with a build compared to another.

 

You also completely ignored the reason I pointed out for saying that it was your opinion.

 

Now you're just being ignorant. Nobody ever said about frost being a one trick pony. It's just that you're wrong about globe.

Not being ignorant, acting off of the implications you all are giving by focusing in on snow globe an min/maxing for that one power.

 

 

I guess you skipped over the part where I said I play more for fun, rather than for serious and super long defenses and 287 minute survivals.

Edit: I do play more for 'fun' than for super long defenses and 287 minute survivals, if that offers anything worthwhile to help justify why I use what I use in my build.

 

 

Edit: My entire point is that you don't always have to build the 'meta' which is focused on 'endgame'. Endgame being super long defenses and 287 minute(an exaggeration if you couldn't tell by now) survivals. And not building the meta doesn't make me or anyone else wrong for doing so.

Edited December 20, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[SlapClown]

Try this build