Why Not Focus More On The Things That Make The Game Better?

[Innocent_Flower]

So in an update (not including bugfixes) we're likely to get new content in the form of

- Weapons

- Cosmetics

- Tactical alerts. 

- a new frame/wing

- New prime items. 

 

Now that's cool and all, but it seems inefficient. You're putting a lot of work into something that's effecting only a tiny percentage of the gameplay. A new warframe? You'l see him in play 1/23rd of the time (give or take depending on what missions you do and how it's unlocked) A tactical alert? you'l have a couple of days to do it and then you'l not see it again. New prime items? Remind me why you want to encourage us to play void, when the corrupted aren't yet a well made faction. Now; Quite rightly some of you will write "but they need to make these things so that they can sell them to make money". Correct, but wrong. If DE wants profit, they need a bigger playerbase, and they can get a bigger playerbase by doing the right thing and focusing all their efforts on making a fun game. 

 

The best updates for the game are: 

1-Updating missions to be better and more replayable. 

2-Giving old enemies new features to make them more interesting to fight. (or making new enemies with existing assets) 

3-Rebalancing. Be it fixing the difficulty, bettering a weapon too weak for it's cost, retouching on a weapon too strong for the game. Changing the mod system so that more mods are relevant. 

4-Updating mechanics like movement or AI, Low gravity, nightmare mode. Invasions. 

5- UI. Edit: Necessary UI. Less visual improvements and more functional improvements. 

6-Adding new enemies with original assets. But might I add that making bosses (who you only fight once or so) is inefficient as you rarely see that boss (whilst a common unit will be seen on most missions. Also locking a boss behind an artificial grind wall is... not helping the game)

 

Adding a new weapon or cosmetic is fine, but it'd be exponentially better to have that new weapon or cosmetic put in the hands of an enemy or ally and designed to improve the way the game plays. 

 

Now those kind of updates add value to the game. If you keep just adding the odd weapon or such, you'l get phases where players only log in to get the new item, and then will turn off warframe and wait till the next big things comes across (i'm in one of those now, i've been in two before, and one time I just stopped even logging in. A kubrow was sacrificed. Dark times. Dark times.)  You don't have to be PVP to get players playing just for the enjoyment of it, you need better gamemodes, better enemies. Look at the examples of killing floor, or payday, or l4d. Stop adding new gimicks and salvage the ones you have. I'm well aware that you've got separate teams for different things; Have them all focus on important things. No more Rotation C items or mini-games

 

Just focus on the gameplay, and let the money flow in like the playerbase: just do the thing

Edited December 25, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[CTanGod]

I honestly think that the only thing DE should improve (in my opinion as a veteran) is that they should add more enemy units and game modes such as corpus having Hyennas and Zanukas as heavies and maybe paid mercenaries.

 

As for game modes I would love the idea of having to pilot a fighter ship in a space battle and destroy the cores of grinner galleons and fomorians.

[xRufus7x]

Fun fact. Different teams do different things. The people making weapons are in no way responsible for gameplay changes.

[Sasquatchias]

DE really need to start making enemies that utilize the vast array of weaponry that the Factions don't actually use. 

 

Not a single Corpus unit wields the Serro, Tetra, OPticor, or Quanta. 

 

Not a single Grineer unit uses the Grinlok, Buzlok, Dual Cleavers, Kohm, Drakgoon, Marelock, or Twin Gremlins (I have not fought the G-3 enough to know if they wield Brakk.)

 

And the best part is that for most of those weapons you don't really have to create a new unit, you can just switch out weapons. 

 

Elite Crewmen at higher levels can wield Quantas, Grineer can have a variation of Drakgoon or Kohm instead of Sobek, Seekers can use Marelock, etc...

Edited December 24, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[immolator1001]

Besides constant enemy reviews DE does all of these things. Why do you think the changes and fixes section are several toms longer than the additions, even including all the spaces and pictures in additions?

[TheStag]

DE really need to start making enemies that utilize the vast array of weaponry that the Factions don't actually use.

Not a single Corpus unit wields the Serro, Tetra, OPticor, or Quanta.

Not a single Grineer unit uses the Grinlok, Buzlok, Dual Cleavers, Kohm, Drakgoon, Marelock, or Twin Gremlins (I have not fought the G-3 enough to know if they wield Brakk.)

And the best part is that for most of those weapons you don't really have to create a new unit, you can just switch out weapons.

Elite Crewmen at higher levels can wield Quantas, Grineer can have a variation of Drakgoon or Kohm instead of Sobek, Seekers can use Marelock, etc...

Archwing enemies wield the quanta and penta.

Also one of the g3 wield the marelok.

Research before post pls.

Edited December 24, 2014 by TheStag

[unknow99]

Fun fact. Different teams do different things. The people making weapons are in no way responsible for gameplay changes.

That's true. The team responsible of gameplay should focus on old stuff more though...

 

If we keep getting tenno reinforcements, new frames, new primaries,new secondaries,new melee, new shiny things,new sigils,new emblems... But old issues stay, it'll stack again & again & again... It would be like ironing a shirt with dust on it. :/

 

Maybe it's just a feeling, but a lot more people are being aware of that tendency. D.E. seems to add more short-term things than long-term.

This results in vets (like OP & myself,not so long ago) to leave=> see that there is a new event/weapon/frame interesting=> grind for it=> burnout from too much grind=>leave...(rinse & repeat)

[ThePresident777]

I would ask for:

1)  Weapon Tier Potatoes

2)  Taking the Crappy out of Mods

3)  Sniping That Matters

4)  Give Single Handed Weapons A fun Game Play Purpose

5)  World State Window Filter

6)  Advanced Tenno Tech for a Game about Advanced Tech

7) Revitalize our shopping malls before they go extinct.

8) Loadout Selection From Navigation, like we have in the malls.

9) Infest Infested Extermination

10) More Loadout Slots

11) End Death by sheathing Animation and other assorted clunk

12)  Make the Mastery Rank Test avaiable for practice.  soem fo those tests are fun in their own right.   Yey, we can't play them more than once unless we fail them contstantly and stop mastery rank up.

13)  Make nightmare mode challenges avaiable on a non-rng basis because fun game play shouldn't be locked behind a Maybe Wall.

14)  Change Warframe's design philosophy from box of toys to Box of Game Play Styles.  And stop the nerfs.  Let's have a variety of fun and well designed game play instead.

Edited December 24, 2014 by ThePresident777

[OverlordMcGeek]

DE really need to start making enemies that utilize the vast array of weaponry that the Factions don't actually use. 

 

Not a single Corpus unit wields the Serro, Tetra, OPticor, or Quanta. 

 

Not a single Grineer unit uses the Grinlok, Buzlok, Dual Cleavers, Kohm, Drakgoon, Marelock, or Twin Gremlins (I have not fought the G-3 enough to know if they wield Brakk.)

 

And the best part is that for most of those weapons you don't really have to create a new unit, you can just switch out weapons. 

 

Elite Crewmen at higher levels can wield Quantas, Grineer can have a variation of Drakgoon or Kohm instead of Sobek, Seekers can use Marelock, etc...

DESteve mentioned this at one point. The thing was new AI would need to be added so they can wield and behave "naturally" to new weapons given to them.

 

Brakks for commanders!

[Innocent_Flower]

Fun fact. Different teams do different things. The people making weapons are in no way responsible for gameplay changes.

Yo dawg. I see you don't like reading much. I'l rephrase something

Put more teammembers on more important things. 

 

Besides constant enemy reviews DE does all of these things. Why do you think the changes and fixes section are several toms longer than the additions, even including all the spaces and pictures in additions?

Changes in the change logs are almost always bugfixes or tiny tweaks to something recently released. 

 

Archwing enemies wield the quanta and penta.

Also one of the g3 wield the marelok.

Research before post pls.

Archwing enemies aren't part of the standard gameplay, nor is G3

 

14)  Change Warframe's design philosophy from box of toys to Box of Game Play Styles.  And stop the nerfs.  Let's have a variety of fun and well designed game play instead.

Not wanting your  gun to be nerfed is understandable, but in a lot of cases you only got that gun because it was so powerful. Then everyone's all like "my boar sucks, it should be as good as boltor". Because the ceiling is getting higher, the floor gets higher too. ypu get things like t4 and tougher enemies and although everyone's now happy with their super guns they're upset that there's no super-enemies (and when there are super enemies, they'l want more super-guns) It's a silly process because balance is just getting more and more difficult to obtain. A few decisive nerfs can sort S#&$ out.  

 

TwiceDead explains it well.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[TwiceDead]

14)  Change Warframe's design philosophy from box of toys to Box of Game Play Styles.  And stop the nerfs.  Let's have a variety of fun and well designed game play instead.

 

Nerfs(and buffs) are mandatory tools to be used in the strive towards well designed gameplay. 

Edited December 24, 2014 by TwiceDead

[(PSN)Pharen]

Nerfs(and buffs) are mandatory tools to be used in the strive towards well designed gameplay. 

I think the big problem here with nerfs and buffs, is people look at DPS for nerfs and buffs, where they should be looking at putting weapons into roles. Snipers should do massive damage, but be difficult to aim at long range, and only be able to be fired accurately from scope. Shotguns should do massive damage, but have high damage fall off, and low accuracy. Rifles need to be moderate damage and good mid range accuracy, and so on. This is a problem a lot of devs forget, tune weapons for there roles not for balanced DPS. Tuning every weapon for DPS ruins a game, because it means people can use one weapon in all scenarios, therefore negating the viability of others.

[Mokkania]

yo bro, I'm not criticizing anything but I sort of need to check what you think about the way you throw out your threads.

 

do we need to once again have this discussion here?

Edited December 25, 2014 by Mokkania

[VooDooG5]

1.) Fix the glitching Carrier problem. Everyone hates not being able to use a skill while 14 blue energy orbs are floating over your head, and your energy count is 10.

 

2.) Fix the Kubrow mapping. Sentinels already stay behind you, yet our Kubrows still park their heads directly in front of our rifle bores. If we move up to cover, so do they. It's as if they want to block your round/arrow.

 

3.) Two words. Spawn armor. Spawn Armor. SPAWN ARMOR!!!

[ThePresident777]

Nefs and Buffs are not game design.  Here is game design:

 

I would ask for:

1)  Weapon Tier Potatoes

2)  Taking the Crappy out of Mods

3)  Sniping That Matters

4)  Give Single Handed Weapons A fun Game Play Purpose

5)  World State Window Filter

6)  Advanced Tenno Tech for a Game about Advanced Tech

7) Revitalize our shopping malls before they go extinct.

8) Loadout Selection From Navigation, like we have in the malls.

9) Infest Infested Extermination

10) More Loadout Slots

11) End Death by sheathing Animation and other assorted clunk

12)  Make the Mastery Rank Test avaiable for practice.  soem fo those tests are fun in their own right.   Yey, we can't play them more than once unless we fail them contstantly and stop mastery rank up.

13)  Make nightmare mode challenges avaiable on a non-rng basis because fun game play shouldn't be locked behind a Maybe Wall.

14)  Change Warframe's design philosophy from box of toys to Box of Game Play Styles.  And stop the nerfs.  Let's have a variety of fun and well designed game play instead.

[OverlordMcGeek]

I think the big problem here with nerfs and buffs, is people look at DPS for nerfs and buffs, where they should be looking at putting weapons into roles. Snipers should do massive damage, but be difficult to aim at long range, and only be able to be fired accurately from scope. Shotguns should do massive damage, but have high damage fall off, and low accuracy. Rifles need to be moderate damage and good mid range accuracy, and so on. This is a problem a lot of devs forget, tune weapons for there roles not for balanced DPS. Tuning every weapon for DPS ruins a game, because it means people can use one weapon in all scenarios, therefore negating the viability of others.

Also why do shotguns even have fall-off damage? In truth they don't, or at least all guns do but not at the weird range that they segregate shotguns at.

[Kruglov]

I would rather have warframe balance updates than bugfixes or new stuff or even redone features.

 

Still waiting for Nekros and Ember to do more than 1 useful thing each.

[Innocent_Flower]

I would rather have warframe balance updates than bugfixes or new stuff or even redone features.

 

Still waiting for Nekros and Ember to do more than 1 useful thing each.

Leave nekky alone, though that ember comment seems pretty fair. I would have picked on frost for being a one button guy, or saryn for being all-round useless. 

[vaugahn]

Nefs and Buffs are not game design.  Here is game design:

 

You're right. They're game balance, which is just as important.

[Kuboy]

I would ask for:

1)  Weapon Tier Potatoes

2)  Taking the Crappy out of Mods

3)  Sniping That Matters

4)  Give Single Handed Weapons A fun Game Play Purpose

5)  World State Window Filter

6)  Advanced Tenno Tech for a Game about Advanced Tech

7) Revitalize our shopping malls before they go extinct.

8) Loadout Selection From Navigation, like we have in the malls.

9) Infest Infested Extermination

10) More Loadout Slots

11) End Death by sheathing Animation and other assorted clunk

12)  Make the Mastery Rank Test avaiable for practice.  soem fo those tests are fun in their own right.   Yey, we can't play them more than once unless we fail them contstantly and stop mastery rank up.

13)  Make nightmare mode challenges avaiable on a non-rng basis because fun game play shouldn't be locked behind a Maybe Wall.

14)  Change Warframe's design philosophy from box of toys to Box of Game Play Styles.  And stop the nerfs.  Let's have a variety of fun and well designed game play instead.

Sweet mother of toasters. This is so well put I don't ever want to read another thread

[Kruglov]

Leave nekky alone,

 

No.

Soul Punch is a bad version of a better ability Banshee has.

Terrify is bad if you mod for Desecrate.

Desecrate costs far too much mana, forcing you to mod for it if you intend to use it more than once every minute.

His ghosts block teammates.

His ghosts block your teams gunfire.

You cannot shoot THROUGH the ghosts.

His ghosts can't prioritize objectives.

His ghosts take an incredibly long time to cast.

His ghosts make it very hard to see, no matter what color you choose.

His ghosts need both strength AND duration to use properly, which hurts his ability to use Desecrate and Terrify.

 

 

People need to stop thinking Nekros is ok as he is simply because he makes the worst game-mode in warframe (survival) bearable by being present.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Kruglov

[taiiat]

-snip-

you, and everyone that upvoted that Post, clearly don't understand how Software Development Pipelines work at all.

 

because everything said there is completely wrong.

'stop Development of a game and do one thing instead' is the most HI-lariously wrong, uneducated statement that far too many people seem to think is correct. when it's completely wrong.

 

 

please don't instruct others on how to manage the Development Process if you don't understand it yourself.

[Innocent_Flower]

you, and everyone that upvoted that Post, clearly don't understand how Software Development Pipelines work at all.

 

because everything said there is completely wrong.

'stop Development of a game and do one thing instead' is the most HI-lariously wrong, uneducated statement that far too many people seem to think is correct. when it's completely wrong.

 

 

please don't instruct others on how to manage the Development Process if you don't understand it yourself.

Didn't say "and do one thing instead". Well done for poor generalizing. 

 

There's a list of things to do that require all kinds of developers to work on. 

Developers can literally Drop what they're doing and work on something else (preferably something that has greater impact on the game). What they were working on earlier doesn't go away, they can come back to it when the more important things are finished. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[vaugahn]

Didn't say "and do one thing instead". Well done for poor generalizing. 

 

There's a list of things to do that require all kinds of developers to work on. 

Developers can literally Drop what they're doing and work on something else (preferably something that has greater impact on the game). What they were working on earlier doesn't go away, they can come back to it when the more important things are finished. 

 

I think you're missing the point. 

 

Just to take an example from the OP, you listed weapons in the "bad" category and UI in the "good" category.

 

Weapons require a model, an animation, probably a bit of rigging and a pass from a balance guy. The UI is worked on by the UI guys. The animator and modeler and balance guy can keep on cranking out new weapons totally independent of work done on the UI, because the UI devs have nothing to do with that process. The same can be applied to pretty much everything you listed.

 

Beyond that, there are multiple devs of each kind, each with their own specialties. You mentioned bosses in the "good" category, and you might say "well, those modelers should stop working on guns and start doing bosses!" However from the devstreams, we know there are modelers who specialize in character design, and they're the ones who work on bosses.

 

Basically, let the devs work.

Edited December 25, 2014 by vaugahn

[Innocent_Flower]

Blah

You're misunderstandin, though partialy from my poor writing. 

 

Those guys who work on weapons could disperse into both character and level design teams. Maybe the weapon and character teams could become one so that new weapons that come with new gameplay come with characters who provide new gameplay. 

I probably shouldn't have mentioned UI. I'm aware that they can work independently. 

 

(unique bosses are bad, common bosses are good)