Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[Tyrian3k]

Everyone saying "not so easy" keeps rebuffing with a "I'm not very good at the game, dammit" explanation for why they can't resolve things the easy way.

 

Perhaps there needs to be more of a content lock to keep the lesser players away from nullifiers until they get good enough?

 

Maybe you should try killing a constellation of Gunners, Bombards and Nullifiers at 40+ minutes in T4 with something like a Latron Prime or similar weapons before calling others "not very good at the game". And remember to do it as a host so that enemies have just about perfect aim as well.

 

And don't give me something like "Don't use a Latron". That kind of weapon shouldn't just turn into an invalid choice because of Nullifiers.

[Renegade343]

Maybe you should try killing a constellation of Gunners, Bombards and Nullifiers at 40+ minutes in T4 with something like a Latron Prime or similar weapons before calling others "not very good at the game". And remember to do it as a host so that enemies have just about perfect aim as well.

You know, I never understand what is it with players stating that enemies having perfect aim. 

 

Granted, I only played up to thirty minutes in a T4 Survival, but those Lanka shots can still be dodged.

[geninrising]

Wow.  Um, what?  Get over yourself and stop taking the game so seriously.  So there is an enemy that is strong against your favourite weapon.  So what?  Find another way to deal with them.  Use your secondary, melee, team-mates, companions, specters...

 

In my opinion, it pretty much was.

1. MY ENTIRE ROSTER OF WEAPONS YOU MEAN. Excuse my personal preference being influential on my playstyle.

 

2. The comment illustrates precisely what it states. DE has created a circumstance that completely negates the philosophy they have drilled into us from the beginning of the game. Thus we must look at DE's integrity on this matter as they have stated time and again that they want players to have the freedom to choose how they handle a given situation. By subsequently removing said choice they are being hypocritical at best, at worst outright liars.

 

Being truthful about a matter is not DEv bashing. Critiquing design implementation is not DEv bashing. The only thing I did in the statement is point out the ignorance of saying one thing the entire time we have played the game and then committing an action that runs completely counter to that statement. This is precisely like DE stating that the infinite energy loophole is being exploited which is unintended and then not fixing it.

 

Further more the comment did not directly insult a single entity nor did it contain vulgar language or any statement that was untrue. There was no libel or slander committed in the comment and therefore it can only be viewed as criticism which is precisely what the Feedback system is for. Feedback by it's very nature points to flaws to direct corrective action where it is necessary and demonstrates precisely how leaving such matters unchanged will affect the image they have as developers.

[Tyrian3k]

You know, I never understand what is it with players stating that enemies having perfect aim. 

 

Granted, I only played up to thirty minutes in a T4 Survival, but those Lanka shots can still be dodged.

You can see what it is about in this post

[geninrising]

How about we try this logic on for size and see what kind of taste it leaves in High ROF users mouths.

 

Let's have DE change how the bubble reacts to weapons. Let's force High ROF users to suffer the same problems that low ROF users have had to put up with since introduction of nullifiers.

 

Have the bubble have High ROF weapons require precisely the same amount of time it takes for low rof weapons to destroy the bubble approximately 9 seconds rather than the 3 or 4 seconds they can do currently.

 

Strike that if we want to make it fair trade then low ROF users need to have a marked benefit for the length of the test.

 

So lets make it low ROF weapons destroy the shield in 2 shots requiring a 3rd to kill the target that puts it at about 4 seconds which is how fast a Boltor Prime can kill nullifiers atm.

 

So again 9 seconds vs 4 seconds and lets see where High ROF users stand in a single week.

I can guarantee you will switch sides unless you are just obstinately angry at me for suggesting said change.

 

The reason you would switch sides is because you would patently see the unfair quality of the action ONLY if you were affected by it.

Edited January 28, 2015 by geninrising

[Renegade343]

You can see what it is about in this post

Thing is, that really only applies to Elite Crewmen during host. 

 

Almost all the other enemies have accuracy affected by movement (especially all the other Corpus troops). 

[Tyrian3k]

Thing is, that really only applies to Elite Crewmen during host. 

 

Almost all the other enemies have accuracy affected by movement (especially all the other Corpus troops).

It applies to all enemies. Crewmen and MOAs lead their shots to hit you directly. Their shots hit way more often if you host/play solo.

Almost all Grineer use hitscan weapons and aim at you in the same way as that Elite Crewman. I've seen that all the time when playing solo in Corpus/Grineer Syndicate missions in comparison to joining other games.

[Renegade343]

It applies to all enemies. Crewmen and MOAs lead their shots to hit you directly. Their shots hit way more often if you host/play solo.

No, they do not. 

 

What they have now is a small lead for a target based on the direction and velocity said target is moving, in which that can be exploited to actually dodge the shots (not to mention that they have bad accuracy at long ranges). 

 

Almost all Grineer use hitscan weapons and aim at you in the same way as that Elite Crewman. I've seen that all the time when playing solo in Corpus/Grineer Syndicate missions in comparison to joining other games.

Lancers become inaccurate at long ranges. Elite Lancer shots can actually be dodged (and they have decreasing accuracy at mid-long ranges). Troopers just miss most of the time at mid-long ranges. Heavy Gunners are a bit of weird spot, but that is due to the increasing fire rate of the Gorgon. 

[Onihikage]

If nullifier shields were vulnerable to punch through, but only significant amounts of it (requiring Metal Auger/Seeking Force/Seeker), I think this whole problem would go away, because that's an existing solution requiring the player to either sacrifice some single-target DPS by putting a punch-through mod on, or use a weapon with a lot of innate punch-through, LIKE A BOW.

 

Also if the shield would just overload when it goes down and not come back on again, that'd be great.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Onihikage

[Akashia]

No, they do not. 

 

What they have now is a small lead for a target based on the direction and velocity said target is moving, in which that can be exploited to actually dodge the shots (not to mention that they have bad accuracy at long ranges). 

 

Lancers become inaccurate at long ranges. Elite Lancer shots can actually be dodged (and they have decreasing accuracy at mid-long ranges). Troopers just miss most of the time at mid-long ranges. Heavy Gunners are a bit of weird spot, but that is due to the increasing fire rate of the Gorgon. 

 

Yes they actually do, seems that last time I was hosting T4D, I have been killed several times by the Nullifiers' Sniper while I was sliding or moving or whatever I was doing.

And that never happened when I join others game.

[Monolake]

Everyone saying "not so easy" keeps rebuffing with a "I'm not very good at the game, dammit" explanation for why they can't resolve things the easy way.

 

Perhaps there needs to be more of a content lock to keep the lesser players away from nullifiers until they get good enough?

Perhaps you should try playing highlevels, your opinion is irrelevant till you get more experience with the game. 

[DoomFruit]

Lancers become inaccurate at long ranges. Elite Lancer shots can actually be dodged (and they have decreasing accuracy at mid-long ranges). Troopers just miss most of the time at mid-long ranges. Heavy Gunners are a bit of weird spot, but that is due to the increasing fire rate of the Gorgon.

I take a lot more damage in Draco from hitscan Grineer weapons when I'm hosting than when I'm joining. And this is during the cleanup phase at the end, when everyone's moving around rapidly. The host/client enemy accuracy discrepancy is well known.

[Slowyjoey]

Who cares how "hard" or easy Nullifiers are? They actively made the game less fun, thats far worse than being "too hard".

 

But Nullifiers aren't even hard, like all "challenging" things in Warfarm (not a misspelling), they are artificial difficulty, a walking gear check.

 

A brick wall with "stop having WRONG FUN" written on it.

[CapedBaldy]

I'm going to say right now that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for snipers that a unit can make not only himself, but everything else nigh immune to it.

 

Most of us don't even want to be 'accommodated' to. We just don't want to be hindered unreasonably when the game already disadvantages players with slow firing weapons by sending hordes. It is already almost mandatory to mod a Shred or a Metal Auger on snipers. In the end, our only real saving grace is our 'overkill' damage coupled with the accuracy.

 

A Nullifier then comes into play and sucks in all that 'overkill' damage down to 400. I can reach 400 damage with just a Serration on Vectis. Meanwhile, weapons that don't hit the 100 break point get their 'damage' buffed to 100. Some High RoF weapons break the 400 break point incredibly easily, getting the best of both worlds. That's a nice cushion for high RoF weapons, but where's the cushion for low RoF weapons? And I can't even use my 'overkill' damage against the other enemies because for some reason, this high priority target that spawns rather often and has nigh miniboss status can make everyone else strong against snipers.

 

In order not to waste my damage, I have to pop into the bubble, risking death from one shots and CC all the while, take a shot at the Nullifier, and run out, effectively losing the range specialty of snipers. By then it's better to just bring a Boltor Prime since the sniper niche is so disadvantaged to be in that bringing one is a liability rather than an asset. A Boltor Prime does the same job better, safer, faster and gives me more viable options, especially when you bring Nullifiers into play.

 

Come on, this is just being incredibly mean to anybody plays snipers. There's nearly no reason at all to use sniper when you strip away all their advantages by throwing ONE unit in play. If this in an attempt to shake up our strategies, you aren't really shaking up our tactics, you're just making us deviate to the already dominant Boltor Prime, Soma Prime strategy. And consequently, make anyone who invested heavily into low RoF weapons very unhappy.

 

Something about them has to change. Something about enemy design as a whole also has to change.

 

Oh, and it would help out a lot if they didn't one shot us so often so we have more room of error to do our stuff.

Edited January 28, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[Renegade343]

I take a lot more damage in Draco from hitscan Grineer weapons when I'm hosting than when I'm joining. And this is during the cleanup phase at the end, when everyone's moving around rapidly. The host/client enemy accuracy discrepancy is well known.

Strangely enough, for both host, solo and client, I get roughly the same damage dealt to me almost every mission. 

 

As in, a bit low at times, a bit high at other times, but generally within a set range. 

[geninrising]

Ok so let me repeat and see what taste is left in everyones mouth.

 

Change things for one week to where High ROF weapons take roughly 6-9 seconds to take out nullifier shields and allow High ROF to break them in three seconds as well as kill the nullifier. Then let's see if the naysayers for change flip sides.

 

This is patently obviously weighted for High ROF weaponry folks and you KNOW that is wrong. If you don't know get a clue.

Edited January 28, 2015 by geninrising

[Tyrian3k]

Strangely enough, for both host, solo and client, I get roughly the same damage dealt to me almost every mission. 

 

As in, a bit low at times, a bit high at other times, but generally within a set range. 

 

Then look right here next.

 

As you can see, this effect applies to all enemies. The shown MOA pretty much hits every shot when host while the Crewman misses all of them when not hosting in the example.

[Renegade343]

 

Then look right here next.

 

As you can see, this effect applies to all enemies. The shown MOA pretty much hits every shot when host while the Crewman misses all of them when not hosting in the example.

That is what I said earlier on: 

 

Corpus enemies will lead their shots to hit you. Use that knowledge to move quickly into the opposite direction to make them miss the shots. 

[CapedBaldy]

The shots aren't even being led. They're in the range where leading is not required for the movement speed Valkyr is at.

 

Most of us have poured every single thought, feelings and suggestions on this subject. We've already exhausted nearly all our feedback. There is almost nothing we can say about this topic without going back and looking at an or referring to an old post. We're just really tired and would like to see some form of change that involves less one shotting and less devaluing of sniper or low RoF weapons.

[Renegade343]

The shots aren't even being led. They're in the range where leading is not required for the movement speed Valkyr is at.

Yes, they are. 

 

Look closely at the start. You are going to need to lead a bit with projectile weapons to hit the target at the start, because by the time that projectile goes towards the position the target was, said target would have already left that area. 

[VDeorsum]

I'm going to say right now that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for snipers that a unit can make not only himself, but everything else nigh immune to it.

 

Most of us don't even want to be 'accommodated' to. We just don't want to be hindered unreasonably when the game already disadvantages players with slow firing weapons by sending hordes. It is already almost mandatory to mod a Shred or a Metal Auger on snipers. In the end, our only real saving grace is our 'overkill' damage coupled with the accuracy.

 

A Nullifier then comes into play and sucks in all that 'overkill' damage down to 400. I can reach 400 damage with just a Serration on Vectis. Meanwhile, weapons that don't hit the 100 break point get their 'damage' buffed to 100. Some High RoF weapons break the 400 break point incredibly easily, getting the best of both worlds. That's a nice cushion for high RoF weapons, but where's the cushion for low RoF weapons? And I can't even use my 'overkill' damage against the other enemies because for some reason, this high priority target that spawns rather often and has nigh miniboss status can make everyone else strong against snipers.

 

In order not to waste my damage, I have to pop into the bubble, risking death from one shots and CC all the while, take a shot at the Nullifier, and run out, effectively losing the range specialty of snipers. By then it's better to just bring a Boltor Prime since the sniper niche is so disadvantaged to be in that bringing one is a liability rather than an asset. A Boltor Prime does the same job better, safer, faster and gives me more viable options, especially when you bring Nullifiers into play.

 

Come on, this is just being incredibly mean to anybody plays snipers. There's nearly no reason at all to use sniper when you strip away all their advantages by throwing ONE unit in play. If this in an attempt to shake up our strategies, you aren't really shaking up our tactics, you're just making us deviate to the already dominant Boltor Prime, Soma Prime strategy. And consequently, make anyone who invested heavily into low RoF weapons very unhappy.

 

Something about them has to change. Something about enemy design as a whole also has to change.

 

Oh, and it would help out a lot if they didn't one shot us so often so we have more room of error to do our stuff.

Great post sir, really +10000

[-InV-igo95862]

Boltor Prime against Nullifier bubble: http://gfycat.com/BriefTestyGrizzlybear

 

9 shots. Only 15% of clip used

 

Latron Prime: http://gfycat.com/KindUnlinedGossamerwingedbutterfly

 

9 shots. 60% of clip used.

[Renegade343]

Latron Prime: http://gfycat.com/KindUnlinedGossamerwingedbutterfly

 

9 shots. 60% of clip used.

In which the last 6 shots is more than enough to kill off the Nullifier Crewmen (and with Shred, lots more enemies). 

[-InV-igo95862]

In which the last 6 shots is more than enough to kill off the Nullifier Crewmen (and with Shred, lots more enemies). 

 

Meanwhile Boltor Prime will kill Nullifier and all his allies without even needing Shred...

 

And what if there are two Nullifiers???

 

Oh oh... I think your Latron Prime needs to be reloaded...

[Renegade343]

Oh oh... I think your Latron Prime needs to be reloaded...

Swap new weapons, strategise, move around while reloading, use objects as cover etc..

 

I mean, there are the movement keys and other manoeuvres for a reason, other than being just there.