Nullifier Nerf

[Rehero]

Hell, if anything they need a nice buff. Make it so that you can not destroy the bubble and you have to kill it by shooting it in the back. 

I actually don't think I would mind if they ramped its durability up quite a bit and then shooting the bubble no longer eats your shot but instead reduces the damage taken by anything inside the bubble by a certain percentage. Anything to make the level of discomfort between weapon types even.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rehero

[Judgebanks]

Oh yeah?

 

Try to kill Nullifier without shooting the Shield... go inside:

 

 

Also, that does not solve the problem with the unranked/unmoded weapons.

Level 33, slide attack the one in front. Slam attack the one below if I see that correctly. Too often I see two bubbles when there's only one.

 

Also I prefer a Bo Prime for Void because of them.

 

Or Mindcontrol them. I hear that works through the bubble.

[Ishki88]

They need to be removed until DE can give us some lore.  Please explain to me how all of a sudden the Corpus have technology that can defuse EVERY LAST Warframe POWER.    Please explain to me how Hek destroying the Tenno Hookah Lounges...excuse me Relays is more impactful than the Corpus all of a sudden having technology ...not even technology.....a BUBBLE that can deflect/defuse all our powers.

 

So all of the events we have fought for..against the Corpus meant NOTHING because SOME HOW they still were able to create this......so the lotus wasn't aware of this huh?

 

It's freaking $&*&*#(%&....I'm down for a challenge...I always say that..but this enemy type is just stupid......wth so did the Corpus and The Stalker sit down and have a meeting?   Why didn't exiled Alad not steal this technology?  I mean this is better than aynthing they have created......

 

They need to be removed and put into an event...if we lose the event...they give every single corpus type a nullifier because that only makes sense........

 

This isn't a movie..or a cartoon......you don't give your goons ak-47s and you walk in with a bat

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Level 33, slide attack the one in front. Slam attack the one below if I see that correctly. Too often I see two bubbles when there's only one.

 

Also I prefer a Bo Prime for Void because of them.

 

Or Mindcontrol them. I hear that works through the bubble.

Was not so easy for the guy who was there.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/375343-post-your-oh-sht-moment/

[UltimateSpinDash]

They need to be removed until DE can give us some lore.  Please explain to me how all of a sudden the Corpus have technology that can defuse EVERY LAST Warframe POWER.    Please explain to me how Hek destroying the Tenno Hookah Lounges...excuse me Relays is more impactful than the Corpus all of a sudden having technology ...not even technology.....a BUBBLE that can deflect/defuse all our powers.

 

So all of the events we have fought for..against the Corpus meant NOTHING because SOME HOW they still were able to create this......so the lotus wasn't aware of this huh?

 

It's freaking $&*&*#(%&....I'm down for a challenge...I always say that..but this enemy type is just stupid......wth so did the Corpus and The Stalker sit down and have a meeting?   Why didn't exiled Alad not steal this technology?  I mean this is better than aynthing they have created......

 

They need to be removed and put into an event...if we lose the event...they give every single corpus type a nullifier because that only makes sense........

 

This isn't a movie..or a cartoon......you don't give your goons ak-47s and you walk in with a bat

 

If Alad V can build Zanuka out of Warframe parts, it's only a matter of time until the Corpus, who fought against and alongside the Tenno numerous times, have found a way to counter Warframe abilities in an area.

 

Different question, what if entering the bubble didn't remove some abilities, like invisibilty and Iron Skin instantly, but drains them considerably faster? Like for every second you are in the bubble, you lose 10% of your Iron Skin.

Not sure if that would make it too easy.

[Kartumterek]

If Alad V can build Zanuka out of Warframe parts, it's only a matter of time until the Corpus, who fought against and alongside the Tenno numerous times, have found a way to counter Warframe abilities in an area.

 

Different question, what if entering the bubble didn't remove some abilities, like invisibilty and Iron Skin instantly, but drains them considerably faster? Like for every second you are in the bubble, you lose 10% of your Iron Skin.

Not sure if that would make it too easy.

Shhh... all the Darvo groupies who are in denial about him selling Salad V the majority of his Warframe inventory are gonna tremble in their little booties... and OF COURSE Salad was the one experimenting on Frames, amirite?

[Rockerfox]

They need to be removed until DE can give us some lore.  Please explain to me how all of a sudden the Corpus have technology that can defuse EVERY LAST Warframe POWER.    Please explain to me how Hek destroying the Tenno Hookah Lounges...excuse me Relays is more impactful than the Corpus all of a sudden having technology ...not even technology.....a BUBBLE that can deflect/defuse all our powers.

 

So all of the events we have fought for..against the Corpus meant NOTHING because SOME HOW they still were able to create this......so the lotus wasn't aware of this huh?

 

It's freaking $&*&*#(%&....I'm down for a challenge...I always say that..but this enemy type is just stupid......wth so did the Corpus and The Stalker sit down and have a meeting?   Why didn't exiled Alad not steal this technology?  I mean this is better than aynthing they have created......

 

They need to be removed and put into an event...if we lose the event...they give every single corpus type a nullifier because that only makes sense........

 

This isn't a movie..or a cartoon......you don't give your goons ak-47s and you walk in with a bat

 

Ok ok, lets get one thing straight, they have had this tech for a while.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Alad_V  Go look at the wiki. Then look under Zanuka. You will see an ability called Dispell Bomb which can cause many of the active powers to go haywire. This was the first step in creating the nullifier. The corpus at that point noticed from them fighting Zanuka countless times that the nullifier bomb is effective but needs a much better way to be deployed. 

 

Fast forward to the Zanuka Hunter http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zanuka_Hunter Very similar powers now designed to go out in the field in limited numbers. They had a personal nullifier that proved effective at stopping things such as mag's pull but not other powers so the corpus green lit the project to make power nullifier devices more portable, more powerful and readily available.

 

 With enough captured frames the corpus were able to study how the powers worked and eventually a way to more effectively cancel them out. Over time and spending countless credits they made a portable field that is similar to the power used by the Zanukas but instead made to project a more stable field which could also block a few shots thanks to the Corpus's advanced shielding tech. 

 

As for the void enemies, it turns out that the fields do very little if anything to stop the effect of the towers corrupting nanites. 

 

Meanwhile the Lotus didn't care because the weakness of the field is a fast firing weapon which she figured were in massive supply and every Tenno carried them along with their main bang stick and instead looked more toward the threat of having the shiny new outpost blow up. 

 

On the Grineer side they made a hammer that can knock weapons out of the Tenno's hands which cost a 1/100th of what the nullifiers cost to develop and make. Turns out if you just deprive the Tenno of the weapons they carry while throwing so many clones at them that they use up all their energy you don;t have to worry about nullifying their powers! Mm mm mm, clones. 

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rockerfox

[dragonkingdx]

Ok ok, lets get one thing straight, they have had this tech for a while.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Alad_V  Go look at the wiki. Then look under Zanuka. You will see an ability called Dispell Bomb which can cause many of the active powers to go haywire. This was the first step in creating the nullifier. The corpus at that point noticed from them fighting Zanuka countless times that the nullifier bomb is effective but needs a much better way to be deployed. 

 

Fast forward to the Zanuka Hunter http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zanuka_Hunter Very similar powers now designed to go out in the field in limited numbers. They had a personal nullifier that proved effective at stopping things such as mag's pull but not other powers so the corpus green lit the project to make power nullifier devices more portable, more powerful and readily available.

 

 With enough captured frames the corpus were able to study how the powers worked and eventually a way to more effectively cancel them out. Over time and spending countless credits they made a portable field that is similar to the power used by the Zanukas but instead made to project a more stable field which could also block a few shots thanks to the Corpus's advanced shielding tech. 

 

As for the void enemies, it turns out that the fields do very little if anything to stop the effect of the towers corrupting nanites. 

 

Meanwhile the Lotus didn't care because the weakness of the field is a fast firing weapon which she figured were in massive supply and every Tenno carried them along with their main bang stick and instead looked more toward the threat of having the shiny new outpost blow up. 

 

On the Grineer side they made a hammer that can knock weapons out of the Tenno's hands which cost a 1/100th of what the nullifiers cost to develop and make. Turns out if you just deprive the Tenno of the weapons they carry while throwing so many clones at them that they use up all their energy you don;t have to worry about nullifying their powers! Mm mm mm, clones. 

 

or the stalker finally had enough of being the loner that he is, and gave the corpus the teachings of the dispel skill.Which they then used with their already existing technology to make nullifier crewman. Woo-hoo team up *insert alad and stalker high five meme*

[ravend]

Last time i checked the enemy didnt need to send there plans to screw you over. Both sides have learned to adapt to us and we to them. its the nature of warfare on all levels. Do you expect the grineer and the corpus and infested to being cut down by us without end. Study/adapt/overcome these are the basis of warfare everyone from when man first sticks and rocks to guns and grenades.  The grineer have someone that can take our weapons away,The corpus have someone that can take our powers away. Both sets have enemys that copy our powers (in a limited set, maybe the infested, beeen awhile since i fought them). The enemy is learning and growing to match us, as we are learning to take them down. Learn and adapt tenno, the road of war only gets bumper from here. These new enemies are but part of a larger conflict coming down the road. Will you study/adapt/overcome or will you sit in the back craddling a weapon loadout that wont work.

[Rockerfox]

or the stalker finally had enough of being the loner that he is, and gave the corpus the teachings of the dispel skill.Which they then used with their already existing technology to make nullifier crewman. Woo-hoo team up *insert alad and stalker high five meme*

 

Ehh, i doubt the stalker would do that. I mean he hates the Tenno but he isn't stupid, he knows as soon as they are gone the Grineer and Corpus will spend all their time hunting him down down next because "he is the last Tenno and will turn on us". It's more of an mutual and temporary agreement between him and the two main factios, he gets to hunt down the Tenno for revenge and gets payed to do so, the Grineer and Corpus stay off his back while he hamstrings the Tenno.

 

The more likely explanation is just that the Corpus put a massive amount of time and effort to expand the tech they already had thinking it would be a game changer and well....it kinda worked....until Mr/Ms Tenno comes running down a hallway screaming and bowls every corpus over nullifier or no with either an explosive weapon, a high fire rate one or a melee weapon. 

 

I don't know, i still like the Grineer's plan better of "throw hammer that disarms weapons and then throw more clones until whole room is blocked with dead bodies and Tenno can't move". Probably is a lot cheaper in the long run. 

[Insanityman]

However there are weapons that are effective in almost every situation, Boltor prime, Soma prime and the like. All of which are extremely common place and yet this mechanic punishes weapons that are not effective in nearly half the situations as the aforementioned weapons and they are the only ones that suffer to such an extreme due to the shields. So I ask again what does changing the shield do to negatively impact your gameplay experience? If it doesn't hurt you to have it changed, and it is a quality of life upgrade for slow firing weapons how is that a problem?

 

I must again state that it has been mentioned to be bugged, if the bug fix comes through and slow firing weapons are capable of dispatching the shield in a timely manner, doesn't even need to be very fast, then we will be happy.

 

The only reason this thread is as big as it is, is due to people continually coming in and belittling those of us that would prefer to use slow firing weapons, of which most get left in the dust damage wise by the weapons that can already dispatch the shield quickly. This again raises the question why does this mechanic need to remain the same if all it does is punish weapons that don't perform nearly as well as other weapons?

 

On the topic of swapping element types, swapping mod loadouts is vastly different than pulling an entire weapon out of your loadout because the mobs mechanics serve only to punish an inefficient weapon archtype.

I think you may just have stumbled onto a major discovery.  We can solve a lot of problems with one fell swoop right here. 

 

We keep the "death by volume of fire" mechanic, but we turn the tables a little bit.  We upscale the number of bullets needed to drop the shield by a factor of 15 or 20, then we upscale the effectiveness of the semi autos by the same, and the snipers/bows by double, leaving the machine guns in the dust.  Then, when we have BoltorP and SomaP users complaining about an unfair mechanic singling them out for a penalty, we might get an admission or two that things are broken, aaaaand we slow down some of the damage that BoltorP is doing to the game. 

 

As for the bug, I haven't seen it since the patch that claims that they added a multiplier for harder hitting weapons to count as more bullets.  Maybe it's because I end up host most of the time.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

Nuliffs need to be reworked. They still gate damage and shots crapping on your weapons, having to shoot them minimum 6 times and shield having slow time shrinking makes them worse than lvl100 bullet sponges especially on slower-firing weapons.

 

And about removing all the frame powers  - has been said 100 times already. Why do we have abilities at all if one enemy makes them useless?  Its an undoing of all the years of building up this game, creating 20+ varied frames with varied abilities. 

 

 

You're way-over-exagerrating the nullifier's ability.  We need an enemy that acts as a checkmate vs the Tenno.  And we have one.

[ravend]

You're way-over-exagerrating the nullifier's ability.  We need an enemy that acts as a checkmate vs the Tenno.  And we have one.

 

 

And there lies the problem for some of the tenno on the forums. They refuse to adapt and change there thinking on how to take down an enemy. They're powers are of use against them and some weapons wont work. Switch to a different secondary to take it down, it doesnt have alot of hp. If you feel bold, go up and give it a hug with your weapon. once its down, feel free to show your feelings with your primary to the others around it.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to a more appropriate subforum.

[Rehero]

And there lies the problem for some of the tenno on the forums. They refuse to adapt and change there thinking on how to take down an enemy. They're powers are of use against them and some weapons wont work. Switch to a different secondary to take it down, it doesnt have alot of hp. If you feel bold, go up and give it a hug with your weapon. once its down, feel free to show your feelings with your primary to the others around it.

Could we let this thread die if all that is going to occur in it is repetitious arguments? If you have to continue with it at least try to expand upon or counter argue points already made in the thread so things don't continue to become cyclical. 

 

This is where I would post all of the things that I feel are wrong with nulifier bubbles being based on number of hits however I can't be bothered to retype the same thing for the 6th or so time.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Rehero

[Dimestorekiller]

To all the people saying that the nulifier shield mechanics are broken.It's not a huge stretch to look at it this way. One hit(even a large one) will get dispersed over the entire shield surface. Well many fast hits (even although they are weaker)on the shield in a very short time is most likely enough to overload the shield generator.

[Rehero]

To all the people saying that the nulifier shield mechanics are broken.It's not a huge stretch to look at it this way. One hit(even a large one) will get dispersed over the entire shield surface. Well many fast hits (even although they are weaker)on the shield in a very short time is most likely enough to overload the shield generator.

Talking about what is logical from a real world stand point in a game where I can use a variety of laws of nature defying abilities and weapons doesn't really hold much merit. What does hold merit is the fact that the based on hit mechanic only serves to increase the gap between the efficient and inefficient weapons for no real reason.

 

It has been said multiple times by multiple people that the enemy is welcome in the game but what keeps it from getting tweaked so as not to have unneeded obstacles for weapons that already had a hard time keeping up with weapons that have no trouble with them?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Rehero

[Taranis49]

And there lies the problem for some of the tenno on the forums. They refuse to adapt and change there thinking on how to take down an enemy. They're powers are of use against them and some weapons wont work. Switch to a different secondary to take it down, it doesnt have alot of hp. If you feel bold, go up and give it a hug with your weapon. once its down, feel free to show your feelings with your primary to the others around it.

 

And there lies the problem with some people who make assumptions - we're perfectly able to deal with enemies like this, we just don't find them fun. Just as it was with Scorpions with hitscan grapples that didn't require LoS and unerringly snagged you from rooms away or the armor system of Damage 1.0 that relegated you to using a Flux Rifle, Boltor, throwing knives/stars or Acrid at high-level play since non-AP/AI weapons had their damage reduced by 90+%. Void Nullifiers are no different.

 

To repaste what I've said elsewhere... The Extra Credits video on the subject ("When Difficult is Fun") has been posted around here enough, but important key point it makes: access to tools and thus being able to develop a range of new, novel and interesting solutions to a given challenge is a cornerstone of what makes that challenge fun. It's why the Shield Lancer is considered by quite a few folks to be one of the best designed enemies in the game before the abundance of punch-through trivialized it, because you have the option of flanking him, marksmanship to hit him where he wasn't covered by the shield, jump-kicking to knock him down, using an ability...

 

It's been a problem with some of the recent (post U11) enemy design. Nullifiers remove more fun, engaging gameplay than they add. Frame choice is a central component of the game, they've even been described as alternate gameplay styles... there's a reason the game's called "Warframe" not "Bullethose frame".

[Skepsis]

Gah, this is Nervos all over again, Leave the Nullifier alone. Learn to work around them and prioritize targets.

 

Nullifier is fine, hope they revert the previous nerf, all you have to do is slide into the bubble and shoot him in the face.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Moved to a more appropriate subforum.

Better than delete the post. Thanks.

[Awazx]

Ummmm no. >.> you obviously do not know how to handle them.

 

I'm tired of players who claim to be "Pro". Have you read the arguments of OP?

 

 

(...) the gun they carry one shots my nova prime as soon as they reach around lvl 25!

 

Op is absolutely right in its complaint.

[dragonkingdx]

I'm tired of players who claim to be "Pro". Have you read the arguments of OP?

 

 

 

Op is absolutely right in its complaint.

 

Ive read the arguments and ive seen how they work. However I understand that the system cannot work by damage. If its worked by damage high damage weapons 1 shot the nullifier shield. If it works by bullet count then weapons that shoot slow have no chance. (works more or less by bullet count atm) Not everything can be balanced easily, however they are not taking it easy.

 

They do not need to be nerfed, that is my opinion. They are a challenge but they require you to have some sense of using different gameplay methods for different enemies. Just like you use different elemental combo's for different enemy types. While everyone is calling nerf just wants it to be changed because their favorite bow/sniper no longer stacks up to 1 shot everything. I welcome a challenge that makes it harder to tackle different opponent types BEYOND elemental combos/spam wf skill builds. Who knows maybe they will make an enemy that kills boltor/soma prime too. (id love to see that as well wayyyy too many people carrying those things. even waiting for something that kills skill spamming frames completely)

 

Btw the OP has only posted once. I dont think I have seen them make another argument beyond their first post

Edited December 31, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[Awazx]

Ive read the arguments and ive seen how they work. 

 

No. I'll repeat:

 

(...) the gun they carry one shots my nova prime as soon as they reach around lvl 25!

 

 

 

If you die of a shot, something is wrong with the mechanics.

 

Another issue is the strength of the bubble nullifier, and how you react to gunfire low firing rate (bows, shotguns ...).

[dragonkingdx]

 

No. I'll repeat:

 

(...) the gun they carry one shots my nova prime as soon as they reach around lvl 25!

 

 

 

If you die of a shot, something is wrong with the mechanics.

 

Another issue is the strength of the bubble nullifier, and how you react to gunfire low firing rate (bows, shotguns ...).

 

Ive had them 2 shot me however the complaint stems from not being able to kill it with a dread/opticor. If your moving around while fighting then they are less likely to hit you. With weapons like bows and snipers your usually standing/strafing lightly to line up a head shot. Kill them before they kill you or just plain back off to decrease the chances of being hit. Even if you get 1 shot you also have team mates to rev you/help kill the nullifier. If your playing solo that could be an issue but they are easy enough to kill if you use the right strategy. Its challenging and requires some level of adaptation, im in favor of that. Heck I find the corrupted bombards/napalms more of a problem due to AOE. And those can really kill you fast if not nearly as fast as a nullifier. It adds priority to the game. See a heavy/nullifier? kill it first and foremost

[GeoffFromAccounting]

every time I enter one of these threads I see a common trend here, "adapt or get lost scrub!" Well I'm here to tell you something

 

Adaptation =/= making only a single loadout viable

 

I shouldn't HAVE to use *Rhino Prime, Boltor/Soma Prime, Brakk/Marelok and Dual Ichors* just to kill ONE enemy type. That is not adaptation, that is a gear check, and gear checks are neither fun nor challenging.

 

*slight exaggeration