Ember Rework (Update 15.11)

[Ryjeon]

I'm really disappointed the Accelerant bug/change hasn't been fixed or addressed. For all the people complaining that Ember has no crowd control or utility, taking away her reliable on-demand stun is baffling.

[Azawarau]

I'm really disappointed the Accelerant bug/change hasn't been fixed or addressed. For all the people complaining that Ember has no crowd control or utility, taking away her reliable on-demand stun is baffling.

It might be good

 

If it gives fire blast purpose but only if fire blast is buffed

 

As it is now its a real hindrance to ember

[Ryjeon]

I think using the argument that Ember's heat damage is less useful because of armor doesn't really speak to her damage potential. Ember is weak in teams because most teams don't want to put in the extra effort to make the most use of her significant heat damage buff. Prior to the Accelerant re-cast nerf/bug I was running a build that gave +600% additional heat damage and I was shredding T4 defenses with only myself running corrosive projection.  A team that is prepared to make the most out of Ember should be running Viral/Heat and 4x Corrosive Projection effectively halving enemy health pools and eliminating Ferrite Armor entirely. Without Ferrite Armor all the of the humanoids will be taking full damage bonuses from both Viral and Heat. This is amazing utility in both damage and crowd control because not only does accelerant put out a good stun, but if the whole team is proccing heat damage than that proliferates the crowd control still further with the on-fire panic.

 

So the problem isn't necessarily with Ember's kit. It's that teams don't understand or aren't willing to change their load out to make full use of her potential. In the meantime that accelerant bug is really kicking her teeth in, so that's a problem that need's to fixed asap.

[SageBanshee]

I think using the argument that Ember's heat damage is less useful because of armor doesn't really speak to her damage potential. Ember is weak in teams because most teams don't want to put in the extra effort to make the most use of her significant heat damage buff. Prior to the Accelerant re-cast nerf/bug I was running a build that gave +600% additional heat damage and I was shredding T4 defenses with only myself running corrosive projection.  A team that is prepared to make the most out of Ember should be running Viral/Heat and 4x Corrosive Projection effectively halving enemy health pools and eliminating Ferrite Armor entirely. Without Ferrite Armor all the of the humanoids will be taking full damage bonuses from both Viral and Heat. This is amazing utility in both damage and crowd control because not only does accelerant put out a good stun, but if the whole team is proccing heat damage than that proliferates the crowd control still further with the on-fire panic.

 

So the problem isn't necessarily with Ember's kit. It's that teams don't understand or aren't willing to change their load out to make full use of her potential. In the meantime that accelerant bug is really kicking her teeth in, so that's a problem that need's to fixed asap.

Since when should there ever be a warframe that has to have a specific load out to be able to compete? if you can comprehend my post on page two, you would see the outright damage difference between the best and worst warframe in the game. Yes, Ember can survive in a t4 game. But it is with extreme caution and with a very specific load out. If you want a challenge, then go for it! But regardless, other Warframes easily do what Ember struggles to achieve. The poor girl will suffer even worse now that being dead for a minute causes you to loose all void rewards. Even if she can kill one target per tick of WoF, that means four targets die per second. That means it will take five seconds to kill twenty targets. Five seconds of a declining number starting at twenty is more than enough to put Ember flat on her &#!. She needs to be able to kill way faster in order to be compared to a damage warframe. And minor changes like turning WoF toggleable, or increasing her speed will not fix the speed with which she kills.

[Azawarau]

Since when should there ever be a warframe that has to have a specific load out to be able to compete? if you can comprehend my post on page two, you would see the outright damage difference between the best and worst warframe in the game. Yes, Ember can survive in a t4 game. But it is with extreme caution and with a very specific load out. If you want a challenge, then go for it! But regardless, other Warframes easily do what Ember struggles to achieve. The poor girl will suffer even worse now that being dead for a minute causes you to loose all void rewards. Even if she can kill one target per tick of WoF, that means four targets die per second. That means it will take five seconds to kill twenty targets. Five seconds of a declining number starting at twenty is more than enough to put Ember flat on her !. She needs to be able to kill way faster in order to be compared to a damage warframe. And minor changes like turning WoF toggleable, or increasing her speed will not fix the speed with which she kills.

Since ember

 

Theres nothing inherently wrong with bugging fire damage specifiacally

 

People should be taking advantage of it instead of treating it like its holding them back

 

The load out isnt that specific

 

Just use fire instead of what youd usually do

 

It works with most weapons and the reward is worth it

 

The thing people forget about embers killing is that she has so much power per hit

 

When other powers can only stun shell still be killing with her powers and the insane damage boost on her guns

[Ryjeon]

Since when should there ever be a warframe that has to have a specific load out to be able to compete? if you can comprehend my post on page two, you would see the outright damage difference between the best and worst warframe in the game. Yes, Ember can survive in a t4 game. But it is with extreme caution and with a very specific load out. If you want a challenge, then go for it! But regardless, other Warframes easily do what Ember struggles to achieve. The poor girl will suffer even worse now that being dead for a minute causes you to loose all void rewards. Even if she can kill one target per tick of WoF, that means four targets die per second. That means it will take five seconds to kill twenty targets. Five seconds of a declining number starting at twenty is more than enough to put Ember flat on her !. She needs to be able to kill way faster in order to be compared to a damage warframe. And minor changes like turning WoF toggleable, or increasing her speed will not fix the speed with which she kills.

 

Ash is a fantastic warframe if you want to chew content in the least interesting way possible. Basing the merits of a frame simply on what sort of results you can get for the least amount of effort is not necessarily the greatest rubric for deciding the best approach to the game's content. Ember may take some more finesse than target enemy and press four and she might require some more forethought on the player's and on the team's part. But she does achieve those capable results and she is fun and effective to play for those who find her strengths and tools appealing.  In my opinion gameplay is most interesting when there are a variety of approaches and options. But if achieving the most out of Limbo+Trinity+Ash+Nova or whatever composition you deem "does it better" is what is most appealing to you, then I really can't criticize. Your time and your gameplay are your own.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Ryjeon

[[DE]Megan]

b) Accelerant:

 

• Fix the fact that you can't re-stun enemies that are still under the accelerant effect. The whole reason of this ability is to provide a small CC and damage boost, this needs to be fixed because it can get her killed pretty quick not being able to keep certain enemies stunned.

Poking my head in to report that this has been fixed in Update 15.10.0:

• Fixed an issue where enemies already affected by Ember's Accelerant Heat debuff would not become stunned when the ability is recast.  Enemies will now be stunned and Heat debuff duration will be refreshed.

[Coldmood_Viney]

Ember was my fav frame till she got sustain (from 2nd) to use all her DOT abilities, after nerf 2nd skill its RIP for any mission above 15 lvl... so sad.

[Nero9937]

bringing back overheat would be the best IMO, just with a different way of mitigating damage.

[cyrus106]

I feel the need to point this out again

 

The difference between 15 and 65 armor is nearly nothing

 

Sprint speed wont help you avoid being hit at close range and would only serve for speed running

 

Ember has a radial stun that Nova,Mirage, and nyx lack

 

Nova is also overpowered with her CC in general

 

Embers damage boost is lower than banshees and CC lower but the function of the power is what makes it on par

 

She gets her DoT while being mobile along with a debuff/stun wrapped into one power

 

Banshee also has to choose between damage and utility more than ember, she cant have max damage boost and stun at the same time. The conflict

 

Adding other elementals to embers accelerant debuff just opens up more ult nuke spamming for frames like nova and oberon rather than actually adding to ember

 

The only big change ember neds is the toggleable WoF

 

Why?

 

First off the end of major mod conflicts

 

With a single duration mod for Accelerants debuff time you could have a higher attack range for both accelerant and WoF without resorting to overextended and killing the STR on both

 

WoF will act entirely as a DoT while accelrant actually becomes her nuke

 

When enemies are light you can run and gun with just WoF and when things get heavy you can rely on accelerant to turn your WoF into a nuke rather than a DoT with added stun

 

The problem isnt speed or armor or anything like it

 

Its just a mod and utility conflict that toggling fixes

Highly disagree. It is a proven fact that move

I feel the need to point this out again

 

The difference between 15 and 65 armor is nearly nothing

 

Sprint speed wont help you avoid being hit at close range and would only serve for speed running

 

Ember has a radial stun that Nova,Mirage, and nyx lack

 

Nova is also overpowered with her CC in general

 

Embers damage boost is lower than banshees and CC lower but the function of the power is what makes it on par

 

She gets her DoT while being mobile along with a debuff/stun wrapped into one power

 

Banshee also has to choose between damage and utility more than ember, she cant have max damage boost and stun at the same time. The conflict

 

Adding other elementals to embers accelerant debuff just opens up more ult nuke spamming for frames like nova and oberon rather than actually adding to ember

 

The only big change ember neds is the toggleable WoF

 

Why?

 

First off the end of major mod conflicts

 

With a single duration mod for Accelerants debuff time you could have a higher attack range for both accelerant and WoF without resorting to overextended and killing the STR on both

 

WoF will act entirely as a DoT while accelrant actually becomes her nuke

 

When enemies are light you can run and gun with just WoF and when things get heavy you can rely on accelerant to turn your WoF into a nuke rather than a DoT with added stun

 

The problem isnt speed or armor or anything like it

 

Its just a mod and utility conflict that toggling fixes

highly disagree. Its already proven that a fast moving frame causes a passive debuff to enemy accuracy. Ember is slow and does not get this benefit, nor does she get any armor. Look at all other frames. They tend to have either good tankiness to a degree or good movespeed, as both increase your surviviability

[Ryjeon]

 

Poking my head in to report that this has been fixed in Update 15.10.0:

• Fixed an issue where enemies already affected by Ember's Accelerant Heat debuff would not become stunned when the ability is recast.  Enemies will now be stunned and Heat debuff duration will be refreshed.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up! Today is just a good day for Ember lovers.

[Azawarau]

Highly disagree. It is a proven fact that move highly disagree. Its already proven that a fast moving frame causes a passive debuff to enemy accuracy. Ember is slow and does not get this benefit, nor does she get any armor. Look at all other frames. They tend to have either good tankiness to a degree or good movespeed, as both increase your surviviability

Movement speed is irrelevant

 

You can copter or air melee and ember is a close range frame who should have enough CC to hold down enemies around her

 

Accelerant, now that its fixed, can do that just fine

 

Sustaining Accelerant can be fixed with Toggleable WoF

 

Speed would just be a band aid that doesnt actually fix ember

[Hybridon]

I think we can settle now. Most of my proposed changes here are going through, even if not exactly inside some of the abilities, but now Ember seems she will become the quick caster shes supposed to be, even under Azawarus terrible protests. :)

 

GG DE. Makes me wanna do more of these topics ^^

[Azawarau]

I think we can settle now. Most of my proposed changes here are going through, even if not exactly inside some of the abilities, but now Ember seems she will become the quick caster shes supposed to be, even under Azawarus terrible protests. :)

 

GG DE. Makes me wanna do more of these topics ^^

If you want a ember covered in band aids then

[Hybridon]

If you want a ember covered in band aids then

 

They did what you want, and that you repeatedly said was enough. Along with that buffed fireblast to a real CC, gave her more survivability and capacity to sustain close quarter encounters.

 

You just are too proud to admit it, and now call it a band-aid.

 

Get over it kiddo.

[Azawarau]

They did what you want, and that you repeatedly said was enough. Along with that buffed fireblast to a real CC, gave her more survivability and capacity to sustain close quarter encounters.

 

You just are too proud to admit it, and now call it a band-aid.

 

Get over it kiddo.

I actually havnt seen or heard of any changes

 

And im not sure if youve heard but ive been calling stat buffs on ember a band aid ever since the big buff ember thread where i switched from the idea of buffing her stats to adding a toggle

 

Im not into pride and you really dont know me well enough to say something like that. I dislike my family and their pride and they dont like that im not overly proud like they are. Now you know

 

But since were on pride

 

Calling me out by name when both buffs were added to to provoke a reaction

 

Petty? Check

 

Uncalled for? Check

 

Ironic? Check

 

You just won the warframe forum lottery

[Hybridon]

I actually havnt seen or heard of any changes

 

And im not sure if youve heard but ive been calling stat buffs on ember a band aid ever since the big buff ember thread where i switched from the idea of buffing her stats to adding a toggle

 

Im not into pride and you really dont know me well enough to say something like that. I dislike my family and their pride and they dont like that im not overly proud like they are. Now you know

 

But since were on pride

 

Calling me out by name when both buffs were added to to provoke a reaction

 

Petty? Check

 

Uncalled for? Check

 

Ironic? Check

 

You just won the warframe forum lottery

 

Here mate, take a look and stop whining.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386223-ember-surviving-canadian-winters/

 

As for your family, I could care less about your personal history. To the moment many have told you why speed is important, yet you stick to your opinion as if giving her speed will be a band-aid fix lol

 

At least you give me high laughs, kiddo :)

[Azawarau]

Here mate, take a look and stop whining.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386223-ember-surviving-canadian-winters/

 

As for your family, I could care less about your personal history. To the moment many have told you why speed is important, yet you stick to your opinion as if giving her speed will be a band-aid fix lol

 

At least you give me high laughs, kiddo :)

And youre still trying to troll

 

Speed is irrelevant

 

If she can stun she doesnt need it

 

If shes near enemies shes got them stunned or killed

 

If shes running away coptering and air melee are better options

 

Thats simply all there is to it

[Hybridon]

bla bla bla, I dont want to learn other good things about speed, bla bla bla

 

Fixed it fo you.

[Azawarau]

Fixed it fo you.

If you were going for irony you hit the nail on the head

 

Im not sure why you came here with that "rub it in your face" attitude when both changes were made

 

Ive also like the idea of an eximus style blast for ember

 

At this point youre just here to show pettiness

[Hybridon]

If you were going for irony you hit the nail on the head

 

Im not sure why you came here with that "rub it in your face" attitude when both changes were made

 

Ive also like the idea of an eximus style blast for ember

 

At this point youre just here to show pettiness

 

...

[traybong111]

I like most of these ideas. I don't think she needs such a huge buff to speed during WoF, just a normal run speed of 1.05 or 1.1 would be fine, and maybe a minor, short boost right after she casts Accelerant just because of the name.

 

I've been a long-time supporter of giving WoF's pillars some sort of AoE blast or panic proc, but combined with toggle I think that'd be too useful. With her energy pool and Fleeting it'd provide near-constant knockdown (albeit targets are capped at 4 that you cannot control). Sure it won't be as good as, say, range-modded Stomp for CC but in close hallways it'd be just crawling enemies everywhere. Either it goes toggle, or gains some buff to base duration and AoE blast, but not both. (HEY HOW ABOUT AN AUGMENT? HINT HINT)

 

Also, if Fireblast is changed to Eximus-style knockdown maybe its new augment could swap knockdown for panic+slow AoE?

[Hybridon]

Added in a edit after these changes. Hope DE seeks to truly fix Ember.