Glaive/glaive P And Its Lack Of Unique Mechanic.

[SilverZs]

Soooo I <3 my Glaive Prime (as all of you mere mortals should)... but one thing thats always kind of bothered me... was its lack of 'unique' mechanic compared to the kestrel. The Kestrel has built-in 'getoutofmyhouse' forcefield damage, aka ragdollolol. Now that we have the Halikar as well [which can disarm its target(s)] we see the disparagement between the three.

 

Personally, I think we could reintroduce an old mechanic, apply it to the Glaive/prime and continue the 'unique' mechanic of thrown weapons.

 

Original Concept/idea:

That age old mechanic should be its ability to bounce to other targets (not just bounce as it does now, but bounce to its nearest enemy target). Why can we do this? Space magic and the super intense ability to measure distances and then accurately place proper spin to get to achieve those wicked bounces.

This would also make the Rebound mod incredibly viable (in retrospect to the part that Quick Return is better ATM because of 'Glaive Bombs).

 

Re-worked concept:

(Allows for the old 'Glaive Bombing' style)

Mechanic to allow use of Rebound mod to increase number of bounces. After the first bounce the Glaive/prime would use prediction logic to determine pathing to strike (pass through/punch through with use of Power Throw) the most amount of units before its next bounce. This would continue until it exhausts its bounce counter, then returning as per normal.

(This permits Glaive 'Bombing' due to the fact that the first bounce is also the final bounce used when combined with a maxed Quick return, meaning there is no additional bounce to cooperate with for prediction logic)

 

Things to keep in mind, Glaive/prime would always use 'forward momentum logic' meaning it would fly/path in motion based off its original direction (no backwards bouncing glaives!)

This still allows for 'skill' shots, being as if you toss a terrible first bounce, and your rebound(wall bounce) allows no forward momentum 'target' (aka throwing it into a corner so that it double bounces back to you). 

 

Thoughts? Impressions? Help me start a pitchfork and torch riot on DE?

Edited January 7, 2015 by SilverZs

[InvaderMEEN]

I support this. +1

[Easymac]

Aggreed

[MaestroSartori]

Great idea, yet another +1

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I do love me some Glaive bombs.

I once got really lucky and threw my Kestrel and managed to kill THREE enemies (hit one, ricocheted off him to a different guy, repeat to a third guy), but hell if that wasn't rare.

97% of the time when I throw my Glaive or Halikar or Kestrel, if it doesn't hit someone on the way out or the way back if it doesn't bounce, it's only highly effective at bouncing uselessly around the stage until it decides it's hit its curfew and comes back home.

I think it'd be killer if when it hits something or someone it would bounce off in at least the general direction of another enemy, like Oberon's Smite does.

[Vanadium]

Well, the old OLD mechanic for the Glaive in Darksector was that you could guide it like a smart...shuriken-boomerang or whatever. I think that'd be pretty neat. Just give it a max range.

[SilverZs]

I do love me some Glaive bombs.

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I love the Glaive bomb-technique, I just feel that the Glaive/prime not having a unique effect is so lackluster when its legacy weapon (Darksector as mentioned).

 

Well, the old OLD mechanic for the Glaive in Darksector was that you could guide it like a smart...shuriken-boomerang or whatever. I think that'd be pretty neat. Just give it a max range.

I feel that this would be too 'slow' in regards to what you could do with it for Warframe. Alternatively, it would cause too much 'focus' on the projectile as well for Warframe, considering how face paced the game can get. I feel that this mechanic would better suit a guided missile heavy weapon.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I feel that this would be too 'slow' in regards to what you could do with it for Warframe. Alternatively, it would cause too much 'focus' on the projectile as well for Warframe, considering how face paced the game can get. I feel that this mechanic would better suit a guided missile heavy weapon.

That's not entirely bad though, just look at Nova's AMD.

It's even slower, and you have to aim it with your reticule, but it actually hits things!

Really hard too, unless it's bugging out again and refuses to acknowledge you put any bullets into it.

[Rakshal]

No reason not to 1+ this.

[(PSN)DanceOnUrGav3]

I have long wanted this. However am alternative would be to have it pick up loot along its flight path and bring it back to you 

[Renegade343]

Please, why not just an Augment for that, just for the Glaive?

 

I mean, I actually use the bounces to sometimes hit heavier enemies behind a small wall of fodder enemies, and that takes a bit of skill (and sometimes luck with the surfaces). I am not really wanting to have that to be removed, and replaced with bouncing, then turning around to hit unimportant Grineer Lancer #2 from the small wall of fodder enemies. 

[SilverZs]

Please, why not just an Augment for that, just for the Glaive?

 

I mean, I actually use the bounces to sometimes hit heavier enemies behind a small wall of fodder enemies, and that takes a bit of skill (and sometimes luck with the surfaces). I am not really wanting to have that to be removed, and replaced with bouncing, then turning around to hit unimportant Grineer Lancer #2 from the small wall of fodder enemies. 

I disagree to the point.. that if this was to be an augment ( the bad way to make the change ), then the Kestrel should have its Ragdoll ability turned into an augment as well as disarm for the Halikar. The thrown melee weapons do pitiful damage in comparison to regular melee weapon damage, because they are intended to be 'unique'. All I'm (and almost everyone else in this thread) is asking for is some of that 'uniquepaste' be slapped on the Glaive/prime.

 

 

 

~grammar edit~

Edited January 7, 2015 by SilverZs

[Dualstar]

But heres the problem, how would it justify itself when it has to be compared to the Grenade biuld which can literally sweep a line of lower level mobs and (of course) has that wonderful explosion that simply makes every method of melee obselete by comparion?

 

And without using Bounce (and why would you?) an aimbot ricochet couldnt kill more than 4 with the normal Glaive (3 with Prime) and it probably wouldnt work properly with Power Throw.

[SilverZs]

But heres the problem, how would it justify itself when it has to be compared to the Grenade biuld which can literally sweep a line of lower level mobs and (of course) has that wonderful explosion that simply makes every method of melee obselete by comparion?

 

And without using Bounce (and why would you?) an aimbot ricochet couldnt kill more than 4 with the normal Glaive (3 with Prime) and it probably wouldnt work properly with Power Throw.

Easy, advanced mechanic to control it. Give Power Throw the ability (for the Glaive) to choose 'better' or 'closer' targets. 

 

For instance, a non-Power Throw Glaive could use LoS logistics to pick its next target, a Power Throw Glaive could pierce the target choosing its most closest target ignoring LoS logistics. Tada

Edited January 7, 2015 by SilverZs

[Renegade343]

I disagree to the point.. that if this was to be an augment ( the bad way to make the change ), then the Kestrel should have its Ragdoll ability turned into an augment as well as disarm for the Halikar. The thrown melee weapons do pitiful damage in comparison to regular melee weapon damage, because they are intended to be 'unique'. All I'm (and almost everyone else in this thread) is asking for is some of that 'uniquepaste' be slapped on the Glaive/prime.

Thing is, there are players that actually use the Glaive/Kestrel for trick shots (I practice it for fun). So your idea just takes that option away, and make another Halikar clone. 

 

And that is why I do not really like the Halikar (after all, trying to aim for a Corpus Tech, only to end up swerving away to hit a Crewmen is frustrating at best, dumb at worst). 

 

Not to mention that its main damage comes from throwing the thing, and that has quite a lot of raw damage to it. 

[RabidScholar]

I believe the glaive is fine. The mechanic on it I like is throwing it and it slicing everything in half. paired with gleaming talon the first combo is great in defense as it can clear an area the second can be utilized to help take down bigger targets. Leave the glaive alone -.-  please.

[RabidScholar]

BTW  it just takes practice to hit the target you want, I can hit enemies around corners very easily. (I won't say it is easy for everyone)

[Dualstar]

Easy, advanced mechanic to control it. Give puncture the ability (for the Glaive) to choose 'better' or 'closer' targets. 

 

For instance, a non-Power Throw Glaive could use LoS logistics to pick its next target, a Power Throw Glaive could pierce the target choosing its most closest target ignoring LoS logistics. Tada

Yeah, but which one of those is going to cause it to actually fly at something it will definitely kill?

 

When im using the Grenade Prime, its mostly to nuke a tight cluster of lesser mobs that would have been inefficient to handle with guns (due to ammo) or a warfame ability (due to energy, assuming youre even playing a frame capable of that) or as an "Oh crap" reaction when im reloading.

 

And can it be done more effeciently than using the Quick Return/Whirlwind/Power Throw combo to explode them individually? Its rarely more than 3 seconds from me initiating the throw to the weapon returning, which allows me to pick a new target cluster to eliminate effectively immeadiately if there is one.

 

But what youre suggesting is limited by number of bounces the weapon gets, the longer flight time as it seeks targets, and potential misses due to the aimbot picking a erraticly moving target it couldnt compensate for.

 

TBH id settle for Power Throw being able to penetrate MOA's, ospreys and crewmen helmets.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Dualstar

[SilverZs]

Yeah, but which one of those is going to cause it to actually fly at something it will definitely kill?

 

When im using the Grenade Prime, its mostly to nuke a tight cluster of lesser mobs that would have been inefficient to handle with guns (due to ammo) or a warfame ability (due to energy, assuming youre even playing a frame capable of that) or as an "Oh crap" reaction when im reloading.

 

And can it be done more effeciently than using the Quick Return/Whirlwind/Power Throw combo to explode them individually? Its rarely more than 3 seconds from me initiating the throw to the weapon returning, which allows me to pick a new target cluster to eliminate effectively immeadiately if there is one.

 

But what youre suggesting is limited by number of bounces the weapon gets, the longer flight time as it seeks targets, and potential misses due to the aimbot picking a erraticly moving target it couldnt compensate for.

 

TBH id settle for Power Throw being able to penetrate MOA's, ospreys and crewmen helmets.

On the flipside of this, you're kind of being stunted on the idea instead of trying to grow/expand on it. This is a video game, lets use our brains. The LoS Logistic could make it 'choose' the best path to hit the most enemies before its next bounce. Hell we could even do something to force it to target a line-based system, meaning it would fly through as many enemies as possible before it hits its next hard surface. Power throw would allow it to fly through enemies, therefor allowing it the best pathing possible.

[Renegade343]

On the flipside of this, you're kind of being stunted on the idea instead of trying to grow/expand on it. This is a video game, lets use our brains. The LoS Logistic could make it 'choose' the best path to hit the most enemies before its next bounce. Hell we could even do something to force it to target a line-based system, meaning it would fly through as many enemies as possible before it hits its next hard surface. Power throw would allow it to fly through enemies, therefor allowing it the best pathing possible.

Still no. 

 

If there has to be an unique mechanic, Glaive should have innate Punchthrough of 0.4m (although logically, the Halikar should have that, while the Glaive should have the disarm, since the Halikar looks like a throwing axe, and throwing axes tend to pierce armour). 

[SilverZs]

Still no. 

 

If there has to be an unique mechanic, Glaive should have innate Punchthrough of 0.4m (although logically, the Halikar should have that, while the Glaive should have the disarm, since the Halikar looks like a throwing axe, and throwing axes tend to pierce armour). 

 

I get the feel that you're the type of person, that if its not your idea... its a bad one.

 

And its not that it 'has' to have a unique mechanic, its that it SHOULD. It's not like the suggestion is that it gets a % to instagib its target (because decapitation). If we went with the LoS-based line targetting mechanic, it would literally have ZERO impact on Glaive "bombing" as the 'targeting' wouldn't take effect till the first bounce (assuming it is not the final/ending bounce).

 

As I've thought of it, the LoS-based line targeting would be, more then likely, the easiest implementation (all it has to do is choose the 'line' with the most enemies it could hit. This would also be within reason, if you throw it forward, its not going to all of a sudden defy physics and fly in the direction it just came from. Doing it this way, would give us (the ones commenting in the thread anyways) the majority, a more 'unique' feel and usage to the Glaive/prime and still retain the 'bombing' ability of Quick Return builds. I hope you can see the whole picture now, rather then just immediately rejecting the idea.

 

~grammar fixes~

Edited January 7, 2015 by SilverZs

[Renegade343]

I get the feel that you're the type of person, that if its not your idea... its a bad one.

 

And its not that it 'has' to have a unique mechanic, its that it SHOULD. It's not like the suggestion is that it gets a % to instagib its target (because decapitation). If we went with the LoS-based line targetting mechanic, it would literally have ZERO impact on Glaive "bombing" as the 'targeting' wouldn't take effect till the first bounce (assuming it is not the final/ending bounce).

 

As I've thought of it, the LoS-based line targeting would be, more then likely, the easiest implementation (all it has to do is choose the 'line' with the most enemies it could hit. This would also be within reason, if you throw it forward, its not going to all of a sudden defy physics and fly in the direction it just came from. Doing it this way, would give us (the ones commenting in the thread anyways) the majority, a more 'unique' feel and usage to the Glaive/prime and still retain the 'bombing' ability of Quick Return builds. I hope you can see the whole picture now, rather then just immediately rejecting the idea.

 

~grammar fixes~

Thing is, try using the Halikar first. Then, come back, and see if that idea would make a weapon actually fun to use (short answer: No, and frustrating as well). 

 

Really, homing to the nearest enemy after bouncing? I think there goes most strategy out of the window. 

[Dualstar]

On the flipside of this, you're kind of being stunted on the idea instead of trying to grow/expand on it. This is a video game, lets use our brains. The LoS Logistic could make it 'choose' the best path to hit the most enemies before its next bounce. Hell we could even do something to force it to target a line-based system, meaning it would fly through as many enemies as possible before it hits its next hard surface. Power throw would allow it to fly through enemies, therefor allowing it the best pathing possible.

Now that sound an awful lot like high level calculations that have to take into account multiple bounces, weapon travel time, and make real time updates for new enemy positions. Something that would take the Glaive Prime from being the legit best melee weapon to being a cheap S#&amp;&#036; weapon for lazy scrubs.

 

Frankly above all else id hate something like that to be implemented since that would mean that if ever i made a ton of kills in one throw like that id have to be stuck knowing that theres no way in hell i could have done it normally if it wasnt for this cheap S#&amp;&#036; mechanic this weapon had.

 

So whats so wrong with toss, explode and return? Simple, elegant, only cost me the half a second it took to throw and its back in my hand ready to go again at a moments notice.

[SilverZs]

Now that sound an awful lot like high level calculations that have to take into account multiple bounces, weapon travel time, and make real time updates for new enemy positions. Something that would take the Glaive Prime from being the legit best melee weapon to being a cheap S#&$ weapon for lazy scrubs.

 

Frankly above all else id hate something like that to be implemented since that would mean that if ever i made a ton of kills in one throw like that id have to be stuck knowing that theres no way in hell i could have done it normally if it wasnt for this cheap S#&$ mechanic this weapon had.

 

So whats so wrong with toss, explode and return? Simple, elegant, only cost me the half a second it took to throw and its back in my hand ready to go again at a moments notice.

So again... you're trying to say that the option to have both, and simply choose the 'build' you want to play with is.... bad. Right.

[DrBorris]

So... a 100% bleed proc would be OP right?