Azawarau Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 so basically your argument is that every damaging 4 power is bad because you can kill enemies with it? so what about mag? would her shield polarize be press 2 to win and that is a problem too? Well I thought your issue was that people only spam the 4 key and dont utilize other skills or their weapons which is 1. simply not true most of the time 2. Only a thing in low level content 3. Not very efficient If thats what you got from it then you werent paying attention or are intentionally misunderstanding to try to make a point Well let that excali in to 2 hour T4 survival and you see what happens to his 4 :D + the excal needs a lot of energy pads or a trin if he doesnt want to move from his spot and still spam 4 or he dies since he doesnt want to move -> like I said very inefficient to need to take up a party spot or spend alot of resources on energy pads Well defense is defense you know :D you need to defend something thats normally immobile, which means you wont run around much r? Im sorry but the real fun of the game happens when you play an endless type mission (mostly survival since that is the best game mode lets be honest) a little longer than 1 hour :D 2 hours in is irrelevant and you know it Most everything wont work at that point Remember trinity blessing was changed because of this If youre going to try to make a point at least make it relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 so basically your argument is that every damaging 4 power is bad because you can kill enemies with it? so what about mag? would her shield polarize be press 2 to win and that is a problem too? Well I thought your issue was that people only spam the 4 key and dont utilize other skills or their weapons which is 1. simply not true most of the time 2. Only a thing in low level content 3. Not very efficient you get it. I like you. Well let that excali in to 2 hour T4 survival and you see what happens to his 4 :D + the excal needs a lot of energy pads or a trin if he doesnt want to move from his spot and still spam 4 or he dies since he doesnt want to move -> like I said very inefficient to need to take up a party spot or spend alot of resources on energy pads Well defense is defense you know :D you need to defend something thats normally immobile, which means you wont run around much r? Im sorry but the real fun of the game happens when you play an endless type mission (mostly survival since that is the best game mode lets be honest) a little longer than 1 hour :D Yep, we make our own fun, people shouldn't tell us how to make our own fun. Because, that isn't fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 you get it. I like you. Yep, we make our own fun, people shouldn't tell us how to make our own fun. Because, that isn't fun. Fun is subjective You could say "I wont have fun unless i can clear the entire map by hitting 4 one time" and defend it to no end It doesnt make you right Unless you can show why theres no problem with that you have no argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Fun is subjective You could say "I wont have fun unless i can clear the entire map by hitting 4 one time" and defend it to no end It doesnt make you right Unless you can show why theres no problem with that you have no argument My argument is that we should all be able to have fun, to enjoy, to choose to enjoy a certain way, that's literally my argument. When someone else says "no you can't have fun that way, you need to have fun this way" then that's when I don't like it. Of course fun is subjective, from person to person it's different. Freedom to play the game how I want to play allows me to enjoy the game, I never said it was completely right how I play, because even right and wrong are subjective. But what I feel is wrong is when people tell other people how they should be playing and enjoying the game. So I will stand against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 My argument is that we should all be able to have fun, to enjoy, to choose to enjoy a certain way, that's literally my argument. When someone else says "no you can't have fun that way, you need to have fun this way" then that's when I don't like it. Of course fun is subjective, from person to person it's different. Freedom to play the game how I want to play allows me to enjoy the game, I never said it was completely right how I play, because even right and wrong are subjective. But what I feel is wrong is when people tell other people how they should be playing and enjoying the game. So I will stand against that. Is it okay for it to be hurting the games state of balance for the sake of fun? Is that certain way the only way you can have fun? Did you disprove y point at all with this paragraph? You mightve actually strengthened it Your argument here is extremely subjective and you havnt been factual about anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Is it okay for it to be hurting the games state of balance for the sake of fun? Is that certain way the only way you can have fun? Did you disprove y point at all with this paragraph? You mightve actually strengthened it Your argument here is extremely subjective and you havnt been factual about anything If your idea of balance is hurting how people play simply because you have some twisted view of how they should play the game, it isn't balance. You play the game how you want to play it, and enjoy, that's all there is to it. You don't have the right to go up to someone and say "you need to play it a different way so you have fun, because I say it's balanced." Nope, you don't have the right to say that. Neither does it make you right. Whatever that certain way is for someone to have fun, if they have other avenues they find enjoyable, then that's up to them to decide what they want to have fun with and how to enjoy it. Your point, haha, no, it doesn't, because I'm advocating for freedom of choice for how you want to play, while for some dissenting reason you continue to rabble saying "no, you cannot play how you want to play". It just so happens that my vie for freedom of choice also coincides how people can have fun by having the freedom of choice. Whoa there Lucy, points in my argument are subjective, as is how people have fun, since you wanted to bring up that topic. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just because you answer the questions with objectivity doesn't mean everything you said was fact. Just because I chose to have confluences of passion and subjectivity on my posts doesn't mean it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If your idea of balance is hurting how people play simply because you have some twisted view of how they should play the game, it isn't balance. You play the game how you want to play it, and enjoy, that's all there is to it. You don't have the right to go up to someone and say "you need to play it a different way so you have fun, because I say it's balanced." Nope, you don't have the right to say that. Neither does it make you right. Whatever that certain way is for someone to have fun, if they have other avenues they find enjoyable, then that's up to them to decide what they want to have fun with and how to enjoy it. Your point, haha, no, it doesn't, because I'm advocating for freedom of choice for how you want to play, while for some dissenting reason you continue to rabble saying "no, you cannot play how you want to play". It just so happens that my vie for freedom of choice also coincides how people can have fun by having the freedom of choice. Whoa there Lucy, points in my argument are subjective, as is how people have fun, since you wanted to bring up that topic. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just because you answer the questions with objectivity doesn't mean everything you said was fact. Just because I chose to have confluences of passion and subjectivity on my posts doesn't mean it's wrong. How are they being hurt exactly? Youre placing an extremely negative thing directly on me as if i have bad intentions and thats not fair at all. If youre just going to appal to emotion by painting me as the bad guy then youre ot exactly making your point either. You cant jsut say i have a twisted view of balance, you have to show why its twisted. What specifically is wrong with it, and leave out the subjective parts. Show how the game would be more balanced the way you think it should be. I could easily say your twisted view is hurting the games balance and leave it at that and it wouldnt mean a thing, and thats my problem with every argument given so far Ive given more than enough reason and have yet to see so much as one given back that wasnt based on and riddled with subjectivity or bias. Most everything said from the opposite end could go two ways easily. Freedom of choice isnt an argument. Why? I dont have the freedom to fly with every frame I should be able to use valkyrs defense with Iron skin and Miasma because choose to Sounds ridiculous doesnt it? Theres nothing wrong with freedom of choice. but what youre asking for isnt freedom of choice. Its a biased subjective defense for keeping a broken mechanic that even a Dev called an exploit. Youre also entirely ignoring that there are hundreds of choices you could make but you defend only this one. Thats fishy Passion and objectivity in your posts dont make you right either which by default means you have no point. If you can support it with more than subjectivity its fine If not then its likely you cant because you know youre wrong How about you stop shuffling around my reque4sts ad actually pose a decent argument Just one at least+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 How are they being hurt exactly? Youre placing an extremely negative thing directly on me as if i have bad intentions and thats not fair at all. If youre just going to appal to emotion by painting me as the bad guy then youre ot exactly making your point either. You cant jsut say i have a twisted view of balance, you have to show why its twisted. What specifically is wrong with it, and leave out the subjective parts. Show how the game would be more balanced the way you think it should be. I could easily say your twisted view is hurting the games balance and leave it at that and it wouldnt mean a thing, and thats my problem with every argument given so far Ive given more than enough reason and have yet to see so much as one given back that wasnt based on and riddled with subjectivity or bias. Most everything said from the opposite end could go two ways easily. Freedom of choice isnt an argument. Why? I dont have the freedom to fly with every frame I should be able to use valkyrs defense with Iron skin and Miasma because choose to Sounds ridiculous doesnt it? Theres nothing wrong with freedom of choice. but what youre asking for isnt freedom of choice. Its a biased subjective defense for keeping a broken mechanic that even a Dev called an exploit. Youre also entirely ignoring that there are hundreds of choices you could make but you defend only this one. Thats fishy Passion and objectivity in your posts dont make you right either which by default means you have no point. If you can support it with more than subjectivity its fine If not then its likely you cant because you know youre wrong How about you stop shuffling around my reque4sts ad actually pose a decent argument Just one at least+ You're saying to someone "no, there should be a new way that powers are using energy, because I think it's fair." When someone who doesn't have a problem with how we have energy or availability of our powers, like me, is telling you "I like how I can use my powers if I have enough energy for them, they may not be available all the time, but I like how it is now. This new system limits me further from using my powers whenever I so build to go as my caster build. I.e. tons of energy and high efficiency." That's why it's a bad idea. You're telling someone else how you think their ability to use their tools should be, when they already know how to use their tools and can specialize their tools to fit their needs. A full rework in the energy system like this limits people from that specialization and customization. This isn't just subjective, it's a fact. Freedom of choice is my stance in this discussion, since apparently this isn't an argument. Each frame has its limitations, as per the world created by DE and the very nature of the Frame. You do not have the freedom to fly with any frame, but you do have the freedom to choose Zephyr so you can fly. You can't use either of those 3 powers together because you aren't all 3 frames at once. Am I saying that you should? No, because that isn't freedom to choose, that's breaking the rules of the game. What I AM saying is that you can choose to have those abilities and the availability through the frame you pick and how you build that frame. That's already a limitation on the game. We have the freedom to choose how we want to play, with what we want to play, with the tools given to us. What you just used as an example is extreme, outright breaks the rules of the game, and entirely not what I said. I said you had the freedom to choose how you play the game and enjoy, and another player shouldn't have the power to make you play the game a different way. Ah, so they say it's an exploit, and then release Primed Flow, Primed Continuity, and also Primed Streamline is on the way (I think, haven't checked the data mine in a few days). Yep, if they didn't want players to have their powers being available to them at all times, then they OF COURSE would release mods THAT INCREASE THE AVAILABILITY AND MECHANICS of our powers. Did I say press 1 key to eliminate threats in an area was wrong? No, I didn't. Did I say it was right? No, I didn't. I said that we can choose how we want to play, and that's a good thing. What you fail to realize is that this kind of change doesn't solely affect those who you deem wrong for using the "p42w" tactic, it affects the entire community. We suffer as a WHOLE for what some would call another group of few "an exploit". I know damn well I'm right. Freedom to play as you wish, freedom of choice, freedom to be a player who has fun with what you do, is what I know is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 This is where i let out a big sigh and just go with it Im not saying no just because, dont lump me together with you. Ive given examples of where and why its bad for the game extensively at this point and youre still coming with subjective arguments "A full rework in the energy system like this limits people from that specialization and customization. This isn't just subjective, it's a fact." Thats literally the point. Youve said nothing here but state that id like to see that thig changed which is a fact. Nothing to really defend why except "I like how I can use my powers if I have enough energy for them, they may not be available all the time, but I like how it is now. This new system limits me further from using my powers whenever I so build to go as my caster build. I.e. tons of energy and high efficiency." And then placing me on the spot of the bad guy. Im not this evil villain who jsut wants to ruin your fun or gameplay. To be honest, youre kind of a $&*^ for constantly painting it that way. "You're telling someone else how you think their ability to use their tools should be, when they already know how to use their tools and can specialize their tools to fit their needs." Im not telling you you cant do this thing because i dont want you to. STOP ACTING LIKE A 4 YEAR OLD CHILD Im saying this thing isnt fair for everyone. Its hurting the game and the balance of the game. It takes away from the games theme heavily as well as trivializes enemies to the point that 3/4 players can stand and do nothing for the majority of a mission Its also been called an exploit by a dev "Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken. This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you." My example was an equal and opposite extreme. Just as trivializing enemies is an extreme. If you want to discredit my example youll have to show how its more extreme than what youre saying. Speaking of extremes Where the game now is an extreme and should be changed for the reasons mentioned in this and many threads before. You cant not have a stance on it then say we should be able to choose. Youre basically being a hypocrite by saying "Its not wrong or right but i think it should stay" Might as well have said it was right, thats obviously your position on it "I know damn well I'm right." You know what I know damn well im right too. We have something in common Is that an argument that isnt subjective? No Have you given at least one yet? Kind of but not a particularly good one since all you said was "He wants to change this thing and thats a fact" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The problem I see with the entire subject is that one portion of the community feels the energy mechanics are broken and the other likes them that way. Energy in this game was at it's core a mechanism designed to prevent spam. That mechanism has become broken and entirely worthless as a gating mechanism as it was previously designed and therefore a revamp must occur to bring powers back to a gate-able state to ensure balance. That is the part p42w players hate, the fact that they cannot defend the WHY they are supposed to be allowed to continue to abuse a faulty mechanic. Oh also the fact that some players actually want to balance said system. Unfortunately all proper reason falls on def ears and they then cite examples of bad design decisions that run counter to the DEvs own words and mechanics. It is understandable to think we were allowed to play this way but it goes completely against the idea of an energy system period if people can simply bypass it constantly. It's ok though even DEvs make mistakes, they just take a while to rectify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageBanshee Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 4 spamming can be quite aggrevating, especially when everyone except you is doing it. I was running Ember once, and was playing with an Ash and Saryn. For every kill I got, they got closer to 18 kills. My ult was to slow to kill and they could kill endlessly without the use of a weapon. Meanwhile, I am trying to rely on my weapon to secure the few kills I could. Was this fun for Ash? Probably. Was it fun for me? Absolutely not. You say I can choose my style of play, but my main goal is to have fun. I dislike being forced to ability spam just to make the game enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If your idea of balance is hurting how people play simply because you have some twisted view of how they should play the game, it isn't balance. You play the game how you want to play it, and enjoy, that's all there is to it. You don't have the right to go up to someone and say "you need to play it a different way so you have fun, because I say it's balanced." Nope, you don't have the right to say that. Neither does it make you right. No that's not all there's to it. A player is allowed to have fun within the games restrictions, the game should provide them with diversity and challenge to provide as many people as possible with options, different but satisfying ways to play the game. Now the problem with Warframe is that it doesn't have any restrictions, and yet somehow it manages to restrict you to one way of playing the game if you don't want to end up as dead-weight to your team. You either go corrupted efficiency build or else you'll never be able to compete with/or contribute to your team. Screw any other option at your disposal, if you use them, you are objectively inferior, not just subjectively. Whatever that certain way is for someone to have fun, if they have other avenues they find enjoyable, then that's up to them to decide what they want to have fun with and how to enjoy it. This is the same argument as your first paragraph. I'll reroute my answer to my first paragraph. Your point, haha, no, it doesn't, because I'm advocating for freedom of choice for how you want to play, while for some dissenting reason you continue to rabble saying "no, you cannot play how you want to play". It just so happens that my vie for freedom of choice also coincides how people can have fun by having the freedom of choice. You speak of Freedom of choice?! Do you even know why people discuss balance? It's so that a player never should feel inferior to another just because he chose another way to play the game, that the choice the player makes can still keep him relevant in a game, so that a players choice never becomes completely inferior or irrelevant to another! The entire point of balance is to strengthen player choice! Yet here you are trying to argue that keeping the current system is Freedom of Choice? How many choices do you have in the game exactly? Nuke StronK or Nuke many? Wow, such variety! Sounds like bias to me. Whoa there Lucy, points in my argument are subjective, as is how people have fun, since you wanted to bring up that topic. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just because you answer the questions with objectivity doesn't mean everything you said was fact. Just because I chose to have confluences of passion and subjectivity on my posts doesn't mean it's wrong. So 4+4 = 12 right? I must be correct because I am very passionate about math and no amount of objectivity can prove me wrong. Presenting your arguments with objectivity serves to strengthen the presentation of it. Presenting your argument with bias and subjectivity does the complete opposite and only serves to tear your own argument apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 4 spamming can be quite aggrevating, especially when everyone except you is doing it. I was running Ember once, and was playing with an Ash and Saryn. For every kill I got, they got closer to 18 kills. My ult was to slow to kill and they could kill endlessly without the use of a weapon. Meanwhile, I am trying to rely on my weapon to secure the few kills I could. Was this fun for Ash? Probably. Was it fun for me? Absolutely not. You say I can choose my style of play, but my main goal is to have fun. I dislike being forced to ability spam just to make the game enjoyable. This is where they tell you to play with friends, avoid pubs, or go solo as if they couldnt do the same thing Hypocrites, Masters of Irony, Defenders of Bias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 all we really need to do is have a better clamp on Energy. we don't really have one currently. if you mapwipe a room with an AoE Blast, you definitely picked up enough Energy to do it a few more times. lots of Efficiency, and piles of Energy. basically ad infinitum Energy unless Enemies are stealing it from us. and the Enemies that steal it from us often steal it quite harshly, because there's so much Energy available that they need to steal it harshly for us to notice. --------- some Abilities that aren't Slot 4 are also kind've meh. some of them are great, some are good enough, but some are basically useless. not to mention a general lack of any sort of Synergy. make Players want to use all of their Abilities, that's how you get people to... use all of their Abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 all we really need to do is have a better clamp on Energy. we don't really have one currently. if you mapwipe a room with an AoE Blast, you definitely picked up enough Energy to do it a few more times. lots of Efficiency, and piles of Energy. basically ad infinitum Energy unless Enemies are stealing it from us. and the Enemies that steal it from us often steal it quite harshly, because there's so much Energy available that they need to steal it harshly for us to notice. --------- some Abilities that aren't Slot 4 are also kind've meh. some of them are great, some are good enough, but some are basically useless. not to mention a general lack of any sort of Synergy. make Players want to use all of their Abilities, that's how you get people to... use all of their Abilities. If you do clear a room with a 4 its fair to be able to collect the spoils of it i think Its just stopping the repetition and overpaying players thats an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 4 spamming can be quite aggrevating, especially when everyone except you is doing it. I was running Ember once, and was playing with an Ash and Saryn. For every kill I got, they got closer to 18 kills. My ult was to slow to kill and they could kill endlessly without the use of a weapon. Meanwhile, I am trying to rely on my weapon to secure the few kills I could. Was this fun for Ash? Probably. Was it fun for me? Absolutely not. You say I can choose my style of play, but my main goal is to have fun. I dislike being forced to ability spam just to make the game enjoyable. No that's not all there's to it. A player is allowed to have fun within the games restrictions, the game should provide them with diversity and challenge to provide as many people as possible with options, different but satisfying ways to play the game. Now the problem with Warframe is that it doesn't have any restrictions, and yet somehow it manages to restrict you to one way of playing the game if you don't want to end up as dead-weight to your team. You either go corrupted efficiency build or else you'll never be able to compete with/or contribute to your team. Screw any other option at your disposal, if you use them, you are objectively inferior, not just subjectively. This is the same argument as your first paragraph. I'll reroute my answer to my first paragraph. You speak of Freedom of choice?! Do you even know why people discuss balance? It's so that a player never should feel inferior to another just because he chose another way to play the game, that the choice the player makes can still keep him relevant in a game, so that a players choice never becomes completely inferior or irrelevant to another! The entire point of balance is to strengthen player choice! Yet here you are trying to argue that keeping the current system is Freedom of Choice? How many choices do you have in the game exactly? Nuke StronK or Nuke many? Wow, such variety! Sounds like bias to me. So 4+4 = 12 right? I must be correct because I am very passionate about math and no amount of objectivity can prove me wrong. Presenting your arguments with objectivity serves to strengthen the presentation of it. Presenting your argument with bias and subjectivity does the complete opposite and only serves to tear your own argument apart. This is where they tell you to play with friends, avoid pubs, or go solo as if they couldnt do the same thing Hypocrites, Masters of Irony, Defenders of Bias All of the above is the summation of my entire conversation with AlphaHorsman on the matter. His point is freedom of choice while in the same vein thinking it is okay for other people in the mission to be unable to participate in a manner of their choosing DUE TO THE SPAM HE SUPPORTS. He supports exploiting a flawed system to the fullest. When balance is brought up he states it is completely possible to do the same amounts of damage or more with guns citing Paris Primes potential 100k damage against a SINGLE target(sans Shred) vs his measly 3k RJ on Excal(of course he fails to mention the aimbot nature, infinite targets and 50m radius) oh and the ability to do this every 1.5 seconds. Thus hiding the clear imbalance we point out. He then states that Ults are supposed to be more powerful than everything in the game(ignoring for the moment the basic ideal that ults are supposed to be a oh sh1t button when attacked by a horde of enemies and you have no choice, not a win button to be spammed constantly) He then tells said individuals the onus to leave the mission is theirs when said spam is the problem in the first place. Unfortunately it is a never ending vicious cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Feel free to chime in here anyone with a hankering to be clear on your ideas regarding p42w specifically. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/379091-press-4-to-win/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 All of the above is the summation of my entire conversation with AlphaHorsman on the matter. His point is freedom of choice while in the same vein thinking it is okay for other people in the mission to be unable to participate in a manner of their choosing DUE TO THE SPAM HE SUPPORTS. He supports exploiting a flawed system to the fullest. When balance is brought up he states it is completely possible to do the same amounts of damage or more with guns citing Paris Primes potential 100k damage against a SINGLE target(sans Shred) vs his measly 3k RJ on Excal(of course he fails to mention the aimbot nature, infinite targets and 50m radius) oh and the ability to do this every 1.5 seconds. Thus hiding the clear imbalance we point out. He then states that Ults are supposed to be more powerful than everything in the game(ignoring for the moment the basic ideal that ults are supposed to be a oh sh1t button when attacked by a horde of enemies and you have no choice, not a win button to be spammed constantly) He then tells said individuals the onus to leave the mission is theirs when said spam is the problem in the first place. Unfortunately it is a never ending vicious cycle. TL;DR /Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If you do clear a room with a 4 its fair to be able to collect the spoils of it i think Its just stopping the repetition and overpaying players thats an issue certainly. except most Players will spend 25 Energy to do so, and pick up like, 200. :| i tried to outline making all Abilities more tempting to use as a compromise solution to allow Energy to be somewhat plentiful (still too plentiful currently or something like that), but not be stifling Players. so that we can get Players to use all kinds of Abilities, without needing to Energy starve everyone in order to force them to (lol, more like they'll bind Energy Restore to W but that's a different story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageBanshee Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I do not mind the idea of energy pickups being removed from the game and replaced with a more consistent flow of energy. But if energy pickups are here to stay, then I propose that ability kills do not provide energy, and rare drops should be more common. I think this will give more gameplay strategy to the community as a whole with a couple dissatisfied horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xCaptainObviousx Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Want a newb's opinion on the energy? I feel like there are 2 states in this game when it comes to energy for abilities: "Oh my god, there is no energy ANYWHERE" or "Seriously? ANOTHER energy orb?" but there is nothing in between. I either hold back on the powers because I fear not being able to use it when I REALLY need it or I spam it endlessly because the entire room is blue. I liked the idea of having energy for "base" moves regenerate on it's own and "uber" moves being charged by using "base" moves or dealing damage in other ways. ... But that's just my opinion after 3 days of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Want a newb's opinion on the energy? I feel like there are 2 states in this game when it comes to energy for abilities: "Oh my god, there is no energy ANYWHERE" or "Seriously? ANOTHER energy orb?" but there is nothing in between. I either hold back on the powers because I fear not being able to use it when I REALLY need it or I spam it endlessly because the entire room is blue. I liked the idea of having energy for "base" moves regenerate on it's own and "uber" moves being charged by using "base" moves or dealing damage in other ways. ... But that's just my opinion after 3 days of playing. Once you get energy siphon alot of those issues are gone Then soon after its not much of a worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Once you get energy siphon alot of those issues are gone Then soon after its not much of a worry Absolutely, and then factoring in fleeting and streamline it becomes patently obvious that the system can be abused quite easily. Then along come syndicate weapons which if they were not powerful enough dps wise already we can then also get a nice energy proc that instantly refunds energy and temporarily increases maximum energy. Let's add to this flawed system by later adding Primed Flow, and then a short time from now we will no doubt get a Primed streamline further allowing us to avoid the negative duration on Fleeting Expertise. It seems as though the system gets more and more flawed constantly. It boggles the mind how DE expects the energy gating mechanism to work at all when we constantly have means available to completely ignore the feature. Honestly it seems as though they may as well remove energy gating completely and just let everyone spam all they want at no cost since they do so already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xCaptainObviousx Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Once you get energy siphon alot of those issues are gone Then soon after its not much of a worry So what you're saying is that the system is fine because there is one mandatory mod that fixes half of the issues, but if you don't have it you're screwed? It doesn't solve the other issue, when you're just drowning in useless energy boosts and just bombard everything into oblivion because there is nothing to hold it back. Edited January 14, 2015 by xCaptainObviousx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 So what you're saying is that the system is fine because there is one mandatory mod that fixes half of the issues, but if you don't have it you're screwed? It doesn't solve the other issue, when you're just drowning in useless energy boosts and just bombard everything into oblivion because there is nothing to hold it back. No. At the end ES isnt necessary at all Early on when you dont have access to the many mods and items or powers that give you access to energy in bulk Energy Siphon is the best option Everyone should have an aura. Theres no real benefit to not having one and when youre starving for energy early on this mod is your gateway to other energy generators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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