Energy 2.0: The Anti-4 To Win And A Bit Of Balancing

[geninrising]

You are telling people "we will change how you play because we think it is better for you and the game" when we're saying "Play like how you wanna play, and we'll play like how we wanna play." The only problem I see here is that you're trying to force people to play a certain way, and yet we are telling you that should never be the case. I don't know how this isn't getting through to you, but all we're saying is that you can play as how you want, and be happy with it. We will do the same. If you don't like how some people play, that doesn't give you the right to change it.

 

You're going to run into people you like and you don't when it comes to pugs, that's the nature of pugs. That doesn't mean you need them to play the game your way, nor they force you to play the game their way. If you want to play with people who play like you, caster or gunner, you can go out and find those people through recruiting. But DON'T expect everyone in a PUG match to play like how you play, and DON'T tell them that they should play like how you play. You'll meet people with like minded play styles, and people who have different, but you shouldn't force a system wide change simply because people have different play styles from you.

 

DE is DE, you're not their voice, don't try to be, because you are falling flat with it.

 

If you go to recruiting and want certain people, then ask for them. It isn't an "issue" to ask for people who want to play like how you play, or have complementary styles of play to yours. What is an "issue" is when people think they should be able to force a certain mentality on others simply because the mentality is not their own. I've seen people complain about the guy with the Quanta or the guy with the Boltor Prime killing everything in sight, essentially your argument about "sapping the fun out of the game" so don't you dare try that argument with me and guns. Should those guns be nerfed? No, they function as intended and do their jobs well.

 

Using powers is exploiting the system? Oh gosh hand me a glass of whatever concoction of "reason" you're drinking.

 

There are already ways to which the game hampers powers. Eximi and Nullifiers are prime example

 

 

We ask for balance(so that we CAN play, how hard is that to understand?) and the spammers ask for their way. Balance is healthy for a game and an imbalanced game always deals with this bickering and infighting.

 

We ask that we not HAVE to segregate ourselves to avoid this play behavior that even DE has stated is unintended.(yes DE Steve did say that it is an exploitation of an energy loophole) So how am I falling flat?

 

The fact is that I am only re-iterating facts. I could personally care less if people spam, however it is  A.unintended(again per DE), B.exploitative(again per DE) C.preventing players from being able to play the way they choose to play in lots of circumstances, and now to cap it off you spammers continue to suggest D. we players that don't agree should segregate ourselves and reduce our chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix for our concerns?

[SteavewithanA]

T

 

 

 

The problem with BOTH of your arguments is you are doing the exact same thing as everyone asking for the change except our way just simply wants balance which is for the benefit of the game.

 

We claim spammers are invalidating our playstyle taking away our choices.

You claim we are trying to take away your choices.

 

You claim you are doing as intended.

DE claims it is not intended and anyone that does it is exploiting a loophole.

 

You claim we should play solo or go recruiting people to play our way.

Wait a sec, we never told you to go to a hole somewhere and not be able to play in pugs.

 

So how about the Spammer recruit people who are okay with p42w as they are clearly the issue?

After all it's not melee or gun users ruining the fun in peoples games.

 

Shouldn't it be THEIR burden as a consequence for exploitation of the system in place?

How are we both doing the exact same thing as people asking for a change? We are advocating freedom and player choice. Not taking away choice...

 

Spammers are not invalidating your playstyle and taking away your choices. You have the choice to leave or stay. They cant take that away from you. If you don't like the way someone else is playing the game then find a different group. Simple as that. You are refusing to utilize your choice. There is a difference. If I don't like the way a random group is playing I leave. I don't sit in a group that I don't like. I take the responsibility for my own enjoyment. I don't put it on others. By advocating that the game be changed so that people can't spam their powers you are advocating to take away choice....

 

I claim that we are using our skills as they were designed. No one is hacking their character to gain unlimited energy for ability spam. No one is exploiting anything. Using skills / gear items as they were designed is not an exploit. If DE didn't intend for Energy Vampire to return energy to the whole team than they kinda screwed the pooch on that one because that is exactly the skill they designed. If that wasn't intended then that is a major oversight. If they didn't intend to have energy restores restore energy then not sure how they got in the game. If they didn't intend for Primed Flow to increase or energy pool then why did they put it in the game? A mistake? Did they mean for it to do something else but screwed up the coding? If they didn't intend for 2 of the 6 new syndicate weapons to restore 25% max energy then how in the hell did they get coded that way? Keep in mind that these things were added AFTER viver. After they made statements that they didn't intend for powers to be spammed in such a manner they added more ways to spam powers. So i'll say it again. Either these things are working as they were designed / intended or DE has absolutely no idea what content is being added to their game.

 

Yes I do say that you should play with like minded individuals. I say this because you want everyone in your squad to play a certain way. That puts the burden on you. If you want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played then you should play with others that share the same mindset. Thats another difference between the "play how I want" group and the "ability spammers" that you seem to be to dense to comprehend. They dont care how you play. They don't care if you don't use a single ability. It doesn't matter to them. They are not expecting you to conform to their play style. You are expecting them to conform to yours. That puts the burden on you. If you want to play in random groups then that is what you will get. Random. Random people play random ways. I'll say it again just to make it clear. You want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played. You want to force others to play the way you want. It's all about you. "Play my way.". "Play how I want.". If you don't like the way your squad is playing find a different one. When you demand that others play your way the burden is on you to find people that want to play that way. Not on the rest of the community to conform to you wishes.

 

Spammers don't need to recruit players UNLESS they expect everyone in their squad to spam powers as well. If they want everyone in their squad to conform to their notion of how the game is played then they need to find like minded people to play with. But thats the thing mate. They don't. They don't care how you or the others in their squad play. They are not trying to force you into a particular playstyle. They are, for the most part, willing to let you play however you see fit. But you're right on one thing. There has never been a thread about guns ruining other peoples fun. I've never once seen a thread claiming that some one with a Boltor Prime or a Penta was ruining someone else's fun. Never. Ever....

 

I have already addressed your claim that the burden falls on spammers to go to recruit chat. I have already addressed your claims that they are exploiting the system. But i'll reiterate just to be clear. Using abilities / gear as they were designed is not an exploit. It's not. Not. If they were not intended to be in the game then why are they in the game? The burden falls on the individual that expects the rest of their squad to conform to their notion of how the game should be played. Whichever group they happen to be in. But since I have never seen a thread where a spammer was complaining that someone was not spamming their powers i'm going to continue to draw the conclusion that it is the non spammers who want everyone else to conform to their desires and as such the burden falls on them. You have the choice to play as you like, with whomever you like. I support everyone's ability to have choice. If you don't like the way your squad mates are playing you have the choice to leave and find a different squad.

Edited January 12, 2015 by SteavewithanA

[AlphaHorseman]

We ask for balance(so that we CAN play, how hard is that to understand?) and the spammers ask for their way. Balance is healthy for a game and an imbalanced game always deals with this bickering and infighting.

 

We ask that we not HAVE to segregate ourselves to avoid this play behavior that even DE has stated is unintended.(yes DE Steve did say that it is an exploitation of an energy loophole) So how am I falling flat?

 

The fact is that I am only re-iterating facts. I could personally care less if people spam, however it is  A.unintended(again per DE), B.exploitative(again per DE) C.preventing players from being able to play the way they choose to play in lots of circumstances, and now to cap it off you spammers continue to suggest D. we players that don't agree should segregate ourselves and reduce our chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix for our concerns?

What balance? What's imbalanced? You can shoot things with your guns with tens of thousands of damage, squeeze the trigger and anything in my LoS goes bye bye. I can use my powers and deal massive AoE damage or CC/Utility.

 

You don't HAVE TO segregate yourselves, NO ONE SAID YOU DID! People play different from you, that doesn't mean you go and make an entire systems change to force others to play like how you do. You're failing to see that you aren't forced to do anything, and yet are trying to force others to do something.

 

Don't try to perverse the facts. You know how DE is combating power spam? Nullifiers, Eximus, Ancient Healers, so on and so forth! What they aren't doing is directly nerfing players themselves. They shouldn't be doing that in the first place. Nobody is preventing anything, what you are suggesting, however, is preventing people from playing how they want to play. No one is forcing you to do anything, you do you, and they do them. Yet, you seem to enjoy enforcing some half baked mentality of "Balance" when you lord the idea of hurting people as the way to do so. That's completely wrong.

 

and you know what, read this:

 

How are we both doing the exact same thing as people asking for a change? We are advocating freedom and player choice. Not taking away choice...

 

Spammers are not invalidating your playstyle and taking away your choices. You have the choice to leave or stay. They cant take that away from you. If you don't like the way someone else is playing the game then find a different group. Simple as that. You are refusing to utilize your choice. There is a difference. If I don't like the way a random group is playing I leave. I don't sit in a group that I don't like. I take the responsibility for my own enjoyment. I don't put it on others. By advocating that the game be changed so that people can't spam their powers you are advocating to take away choice....

 

I claim that we are using our skills as they were designed. No one is hacking their character to gain unlimited energy for ability spam. No one is exploiting anything. Using skills / gear items as they were designed is not an exploit. If DE didn't intend for Energy Vampire to return energy to the whole team than they kinda screwed the pooch on that one because that is exactly the skill they designed. If that wasn't intended then that is a major oversight. If they didn't intend to have energy restores restore energy then not sure how they got in the game. If they didn't intend for Primed Flow to increase or energy pool then why did they put it in the game? A mistake? Did they mean for it to do something else but screwed up the coding? If they didn't intend for 2 of the 6 new syndicate weapons to restore 25% max energy then how in the hell did they get coded that way? Keep in mind that these things were added AFTER viver. After they made statements that they didn't intend for powers to be spammed in such a manner they added more ways to spam powers. So i'll say it again. Either these things are working as they were designed / intended or DE has absolutely no idea what content is being added to their game.

 

Yes I do say that you should play with like minded individuals. I say this because you want everyone in your squad to play a certain way. That puts the burden on you. If you want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played then you should play with others that share the same mindset. Thats another difference between the "play how I want" group and the "ability spammers" that you seem to be to dense to comprehend. They dont care how you play. They don't care if you don't use a single ability. It doesn't matter to them. They are not expecting you to conform to their play style. You are expecting them to conform to yours. That puts the burden on you. If you want to play in random groups then that is what you will get. Random. Random people play random ways. I'll say it again just to make it clear. You want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played. You want to force others to play the way you want. It's all about you. "Play my way.". "Play how I want.". If you don't like the way your squad is playing find a different one. When you demand that others play your way the burden is on you to find people that want to play that way. Not on the rest of the community to conform to you wishes.

 

Spammers don't need to recruit players UNLESS they expect everyone in their squad to spam powers as well. If they want everyone in their squad to conform to their notion of how the game is played then they need to find like minded people to play with. But thats the thing mate. They don't. They don't care how you or the others in their squad play. They are not trying to force you into a particular playstyle. They are, for the most part, willing to let you play however you see fit. But you're right on  one thing. There had never been a thread about guns ruining other peoples fun. I've never once seen a thread claiming that some one with a Boltor Prime or a Penta was ruining someone else's fun. Never. Ever....

 

I have already addressed your claim that the burden falls on spammers to go to recruit chat. I have already addressed your claims that they are exploiting the system. But i'll reiterate just to be clear. Using abilities / gear as they were designed is not an exploit. It's not. Not. If they were not intended to be in the game then why are they in the game? The burden falls on the individual that expects the rest of their squad to conform to their notion of how the game should be played. Whichever group they happen to be in. But since I have never seen a thread where a spammer was complaining that someone was not spamming their powers i'm going to continue to draw the conclusion that it is the non spammers who want everyone else to conform to their desires and as such the burden falls on them. You have the choice to play as you like, with whomever you like. I support everyone's ability to have choice. If you don't like the way your squad mates are playing you have the choice to leave and find a different squad.

They say it far better than I can, because I'm honestly fed up with it. If you want to respond, respond to this quote above.

Edited January 12, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[SteavewithanA]

We ask for balance(so that we CAN play, how hard is that to understand?) and the spammers ask for their way. Balance is healthy for a game and an imbalanced game always deals with this bickering and infighting.

 

We ask that we not HAVE to segregate ourselves to avoid this play behavior that even DE has stated is unintended.(yes DE Steve did say that it is an exploitation of an energy loophole) So how am I falling flat?

 

The fact is that I am only re-iterating facts. I could personally care less if people spam, however it is  A.unintended(again per DE), B.exploitative(again per DE) C.preventing players from being able to play the way they choose to play in lots of circumstances, and now to cap it off you spammers continue to suggest D. we players that don't agree should segregate ourselves and reduce our chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix for our concerns?

You can play the way you want now. You don't need "balance" to do so. You only need "balance" to force others to play your way. (How hard is that to understand?)

 

You only have to segregate yourself if you want everyone to conform to your notion of how to play. That is the case in any game. If I expect everyone in my squad to run meta builds and meta group comps then I have to segregate myself form the majority of the player base. Thats just the way it is. Any time you expect your entire team to conform to your notion of how to play the game, regardless of what that notion is, you have to segregate yourself form those who don't.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "actions speak louder than words."? For the sake of argument i'll assume you have. Saying one thing, "abilities should not be spammed", then adding items into the game after making that statement should tell you enough of DEs true feelings on the subject. I can say that i'm a millionaire. But if I have 20 bucks in the bank what I say means nothing. If by "reducing your chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix" you really mean "the majority of players play in a way I don't like, making me the minority, I am not willing to find other players who share my mindset, because there is no one else that shares my mindset, not enough of the community shares my views for me to find 3 others to play with at any given time, because no one who agrees with my view in this thread is one of those people, and I expect the majority to play how I want because I said so" well......yeah.....

 

Instead of changing the game to fit your notion of how to play I say add more enemy types like nullifiers. Add more enemies that are immune / resistant to powers. I enjoy them very much. By their very presence they change the dynamic of the battlefield. Thats a good thing. Adding ways to counteract abilities without major reworks / nerfs to energy systems is awesome. They keep us on our toes and remind us that we can't rely solely on our abilities. Adding more high threat, high priority enemies like Tar MOAs is a great step in the right direction. Forcing players to be aware of their surroundings and prioritize enemies is a great thing and I wholeheartedly support it. Put in more disrupters. Not paying attention? All your energy is gone. Can't cast now. Spread out points in interception missions so you cant stand in the center of the map and kill everything on it. I'm all for this. FULL DISCLOSURE: I detest interception so I may be a bit biased on this one. These are the ways they can reduce the effectiveness of abilities without taking away player choice.

Edited January 12, 2015 by SteavewithanA

[-FV-Metheria]

This thread has provided a lot of lulz. +1

[geninrising]

How is it unfair to ask that the game be balanced so there is no need to argue over to spam or not to spam?

as an Addendum to the above question, How is gunplay versus spam balanced? LOS at limited range versus massive aoe nuke 50-100m range.

Infinite spam versus ammo constraints?

 

Why is there even a conversation happening like this? If it were balanced and not a problem then these arguments would not occur, instead frames themselves and weapons would be the focal points of contention and not a "playstyle".

 

Why is this topic ALWAYS so hotly contested? Because it is a problem to a very large portion of the community that feel it removes enjoyment from a large portion of the games content and even prevents them from playing in a pug at all if said spam occurs. Thus forcing the player that feels it is a problem further problems because they have to find another group and hope against hope that they do not encounter the same thing, or barring that recruit specifically for a "fun" group. Everything in the game should add to it's enjoyment and not be a cause to avoid something.

 

Why did DE specifically state that the spam was unintended and an exploit? Perhaps they just don't know what to do at this point now that they have come this far, hence why we make these posts. Obviously they are unsure of how to proceed and are potentially just waiting for enough community feedback to act. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by geninrising

[AlphaHorseman]

How is it unfair to ask that the game be balanced so there is no need to argue over to spam or not to spam?

as an Addendum to the above question, How is gunplay versus spam balanced? LOS at limited range versus massive aoe nuke 50-100m range.

Infinite spam versus ammo constraints?

 

Why is there even a conversation happening like this? If it were balanced and not a problem then these arguments would not occur, instead frames themselves and weapons would be the focal points of contention and not a "playstyle".

 

Why is this topic ALWAYS so hotly contested? Because it is a problem to a very large portion of the community that feel it removes enjoyment from a large portion of the games content and even prevents them from playing in a pug at all if said spam occurs. Thus forcing the player that feels it is a problem further problems because they have to find another group and hope against hope that they do not encounter the same thing, or barring that recruit specifically for a "fun" group. Everything in the game should add to it's enjoyment and not be a cause to avoid something.

 

Why did DE specifically state that the spam was unintended and an exploit? Perhaps they just don't know what to do at this point now that they have come this far, hence why we make these posts. Obviously they are unsure of how to proceed and are potentially just waiting for enough community feedback to act. 

Bullets can go farther than aoe. What aoe skills are you using?

 

You have ammo packs, ammo pick up, and ammo restores, so don't try that useless notion. You can spam ONLY IF you have enough energy and/or high efficiency, so please, don't try that with me.

 

We are having this conversation because you can't get it that you're free to play as you play. People have that freedom, and you shouldn't take that away. "Everything in the game should add to it's enjoyment" and yet you want to rescind choice, hypocritical don't you think?

 

Why did DE specifically add in Primed Continuity and Primed Flow then? With a Primed Streamline on the way? Perhaps it's because they are proceeding as they wanted to. Obviously, it isn't what you wanted it to be so you're trying to use outdated quotes that have been trumped by their actions of releasing these mods and the rest. So please, don't try to fall back on that useless crux of an argument. Actions speak much louder than words.

 

Again, here ya go:

 

SteavewithanA, on 11 Jan 2015 - 8:09 PM, said:

How are we both doing the exact same thing as people asking for a change? We are advocating freedom and player choice. Not taking away choice...

 

Spammers are not invalidating your playstyle and taking away your choices. You have the choice to leave or stay. They cant take that away from you. If you don't like the way someone else is playing the game then find a different group. Simple as that. You are refusing to utilize your choice. There is a difference. If I don't like the way a random group is playing I leave. I don't sit in a group that I don't like. I take the responsibility for my own enjoyment. I don't put it on others. By advocating that the game be changed so that people can't spam their powers you are advocating to take away choice....

 

I claim that we are using our skills as they were designed. No one is hacking their character to gain unlimited energy for ability spam. No one is exploiting anything. Using skills / gear items as they were designed is not an exploit. If DE didn't intend for Energy Vampire to return energy to the whole team than they kinda screwed the pooch on that one because that is exactly the skill they designed. If that wasn't intended then that is a major oversight. If they didn't intend to have energy restores restore energy then not sure how they got in the game. If they didn't intend for Primed Flow to increase or energy pool then why did they put it in the game? A mistake? Did they mean for it to do something else but screwed up the coding? If they didn't intend for 2 of the 6 new syndicate weapons to restore 25% max energy then how in the hell did they get coded that way? Keep in mind that these things were added AFTER viver. After they made statements that they didn't intend for powers to be spammed in such a manner they added more ways to spam powers. So i'll say it again. Either these things are working as they were designed / intended or DE has absolutely no idea what content is being added to their game.

 

Yes I do say that you should play with like minded individuals. I say this because you want everyone in your squad to play a certain way. That puts the burden on you. If you want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played then you should play with others that share the same mindset. Thats another difference between the "play how I want" group and the "ability spammers" that you seem to be to dense to comprehend. They dont care how you play. They don't care if you don't use a single ability. It doesn't matter to them. They are not expecting you to conform to their play style. You are expecting them to conform to yours. That puts the burden on you. If you want to play in random groups then that is what you will get. Random. Random people play random ways. I'll say it again just to make it clear. You want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played. You want to force others to play the way you want. It's all about you. "Play my way.". "Play how I want.". If you don't like the way your squad is playing find a different one. When you demand that others play your way the burden is on you to find people that want to play that way. Not on the rest of the community to conform to you wishes.

 

Spammers don't need to recruit players UNLESS they expect everyone in their squad to spam powers as well. If they want everyone in their squad to conform to their notion of how the game is played then they need to find like minded people to play with. But thats the thing mate. They don't. They don't care how you or the others in their squad play. They are not trying to force you into a particular playstyle. They are, for the most part, willing to let you play however you see fit. But you're right on  one thing. There had never been a thread about guns ruining other peoples fun. I've never once seen a thread claiming that some one with a Boltor Prime or a Penta was ruining someone else's fun. Never. Ever....

 

I have already addressed your claim that the burden falls on spammers to go to recruit chat. I have already addressed your claims that they are exploiting the system. But i'll reiterate just to be clear. Using abilities / gear as they were designed is not an exploit. It's not. Not. If they were not intended to be in the game then why are they in the game? The burden falls on the individual that expects the rest of their squad to conform to their notion of how the game should be played. Whichever group they happen to be in. But since I have never seen a thread where a spammer was complaining that someone was not spamming their powers i'm going to continue to draw the conclusion that it is the non spammers who want everyone else to conform to their desires and as such the burden falls on them. You have the choice to play as you like, with whomever you like. I support everyone's ability to have choice. If you don't like the way your squad mates are playing you have the choice to leave and find a different squad.

 

Oh and here too:

 

You can play the way you want now. You don't need balance to do so. You only need balance to force others to play your way. (How hard is that to understand?)

 

You only have to segregate yourself if you want everyone to conform to your notion of how to play. That is the case in any game. If I expect everyone in my squad to run meta builds and meta group comps then I have to segregate myself form the majority of the player base. Thats just the way it is. Any time you expect your entire team to conform to your notion of how to play the game, regardless of what that notion is, you have to segregate yourself form those who don't.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "actions speak louder than words."? For the sake of argument i'll assume you have. Saying one thing, "abilities should not be spammed", then adding items into the game after making that statement should tell you enough of DEs true feelings on the subject. I can say that i'm a millionaire. But if I have 20 bucks in the bank what I say means nothing. If by "reducing your chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix" you really mean "the majority of players play in a way I don't like, making me the minority, I am not willing to find other players who share my mindset, because there is no one else that shares my mindset, not enough of the community shares my views for me to find 3 others to play with at any given time, because no one who agrees with my view in this thread is one of those people, and I expect the majority to play how I want because I said so" well......yeah.....

[SageBanshee]

A) The way you play will, and always will be, the way developers tell you to play. And if they do not like the way players play their game, then they will change it, by either making one way inefficient or making another more effective.

B) we are not changing the way warframe is played. We are asking the developers to change the way the game is played. For some reason people think this post is an abomination because it changes how they will be playing warframe. No clue why... DE doesn't listen to its player base much at this point in time.

C) guns should have the highest dps in regards to single target damage. Abilities should do overall highest dps, survival utility, support, and buff/debuff effects. This is what I call balance. Both are used equally during high level encounters.

D) abilities are meant to be spammed. What should not happen is only one, of the four abilities, is being spammed. This is not supposed to happen and that warframe should be reworked.

E) I noticed my last post was so well written that nobody even tried debating my point of view. I don't know whether to be exalted or insulted. Just because I did not quote anyone doesn't mean this was not meant to be taken personally. Take it personally, it was written personally for the lot of you.

[geninrising]

Okay so let me get this quite clearly stated and subsequently please answer my statement.

 

You guys are OKAY with the majority of our content being trivialized to the point where you can simply press a single button to complete any objective you set out to accomplish?

 

So, why be here at all?

 

You enjoy standing in a location or at the most moving from room to room removing all obstacles and challenges instantaneously with little to no effort?

 

Do you have any pride at all?

 

The only thing I see are constant reminders that people are LAZY.

Laziness and complacency are a disease that rots our thinking causing ENTITLEMENT.

 

Some state that they are using the most efficient cost per amount of effort option available to them to achieve said goal. Is the only reason you are doing this to save you effort?

 

Shouldn't skill and pride in said skill be core to the experience in any game?

Great rewards should require great effort and mindlessly spamming a single key is effortless.

Granted I will give you this, setting up such a build requires a bit of effort, but do you really think that effort should end at setting up said build?

 

My last statement here is the notion that I am trying to challenge and the idea that ANYONE should be able to get ANYTHING with the absolute minimum amount of effort this ideal encourages.

 

Additionally the impact this has on a number of players causing them to literally quit playing because they think THAT setup is the best the game has to offer and subsequently they despair of ever having the time/resources to accomplish it or they just think that is boring as hell and give up.

 

The very notion of p42w is detrimental to the welfare of the game due to the fact that it literally turns WF into a farming simulator, let's press this one button over and over again and get everything we want. SMH

[AlphaHorseman]

A) The way you play will, and always will be, the way developers tell you to play. And if they do not like the way players play their game, then they will change it, by either making one way inefficient or making another more effective.

B) we are not changing the way warframe is played. We are asking the developers to change the way the game is played. For some reason people think this post is an abomination because it changes how they will be playing warframe. No clue why... DE doesn't listen to its player base much at this point in time.

C) guns should have the highest dps in regards to single target damage. Abilities should do overall highest dps, survival utility, support, and buff/debuff effects. This is what I call balance. Both are used equally during high level encounters.

D) abilities are meant to be spammed. What should not happen is only one, of the four abilities, is being spammed. This is not supposed to happen and that warframe should be reworked.

E) I noticed my last post was so well written that nobody even tried debating my point of view. I don't know whether to be exalted or insulted. Just because I did not quote anyone doesn't mean this was not meant to be taken personally. Take it personally, it was written personally for the lot of you.

1. True. I think DE has given us a template, though, and that we can build from the templates they give us. Hence why we have the massive customization system that allows players to tailor their frames and tools to their play style.

 

2. The idea of changing how the game is played is literally changing how WarFrame is played, I don't know what you meant by your statement.

 

3. Guns pretty much do have the highest DPS, a Boltor Prime or a Soma Prime, or the Syanoid Gammacor, Paris Prime, Dread, and others, those can hit a target far harder than any power can.

 

4. Agreed.

 

5. Don't know who you were directing it to, but I added this in just to add in my two cents.

 

 

-whatever this is-

Why should we answer your statements? You fail to answer ours at every turn. We answer yours whenever you post, but you seem to be unable to give us the same courtesy of being coherent and clear with it.

 

But, just to humor you:

 

I can trivialize anything in this game with a strum of my Paris Prime. That's a click of a button right there for you to consider. You build how you want to build, that's the key thing. You build for damage, of course you're going to be able to smash apart things that stand in your path if you went straight for power. That goes for abilities or guns.

 

I'm here because I enjoy the game and how I play. I'm here on the Forums because I want to try and grow the game and expand it, not hurt people like how your proposition is going to do.

 

At times I do like feeling that powerful, but that comes from me using the entirety from my kit, from my powers to my guns. Some people like utilizing one power, and good for them, I'm not angry at them for enjoying a video game. I'm not mad at them for simply playing the game how they want to play it.

 

Do you realize how stupid it is to bring pride into a video game argument?

 

The only thing I'm seeing from you is "nurf dez powerz bezcuz I don't lik how dey playz".

Don't be philosophical with me. The only entitlement I see here is from you. Entitled to say that players shouldn't play how they want to play. Entitled to try and say it is a vie for balance when all you're doing is hurting people who play different from you. Entitled to think you have some diluted vision of what the game should be. Entitled to try and hurt others for playing the game.

 

In a game that's about farming the hell out of something to farm the hell out of something else to continue to farm to fight RNG, uh, yeah I'm going to find the most efficient way. It doesn't mean I'll use it, just that the option is there for me to use. Whatever effort is involved is different from person to person, just as their play styles are. You, however, have no right to tell them they can't play how they want to play.

 

The core experience of any game is to have fun in the game. It isn't a game if you aren't having fun. You take away how people want to play, and that's how people aren't going to have fun. People set up their builds to cater to their way of playing, they're going to use those builds in missions. What are you talking about it all just being set up and no use? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

You realize how much hell people go through to maximize their builds? How much credits? How many cores? How many missions of XP grinding? How many missions of fighting with said weapons WarFrames? Only to have to Forma their maxed out gear and do it all over again. Do you realize how many forma you have to go through, and in turn all that hell all over again, to max out the mods and be able to fit them into their frames? You realize how much work that is? To finally be able to fine tune a frame and your weapons to exactly how you want to play it. Do you realize how much work people go through, the TIME and EFFORT it takes to do that? Not to mention trying to get an Orokin Reactor/Catalyst, either through trade or buying money. And you're writing ALL OF THIS off as "the absolute minimum amount of effort". That's completely unfounded.

 

Whatever they think is whatever they think, doesn't mean it's right or wrong. One build being the best set up is determined from person to person. They play the game how they want to play, they take away things from the game that they want to take away. Just because people say its META doesn't mean it's the only path you can tread. But of course, people left because they have the ability to use their abilities, that makes complete and total sense.

 

You're blinded to the fact that "everything we want" is blocked off by time walls, RNG walls, grind walls, and it isn't because of p42w, it's the nature of the game. We literally farm everything in the game to farm more things in the game to fight RNG to grind in the void to fight RNG. So please, don't try and be all melodramatic.

 

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, if you want to continue, please, feel free to answer these:

 

SteavewithanA, on 11 Jan 2015 - 8:09 PM, said:

How are we both doing the exact same thing as people asking for a change? We are advocating freedom and player choice. Not taking away choice...

 

Spammers are not invalidating your playstyle and taking away your choices. You have the choice to leave or stay. They cant take that away from you. If you don't like the way someone else is playing the game then find a different group. Simple as that. You are refusing to utilize your choice. There is a difference. If I don't like the way a random group is playing I leave. I don't sit in a group that I don't like. I take the responsibility for my own enjoyment. I don't put it on others. By advocating that the game be changed so that people can't spam their powers you are advocating to take away choice....

 

I claim that we are using our skills as they were designed. No one is hacking their character to gain unlimited energy for ability spam. No one is exploiting anything. Using skills / gear items as they were designed is not an exploit. If DE didn't intend for Energy Vampire to return energy to the whole team than they kinda screwed the pooch on that one because that is exactly the skill they designed. If that wasn't intended then that is a major oversight. If they didn't intend to have energy restores restore energy then not sure how they got in the game. If they didn't intend for Primed Flow to increase or energy pool then why did they put it in the game? A mistake? Did they mean for it to do something else but screwed up the coding? If they didn't intend for 2 of the 6 new syndicate weapons to restore 25% max energy then how in the hell did they get coded that way? Keep in mind that these things were added AFTER viver. After they made statements that they didn't intend for powers to be spammed in such a manner they added more ways to spam powers. So i'll say it again. Either these things are working as they were designed / intended or DE has absolutely no idea what content is being added to their game.

 

Yes I do say that you should play with like minded individuals. I say this because you want everyone in your squad to play a certain way. That puts the burden on you. If you want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played then you should play with others that share the same mindset. Thats another difference between the "play how I want" group and the "ability spammers" that you seem to be to dense to comprehend. They dont care how you play. They don't care if you don't use a single ability. It doesn't matter to them. They are not expecting you to conform to their play style. You are expecting them to conform to yours. That puts the burden on you. If you want to play in random groups then that is what you will get. Random. Random people play random ways. I'll say it again just to make it clear. You want everyone in your squad to conform to your notion of how the game should be played. You want to force others to play the way you want. It's all about you. "Play my way.". "Play how I want.". If you don't like the way your squad is playing find a different one. When you demand that others play your way the burden is on you to find people that want to play that way. Not on the rest of the community to conform to you wishes.

 

Spammers don't need to recruit players UNLESS they expect everyone in their squad to spam powers as well. If they want everyone in their squad to conform to their notion of how the game is played then they need to find like minded people to play with. But thats the thing mate. They don't. They don't care how you or the others in their squad play. They are not trying to force you into a particular playstyle. They are, for the most part, willing to let you play however you see fit. But you're right on  one thing. There had never been a thread about guns ruining other peoples fun. I've never once seen a thread claiming that some one with a Boltor Prime or a Penta was ruining someone else's fun. Never. Ever....

 

I have already addressed your claim that the burden falls on spammers to go to recruit chat. I have already addressed your claims that they are exploiting the system. But i'll reiterate just to be clear. Using abilities / gear as they were designed is not an exploit. It's not. Not. If they were not intended to be in the game then why are they in the game? The burden falls on the individual that expects the rest of their squad to conform to their notion of how the game should be played. Whichever group they happen to be in. But since I have never seen a thread where a spammer was complaining that someone was not spamming their powers i'm going to continue to draw the conclusion that it is the non spammers who want everyone else to conform to their desires and as such the burden falls on them. You have the choice to play as you like, with whomever you like. I support everyone's ability to have choice. If you don't like the way your squad mates are playing you have the choice to leave and find a different squad.

 

Oh and here too:

 

You can play the way you want now. You don't need balance to do so. You only need balance to force others to play your way. (How hard is that to understand?)

 

You only have to segregate yourself if you want everyone to conform to your notion of how to play. That is the case in any game. If I expect everyone in my squad to run meta builds and meta group comps then I have to segregate myself form the majority of the player base. Thats just the way it is. Any time you expect your entire team to conform to your notion of how to play the game, regardless of what that notion is, you have to segregate yourself form those who don't.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "actions speak louder than words."? For the sake of argument i'll assume you have. Saying one thing, "abilities should not be spammed", then adding items into the game after making that statement should tell you enough of DEs true feelings on the subject. I can say that i'm a millionaire. But if I have 20 bucks in the bank what I say means nothing. If by "reducing your chances of being able to play for extended periods of time thanks to the whole recruiting portion of your stated fix" you really mean "the majority of players play in a way I don't like, making me the minority, I am not willing to find other players who share my mindset, because there is no one else that shares my mindset, not enough of the community shares my views for me to find 3 others to play with at any given time, because no one who agrees with my view in this thread is one of those people, and I expect the majority to play how I want because I said so" well......yeah.....

 

Instead of changing the game to fit your notion of how to play I say add more enemy types like nullifiers. Add more enemies that are immune / resistant to powers. I enjoy them very much. By their very presence they change the dynamic of the battlefield. Thats a good thing. Adding ways to counteract abilities without major reworks / nerfs to energy systems is awesome. They keep us on our toes and remind us that we can't rely solely on our abilities. Adding more high threat, high priority enemies like Tar MOAs is a great step in the right direction. Forcing players to be aware of their surroundings and prioritize enemies is a great thing and I wholeheartedly support it. Put in more disrupters. Not paying attention? All your energy is gone. Can't cast now. Spread out points in interception missions so you cant stand in the center of the map and kill everything on it. I'm all for this. FULL DISCLOSURE: I detest interception so I may be a bit biased on this one. These are the ways they can reduce the effectiveness of abilities without taking away player choice.

[Azawarau]

You know

 

You can say change the game to force blah blah all day but that isnt what its about

 

You know it, i know it, the forums know it

 

The game is in a grave state of imbalance. Ironically youre equally forcing your own things onto others and thats jsut as unfair

 

So until the hypocrisy stops you can drop that lackluster argument

 

Until you can actually defend your point with more than just opinion, bias, personal gain, and actually reasonably show why something should be a certain way you dont have anything to stand on

 

The issue isnt forcing someone to play a certain way

 

Its the game not being within a reasonable balance where every frame and weapon and playstyle is equal and players cant simply trivialize the game or enemies forever or use exploits to bypass game mechanics and cheat their way to the top while others still play fair.

 

Youre forcing others to gimp themselves or cheat the game

 

TL;DR

 

Force isnt an argument

[AlphaHorseman]

You know

 

You can say change the game to force blah blah all day but that isnt what its about

 

You know it, i know it, the forums know it

 

The game is in a grave state of imbalance. Ironically youre equally forcing your own things onto others and thats jsut as unfair

 

So until the hypocrisy stops you can drop that lackluster argument

 

Until you can actually defend your point with more than just opinion, bias, personal gain, and actually reasonably show why something should be a certain way you dont have anything to stand on

 

The issue isnt forcing someone to play a certain way

 

Its the game not being within a reasonable balance where every frame and weapon and playstyle is equal and players cant simply trivialize the game or enemies forever or use exploits to bypass game mechanics and cheat their way to the top while others still play fair.

 

Youre forcing others to gimp themselves or cheat the game

 

TL;DR

 

Force isnt an argument

My argument stands to allow players to play their play style. DID I SAY ALL THE PLAY STYLES WERE EFFECTIVE?! No, I said people can play however they want to play. 

 

You can't see it, I can see it, the entire forums who read this I think can see it.

 

So until you can read instead of assume, you can drop the facade of actually understanding what I write.

 

I defended my point by telling them that you have avenues and options to play with people you like. If you don't like how people play, tough luck, they are enjoying the game a certain way. If want to play with people who play like you, you're going to have to find those kinds of people, that's the case for anyone in the game.

 

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. You can play however you want to play, you cannot, however, tell people how they should be playing. That's the whole point of my position.

 

We have the ability to make our guns and powers do massive amounts of damage, that's what you can do, and it'll smash apart most of the content in the game if you can use them a certain way. Doesn't mean it's wrong, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, all it means is that we have the ability to do so.

 

No one has to gimp themselves, what are you saying?

 

TL:DR

 

Read and understand, because force isn't the entirety of my argument, Freedom of Choice is.

[Azawarau]

My argument stands to allow players to play their play style. DID I SAY ALL THE PLAY STYLES WERE EFFECTIVE?! No, I said people can play however they want to play. 

 

You can't see it, I can see it, the entire forums who read this I think can see it.

 

So until you can read instead of assume, you can drop the facade of actually understanding what I write.

 

I defended my point by telling them that you have avenues and options to play with people you like. If you don't like how people play, tough luck, they are enjoying the game a certain way. If want to play with people who play like you, you're going to have to find those kinds of people, that's the case for anyone in the game.

 

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. You can play however you want to play, you cannot, however, tell people how they should be playing. That's the whole point of my position.

 

We have the ability to make our guns and powers do massive amounts of damage, that's what you can do, and it'll smash apart most of the content in the game if you can use them a certain way. Doesn't mean it's wrong, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, all it means is that we have the ability to do so.

 

No one has to gimp themselves, what are you saying?

 

TL:DR

 

Read and understand, because force isn't the entirety of my argument, Freedom of Choice is.

This is going to be another one of those really easy "If youre complaining about force why arent you complaining about these things" arguments

 isnt it?

 

Cause if force is your issue then youve got a big plate to fill

 

This isnt a sandbox

 

At some point you have to realize this isnt Burger King and at some point the game has to pass you limitations otherwise youll end up with alot of the issues we have now

[AlphaHorseman]

This is going to be another one of those really easy "If youre complaining about force why arent you complaining about these things" arguments

 isnt it?

 

Cause if force is your issue then youve got a big plate to fill

 

This isnt a sandbox

 

At some point you have to realize this isnt Burger King and at some point the game has to pass you limitations otherwise youll end up with alot of the issues we have now

Some Play Styles will be more effective than others, it doesn't mean we should force people to use those play styles. It's their choice to use them.

 

Force isn't my issue, removing Freedom to Choose is.

 

This isn't a sandbox, but DE has given us high degrees of Customization that allow us to tailor things to our play styles.

 

The game already does, depending on how you play with what you have at hand. I said people can do as they will. It may not be the most effective route, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop them from taking that route.

 

What are you talking about limitations? I feel as though I might not be getting your whole point.

[Azawarau]

Some Play Styles will be more effective than others, it doesn't mean we should force people to use those play styles. It's their choice to use them.

 

Force isn't my issue, removing Freedom to Choose is.

 

This isn't a sandbox, but DE has given us high degrees of Customization that allow us to tailor things to our play styles.

 

The game already does, depending on how you play with what you have at hand. I said people can do as they will. It may not be the most effective route, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop them from taking that route.

 

What are you talking about limitations? I feel as though I might not be getting your whole point.

Removing freedom to choose as in forcing them not to have a specific option thats breaking the game like Viver?

 

You need more to defend this argument

 

Limitations as in those things that keep gameplay challenging and engaging and keep the game fair for everyone and every playstyle

 

When one specifically is so much more effective that not using it is literally gimping yourself then theres an issue

 

Freedom of choice is not a defense for this

[Xana_Skullsunder]

It's saltier than a LoL post-match lobby in here

 

For that alone, you have my +1.

 

To be more on topic, I am so damned tired of watching other people spam ults and turn my video game into an action movie where I'm one of the extras.

[AlphaHorseman]

Removing freedom to choose as in forcing them not to have a specific option thats breaking the game like Viver?

 

You need more to defend this argument

 

Limitations as in those things that keep gameplay challenging and engaging and keep the game fair for everyone and every playstyle

 

When one specifically is so much more effective that not using it is literally gimping yourself then theres an issue

 

Freedom of choice is not a defense for this

People went that route because of the massive amount of rep and repetition required to rank up with syndicates in the game, before the change. I'm not saying people haven't just used one way to play before, but you are right when you say that Viver brought this annoyance of endless farming for one thing using a single strategy.

 

No one is telling people how they need to play, as game play styles will be more effective in some situations rather than others. That's the nature of it, we get the choice to choose how to do so, even though one may be more effective, we can choose to not go that route and do it our own way. It may take longer, but it still can be done. With the massive rep things though...ugh, I can understand why people got fed up with it. But DE found a solution through upping the rep gains. Thus, it did not invalidate anyone's play style, and even before, though it would've taken a lot longer, people could still play as they wished, as the syndicates are optional, and not mandatory.

 

I think those limitations are already occuring, we have Eximus units that debuff us and buff their allies, Infested Healers that debuff AoE damage, new Infested units that can obscure our vision and keep us slowed in their puddles of goo, and the newest addition, Nullifiers to both the Void and the Corpus. DE is providing a way for players to use their guns and powers in tandem, but not completely negating one or the other. I would hope that they make the Nullifier shields also factor in crit damage, to help with crit builds like the bows do, or allow the Nullifiers to only block powers, but allow projectiles to come through.

[7grims]

No clue why... DE doesn't listen to its player base much at this point in time.

 

 

ho oh 

 

Someone just splattered the absolute truth all over this post!

 

Sad but true, this game is no longer community driven, not since it got mainstream.

[Azawarau]

People went that route because of the massive amount of rep and repetition required to rank up with syndicates in the game, before the change. I'm not saying people haven't just used one way to play before, but you are right when you say that Viver brought this annoyance of endless farming for one thing using a single strategy.

 

No one is telling people how they need to play, as game play styles will be more effective in some situations rather than others. That's the nature of it, we get the choice to choose how to do so, even though one may be more effective, we can choose to not go that route and do it our own way. It may take longer, but it still can be done. With the massive rep things though...ugh, I can understand why people got fed up with it. But DE found a solution through upping the rep gains. Thus, it did not invalidate anyone's play style, and even before, though it would've taken a lot longer, people could still play as they wished, as the syndicates are optional, and not mandatory.

 

I think those limitations are already occuring, we have Eximus units that debuff us and buff their allies, Infested Healers that debuff AoE damage, new Infested units that can obscure our vision and keep us slowed in their puddles of goo, and the newest addition, Nullifiers to both the Void and the Corpus. DE is providing a way for players to use their guns and powers in tandem, but not completely negating one or the other. I would hope that they make the Nullifier shields also factor in crit damage, to help with crit builds like the bows do, or allow the Nullifiers to only block powers, but allow projectiles to come through.

Im just gonna throw this one out there

 

You keep saying im telling people how they need to play or forcing them to do whatever

 

Im speaking of one specific issue that uses energy loopholes to abuse game mechanics for EXP far beyond anything else

 

Now your arguent is i want to force something onto you

 

Have you not once considered that im not forcing anything but instead tackling a game issue?

 

Quick to make it as negative as possible like anyone else

 

You have 100000001 options but you defend this one specifically by saying im forcing something onto you why?

 

Not to mention there is little talk of whether what im saying is justified or has any reason

 

Alot of the response is just "dont force me to-"

 

So why not look at a different angle or at least address the core of what im getting too rather than running around a pointless circle?

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

I'm actually suggesting a system to get newer players to use abilities a bit more often by trying to encourage usage of the first 3 by making them interfere less with the fourth.

 

I'd love to use a poison blade with my Saryn, but the current system demands that I save up 75 energy when with 25 more I could use one of my most powerful abilities.

 

I'm trying to see if there's a way to develop a system that keeps ability use throughout a level without removing gunplay, which is what my last point about the current flaw to this suggested system is about

 

Saryn's 3 straight up needs a buff.  It always has too.  To be in line with current frames it REALLY should be a longer duration, AND a bigger buff, probably something like 200% to be completely honest (especially since it only scales off of the modified base of the weapon, unlike most other damage amp abilities that scale with the full value, including elemental, and is self-only for Saryn  It really deserves to be much, much stronger than it is).  The closest thing Saryn has to a defense to allow her to melee is Moult, which doesn't last long at all when you start hitting the tough enemies (60 minutes into T4S?  It's going to go down in 0.1 seconds every single time)  The regen mod for Moult is great, but it suffers from the same problem, namely that it really doesn't scale very far.  IF you could get, say, an augment that let the Moult be invulnerable for 5 seconds?  That would be fantastic.

 

As for the cooldowns, how about if you could free-cast any of the first three abilites at will (with some exceptions) but they went on a cooldown until you could free-cast them again if you didn't want to spend energy on them?  This would absolutely push players to use other powers (while simultaneously lowering some of the "nintendo hard and beyond" difficulty for new, poorly-geared players).

 

The only downside to this type of free-cast cooldown would be that abilities wouldn't feel nearly as awesome in the early game when you don't have that power efficiency.  The upside would be that max power strength builds would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to wait on CDs to cast expensive 1-3 abilities for free, and would set up heavily around dropping those big bombs when the cooldowns are up.  That would be the best of both worlds, allowing players to choose to go with cooldowns to build max power with no efficiency (and virtually no 4 use at all) or mostly ignore them, but with lower power.

 

Edit:  You could even give some abilities a cast-charge system where they could queue up 2-3 free casts over time if you waited long enough.  I know for sure that fast-cheap pure damage 1 abilities such as Ember's Fireball, Ash's Shuriken, and several others would really be useful with this.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Vitalis_Inamorta

[SageBanshee]

Right now, this is a very hot topic, and we are not the only ones debating it.  There is a particularly good post about it that I will link this page to.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/379091-press-4-to-win/

 

They make some very good points and consider a wider scope in comparison to what we are debating.  I suggest, for those who have not already, that posters here should read at least the first page of their posts.

[AlphaHorseman]

Im just gonna throw this one out there

 

You keep saying im telling people how they need to play or forcing them to do whatever

 

Im speaking of one specific issue that uses energy loopholes to abuse game mechanics for EXP far beyond anything else

 

Now your arguent is i want to force something onto you

 

Have you not once considered that im not forcing anything but instead tackling a game issue?

 

Quick to make it as negative as possible like anyone else

 

You have 100000001 options but you defend this one specifically by saying im forcing something onto you why?

 

Not to mention there is little talk of whether what im saying is justified or has any reason

 

Alot of the response is just "dont force me to-"

 

So why not look at a different angle or at least address the core of what im getting too rather than running around a pointless circle?

What's the issue? 

 

Efficiency with powers? Is that it? You can build for it, doesn't mean that everyone does.

 

Please, tell me what the core is of whatever it is you're saying, because I don't think I'm getting it.

[Azawarau]

What's the issue? 

 

Efficiency with powers? Is that it? You can build for it, doesn't mean that everyone does.

 

Please, tell me what the core is of whatever it is you're saying, because I don't think I'm getting it.

Its not hard to understand

 

Energy loopholes lead to people spamming powers to trivialize enemies

 

Its also far more effective than any method used to kill enemies and effectively trivializes them

 

Enemies get buffed to balance it out

 

Players who dont use that strategy get extra weight thrown on them for not using 4 spam

 

Example :Nullifiers

 

Valkyr cant 4 spam to kill everything in a room but she gets hit harder than most frames by nullifiers

 

Ember cant 4 spam to clear a room but nullifiers hurt 3/4 of her powers

 

Nekros cant 4 spam to win but he also gets hurt more than even valkyr by nullifiers with his 4

 

Could have been fixed by adding power and soft LoS to a ew abilities instead of literally having to place a light punishment on some frames and a heavy one on others (Usually those who werent the issue)

 

Now im forced to deal with a solution to an issue i wasnt part of because a few frames were abusing a game mechanic

 

Thats just a personal thing for me though.

 

A bit more serious

 

4 spam is taking away from the fast paced play of the game entirely

 

You cannot defend staying in the same spot hitting 4 for 30 minutes and calling the game fast paced

 

Youre also forcing players to stand around for that long or go be solo hallway heroes because standing near th excali means youre doing nothing

 

My officer sat in 30 minutes of a Tiered survival while an excali hit 4 in the same spot and the idiot forgot to take a screenshot of the guy saying at the start that they wont have to do anything for 30 minutes

 

Is this challenging or engaging? Not at all.

 

How about the opposite side

 

Lets take a look at them and what they6 have to gain

 

-Leveling weapons in extremely little time

 

-Burning through mastery

 

-Burning through syndicate

 

And for the people who would rather have this placed in check?

 

-A balanced game to play?

 

Im not sure why almost noone acknowledges the obvious here and treat people like me as if something wrong was said

 

I do hear alot of personal opinion rather than actual factual statements and half thought defenses by half thought forumers who think theyre on a roll when theyre in a sinking ship

 

Theres also the grand assumption that the game wont be "fun" if the energy loopholes and EXP abuse is removed which makes no sense

 

If you have to abuse game mechanics that even a dev called broken to have fun then theres something very wrong and obviously biased with your point of view

 

TL;DR

 

Powers are too efficient and are breaking the game

 

Id type alot more thats on mind but ive gotten lazy

 

TL;DR

[Temmron]

Mirages 1 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Novas 2 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Mesas 2 and 3 have nothing to do with whether or not her 4 is a press 4 to win power

 

Youve ironically defined an invalid argument

 

And then you jump on the assumption that i spam defenses all day with bad players with nothing to back it up

 

Trash talk isnt getting you anywhere

 

Novas 4 reduces enemy damage output to 25% alone. Their ability to react to anything is reduced to near nothing as well

 

Mirage can effectively kill kill and CC enemies on a ridiculous range (only with overextended build ) on top of having a high ability to avoid being hit (only with 1 and 3 skills)

 

Mesa can use her 4 AND 3 AND 2 to play the game for her and destroy enemies easily with minimal player input

 

When she is doing that shes face tanking enemies

so basically your argument is that every damaging 4 power is bad because you can kill enemies with it?

so what about mag? would her shield polarize be press 2 to win and that is a problem too?

 

Well I thought your issue was that people only spam the 4 key and dont utilize other skills or their weapons which is

1. simply not true most of the time

2. Only a thing in low level content

3. Not very efficient 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Seyenas

[Temmron]

4 spam is taking away from the fast paced play of the game entirely

 

You cannot defend staying in the same spot hitting 4 for 30 minutes and calling the game fast paced

 

Youre also forcing players to stand around for that long or go be solo hallway heroes because standing near th excali means youre doing nothing

 

My officer sat in 30 minutes of a Tiered survival while an excali hit 4 in the same spot and the idiot forgot to take a screenshot of the guy saying at the start that they wont have to do anything for 30 minutes

 

Is this challenging or engaging? Not at all.

 

How about the opposite side

 

Lets take a look at them and what they6 have to gain

 

-Leveling weapons in extremely little time

 

-Burning through mastery

 

-Burning through syndicate

 

And for the people who would rather have this placed in check?

 

-A balanced game to play?

 

Im not sure why almost noone acknowledges the obvious here and treat people like me as if something wrong was said

 

I do hear alot of personal opinion rather than actual factual statements and half thought defenses by half thought forumers who think theyre on a roll when theyre in a sinking ship

 

Theres also the grand assumption that the game wont be "fun" if the energy loopholes and EXP abuse is removed which makes no sense

 

If you have to abuse game mechanics that even a dev called broken to have fun then theres something very wrong and obviously biased with your point of view

 

TL;DR

 

Powers are too efficient and are breaking the game -> enemies arent efficient enough  and if that is what you said I would agree

 

Id type alot more thats on mind but ive gotten lazy

 

TL;DR

Well let that excali in to 2 hour T4 survival and you see what happens to his 4 :D + the excal needs a lot of energy pads or a trin if he doesnt want to move from his spot and still spam 4 or he dies since he doesnt want to move -> like I said very inefficient to need to take up a party spot or spend alot of resources on energy pads

Well defense is defense you know :D you need to defend something thats normally immobile, which means you wont run around much r?

 

Im sorry but the real fun of the game happens when you play an endless type mission (mostly survival since that is the best game mode lets be honest) a little longer than 1 hour :D

Edited January 13, 2015 by Seyenas