Bring Back Iron Skin Face Tanking

[anercan]

You aren't good with Valkyr, don't you?

Ripline is useful travel power, Warcry (with high Power Strength and Armor) will turn her into almost invunerable and unstoppable melee machine, Paralyze useful for melee stunning, and Hysteria... yeah.

 

Valkyr is strong melee frame, when she is modded right and have Life Strike.

I have her built as a "always in hyststeria" mode kinda thing, So the energy cost for everything is high. Yeah ripline is a good at getting around but I find have rush on her to be better, I still use it to get to higher places, I have never thought paralyze to be good though either just punch them or knock them down with a ground slam, warcry, I do use more but only if i have the energy and for the speed buff

[UnknownGunneryChief]

Other frames can.  Very easily.  Just not Rhino.

 

Which is a complete violation of his codex entry.  "Heavy" in military terms means "Armored to the teeth and virtually impossible to destroy", but his base armor is lower than Valkyr, and he's easier to destroy than at least four other frames.

Yeah, heavy weaponry in the current day army sure is just the regular M4A1 just armored to the teeth and virtually impossible to destroy.

 

PLEASE, FOR GODS SAKE, AT LEAST GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. I'm just unsubbing this topic since it's crowding up my new posts section. Literally like spam in emails.

[Rorgal_Sina]

You keep saying that as if you know what endgame is meant to be.

[sanj66]

And you know what is funny ?

Rhino 2nd IS iteration gave him 85% DR on IS.

 

With no drawbacks (IE no wonky light / shadow mechanics, no weak sauce weakness like weak against splash or melee or whatever) it was like Link but better.

 

But Rhino players whined so hard that DE dropped that concept and gave him fixed HP for his IS.

In fact this was the doing of YOU Rhino players.

 

So yes, you guys now asking for a %DR buff now is hilarious.

Blame it on yourselves last time people. Lawl.

and you know for sure it is these very same players? also i could have even been players who found that iteration op and called for static non scaling as a form of nerfing, ever thought of that?

[Azawarau]

Nerf the stupid stuff the other frames have; Rhino is fine and better than he's ever been with Iron Shrapnel in the mix.

This is basically it

 

Things will get out of hand and well have to have enemies,weapons,frames buffed heavily to catch up VS changing a few aspects of trinity,Mirage, and Mesa

 

Face tanking is lots of fun.  It may not be fun to you, but why deny face tanking to those who like it?

 

Currently, Rhino is not even in the top 5 most tanky frames.  This is pretty terrible, since he was THE original tank frame of choice.  Between nerfed tank powers and the introduction of superior damage reduction abilities among many other frames, Rhino hasn't been a tank for a year and a half now... people just don't seem to realize this at first, since iron skin is good for low level content and they often don't try the really tanky frames since they're satisfied with Rhino.

 

But if you actually look at all the abilities of all the other frames... Rhino has no place right now.  Everything he can do, other frames can do much better, for less energy.  For those people who want to return to playing Rhino, an improvement to iron skin is in order, to make it work with high level content and go back towards the top of the 5 most tanky frames (doesn't even have to be number one... it can be number two behind Valkyr for all I care).

 

As far as nerfing Mirage's invulnerability... you'd also have to nerf Mesa, Trinity, Valkyr, and Loki.  Or just buff iron skin to be a more tanky ability than eclipse.  Which one is easier?  Probably the buff to iron skin.

Hes Actually fourth but thats not a problem with rhino

 

If you want to face tank then face tank build your rhino

 

If you want to buff him because new frames are overpowered then you just want to buff things till nothing matters anymore

 

Its an easy read here

 

and you know for sure it is these very same players? also i could have even been players who found that iteration op and called for static non scaling as a form of nerfing, ever thought of that?

Does that matter?

 

Rhino players in general made a mistake

[Azawarau]

Void defense don't really need to tank, since the enemies attack the bubble. But other void missions have plenty of shade... a couple particular rooms have shade around all the edges, and it's a good spot to camp out for survival and stuff because you can simply run along the edges and tank everything thrown at you.

 

The fact that she can easily out-tank the tanks makes her a tank.  That's just simple logic.  Unless the tank frames have abilities that work all the time reliably and aren't depleted in one hit, they're not tanks.  So the closest things to tanks are frames like Trinity and Mirage.

Whether you need to or not doesnt change that its limiting

 

Situational DR isnt reliable enough to tank with

[Icebreccer]

No, no, NO. HELL NO! Why the hell would you make the Primes to have significant advantage over their normal version? That's just utter crap and I don't want that in the game.

 

Primes should stay as "different cosmetic" for the same frame. They have small buffs already, and I don't really like that. Cosmetic + polarity change and the void buffs are already enough.

[Holeypaladin]

Because primes are much, much more difficult to obtain than the original versions.

 

Effort to reward ratio, basically.

[Edgedemon]

didn't rhino had its armor which should give him like 75% damage reduction already?

also loki prime is easier than loki unless you get a taxi

[Holeypaladin]

No, Rhino's base armor is nowhere near a 75% damage reduction.  Valkyr's base armor (four times that of Rhino) is a 67% damage reduction, and with a maxed steel fiber it goes up to 81%.  Rhino, however, only has a base 39% damage reduction from armor, which is barely even noticeable, and it only goes up to 57% with steel fiber... which is insufficient compared to any damage reduction power on any other frame in the game that has a damage reduction power.

 

Especially when you consider damage reduction powers like link, blessing, eclipse, etc. also affect damage inflicted to shields, while armor does not.  Shields have a 0% damage reduction without using tank powers like the female warframes have but Rhino lacks.

 

Essentially the current iron skin is good for the lower half of the star chart... but since Rhino is made obsolete by the existence of Rhino Prime anyway, Rhino Prime can take over the high level tanking from the point where Rhino's iron skin becomes less useful.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Edgedemon]

No, Rhino's base armor is nowhere near a 75% damage reduction.  Valkyr's base armor (four times that of Rhino) is a 67% damage reduction, and with a maxed steel fiber it goes up to 81%.  Rhino, however, only has a base 39% damage reduction from armor, which is barely even noticeable, and it only goes up to 57% with steel fiber... which is insufficient compared to any damage reduction power on any other frame in the game that has a damage reduction power.

39% barely noticeable?  from 100 to 61 from 1000 to 610, with steel fiber 1000 to 430... i would usually stop reading there.

 

but

 

Essentially the current iron skin is good for the lower half of the star chart... but since Rhino is made obsolete by the existence of Rhino Prime anyway, Rhino Prime can take over the high level tanking from the point where Rhino's iron skin becomes less useful.

i don't think you understand the reasoning behind the Prime frames.

 

btw rhino prime already got the huge advantage of speed over rhino.

[Taranis49]

1: i hope you do relize that rhino has not has his Codex updated since he was released, which was like 2 years ago.

 

2: have you tryed any of rhino's other abilitys?

 

3: Rhino has more then 2x default armour then Mesa with Mesa being at 65 (i think) and like 10x more armour then Mirarge (at 15) just think about that for a second

 

4: Please don't make the "Prime should be better then the default ones" because it would make the game too un-fair for those who have already max build their normal Rhino and choose not to move over.

 

5: are you asking for this change becasue rhino is to useless right now in game game becasue his one and only skill "iron skin" dose not make him god like after level 30+ and should make him God like till leve 100++

 

1.) False. Rhi Pri's codex is pretty much the most recently re-written one. It still pegs him as the "tank" frame.

 

2.) Which bypasses the point as I discussed in the last thread, yeah, the frame's usable (I've taken mine to an hour in T4 survivals) - but not in the role it was designed for. Hint, the original versions of the old post-nerf IS drew enemy aggro.

 

3.) As noted, armor's not particularly relevant. It doesn't apply to IS or shields - it only applies to health damage, only frame with enough armor to make that stategy viable by the later planets is Valkyr.

 

I said it before, I don't agree with the OP on much, but he's not wrong that Rhino was meant to be the tank-frame. #1 reason cited for the removal of stuff like Overheat with its 95% DR way back? Didn't fit the theme, Ember shouldn't be a better tank than Rhino. Reworking one-lackluster skill so it has lategame viability is a better, easier more logical option than nerfing multiple frames.

[Icebreccer]

Because primes are much, much more difficult to obtain than the original versions.

 

Effort to reward ratio, basically.

 

Yeah, because buying a Rhino Prime from the trading costs you like 40p compared to the original 375p.

 

Simply no.

[Beetamus]

How did Rhino players make a mistake? And should current Rhino (or any frame really) players have to put up with things so far in the past. The game is evolving constantly. They took % damage reduction out of the game, also nerfing Ember, then brought it back much later with other frames. As a general rule they should be fixing the old frames up to where the new ones are, or, nerfing the new frames back to the level of the old ones.

 

Personally I would be fine with no % damage reduction it the game, but then the scaling is an issue between what newer and more experienced players want to do.

[DeadlyBard676]

once again people asking for rhino to be a facetank when he is actually a support tank.

[Holeypaladin]

Rhino was always intended to be a facetank rather than a support tank.

 

It's just iron skin no longer allows him to be a facetank at higher level missions, because enemies are much stronger and deal much more damage than they used to.

 

He doesn't work as a support tank anymore either, since he can't tank at all.  He's just pure support since all he really contributes is roar and stomp.

 

Personally, if I wanted to play a pure support role, I'd go Trinity.  Rhino is supposed to be a front-liner rather than a support bot.  He even has a helmet called "vanguard" which means "front line" in military terminology.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Azawarau]

 

1.) False. Rhi Pri's codex is pretty much the most recently re-written one. It still pegs him as the "tank" frame.

 

2.) Which bypasses the point as I discussed in the last thread, yeah, the frame's usable (I've taken mine to an hour in T4 survivals) - but not in the role it was designed for. Hint, the original versions of the old post-nerf IS drew enemy aggro.

 

3.) As noted, armor's not particularly relevant. It doesn't apply to IS or shields - it only applies to health damage, only frame with enough armor to make that stategy viable by the later planets is Valkyr.

 

I said it before, I don't agree with the OP on much, but he's not wrong that Rhino was meant to be the tank-frame. #1 reason cited for the removal of stuff like Overheat with its 95% DR way back? Didn't fit the theme, Ember shouldn't be a better tank than Rhino. Reworking one-lackluster skill so it has lategame viability is a better, easier more logical option than nerfing multiple frames.

The "tank"?

 

Hes more a tank than any frame in game isnt he? You have to admit at least that he IS a tank <See what i did there?

[Ronyn]

 His skill doesnt reduce damage, it mitigrates is completely until a certain number is reached. It has no duration, meaning minimal power duration doesnt hurt him at all, not even his ult. 

Hold on..I keep seeing people say this but it snot quite right.

Minimum power duration destroys the range on charge completely...making useless in every sense of the word.

and means you have to roar over and over to keep the effect going.

[Azawarau]

Rhino was always intended to be a facetank rather than a support tank.

 

It's just iron skin no longer allows him to be a facetank at higher level missions, because enemies are much stronger and deal much more damage than they used to.

 

He doesn't work as a support tank anymore either, since he can't tank at all.  He's just pure support since all he really contributes is roar and stomp.

 

Personally, if I wanted to play a pure support role, I'd go Trinity.  Rhino is supposed to be a front-liner rather than a support bot.  He even has a helmet called "vanguard" which means "front line" in military terminology.

Didnt he have a stun and an aggro grabbing iron skin back in the day?

 

Sounds supporting to me

 

All he contributes is roar and stomp. That WOULD be a good point if those two skills didnt make half his skillset.

 

So now you admit half of his ability is set to support. He has iron skin for self tanking and then Charge for mobility

 

Is there a problem with his support? Nope. you just admitted its half of what he has

 

So your issue is iron skin specifically since it cant face tank. Keeping in mind that the few face tanks that we do have have to have ways to heal constantly or stunlock to actually face tank

 

Rhino has stomp for stun and can life strike for health though its not always the est option when considering he needs energy for iron skin

[Holeypaladin]

Yes, iron skin is the skill that used to make Rhino the best tank.  Now it makes him the worst of the tanks.  It needs to return to making him the best tank.

[Holeypaladin]

The "tank"?

 

Hes more a tank than any frame in game isnt he? You have to admit at least that he IS a tank <See what i did there?

Nope, he's not more a tank than all the other frames.  He's actually got a weaker tank power than at least 5 other frames, making him the worst of the tank options in the game at high level.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Azawarau]

Hold on..I keep seeing people say this but it snot quite right.

Minimum power duration destroys the range on charge completely...making useless in every sense of the word.

and means you have to roar over and over to keep the effect going.

To be fair

 

Of all his powers charge has the least use arguably

 

Its not a terrible loss

 

 

 

Nope, he's not more a tank than all the other frames.  He's actually got a weaker tank power than at least 5 other frames, making him the worst of the tank options in the game at high level.

Im just going to assume youre right

 

Lets seeeee

 

Loki

 

Hydroid

 

Ember

 

Nyx

 

Banshee

 

Excalibro

 

Vauban

 

Nekros

 

Volt

 

Ash

 

Oberon

 

Worst tank options in the game my left hind paw

Edited January 13, 2015 by Azawarau

[Holeypaladin]

Roar is a different story... since he's useless as a tank now, damage support from roar is his ONLY function right now.

[Azawarau]

Yes, iron skin is the skill that used to make Rhino the best tank.  Now it makes him the worst of the tanks.  It needs to return to making him the best tank.

Hes not one of the worst tanks

 

Other frames are overpowered and hes tankier than most of the warframes

[Holeypaladin]

Yes, of all the warframes with tanky abilities, Rhino is the worst.  That makes him the worst tank.  The others aren't tanks at all, nor are they intended to be, but if you consider all of the damage reduction abilities in the game.... iron skin is the absolute worst at high levels.