Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)

[iuki.]

You fit mods to make a gun stronger (and to follow builds which are effective, ergo make them stronger in that way.), how you chose to forma your weapon is up to you, and there is no guarantee that how you want to make your gun/frame will always be viable and always be effective. Nobody ever said it would. If the way you style a gun/frame stops working for whatever reason, you've gotta go with the times and roll with the punches. Nobody promised everything would work all of the time, after all. Besides, forma'ing thing is pathetically easy these days. You can put 3 forma on a gun/frame in just as many days, even less if you have a stockpile of forma built up. I forma'd my braton prime 3 times in half a day.

 

So basically if you pay RL money and or spend lots of time grinding then they do sweeping changes like this or the ones in the past; there should be zero compensation b/c it 'sucks to be you'. Did I get that right?

Edited January 18, 2015 by fizbit

[MaverickZero]

+1

 

I'm surprised some CB players are against this. We had unlimited power at one point and it lost its fun shortly after. Big changes after big changes happened so we had no problem with it. Enemy scaling was changed a ton of times. And make no mistake we had $$ on the game throughout the whole thing. Most of the excuses I read are really selfish and irrational.

[swihart91]

Just watching the forums people have been begging for mod slots and now that de has mentioned removing seration everyone has jumped down their throats for it. Weapon progression will still make the weapon as powerful as it was fpr everyone arguing the game is to easy with. I honestly just see this as everyone wanting that additional slot to make their builds that much stronger which actually defeats the purpose of this whole argument anyways. Maybe there is is something I'm missing? If so please explain and also leave your thoughts below.

Edit: i guess I just personally see the game as being to easy already and doing this with seration will only make the game easier which isnt fun, so if this happen I'm going to need to run a 2 hour survival for a challenge and I dont want that I would rather take better and more difficult game play over a mod slot personally

Edited January 18, 2015 by swihart91

[MaverickZero]

Some other changes will come with that as well. Most are hoping for Damage 3.0 of sorts and new enemy scaling.

[Azjhoolies]

So basically if you pay RL money and or spend lots of time grinding then they do sweeping changes like this or the ones in the past; there should be zero compensation b/c it 'sucks to be you'. Did I get that right?

Um, no, you couldn't be more wrong. Forma is easy to make, and you can max out a weapon in about a half hour. I haven't spent any money on warframe except the hunter pack way back when. 

 

I had to change my trinity when she got revamped. Do you see me complaining and slinging mud at a total stranger? Stop being so accusatory and defensive, it's unpleasant and unbefitting of a civil person. When this stuff happens I just carry on, play the game, and get back to where I once was. Right now you're being rude to me for nothing. You're not special, I'm not special. Nobody promised you or me anything.

 

Would you like me to show you what to do? You could benefit from this knowledge and I'm more than happy to help anybody who wants it.

[rechot]

I agree. I HATE THE VERY IDEA OF REMOVING SERRATION. EVEN IF I GET MORE POWA. I WORKED FOR THAT MOD FOR TOO LONG.

[Cynaris]

*People just want Serration gone for legendary cores

 

fixed

[Mcl_Blue]

*People just want Serration gone for legendary cores

 

fixed

Why not both?

[MaverickZero]

I agree. I HATE THE VERY IDEA OF REMOVING SERRATION. EVEN IF I GET MORE POWA. I WORKED FOR THAT MOD FOR TOO LONG.

But if it is removed you will not need it because your enemies will decrease in power too (or you get the serration effect innately). You shouldn't have this kind of attachment to a mod just because you spent days grinding it. It's unhealthy.

Edited January 18, 2015 by MaverickZero

[egregiousRac]

The issue with base damage mods (and to a lesser extent multishot) is that they are literally the best mods no matter what. No other type of mod has the distinction of being the most worthwhile mod in any circumstance on any item. You are pretty much just losing a mod slot because you slot that mod into everything.

[havikryan]

it would make sense to have innate serration, if you exclude mods your weapon deals the same amount of damage at lvl 0 and 30, that doesn't make sense progression wise

[MaverickZero]

Some other changes will come with that as well. Most are hoping for Damage 3.0 of sorts and new enemy scaling.

I personally would like a revamped damage system where nothing adds damage. No pure mods adding damage. No elemental mods adding damage.

 

IPS damage is almost irrelevant because of elemental mods adding damage based on total damage. Pure damage mods are mandatory because you need them in the current enemy scaling system or else you're gonna have a hard time.

 

Basically, it goes down to every weapon relying on its base stats. This way we won't have an inflated enemy scaling where their EHP is in the thousands so we can balance things easier. Starting off with the starchart and ending with a tiered system for weapons that has both vertical and horizontal progression.

[Hopakkiin]

Yea. I don't like serration.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

...yes that's the point, people don't want mod slots taken up by mandatory mods like serration.  Doing so would help to diversify builds.

[Cryhunter059]

*People just want Serration gone for legendary cores

 

fixed

Guess it's time to rank up a whole bunch of my extra serrations

[Rakshal]

Yeah, that is kinda the point, to add more diversity to modding rather that just putting on mods that are essential. :/

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Greedy milk™

[Lunamaniac]

...yes that's the point, people don't want mod slots taken up by mandatory mods like serration.  Doing so would help to diversify builds.

 

Yeah, that is kinda the point, to add more diversity to modding rather that just putting on mods that are essential. :/

 

Yes... that IS the point.

[Chaosyn]

There is no right answer.

Removing it just makes some other mod mandatory.

Keeping it doesn't fix how weak we become after a certain point in some missions.

 

Personally, I say add innate serration (or whichever mod is appropriate to the weapon) and whoever has the mods gets to keep them.

That way we get the damage our guns SHOULD do,and a nice bonus damage mod for really high level stuff.

Then it becomes player CHOICE as to what kind of build you want your weapon to have.

Doing low level content? You have an extra slot for status or whatever...extra damage wouldn't be necessary.

Doing content over 30-40? You can have extra damage so that those mobs at least FEEL the shots you take at them...and you don't have to rely on status procs almost exclusively...

[Thrymm]

if you look, i posted on the biggest flaw in his post. without that scaling, we will have 12 mercurys, and there will be virtually no difference between T1 and T4 missions.

That simply isn't true.

 

Enemies scale in two directions--their survivability and their damage output.  In addition to this, as we progress we see more dangerous enemies more often.

 

A damage output change on our end, where it to happen, need not have any effect on enemy damage output or effects.  It would, however, necessitate a change to their HP pool/survival scalability in whatever direction that may need to go. 

 

It's been pointed out plenty of times that many feel that the current scaling of this is wonky anyway---enemies go from one shots to sponges in more or less one leap, and once they hit that armor/hp tipping point we're playing a decidedly different game--many people will sit in an endless mission for an hour to get there, in fact, and this area of the game is where the greatest imbalances are really seen.

 

 I FEEL THE THAT the people who want the removal of serration arnt doing it cause its "OP". I think they are doing it cause they dont want to work for it.

......Do you really need a screenshot of my Serration mod?  It's maxed, I promise.

 

Now that said, I'm somewhat on the fence.  I see a tremendous benefit to not having these "mandatory" mods(please don't split hairs folks, I know you can physically choose to not equip them and complete a mission, but you know what I mean when I state that)  I see a real possibility for more or better choices without them.

 

But I'm also seeing it being sold awfully hard as a cure-all, and it's not.  No matter what mod changes happen, that new frisbee thrower with the yo-yo secondary that we got this week will always suck compared to the assault rifles.  With its mechanics, it needs absurd numbers PRE MOD before it could ever consider competing(reference pre and post buff Kohm for an illustration)  Sniper rifles will continue to be extremely niche because the game is  a vs. horde style thing and they are a single target precision weapon, short of a mod that gives them triple clips and multi-target capability, mods aren't going to be their fix.  Mods aren't the thing that will bring this sort of stuff into a state of "viability", no matter which direction anything goes--a real numbers balance pass is what's needed for this.

 

Which does make something in the original post extremely solid----clear, delineated tiers.  Now, we may want ALL weapons to have a level of parity, or we may not.  But if a genuine, delineated tier system existed, we could forever stop trying to figure out why the heck we just can't seem to get weapon X buffed to compete with weapon Y----maybe it was never supposed to.

 

And we need to know this, and need to know it badly for every weapon so that we can set some level of expectations for them.  When the Yo-Yo saw came out, is it a tier 1 weapon, capable of easily keeping up with our Braton?  If so, it'd be nice to know that so we aren't grousing about it not even remotely touching our Amprex or Boltor Prime quality weapons.  Similarly, if say, the Supra got put in the same tier as the Boltor Prime, we could feel confident when we assert that it's behind the curve.  If it isn't, we can let it go and understand that it wasn't meant to attain that level of performance anyway.

[MaverickZero]

There is no right answer.

Removing it just makes some other mod mandatory.

Keeping it doesn't fix how weak we become after a certain point in some missions.

 

Personally, I say add innate serration (or whichever mod is appropriate to the weapon) and whoever has the mods gets to keep them.

That way we get the damage our guns SHOULD do,and a nice bonus damage mod for really high level stuff.

Then it becomes player CHOICE as to what kind of build you want your weapon to have.

Doing low level content? You have an extra slot for status or whatever...extra damage wouldn't be necessary.

Doing content over 30-40? You can have extra damage so that those mobs at least FEEL the shots you take at them...and you don't have to rely on status procs almost exclusively...

WTH are you thinking? Haven't we had enough of this bad idea with arcane helmets?

[Hypernaut1]

Keep the long term progression with serration. We are not losing a mod slot, im sure serration was taken into consideration when deciding how many slots to put on weapons.

[Chaosyn]

WTH are you thinking? Haven't we had enough of this bad idea with arcane helmets?

Hmm what am I thinking? I'm thinking that removing serration would make my rank 30 Braton Vandal ONLY as strong as it is right now WITH serration in it.

So when I go to a T4whatever I'm still doing almost no real damage to anything over a certain level...

Let me keep my Serration and suddenly all that content that one shots me and sucks up HUNDREDS of bullets if not thousands,becomes readily killable,and allows me to progress to killing harder enemies. It's not like there wouldn't end up being a point where even having serration as bonus damage becomes pointless (enemies can scale infinitely thus even without serration the bullet sponges will come. Letting me keep Serration makes them come later rather than sooner)

[Alphafox]

Hmm what am I thinking? I'm thinking that removing serration would make my rank 30 Braton Vandal ONLY as strong as it is right now WITH serration in it.

So when I go to a T4whatever I'm still doing almost no real damage to anything over a certain level...

Let me keep my Serration and suddenly all that content that one shots me and sucks up HUNDREDS of bullets if not thousands,becomes readily killable,and allows me to progress to killing harder enemies. It's not like there wouldn't end up being a point where even having serration as bonus damage becomes pointless (enemies can scale infinitely thus even without serration the bullet sponges will come. Letting me keep Serration makes them come later rather than sooner)

Do you really believe that DE would remove Serration w/o any other alternative? 

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Did this amount if obvious really require a thread?

Seriously.

Meanwhile...on Twitter:

Sup homies, guess what. The sky iz blu.

#mindblown