Ember Changes [Post 15.11.0 Megathread]

[traybong111]

Youre forgetting weapon damage there

 

I still can't decide between going with the popular corrosive/viral or have a fire Dread (guaranteed to oneshot Phorid at least) and corrosive on high-status secondary like Stug, so that leaves my melee slot always modded with fire. And to be frank I've always found melee in Warframe to be a bit...wonky. With the speed and stamina buff, though, I should really give that fire Orthos Prime a shot at being my main. 

[Xtenz]

I still can't decide between going with the popular corrosive/viral or have a fire Dread (guaranteed to oneshot Phorid at least) and corrosive on high-status secondary like Stug, so that leaves my melee slot always modded with fire. And to be frank I've always found melee in Warframe to be a bit...wonky. With the speed and stamina buff, though, I should really give that fire Orthos Prime a shot at being my main. 

 

Using fire on primary weapons with ember Especially if you have  80% + power strength is really nice i 100% recommend it  .

 

Your secondary  depends on what you need so it's at your will .

 

For melee try the tipedo , it does give her massive agility and decent damage , i found that weapon to be the perfect fit for ember.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Xtenz

[traybong111]

Using fire on primary weapons with ember Especially if you have  80% + power strength is really nice i 100% recommend it  .

 

Your secondary  depends on what you need so it's at your will .

 

For melee try the tipedo , it does give her massive agility and decent damage , i found that weapon to be the perfect fit for ember.

 

Well goshdarnit I shouldn't have sold my Bo :c  Thanks for the advice, though. While I'm waiting for Bo to finish, is there any other melee weapon you'd consider for Accel-spam Ember? 

[SandwitchPrime]

 

I did some testing with and without accelerant and found the damage dealing abilities of ember to deal trivial damage without accelerant. This basically made accelerant necesary for any damage casting.

While this meant it worked, this makes accelerant seem like a bandaid ability really, a ability to buff embers damage to viable levels, rather than just buffing embers damage to viable levels in the first place.

 

EXACTLY! i said the same thing in my first ember post, NO ONE LISTENED! accel is just a result of lazy design!

[RealPandemonium]

Think about it, how can a squishy frame like Nova or Mirage jump into the middle of a crowd and come out alive?

Uh, Nova's mapwide 75% slow and Mirage's numerous forms of damage reduction and prevention are how.  Ember can also do this btw, with Accelerant.  It's just not as easy.

 

 

Using fire on primary weapons with ember Especially if you have  80% + power strength is really nice i 100% recommend it  .

 

Your secondary  depends on what you need so it's at your will .

I've found that it's best to give your secondary the most generally effective damage types because you can't count on enemies having Accelerant on them when you're downed.

Edited January 23, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[SubjectXIII]

I just ran a few T4 survivals and defenses to see what could be done with the current Ember model. The biggest problems I have with Ember are:

 

1. She has to constantly cast 2 or 3 abilities just to get decent usage that other frames only need to cast 1 ability to achieve. Frames like Saryn and Ash only need to press 4 to deal more damage than Ember who needs to press 2 then 3/4. She gets left wide open when standing there, flailing her arms and punching the ground. She's too dependent on Accelerant, it should be an auxiliary not a necessity. She needs to be able to OBLITERATE her foes with Fire Wall and WoF by themselves and use Accelerant when she runs into something big and tanky.

 

2. Heat does crap damage to shields and armor, no matter how much of it you stack you'll still have gunners and bombards laughing at you when their armor and health start getting up there.

 

For both of these I would suggest uping the damage of her abilities, while having Accelerant do something like reduce shields and armor (rename it disintegrate or melt or something) That way the entire team benefits from it instead of just it being the only way Ember can actually deal adequate damage.

 

3. World On Fire needs true toggle. 

 

That is all.

[RealPandemonium]

I just ran a few T4 survivals and defenses to see what could be done with the current Ember model. The biggest problems I have with Ember are:

 

1. She has to constantly cast 2 or 3 abilities just to get decent usage that other frames only need to cast 1 ability to achieve. Frames like Saryn and Ash only need to press 4 to deal more damage than Ember who needs to press 2 then 3/4. She gets left wide open when standing there, flailing her arms and punching the ground. She's too dependent on Accelerant, it should be an auxiliary not a necessity. She needs to be able to OBLITERATE her foes with Fire Wall and WoF by themselves and use Accelerant when she runs into something big and tanky.

 

2. Heat does crap damage to shields and armor, no matter how much of it you stack you'll still have gunners and bombards laughing at you when their armor and health start getting up there.

 

For both of these I would suggest uping the damage of her abilities, while having Accelerant do something like reduce shields and armor (rename it disintegrate or melt or something) That way the entire team benefits from it instead of just it being the only way Ember can actually deal adequate damage.

 

3. World On Fire needs true toggle. 

 

That is all.

1. Ash and Saryn are cancer as far as their 4 design goes.  

 

2. Fire does fine damage to non-proto shields and everything is bad against armor except Corrosive or Radiation (and puncture against Ferrite) depending on the type.  

 

3. Yep, although the current incarnation is ok for low-medium duration WoFs.  

[SubjectXIII]

1. Ash and Saryn are cancer as far as their 4 design goes.  

 

2. Fire does fine damage to non-proto shields and everything is bad against armor except Corrosive or Radiation (and puncture against Ferrite) depending on the type.  

 

3. Yep, although the current incarnation is ok for low-medium duration WoFs.  

 

1. I would say that's more of an effect of the current style of the game. You need extreme CC/Support/Utility/Damage to keep up. And Ember lags behind on all of those. She'll have to adapt to the game the way it is now before we can talk about getting rid of any cancer.

 

2. Yeah, but you really feel the effect of all that damage mitigation when her base damage is so low to begin with.

[Trowicia]

Just drop the duration bit on WoF, there are still far more viable frames than Ember (I'm looking at you, Mesa, Nova, Rhino and Loki).

At this point she can use all the help she can possibly get.

 

Giving her an actual toggle-able WoF will not make her broken, you can clearly see it through the numbers she deal (with absolute max strength). Don't get me wrong, as a long-time Ember player I can definitely feel the love, but it's an odd kind of love pertaining to this weird duration + energy drain idea DE has

Edited January 23, 2015 by Trowicia

[-Eanraig-]

Still pretty useless overall, and having a toggle on her 4 makes no sense when continuity stills affects it, and it's not like it lasts long either, even with a duration build.

[Casval_Rouge]

Just combine Fireball and Accelerant,re-tweak the numbers and give Ember some kind of defensive or regenerative abilities.  The whole glass cannon thing just doesn't work when you refuse to make Ember in line with the top damage Warframes.  If you must not rework her powers again, then give her the power to maintain her WoF, drop the duration.  Yes it seems OP given how easy it would be to mod her, but honestly Ember still got nothing going for her after these updates.  Both Mirage and Nova are vastly better because they put out more damage while offering more utility than Ember.    

[--Q--Guther]

Changes didnt fix wof. Smarter ai targeting doesnt change the fact that, given the insane costs, which stems from the quantity energy drain above 10seconds, and siphon not regerating energy, embers are still punished for wof use.

If you look back, the old ember is much less clunky. Oh there is a pool of enemies ahead. I'll just turn wof on before i go in. Basically i leave wof to do its job on its own for the next 20 seconds. I fire and forget. I instead get to focus on where to parkour next to throw accelerant, fireballs and shoot. Ive left the zone where enemies are and wof is still exploding? So be it! Ive paid for its cast and i let it run its full course, wasted or not!

Now you're forced to toggle it on and off to suit occasions. As if managing 3 other skills for mob cc isnt tiresome enough. You eithet terminate wof early when there are no more creeps or face the consequence of not being able to regen energy passively from siphon.

The high activation cost doesnt even reward, and instead hurt players who dilligently try to toggle to micromanage energy consumption.

[--Q--Guther]

To make matters worse, as few have pointed out, ember starts to deal viable damage that rivals the likes of saryn and ash only when you forcibly revolve your entire weapon build around ember's accelerant.

At what price?

Utility of all of ember's skill and weaponset.

Micromanagement that has only become more cumbersome to manage with the recent ember change.

And what? You still have to wind up between modding a frame between str-range-duration for an ultimate skill 4 that completely fails to punch above its own weight.

Ember got out of the frying pan into the fire.

[TypeSaber]

The ember essentially is currently a poorly made version of many other frames. Its got damage scaling and stuns like a banshee but is much harder to mod for and share that damage with your team. Its actual damage on its World on Fire is laughable compared to the damage you get from a Saryn, Ash or heck even Mirage.

 

The current issue ive been having with my Ember bless her heart. When I use Fire Blast. I push people outside of my World on Fire. #_#~

 

Honestly I dig hard to use frames, I love having to micromanage my abilitys, and combo to get the strongest result. But like.

 

The Ember is a Glass Cannon with no Cannon. For the amount of effort we gotta put in to use the ember. It should be doing far more damage.

 

 

 

This is the quote from the wiki that describes Ember.

"Ember is a fire-based Warframe that relies on almost purely offensive skills. Ember's fire abilities make her very effective against the Infested."

 

Then why is it that WoF's target cap, and FireBlasts lack of any damage makes trying to use a ember for infested a laughable thing.  Her offensive skills are basicly ignored in favor of her CC abilitys so of her description the only thing that's correct is "Fire-based frame"

 

And lets be real she goes down instantly to fire based enemies!! So as a final attempt at reason. Would you make the Ember fire immune already, Frost, Volt and Saryn should all be immune to their elements too. It is frankly ridiculous that the fire frame takes damage from fire, That frosts shields are lowered by the cold and that Volt can be electrified. Its not even like this would break balance. Just give more utility to frames that could use a bit more love, as well as a greater sense of realism.

[EmptyDevil]

Let's stop asking for passives please. DE said they will start adding passives to all frames when they do something with the UI iirc and decide what to give all other frames. Right now WoF needs it's duration removed and/or damage amped up.

[Trowicia]

Let's stop asking for passives please. DE said they will start adding passives to all frames when they do something with the UI iirc and decide what to give all other frames. Right now WoF needs it's duration removed and/or damage amped up.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the current WoF damage if the duration gets removed. While enemies are slowly being cooked from the inside out I can use that time to slap some Accelerant on them and then drain some Corrosive + Fire dmg bullets in their faces. But yeah, like you said, it's either one or the other, or even both but I feel that may be me asking for a bit too much. Hah :P

[Harrycan]

I would like to suggest a different duration work on Ember's WoF, instead limit duration, why not the duration between each blast ? In reverse way, the higher her duration, the shorter time between each blast.

[MrNonApplicable]

I would like to suggest a different duration work on Ember's WoF, instead limit duration, why not the duration between each blast ? In reverse way, the higher her duration, the shorter time between each blast.

Seems sensible, discourages the "stick fleeting on everything!!!" trend. So less spamming is better for WoF depending on your point of view, which makes for happy devs.

[ZxpferTH]

I don't really understand about toggle skill logic in WF

 

toggle skill should has no duration as long as you have energy u should be use it all long until energy depleted or deactivate

 

mesa peacemaker are true toggle ability not like this , also mirage prism too

[EmptyDevil]

I would say Mirage's Prism has a timer because the ult has a 2nd effect of blinding with a lot of range when the ability ends. So toggle + duration makes a lot of sense on it. Ember's WoF has no ending effect, no final umph to justify the duration anymore. WoF should have the timer removed or get a powerful end effect like a large explosion erupting from her that does blast proc and finisher damage.

[Azawarau]

I still can't decide between going with the popular corrosive/viral or have a fire Dread (guaranteed to oneshot Phorid at least) and corrosive on high-status secondary like Stug, so that leaves my melee slot always modded with fire. And to be frank I've always found melee in Warframe to be a bit...wonky. With the speed and stamina buff, though, I should really give that fire Orthos Prime a shot at being my main. 

Always go with fire

 

Its more than worth it

 

Corrosive fire for grineer and magnetic for corpus

 

Either corrosive or viral fire for corrupted

 

One thing ive noticed is the old corrosive cold is the best for corrupted thing is a lie for melee

 

You can get much farther with gas electric surprisingly

 

The stun is not to be taken lightly

[Ryjeon]

I played a bit with my low-duration WoF with the recent hotfix changes and it plays better than it did before 15.11. The faster cast time and extra blasts on the first tick makes it more satisfying to cast frequently. It's pretty nice for cleaning up, or for adding a little flair to my attacks. So I think I will use it more than before. I still think it feels bit lackluster for what we want an ultimate to be. The higher burn proc rate on hit is nice. 

 

But I think it needs a little something more. It needs either a higher base duration or an extra effect like a defensive buff (%damage reduction, or increased armor, or crowd control resistance, or heal over time after taking damage). Or maybe something risky like short-ranged burning aura with increased range and damage per percentage of health missing from Ember.

[RealPandemonium]

If you look back, the old ember is much less clunky. Oh there is a pool of enemies ahead. I'll just turn wof on before i go in. Basically i leave wof to do its job on its own for the next 20 seconds. I fire and forget. I instead get to focus on where to parkour next to throw accelerant, fireballs and shoot. Ive left the zone where enemies are and wof is still exploding? So be it! Ive paid for its cast and i let it run its full course, wasted or not!

Realistically, a 20 second Accelerant means that you were not at max efficiency or had Narrow Minded equipped which would make your abilities too expensive and unable to do their job.  30m Accelerant for 12 energy is what allows Ember to shine.  WoF's incompatibility with that is the problem.  The recent changes helped a little by making shorter WoFs more useful but it's not as fluid as a true toggle would be in terms of choice.

 

But I think it needs a little something more. It needs either a higher base duration or an extra effect like a defensive buff (%damage reduction, or increased armor, or crowd control resistance, or heal over time after taking damage). 

It's already amazing on defense now; enemies just burn, taking more damage than they used to and getting stuck in the flailing animation.  Ember is almost as mindless as THE BEST BUILD frames now because of it.  

Edited January 23, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Xtenz]

Realistically, a 20 second Accelerant means that you were not at max efficiency or had Narrow Minded equipped which would make your abilities too expensive and unable to do their job.  30m Accelerant for 12 energy is what allows Ember to shine.  WoF's incompatibility with that is the problem.  The recent changes helped a little by making shorter WoFs more useful but it's not as fluid as a true toggle would be in terms of choice.

 

This pretty much says it all .. 

 

Cmon now DE , do it !!

[RealPandemonium]

We just need the option of longer WoF if we want it and for Fire Blast to be fixed as per my suggestion in this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/389108-fire-blast-flame-wave-knocks-enemies-out-of-the-ring/.  Then Ember will have no hitches as well as potentially being EZmode (which I'm not thrilled about but w/e) for the afkframe players.

Edited January 23, 2015 by RealPandemonium