quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I come back to the forums after 2 weeks of not playing warframe or doing more than glancing at the forums. I see "ember change megathread" and my brains freezes with excitement. I knew today was humpday but is it finally the day that the worst frame in the game, and my absolute favorite, gets the rework job that oberon got but even better because ember was worse off? I skip straight to it in the patch notes. I look for the rest of it. There isn't any. They buffed her armor... barely. Her stamina and movespeed... okay? They added a tiny something to fire blast... why? They debatably nerfed WoF... I haven't play tested anything yet but it's all spelled out clearly enough on paper that I can't imagine that I'm not understanding exactly what these changes mean. I'm sitting here feeling like a teen girl. I literally can't even. I'm stumped. Should I complain? Did I miss something? Is that it? Is this the point of breaking where I finally just lose it? I feel like I should go out in a blaze of glory on the biggest troll-hate-spam crusade I can muster but I'm just so damn confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-FV-Metheria Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Deal with it, Oberon shall always be the god of modesty, with Ember the queen of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungpaobeef Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Well, at least there's wyrminus. Ember's armor was increased by 6x or something. That gives a little something of a bonus. Not that bad, higher armor values than rhino. Edited January 22, 2015 by Kungpaobeef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Obligatory first post instant troll response. Check. Ignored for being a garbage post. Check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartiel Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Because when DE buffed a frame usually a "OMG too OP, pls nerf" thread will show up, so it looks like DE decided to buff her step by step and see how we react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Well, at least there's wyrminus. Ember's armor was increased by 6x or something. That gives a little something of a bonus. Not that bad, higher armor values than rhino. Ember had 50 armor from the armor buff I thought and you need to fact check that second part bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixty5 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Honestly I really like Ember now. The changes to her 3 make it amazing, and the increased cast speed on her 4 helps alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I'm not defending the WoF changes, but they were only a nerf for people who tried to run it all day. Using it as a burst attack it still works great and the toggle made it better all around. Most importantly, it now casts very quickly and that's what held it back the most for me in the past, as someone who used it as an ult rather than trying to run it all day. I hope they adjust it further but in the meantime I suggest you try out.. Vitality / Steel Fiber / Equilibrium / X Stretch / Transient Fortitude / Streamline / Flow I found this very effective even in T4 non-endless, though you have to play aggressively and use Accelerant. I swapped to Blind Rage and added Continuity for X later doing endless stuff but didn't really feel like I was doing much better, but I was out of power a lot so I went back to the above. Probably save the last slot for an aug and just run Thief's Wit or something for now. Don't want to get too used to anything like QT or NT and then have a good aug come out. Edited January 22, 2015 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Because when DE buffed a frame usually a "OMG too OP, pls nerf" thread will show up, so it looks like DE decided to buff her step by step and see how we react. can you confirm that because the way I'm considering reacting will make all the nerf-herders who have ever graced these forums, ever, look ta me by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm not defending the WoF changes, but they were only a nerf for people who tried to run it all day. Using it as a burst attack it still works great and the toggle made it better all around. Most importantly, it now casts very quickly and that's what held it back the most for me in the past, as someone who used it as an ult rather than trying to run it all day. I hope they adjust it further but in the meantime I suggest you try out.. Vitality / Steel Fiber / Equilibrium / X Stretch / Transient Fortitude / Streamline / Flow I found this very effective even in T4 non-endless, though you have to play aggressively. I swapped to Blind Rage and added Continuity for X later but didn't really feel like I was doing much better, but I was out of power a lot so I went back to the above. Probably save the last slot for an aug and just run Thief's Wit or something for now. Don't want to get too used to anything like QT or NT. Okay I clearly don't understand something. If you burst it that should be the absolute most inefficient thing you could possibly do. Spend 50 energy for the initial cast and get 1 second of use. That's what you mean right? Is he wrong or am I just so angry I can't even math properly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartiel Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 can you confirm that because the way I'm considering reacting will make all the nerf-herders who have ever graced these forums, ever, look ta me by comparison. Sorry, i mean buffing up in general, especially mob. people only rage when frames are nerfed not buffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cipherid Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ember had 50 armor from the armor buff I thought and you need to fact check that second part bud. Ember only had 15 armor prior to that little buff. She now has 100 (E Prime has 125), that's an increase by 85 for regular Ember and... *can't maths* 110 for E Prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watlok Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) If you use it for 10s or less every ~30s (well every 10s * your old increased duration) then it costs the same or less. If you use it longer or more often it costs more. The worst part is it still has a 10s base duration, just like before, so you still need to run duration mods if you want anything near power efficiency. But any duration past 10s is going to cost you more energy. Get wrecked. Edited January 22, 2015 by Watlok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Okay I clearly don't understand something. If you burst it that should be the absolute most inefficient thing you could possibly do. Spend 50 energy for the initial cast and get 1 second of use. That's what you mean right? Is he wrong or am I just so angry I can't even math properly... With that build IIRC my duration was 7sec, which is plenty to start it behind cover, jump out and hit accelerant, shoot two heavies dead and let WoF wipe the rest of the room. EDIT-- Just hopped into a solo Mercury, Terminus. 7.4sec. EDIT-- Starting at 426 power. WoF leaves me at 359 at the end of a full duration (7.4) with my build. Accelerant puts me at 325 for 101power to do the combo. Edited January 22, 2015 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry, i mean buffing up in general, especially mob. people only rage when frames are nerfed not buffed. I rage when they waste the time of thousands of ember fans and hundreds of discussions which people have debated individually for hundreds of hours each, and then give the worst frame in the game, the one that is worst because of there nerfing, and give her runspeed. I'm not complaining about it if there is more coming. If that's it though then complaining isn't the right word for what I will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishki88 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Come on GM....think alil Since the game came out you know the 5-6 updates prior to a MAJOR update can be considered "pieces of the pie" wtf are you really expecting them to release prior to the major update? 50% of the major update now and the rest later? GM pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 If you use it for 10s or less every ~30s then it costs the same or less. If you use it longer or more often it costs more. Okay so what you mean is. Nobody here understands proportional cost when ending it early. And when using it longer aka adding duration mods it costs more. Let's say I double the duration right. So initial cost is 50 and then 50 more at base duration. Then doubled duration is still 50 in intial plus 50 for the base duration plus 50 more for the extra duration. 150 cost for double duration where as doing so before would give 2x the duration for the same cost of 100. So we agree on the math then? So they nerfed it? I'm not defending the WoF changes, but they were only a nerf for people who tried to run it all day. Using it as a burst attack it still works great and the toggle made it better all around. Most importantly, it now casts very quickly and that's what held it back the most for me in the past, as someone who used it as an ult rather than trying to run it all day. I hope they adjust it further but in the meantime I suggest you try out.. Vitality / Steel Fiber / Equilibrium / X Stretch / Transient Fortitude / Streamline / Flow I found this very effective even in T4 non-endless, though you have to play aggressively and use Accelerant. I swapped to Blind Rage and added Continuity for X later doing endless stuff but didn't really feel like I was doing much better, but I was out of power a lot so I went back to the above. Probably save the last slot for an aug and just run Thief's Wit or something for now. Don't want to get too used to anything like QT or NT and then have a good aug come out. You want me to use a tank build and a negative duration, low(as in not using both mods, not as in low in energy cost) energy efficiency, and barely any power strength... with flow. You don't understand how much I dispize people who use flow without using qt. I don't know if you play tested this build only on mercury since you mentioned testing on mercury, and not because I'm jumping to insulting conclussions, but if I use a ult that only does damage and also use a ablity that only increases damage, with the weakest stun in the game and still have to shoot anything... then you may have missed the point of what is good and what is not good anyway. If that's the situation that happened.... and you where talking about mercury.... then you should stop having opinions probably. If you meant that's what happened in the T4 however then it's decent but that doesn't meet with what I thought would happen and I have to test it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcanary Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Nothing has ever been released in pieces like this when a rework is promised. That's why I ask because this is very unusual and I haven't seen any confirmation that is what is happening. I can't use logic because the pattern that this update implys is not logical. If they stated somewhere "here's a piece of how awesome we are planning to make this update to hold you over" then let me know otherwise I'm going to assume this is their idea of a "rework"... but I can't think that either because it just can't be the rework... DE cannot make that big of a mistake, or be insulting my intelligence that much. Meant to Qoute the guy calling me GM over and over... but Qoute is broke for me for some reason (again, though it was working) Edited January 22, 2015 by quietcanary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watlok Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Okay so what you mean is. Nobody here understands proportional cost when ending it early. And when using it longer aka adding duration mods it costs more. Let's say I double the duration right. So initial cost is 50 and then 50 more at base duration. Then doubled duration is still 50 in intial plus 50 for the base duration plus 50 more for the extra duration. 150 cost for double duration where as doing so before would give 2x the duration for the same cost of 100. So we agree on the math then? So they nerfed it? They nerfed it fairly significantly, yes, that was the entire point of my post. No one is going to pop on WoF for <10s once every 30s. That's an extremely impractical use case, and it's the only one it was ever so slightly buffed for. Edited January 22, 2015 by Watlok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The thing is Ember is arguably the worse frame out there and didn't deserve a single nerf. The buffs although nice only differs that she won't die that quik. What Ember needs is utility, utility and utility. Accelerant is currently all she has. Edited January 22, 2015 by kubbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I just logged in to try WoF. lol seriously? Previously I could cast it for 30 seconds, now I can barely keep it up for 10 AND it drains my energy to 0. What the hell happened? Why is there a duration on it if it consumes energy in the first place? Jesus christ she got nerfed hard. For 10 seconds it costs over 120 energy to cast, before the patch it was 150 energy for 30 seconds. :I Edited January 22, 2015 by Qynchou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) How does bursting work at 50 energy per burst? One second of WoF already costs 55 energy. Two casts of Fireball in 1 second cost 50 energy. WoF does an average of 3.25 explosions per second, 400 fire damage each explosion with 1 second casting time. That's an average of 1300 fire damage divided among 3.25 targets in one second. That is lame for an ult. Fireball costs 25 energy per cast, 0.5 sec delay between each cast, 400 fire damage plus 150 fire damage AoE. That's 1100 fire damage with 100% proc for one target in 1 second, plus 300 fire damage and 50% for other targets in the AoE. It's cheaper for virtually the same damage and it's targetable. This is how WoF consumes energy: 50 energy + 10 * (1 + duration_bonus) seconds * 5 energy / second. That means that as long as it consumes energy per second, instead of energy per cast, we are paying extra energy for duration mods. It's. A. Nerf. A nerf to an already lame ult. Ember is even more obsolete than ever now. Edited January 22, 2015 by ThePresident777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyLoneZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Because when DE buffed a frame usually a "OMG too OP, pls nerf" thread will show up, so it looks like DE decided to buff her step by step and see how we react. I would agree with you if only this latest patch contain an overall buff for ember. But all I see is nerf, nerf, and nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_of_Psi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Should I complain? Did I miss something? Is that it? Is this the point of breaking where I finally just lose it? I feel like I should go out in a blaze of glory on the biggest troll-hate-spam crusade I can muster but I'm just so damn confused. Yes, my boy, let the rage flow trough you, let the hate consume you!. Embrace THE DARKNESS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SancticuS Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Not that bad, higher armor values than rhino. What???? Last time I checked 190 armor is higher than 100/125 armor, but hey that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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